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Petrol Supply Problems

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  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,642
    SporadicAddick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    So there are shortages of HGV drivers in France, Germany, Italy and Holland. The U.K. even having relaxed visa restrictions in order to satisfy our shortage will be competing with all these nations for those highly sought after Eastern European drivers. Where will I wonder be most attractive to them. The EU where they have exactly the same workers rights and protections as in their homes in Poland. The same health protections and benefits or go to the U.K. which has effectively just told them to do one. If it wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious. Personally I blame the foreign drivers for being foreign.
    Itinerant workers will go to wherever earning potential is the greatest. I'm not aware that in the post Brexit world workers rights and protections have been diluted. I'd suggest that those EU workers that were based in the UK before returning home during the pandemic would be more than happy to return to the UK if it was financially beneficial to do so and if the UK deems it appropriate to change its entry rules. If German / French / Italian wages are better then they will work there. This is the market in action. If ultimately we reduce reliance on "cheap" labour, then surely society as a whole benefits? Another benefit of Brexit in action.
    Workers rights for an itinerant worker in the U.K. would be the same as for you and I. Where the problem starts to build is entitlement and access to health care and benefits. A scenario. A lorry driver from Poland jumps out of his cab and hurts his back in Germany. As an eu citizen he’s entitled to the same benefits as his German counterpart. In the U.K. the driver hurts his back and unless he or his firm have taken out health insurance he’s entitled to zip in terms of treatment (unless he pays) and no benefits while he is off work. It’s really not as simple as getting someone into the country and telling them to get into the cab. Given a choice where would Polish Pete choose to work ? Germany or The U.K.
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,991
    In the end we managed to get to the one on Belmont Road but there was a queue. Waited about 10 mins and was about 5 cars back and the petrol gauge said 1 mile. Missus jumped out with a couple of Jerry cans to run down and fill up so we wouldn’t break down, but she must have looked like a panic buyer. No doubt her boat will be on the daily mail tomorrow and we will have our house egged. Fucking country.
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,877
    Hold on, why are the environmentalists on here moaning about lack of lorry drivers? Isnt this what they want ? Fewer vehicles on the road ? 


  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,883
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    SporadicAddick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    So there are shortages of HGV drivers in France, Germany, Italy and Holland. The U.K. even having relaxed visa restrictions in order to satisfy our shortage will be competing with all these nations for those highly sought after Eastern European drivers. Where will I wonder be most attractive to them. The EU where they have exactly the same workers rights and protections as in their homes in Poland. The same health protections and benefits or go to the U.K. which has effectively just told them to do one. If it wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious. Personally I blame the foreign drivers for being foreign.
    Itinerant workers will go to wherever earning potential is the greatest. I'm not aware that in the post Brexit world workers rights and protections have been diluted. I'd suggest that those EU workers that were based in the UK before returning home during the pandemic would be more than happy to return to the UK if it was financially beneficial to do so and if the UK deems it appropriate to change its entry rules. If German / French / Italian wages are better then they will work there. This is the market in action. If ultimately we reduce reliance on "cheap" labour, then surely society as a whole benefits? Another benefit of Brexit in action.
    Workers rights for an itinerant worker in the U.K. would be the same as for you and I. Where the problem starts to build is entitlement and access to health care and benefits. A scenario. A lorry driver from Poland jumps out of his cab and hurts his back in Germany. As an eu citizen he’s entitled to the same benefits as his German counterpart. In the U.K. the driver hurts his back and unless he or his firm have taken out health insurance he’s entitled to zip in terms of treatment (unless he pays) and no benefits while he is off work. It’s really not as simple as getting someone into the country and telling them to get into the cab. Given a choice where would Polish Pete choose to work ? Germany or The U.K.
    According to wikipedia, he's still playing for Pogon Szczecin in Poland on loan from Italian club Frosinone, so neither...
  • stop_shouting
    stop_shouting Posts: 3,680
    Gribbo said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Gribbo said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    So there are shortages of HGV drivers in France, Germany, Italy and Holland. The U.K. even having relaxed visa restrictions in order to satisfy our shortage will be competing with all these nations for those highly sought after Eastern European drivers. Where will I wonder be most attractive to them. The EU where they have exactly the same workers rights and protections as in their homes in Poland. The same health protections and benefits or go to the U.K. which has effectively just told them to do one. If it wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious. Personally I blame the foreign drivers for being foreign.
    lol If you want to spin it that way, feel free mate. I'm just pointing out that, even if this "petrol shortage" is down to a lack of drivers,the problem seems to be Worldwide, let alone Europewide. (although, apparently there isn't a petrol shortage at all,  it's just people emptying pumps because they're panic buying the selfish c****). 
    Not sure why you think my post funny. What part particularly made you laugh. I would say I’m 100% accurate?

