All that nonsense before the Olympics about Laurel Hubbard and surprise surprise, she doesn't have much of an advantage.
Of course she has an advantage due to being male, it's just that as sports scientist Ross Tucker points out on twitter:
Folks, you can't measure the presence of an advantage by whether someone wins or not. It has to be measured relative to self. The final performance is the SUM of base level PLUS advantage. So looking only at the final says nothing about the presence of absence of an advantage.
In this case, her male advantage is outweighed by the disadvantages of her age, and her technique and weight selection tactics being a bit ropey. If you compare her lifts with those of women of a similar age in recent years (in the Masters category because performance tends to peak in the late 20s for weightlifters) she's a massive outlier. But slap bang in the middle of the male performance levels for Masters lifters.
Charlton are at home to Man C in the cup, so Charlton have an advantage known as home advantage. According to the logic of a couple of people if Charlton don't win there was no advantage. It's hard to understand how some people's brains don't work.
So the two Namibian athletes were ruled out of the 400m cos they have too much testosterone but are allowed to go in the 200m. What’s that all about?
Very strange rules.
CAPE TOWN, South Africa -- Two 18-year-old female runners from Namibia won't be allowed to run in the 400 meters at the Tokyo Olympics after medical tests showed they have high natural testosterone levels.
That makes them ineligible under the same contentious rules that have sidelined South Africa's Caster Semenya.
The Namibian Olympic committee said Friday that the two runners, Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi, had been withdrawn from the 400.
They will now "focus their full attention" on the 200 meters, Namibia's athletics federation said.
World Athletics' testosterone rules only apply to events between 400 meters and one mile.
Read an article today which implied the IOC will change their rules, but also described how a single value for testosterone wouldn’t be appropriate for all sports. The IOC wants each sport to set their own rules rather than just use their default.
It used athletics as an example, stating that testosterone has less impact for longer distances ( which surprised me) and haemoglobin was more important to test for.
Suffice to say, the science has moved on, the IOC will lower the testosterone level, but each sport should be setting their own standards.
Ha, SELR & Kent would expect a 90 year old bloke to outlift an 18 year old female of similar weight, beCauSe hE HaS an aDVanTAge.
Bit childish.
Female weightlifting in the Olympics wasn't a sport until the year 2000. So we have no idea how good Olympic level women can be into later age because they don't exist yet.
The male winner of the Olympics this year is 37, so weightlifters don't have to peak in their late 20s.
Have a feeling Laurel Hubbard's extended time off in her period of transition has probably extended her career due to lack of injury + wear and tear.
While we're on the subject of weightlifting, Emily Campbell's silver was our first women's Olympic weightlifting medal ever, and the first for either sex since 1984. Given that most of the Eastern European nations were boycotting that year there's a good chance we'd not have got that one if everyone was there, so it's an even more impressive achievement.
So the two Namibian athletes were ruled out of the 400m cos they have too much testosterone but are allowed to go in the 200m. What’s that all about?
Very strange rules.
CAPE TOWN, South Africa -- Two 18-year-old female runners from Namibia won't be allowed to run in the 400 meters at the Tokyo Olympics after medical tests showed they have high natural testosterone levels.
That makes them ineligible under the same contentious rules that have sidelined South Africa's Caster Semenya.
The Namibian Olympic committee said Friday that the two runners, Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi, had been withdrawn from the 400.
They will now "focus their full attention" on the 200 meters, Namibia's athletics federation said.
World Athletics' testosterone rules only apply to events between 400 meters and one mile.
Read an article today which implied the IOC will change their rules, but also described how a single value for testosterone wouldn’t be appropriate for all sports. The IOC wants each sport to set their own rules rather than just use their default.
It used athletics as an example, stating that testosterone has less impact for longer distances ( which surprised me) and haemoglobin was more important to test for.
Suffice to say, the science has moved on, the IOC will lower the testosterone level, but each sport should be setting their own standards.
I would have thought it would matter in the 200m, possibly even more than the 400m, for several reasons. Plus various sprinters have been caught taking testosterone based banned substances. It's almost like the wording that it applies only between 400 metres to a mile was badly written
I'm glad Hubbard, Quinn, and Alana Smith have been able to compete in the bodies they feel most comfortable in. I'm also delighted to see the high jump gold shared by two guys who helped each other back through pretty horrific injuries, opting to celebrate with each other, and who are really good friends, both being the best in this Games.
