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Petrol Supply Problems
Comments
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Not sure what Arnar Vidarsson has got to do with the debate to be honest.ME14addick said:
The shortage of drivers isn't only for petrol. The boss of Iceland was on Question Time this week and said that Christmas is going to be difficult, so not only the media.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
It might help if the media stopped encouraging panic buying....ME14addick said:The temporary visa scheme is now only until Christmas Eve, so it will require a big financial incentive to attract EU drivers.1 -
Pointing out the truth is not scaremongering.valleynick66 said:
Scaremongering right there. Zero evidence that passports will be an issue or a faff.seth plum said:
Indeed. If drivers don’t have a passport they might indeed struggle to fill in the forms, get the photos sorted, get them verified, send them off, pay the fee, and await the arrival of said passports. And hope the passport arrives in time. There may also be extra bureaucratic demands and visa fees to pay. Something not needed for many HGV drivers at the moment.valleynick66 said:
No not like how long is a piece of string at all.seth plum said:
Magnitude in itself is a riff on quantity, it’s like you’ve asked me how long is a piece of string.valleynick66 said:
As you won’t jet it go quantify magnitude?seth plum said:
Yes we disagree I suspect because we define magnitude differently.valleynick66 said:
I don’t recall saying it means nothing I.e reverting to passports I just suggest need not be a barrier to taking a driving job.seth plum said:
Yes it is an extra barrier that wasn’t there before. I understand you probably don’t see it as a big deal nevertheless it is a barrier.valleynick66 said:
Don’t agree that it’s a faff to get a passport nor need be time consuming. Indeed the relative cost is not high either if it’s your investment to secure a job and to get a job that is better paid than elsewhere in Europe (as I assume that’s what will attract drivers to return). The change on entry requirements will not have been unknown to impacted stakeholders.seth plum said:
It would be a barrier to for example non UK HGV drivers who currently enter the UK with ID that is not a passport.valleynick66 said:
So to be clear imagine and think.seth plum said:
I imagine thousands do currently. They won’t be allowed to after 1st October though.valleynick66 said:
Why? Don’t they hold passports then? How many people currently travel into the UK with only national identity cards and not a passport ?seth plum said:From the 1st October those travelling in to the UK will no longer be allowed to use EU, EEA, or Swiss national identity cards when entering the UK. They must hold full passports, including presumably non UK truck drivers.
That is another barrier to a solution to the transportation crisis in the UK.
I wonder why.
I would also think that many currently using non passport ID’s don’t have a current passport.That doesn’t really equate to another barrier and “I wonder why” I would suggest.If it emerges as a barrier it’s surely quickly resolved by those people getting a passport ?
It happens in six days.
I agree it can be resolved if they all used a passport, but the time it takes them to get one, plus the expense equates to a barrier. But quickly?
Perhaps non UK HGV drivers don’t want to go to all that kind of faff, especially as is reported there is plenty of work available to them on the continent.
For the drivers to have to include that decision or action in the equation of their working life, when they didn’t have to before, is an extra barrier, and it is because of ….. (sorry I am not allowed to say Brexit am I?).Pure conjecture with no evidence to suggest it’s a meaningful barrier.It’s just a scheduled change to entry requirements.Quite plausible that many will already hold passports anyway for leisure purposes otherwise visiting the UK or other destinations outside Europe.My point is you presented it almost as a confirmed barrier when you seemingly have no data to support that.
It is also meaningful if it is now a passport when it was ID before, if it means nothing why change?Are you still suggesting it’s a meaningful barrier that is going to further exacerbate this petrol distribution issue ?
I just don’t see it as of that magnitude. That is my point.Agree to disagree I suggest.
Things change for the worse on October 1st is my view. I have explained my reasons.It’s only for the worse in this context if any of the potentially returning drivers dont have a passport and can’t get one in the window they want to. Seems an unlikely complication of any significance unless I misunderstand the practicalities of switching from one form of identification to another.
It seems you see such a faff as insignificant, I see it as an extra barrier and a problem.
The problem is down to the UK leaving the EU.Not denying Brexit has a part to play.3 -
No truth in your assertion that many won’t and won’t be able to easily get a passport. Pure conjecture unless you can advise otherwise.seth plum said:
Pointing out the truth is not scaremongering.valleynick66 said:
Scaremongering right there. Zero evidence that passports will be an issue or a faff.seth plum said:
Indeed. If drivers don’t have a passport they might indeed struggle to fill in the forms, get the photos sorted, get them verified, send them off, pay the fee, and await the arrival of said passports. And hope the passport arrives in time. There may also be extra bureaucratic demands and visa fees to pay. Something not needed for many HGV drivers at the moment.valleynick66 said:
No not like how long is a piece of string at all.seth plum said:
Magnitude in itself is a riff on quantity, it’s like you’ve asked me how long is a piece of string.valleynick66 said:
As you won’t jet it go quantify magnitude?seth plum said:
Yes we disagree I suspect because we define magnitude differently.valleynick66 said:
I don’t recall saying it means nothing I.e reverting to passports I just suggest need not be a barrier to taking a driving job.seth plum said:
Yes it is an extra barrier that wasn’t there before. I understand you probably don’t see it as a big deal nevertheless it is a barrier.valleynick66 said:
Don’t agree that it’s a faff to get a passport nor need be time consuming. Indeed the relative cost is not high either if it’s your investment to secure a job and to get a job that is better paid than elsewhere in Europe (as I assume that’s what will attract drivers to return). The change on entry requirements will not have been unknown to impacted stakeholders.seth plum said:
It would be a barrier to for example non UK HGV drivers who currently enter the UK with ID that is not a passport.valleynick66 said:
So to be clear imagine and think.seth plum said:
I imagine thousands do currently. They won’t be allowed to after 1st October though.valleynick66 said:
Why? Don’t they hold passports then? How many people currently travel into the UK with only national identity cards and not a passport ?seth plum said:From the 1st October those travelling in to the UK will no longer be allowed to use EU, EEA, or Swiss national identity cards when entering the UK. They must hold full passports, including presumably non UK truck drivers.