    Because you’ve gone off on a crazy ol tangent when all I was doing was pointing out that any HGV driver shortages in the UK seem to be reflected throughout Europe, so it doesn’t look like it has anything to do with Brexit. I’ve also said that there a noticeable signs  of distribution problems on the shelves in supermarkets here which, to me, also suggests the problem is not Brexit related.

    Get used to it mate. He politicises everything.
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,656
    Just wondering what the protesters are going to be up to on Monday, if no one can drive anywhere!
  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,505
    Anyone else got problems getting hold of petrol or diesel let me know as my mate Jerry can
  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,883
    edited September 2021
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    SporadicAddick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    So there are shortages of HGV drivers in France, Germany, Italy and Holland. The U.K. even having relaxed visa restrictions in order to satisfy our shortage will be competing with all these nations for those highly sought after Eastern European drivers. Where will I wonder be most attractive to them. The EU where they have exactly the same workers rights and protections as in their homes in Poland. The same health protections and benefits or go to the U.K. which has effectively just told them to do one. If it wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious. Personally I blame the foreign drivers for being foreign.
    Itinerant workers will go to wherever earning potential is the greatest. I'm not aware that in the post Brexit world workers rights and protections have been diluted. I'd suggest that those EU workers that were based in the UK before returning home during the pandemic would be more than happy to return to the UK if it was financially beneficial to do so and if the UK deems it appropriate to change its entry rules. If German / French / Italian wages are better then they will work there. This is the market in action. If ultimately we reduce reliance on "cheap" labour, then surely society as a whole benefits? Another benefit of Brexit in action.
    Workers rights for an itinerant worker in the U.K. would be the same as for you and I. Where the problem starts to build is entitlement and access to health care and benefits. A scenario. A lorry driver from Poland jumps out of his cab and hurts his back in Germany. As an eu citizen he’s entitled to the same benefits as his German counterpart. In the U.K. the driver hurts his back and unless he or his firm have taken out health insurance he’s entitled to zip in terms of treatment (unless he pays) and no benefits while he is off work. It’s really not as simple as getting someone into the country and telling them to get into the cab. Given a choice where would Polish Pete choose to work ? Germany or The U.K.
    My proper answer...

    You have prompted me to have a read through various UK Gov and citizens advice sites. From what I can see, if an EU citizen is injured in the UK whilst working, they would be able to receive treatment without charge - relevant in the context of the Govt. reviewing worker status within context of operating under a formal work visa.

    ...If I've read this correctly, then it still comes back to market forces - they will go to where they get the best return on their labour.

    Getting healthcare if you’re from the EU, EEA or Switzerland

    You might be able to get other NHS treatment for free, depending on your immigration status. This includes getting ‘secondary healthcare’ from a hospital for something that isn’t an emergency - for example, an operation to replace your hip or visits from a midwife.

    If you're an Irish citizen you can get free NHS healthcare when you start living in the UK.

    The EEA includes EU countries and Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein.

    Check if you can get free secondary healthcare

    You need to be ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK. This means you’re living in the UK legally and you’re not a visitor - you might be asked to prove this.