For me, the Olympics is a massive celebration of sport. Faster, stronger, higher - yes. But we have opening ceremonies and parades that are a huge party for everyone, and while winning is so, so important, for many it's the journey that counts, whatever form it takes.
Call me soft if you like, but... it's about more than the medals, isn't it?
I'm glad Hubbard, Quinn, and Alana Smith have been able to compete in the bodies they feel most comfortable in. I'm also delighted to see the high jump gold shared by two guys who helped each other back through pretty horrific injuries, opting to celebrate with each other, and who are really good friends, both being the best in this Games.
For me, the Olympics is a massive celebration of sport. Faster, stronger, higher - yes. But we have opening ceremonies and parades that are a huge party for everyone, and while winning is so, so important, for many it's the journey that counts, whatever form it takes.
Call me soft if you like, but... it's about more than the medals, isn't it?
Watching the football and the woman are doing that hitching the shorts up thing as well, is there a reason for it, or is it just a highly contagious tic?
So the two Namibian athletes were ruled out of the 400m cos they have too much testosterone but are allowed to go in the 200m. What’s that all about?
Very strange rules.
CAPE TOWN, South Africa -- Two 18-year-old female runners from Namibia won't be allowed to run in the 400 meters at the Tokyo Olympics after medical tests showed they have high natural testosterone levels.
That makes them ineligible under the same contentious rules that have sidelined South Africa's Caster Semenya.
The Namibian Olympic committee said Friday that the two runners, Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi, had been withdrawn from the 400.
They will now "focus their full attention" on the 200 meters, Namibia's athletics federation said.
World Athletics' testosterone rules only apply to events between 400 meters and one mile.
Read an article today which implied the IOC will change their rules, but also described how a single value for testosterone wouldn’t be appropriate for all sports. The IOC wants each sport to set their own rules rather than just use their default.
It used athletics as an example, stating that testosterone has less impact for longer distances ( which surprised me) and haemoglobin was more important to test for.
Suffice to say, the science has moved on, the IOC will lower the testosterone level, but each sport should be setting their own standards.
I would have thought it would matter in the 200m, possibly even more than the 400m, for several reasons. Plus various sprinters have been caught taking testosterone based banned substances. It's almost like the wording that it applies only between 400 metres to a mile was badly written
I must admit I’m confused by the statements I read, but now I can’t find the article. I can’t imagine how it’s OK to race the 200 but not the 400.
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
So basically the IOC are trying to get out of making any decision themselves and putting it on hosts instead.
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
So basically the IOC are trying to get out of making any decision themselves and putting it on hosts instead.
My understanding is because the advantage varies from sport to sport (as I suggested before)
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
So basically the IOC are trying to get out of making any decision themselves and putting it on hosts instead.
Nothing to do with hosts. They’re saying the IAAF needs to set the rules for athletics, UCI needs to set the rules for cycling, etc.
The advantages, if any, will be based on the sport they participate in.
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
So basically the IOC are trying to get out of making any decision themselves and putting it on hosts instead.
Nothing to do with hosts. They’re saying the IAAF needs to set the rules for athletics, UCI needs to set the rules for cycling, etc.
The advantages, if any, will be based on the sport they participate in.
I can't think if an Olympics sport where it is not an advantage to be born with the muscular structure of a man, can you?
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
So basically the IOC are trying to get out of making any decision themselves and putting it on hosts instead.
Nothing to do with hosts. They’re saying the IAAF needs to set the rules for athletics, UCI needs to set the rules for cycling, etc.
The advantages, if any, will be based on the sport they participate in.
I can't think if an Olympics sport where it is not an advantage to be born with the muscular structure of a man, can you?
Equestrian makes no obvious difference, and I’m not sure what advantage it gives in shooting or archery. The real point is that different sports can set different criteria for admission to competition based on levels of testosterone or any other substance that makes sense for that specific sport.
There was some interesting reading out there, implying that testosterone isn’t necessarily a predictor of anything, that it’s more complex than that. Testing on athletes has shown no direct correlation to how they perform - higher values don’t mean better performance.
Interesting stuff, but outside my areas of expertise.
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
So basically the IOC are trying to get out of making any decision themselves and putting it on hosts instead.