That is another barrier to a solution to the transportation crisis in the UK.
I wonder why.
I would also think that many currently using non passport ID’s don’t have a current passport.That doesn’t really equate to another barrier and “I wonder why” I would suggest.If it emerges as a barrier it’s surely quickly resolved by those people getting a passport ?
It happens in six days.
I agree it can be resolved if they all used a passport, but the time it takes them to get one, plus the expense equates to a barrier. But quickly?
Perhaps non UK HGV drivers don’t want to go to all that kind of faff, especially as is reported there is plenty of work available to them on the continent.
For the drivers to have to include that decision or action in the equation of their working life, when they didn’t have to before, is an extra barrier, and it is because of ….. (sorry I am not allowed to say Brexit am I?).Pure conjecture with no evidence to suggest it’s a meaningful barrier.It’s just a scheduled change to entry requirements.Quite plausible that many will already hold passports anyway for leisure purposes otherwise visiting the UK or other destinations outside Europe.My point is you presented it almost as a confirmed barrier when you seemingly have no data to support that.
It is also meaningful if it is now a passport when it was ID before, if it means nothing why change?Are you still suggesting it’s a meaningful barrier that is going to further exacerbate this petrol distribution issue ?
I just don’t see it as of that magnitude. That is my point.Agree to disagree I suggest.
Things change for the worse on October 1st is my view. I have explained my reasons.It’s only for the worse in this context if any of the potentially returning drivers dont have a passport and can’t get one in the window they want to. Seems an unlikely complication of any significance unless I misunderstand the practicalities of switching from one form of identification to another.
It seems you see such a faff as insignificant, I see it as an extra barrier and a problem.
The problem is down to the UK leaving the EU.Not denying Brexit has a part to play.3 -
Passports, visa’s and presumably CRB checks are all a potential problem but I’m not convinced any of them will prove significantly so.1
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The Prime Minister has extended a friendly hand to European truck drivers hitherto unable to exercise previously-held freedom of movement, by offering visas. But he's asked each of them to bring a few gallons of petrol or diesel with them.
#WinWin5 -
Folk will be obliged to do something they didn't have to do before October 1st. That isn't making things easier, it is making things harder.valleynick66 said:
No truth in your assertion that many won’t and won’t be able to easily get a passport. Pure conjecture unless you can advise otherwise.seth plum said:
Pointing out the truth is not scaremongering.valleynick66 said:
Scaremongering right there. Zero evidence that passports will be an issue or a faff.seth plum said:
Indeed. If drivers don’t have a passport they might indeed struggle to fill in the forms, get the photos sorted, get them verified, send them off, pay the fee, and await the arrival of said passports. And hope the passport arrives in time. There may also be extra bureaucratic demands and visa fees to pay. Something not needed for many HGV drivers at the moment.valleynick66 said:
No not like how long is a piece of string at all.seth plum said:
Magnitude in itself is a riff on quantity, it’s like you’ve asked me how long is a piece of string.valleynick66 said:
As you won’t jet it go quantify magnitude?seth plum said:
Yes we disagree I suspect because we define magnitude differently.valleynick66 said:
I don’t recall saying it means nothing I.e reverting to passports I just suggest need not be a barrier to taking a driving job.seth plum said:
Yes it is an extra barrier that wasn’t there before. I understand you probably don’t see it as a big deal nevertheless it is a barrier.valleynick66 said:
Don’t agree that it’s a faff to get a passport nor need be time consuming. Indeed the relative cost is not high either if it’s your investment to secure a job and to get a job that is better paid than elsewhere in Europe (as I assume that’s what will attract drivers to return). The change on entry requirements will not have been unknown to impacted stakeholders.seth plum said:
It would be a barrier to for example non UK HGV drivers who currently enter the UK with ID that is not a passport.valleynick66 said:
So to be clear imagine and think.seth plum said:
I imagine thousands do currently. They won’t be allowed to after 1st October though.valleynick66 said:
Why? Don’t they hold passports then? How many people currently travel into the UK with only national identity cards and not a passport ?seth plum said:From the 1st October those travelling in to the UK will no longer be allowed to use EU, EEA, or Swiss national identity cards when entering the UK. They must hold full passports, including presumably non UK truck drivers.