    You’ll also need to have one of the following:

    • British citizenship - for example, if you have dual nationality
    • indefinite leave to remain
    • ‘settled’ or ‘pre-settled status’ from the EU Settlement Scheme
    • applied for settled or pre-settled status before 30 June 2021 and are waiting for a decision - you’ll need to show your application certificate
    • limited leave to remain - for example, you arrived in the UK after 31 December 2020 on a work visa
    • been trafficked - your family can also get free secondary healthcare

    If you're not ordinarily resident in the UK, you might be charged for NHS services.

  • Swisdom
    Swisdom Posts: 14,977
    13 petrol stations within about 10 miles of me and all are sold out of diesel.  Only 1 has petrol but good old Mr Patel has bumped his price up to £1.48.9 per litre.  12p a litre more than anywhere else 

    this country really is idiotic sometimes.  Both my cars are good for a fair few days but by Tuesday or Wednesday it’ll be a bit squeaky-bum time
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,877
    Drove from Romford way to Scout camp in Chelmsford and back tonight. Apart from queues outside one BP garage there seemed to be normal usage at all the other garages we passed. 

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  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,642
    edited September 2021
    stop_shouting said:
    Gribbo said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Gribbo said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    So there are shortages of HGV drivers in France, Germany, Italy and Holland. The U.K. even having relaxed visa restrictions in order to satisfy our shortage will be competing with all these nations for those highly sought after Eastern European drivers. Where will I wonder be most attractive to them. The EU where they have exactly the same workers rights and protections as in their homes in Poland. The same health protections and benefits or go to the U.K. which has effectively just told them to do one. If it wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious. Personally I blame the foreign drivers for being foreign.
    lol If you want to spin it that way, feel free mate. I'm just pointing out that, even if this "petrol shortage" is down to a lack of drivers,the problem seems to be Worldwide, let alone Europewide. (although, apparently there isn't a petrol shortage at all,  it's just people emptying pumps because they're panic buying the selfish c****). 
    Not sure why you think my post funny. What part particularly made you laugh. I would say I’m 100% accurate?

    Because you’ve gone off on a crazy ol tangent when all I was doing was pointing out that any HGV driver shortages in the UK seem to be reflected throughout Europe, so it doesn’t look like it has anything to do with Brexit. I’ve also said that there a noticeable signs  of distribution problems on the shelves in supermarkets here which, to me, also suggests the problem is not Brexit related.

    Get used to it mate. He politicises everything.
    If you can’t see that politics is front and centre in the driver shortage and practically every other shortage we’re experiencing then you really need to face up to the facts. You can’t keep your head in the sand indefinitely as much as you and the others who can’t see we’ve made a problem for ourselves. 
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,261
    I'm HGV positive through work and there is no was I'd go lorry driving as a job. Standard of driving has fallen off a cliff as proven by the amount of arguments I have with people about lane discipline. The accountability on HGV drivers is massive, even if some cocksucker pulls in front of you and slams their brakes on and get flattened by you as brakes on a 30 tonne vehicle are a lot less responsive than those on a fiat 500 you are blamed immediately. If you do long distance thats all about sleeping in laybys and showering in truly shite service stations 

    No way and all for wages I could get as a site labourer these days forget it 




  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,642
    Carter said:
    I'm HGV positive through work and there is no was I'd go lorry driving as a job. Standard of driving has fallen off a cliff as proven by the amount of arguments I have with people about lane discipline. The accountability on HGV drivers is massive, even if some cocksucker pulls in front of you and slams their brakes on and get flattened by you as brakes on a 30 tonne vehicle are a lot less responsive than those on a fiat 500 you are blamed immediately. If you do long distance thats all about sleeping in laybys and showering in truly shite service stations 