Nothing to do with hosts. They’re saying the IAAF needs to set the rules for athletics, UCI needs to set the rules for cycling, etc.
The advantages, if any, will be based on the sport they participate in.
I can't think if an Olympics sport where it is not an advantage to be born with the muscular structure of a man, can you?
Equestrian makes no obvious difference, and I’m not sure what advantage it gives in shooting or archery. The real point is that different sports can set different criteria for admission to competition based on levels of testosterone or any other substance that makes sense for that specific sport.
There was some interesting reading out there, implying that testosterone isn’t necessarily a predictor of anything, that it’s more complex than that. Testing on athletes has shown no direct correlation to how they perform - higher values don’t mean better performance.
Interesting stuff, but outside my areas of expertise.
This is the internet mate, no expertise means you argue harder!
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
So basically the IOC are trying to get out of making any decision themselves and putting it on hosts instead.
Nothing to do with hosts. They’re saying the IAAF needs to set the rules for athletics, UCI needs to set the rules for cycling, etc.
The advantages, if any, will be based on the sport they participate in.
I can't think if an Olympics sport where it is not an advantage to be born with the muscular structure of a man, can you?
Equestrian makes no obvious difference, and I’m not sure what advantage it gives in shooting or archery. The real point is that different sports can set different criteria for admission to competition based on levels of testosterone or any other substance that makes sense for that specific sport.
There was some interesting reading out there, implying that testosterone isn’t necessarily a predictor of anything, that it’s more complex than that. Testing on athletes has shown no direct correlation to how they perform - higher values don’t mean better performance.
Interesting stuff, but outside my areas of expertise.
This is the internet mate, no expertise means you argue harder!
Olympic rules for letting transgender women compete will be changed after Tokyo say officials say, as Laurel Hubbard's weightlifting defeat sparks fresh rows over whether it was fair for her to enter IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
So basically the IOC are trying to get out of making any decision themselves and putting it on hosts instead.
Nothing to do with hosts. They’re saying the IAAF needs to set the rules for athletics, UCI needs to set the rules for cycling, etc.
The advantages, if any, will be based on the sport they participate in.
I can't think if an Olympics sport where it is not an advantage to be born with the muscular structure of a man, can you?
Equestrian makes no obvious difference, and I’m not sure what advantage it gives in shooting or archery. The real point is that different sports can set different criteria for admission to competition based on levels of testosterone or any other substance that makes sense for that specific sport.
There was some interesting reading out there, implying that testosterone isn’t necessarily a predictor of anything, that it’s more complex than that. Testing on athletes has shown no direct correlation to how they perform - higher values don’t mean better performance.
Interesting stuff, but outside my areas of expertise.
I participated in archery for many years and apart from the shorter distances indoors, men and women compete with targets at different distances. The maximum distance for men is 100yds/90 metres and for women it is 80yds/70metres. The draw weight for men is greater than for women and so the arrows can go further.
This applies more to recurve bows which have a greater draw weight and more poundage on the fingers. Compound bows have a pulley system which means there is less weight on the fingers and there is a release mechanism.
Comments
Folks, you can't measure the presence of an advantage by whether someone wins or not. It has to be measured relative to self. The final performance is the SUM of base level PLUS advantage. So looking only at the final says nothing about the presence of absence of an advantage.
Female weightlifting in the Olympics wasn't a sport until the year 2000. So we have no idea how good Olympic level women can be into later age because they don't exist yet.
The male winner of the Olympics this year is 37, so weightlifters don't have to peak in their late 20s.
Have a feeling Laurel Hubbard's extended time off in her period of transition has probably extended her career due to lack of injury + wear and tear.
For me, the Olympics is a massive celebration of sport. Faster, stronger, higher - yes. But we have opening ceremonies and parades that are a huge party for everyone, and while winning is so, so important, for many it's the journey that counts, whatever form it takes.
Call me soft if you like, but... it's about more than the medals, isn't it?
IOC say current guidelines, set in 2015, are not fit for purpose and need refresh
It is expected there will be a push towards each sporting federation setting rules
The advantages, if any, will be based on the sport they participate in.
This applies more to recurve bows which have a greater draw weight and more poundage on the fingers. Compound bows have a pulley system which means there is less weight on the fingers and there is a release mechanism.