    No way and all for wages I could get as a site labourer these days forget it 




    Not a pretty picture.
  • Super_Eddie_Youds
    Super_Eddie_Youds Posts: 1,977
    edited September 2021
    https://twitter.com/thelorryist/status/1439361631872602112?s=21 

    This might be of interest, doesn’t speak to the fuel problems but really interesting day in the life of thread. 
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,614
    edited September 2021
    Carter said:
    I'm HGV positive through work and there is no was I'd go lorry driving as a job. Standard of driving has fallen off a cliff as proven by the amount of arguments I have with people about lane discipline. The accountability on HGV drivers is massive, even if some cocksucker pulls in front of you and slams their brakes on and get flattened by you as brakes on a 30 tonne vehicle are a lot less responsive than those on a fiat 500 you are blamed immediately. If you do long distance thats all about sleeping in laybys and showering in truly shite service stations 

    No way and all for wages I could get as a site labourer these days forget it 




    But think about the brasses mate
  • boggzy
    boggzy Posts: 3,596
    ValleyGary said:
    In the end we managed to get to the one on Belmont Road but there was a queue. Waited about 10 mins and was about 5 cars back and the petrol gauge said 1 mile. Missus jumped out with a couple of Jerry cans to run down and fill up so we wouldn’t break down, but she must have looked like a panic buyer. No doubt her boat will be on the daily mail tomorrow and we will have our house egged. Fucking country.
    Haha think I passed ya - about 2ish?
  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick Posts: 15,828
    Just nipped out as I was running very low, garage opposite Welling football ground shut as is the one up by Welling station, got in the one at bottom of shooters hill but some very irate people about now. Won’t be a garage open all weekend round here 
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,847
    Just seen @ValleyGary ‘s missus on the Daily Mail website 
  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    Well I've not got enough fuel to get to The Valley and back tomorrow. 
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,158
    edited September 2021
    Drove to work tonight and both garages in my village were open near Basingstoke....had cars in them and had some of the lanes closed to the pumps, but it looked like none of the pumps were locked off. If only people would be sensible there would be no issue.

    Told my relief this as he has a 100 mile round trip to and from work and he stated that this morning he took all 3 of his cars out and filled them up....what a selfish thing to do.

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  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    charltonkeston said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    SE10Addick said:
    Hal1x said:
    SE10Addick said:
    There is no shortage of HGV drivers in the UK.

    There is/was a severe lack of drivers willing to do an often horrible job for £10 per hour.

    I would be if true, but the average petrol tanker wage is £33,500, so if you were on £10 an hour it would be time to switch.
    Petrol (and hazardous goods) drivers have extra training.
    Petrol drivers are highly skilled aside from the physical driving. 
    Highly skilled? I suppose it depends how you define skilled. To earn a decent living a driver will have to work antisocial hours, work alone and be away from home and it’s comforts. I think crap job rather than highly skilled and as such should be well paid. 
    Its strange how jobs people do we took for granted have become skilled when a few years ago many would have regarded them as a step up from labouring and were content to pay them a pittance. 
    Have you ever worked in a PFS?  Or anything to do with one? 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,912
    If we're talking politics, the obsessions of politicians (especially Blair) that youngsters should get a degree instead of doing necessary work has also helped cause this problem. 

    There was something a bit odd that we brought in EU migrants to do essential jobs like building, plumbing or HGV driving, when so many of our own youngsters end up with degrees that equip them for nothing. Or leave school at 16 with nothing, and no career path into useful work
  • The_Organiser
    The_Organiser Posts: 3,999
    My petrol light is now on but on my childcare travels today every single one I passed had huge queues, so I didn’t even try. Hoping there are some overnight deliveries and I’ll pop out about 6am tomorrow when our 1 year old wakes us up.
  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    My missus is frantic. She's supposed to be picking up the son from Aberystwyth on Sunday after he's finished his MA. We've not seen him for over a year and he obviously has a ton of gear to bring home. 

    He has nowhere to stay or store his stuff from tomorrow night and even if she gets there, there is no guarantee they can get home from West Wales to Kent.
  • MattF
    MattF Posts: 3,797
    Blendon roundabout remains totally fucked in case anyone is heading in that direction in the immediate future
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,656
    Addickted said:
    Well I've not got enough fuel to get to The Valley and back tomorrow. 
    Same could be said of some of the players, they’ve not showed up all season!
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,656
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/23/autumn-2000-fuel-shortages-uk-standstill-price-protest-panic-buying

    Can’t believe the petrol strike was over 20 years ago!
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,258
    AFKABartram said:
    Just seen @ValleyGary ‘s missus on the Daily Mail website 
    There’s a quote in there from Viewfinder as well
  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    edited September 2021
    Addickted said:
    Over 50,000 HGV driving tests cancelled because of COVID over the past 18 months. Massive backlog of those desperate to complete their training, Govt reduces requirements for certain aspects to speed up more tests and more drivers and usual posters claim carnage on the road as a result.

    People screaming to relax the restrictions on allowing EU and overseas experienced HGV drivers coming over to assist in out "transport chaos", so they put proposals together within two weeks, but it's too little, too late and they've driven down the possible earnings of our own HGV drivers (like the construction industry) from the usual posters.

    Posters moaning about the '£10 an hour' earnings HGV drivers, with nothing to back it up - and then talking about a 56 hour a day with nothing to back it up. Not only from the usual posters but those that know full well that is a load of bollocks as they've contributed to the HoC thread where an HGV driver/Addick fan from the South West has provided exactly the correct answers as to earnings (he admits himself to having a 'massive' pay rise in recent weeks) along with his legal requirement as to the hours he's allowed to work.

    And to top it all, we have another usual poster moaning and groaning about queues at petrol stations solely caused by the Govt that his wife has seen today whilst she's out driving about in South London just to get some fuel - one minute Bromley, the next Eltham, with probably at least 20 petrol, stations in between. Panic buying at its worst.

    I tell a lie, the worst panic buying I've heard is my ex and her hubby, filling up both their cars and some extra Jerry cans today. They're off on a weeks holiday tomorrow - by coach.
    It's not too complicated. We've opted out of our closest markets, including labour/skills markets. This probably makes me a "usual poster" in your foetid imagination.
  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    SporadicAddick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    So there are shortages of HGV drivers in France, Germany, Italy and Holland. The U.K. even having relaxed visa restrictions in order to satisfy our shortage will be competing with all these nations for those highly sought after Eastern European drivers. Where will I wonder be most attractive to them. The EU where they have exactly the same workers rights and protections as in their homes in Poland. The same health protections and benefits or go to the U.K. which has effectively just told them to do one. If it wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious. Personally I blame the foreign drivers for being foreign.
    Itinerant workers will go to wherever earning potential is the greatest. I'm not aware that in the post Brexit world workers rights and protections have been diluted. I'd suggest that those EU workers that were based in the UK before returning home during the pandemic would be more than happy to return to the UK if it was financially beneficial to do so and if the UK deems it appropriate to change its entry rules. If German / French / Italian wages are better then they will work there. This is the market in action. If ultimately we reduce reliance on "cheap" labour, then surely society as a whole benefits? Another benefit of Brexit in action.
    Workers rights for an itinerant worker in the U.K. would be the same as for you and I. Where the problem starts to build is entitlement and access to health care and benefits. A scenario. A lorry driver from Poland jumps out of his cab and hurts his back in Germany. As an eu citizen he’s entitled to the same benefits as his German counterpart. In the U.K. the driver hurts his back and unless he or his firm have taken out health insurance he’s entitled to zip in terms of treatment (unless he pays) and no benefits while he is off work. It’s really not as simple as getting someone into the country and telling them to get into the cab. Given a choice where would Polish Pete choose to work ? Germany or The U.K.
    Fuck me has Polish Pete become a lorry driver? Hope he's better at that than playing football.
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