That is another barrier to a solution to the transportation crisis in the UK.
I wonder why.
I would also think that many currently using non passport ID’s don’t have a current passport.That doesn’t really equate to another barrier and “I wonder why” I would suggest.If it emerges as a barrier it’s surely quickly resolved by those people getting a passport ?
It happens in six days.
I agree it can be resolved if they all used a passport, but the time it takes them to get one, plus the expense equates to a barrier. But quickly?
Perhaps non UK HGV drivers don’t want to go to all that kind of faff, especially as is reported there is plenty of work available to them on the continent.
For the drivers to have to include that decision or action in the equation of their working life, when they didn’t have to before, is an extra barrier, and it is because of ….. (sorry I am not allowed to say Brexit am I?).Pure conjecture with no evidence to suggest it’s a meaningful barrier.It’s just a scheduled change to entry requirements.Quite plausible that many will already hold passports anyway for leisure purposes otherwise visiting the UK or other destinations outside Europe.My point is you presented it almost as a confirmed barrier when you seemingly have no data to support that.
It is also meaningful if it is now a passport when it was ID before, if it means nothing why change?Are you still suggesting it’s a meaningful barrier that is going to further exacerbate this petrol distribution issue ?
I just don’t see it as of that magnitude. That is my point.Agree to disagree I suggest.
Things change for the worse on October 1st is my view. I have explained my reasons.It’s only for the worse in this context if any of the potentially returning drivers dont have a passport and can’t get one in the window they want to. Seems an unlikely complication of any significance unless I misunderstand the practicalities of switching from one form of identification to another.
It seems you see such a faff as insignificant, I see it as an extra barrier and a problem.
The problem is down to the UK leaving the EU.Not denying Brexit has a part to play.
You may see it as a minor inconvenience, others may not see it the same way..1 -
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Seth getting the hump at people requiring passports to enter the country ?0
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From my Myface/Mumsnet/HGV Drivers Weekly inbox:
"Petrol tanker drivers have an ADR qualification as well as a HGV licence. They need this for them to drive petrol tanker lorries.There is a shortage of HGV drivers. That's a fact.However HGV drivers cannot drive a petrol Tanker lorry without having an ADR qualification.The UK had ADR drivers last week. NOTHING repeat NOTHING changed much in a week. Maybe some holiday or some sickness but not, I doubt a dramatic change.The ADR drivers that were driving last week are still driving this week delivering fuel. So nothing has changed.The petrol panic we are now experiencing is all down to media hype.It's not because of brexit because all the EU drivers went back to Europe. Which is one of the reasons being banded about by so many sadsacks.These EU HGV driver's, left months ago, and yet the country was still getting fuel without problems up until today.So what's changed? Nothing !Apart from the disgraceful media hype and scaremongering to make news. To sensationalise the fact that a couple of petrol stations were getting a late delivery so they closed.Massive panic and chaos by everyone. Which is now causing a shortage of fuel until the ADR drivers, that we already had delivering fuel a few days ago, can deliver again.The media should be fined and penalised, severely for publicising false news and creating the crazy situation that has been going on all today. Disgusting. They should hold their heads in shame.23 -
Have a fair few motorway miles to do tomorrow, with 3/4 of tank as it stands I'll be in comfort mode all day but will need to fill up at some point, hopefully I'll find a garage early before any panic buying starts.0
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there aren’t any petrol supply problems
there are only selfish lowlife scumbags grasping grasping grasping cos they never get their heads out of their rectums long enough to realise the gutter press lies to them cos it knows they’re all dribbling greedy oxygen thieves
no excuses no exceptions all against the wall come the revolution
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Absolutely. Nothing changed from last week to this. It’s going to take a week to settle down now.MrWalker said:From my Myface/Mumsnet/HGV Drivers Weekly inbox:
"Petrol tanker drivers have an ADR qualification as well as a HGV licence. They need this for them to drive petrol tanker lorries.There is a shortage of HGV drivers. That's a fact.However HGV drivers cannot drive a petrol Tanker lorry without having an ADR qualification.The UK had ADR drivers last week. NOTHING repeat NOTHING changed much in a week. Maybe some holiday or some sickness but not, I doubt a dramatic change.The ADR drivers that were driving last week are still driving this week delivering fuel. So nothing has changed.The petrol panic we are now experiencing is all down to media hype.It's not because of brexit because all the EU drivers went back to Europe. Which is one of the reasons being banded about by so many sadsacks.These EU HGV driver's, left months ago, and yet the country was still getting fuel without problems up until today.So what's changed? Nothing !Apart from the disgraceful media hype and scaremongering to make news. To sensationalise the fact that a couple of petrol stations were getting a late delivery so they closed.Massive panic and chaos by everyone. Which is now causing a shortage of fuel until the ADR drivers, that we already had delivering fuel a few days ago, can deliver again.The media should be fined and penalised, severely for publicising false news and creating the crazy situation that has been going on all today. Disgusting. They should hold their heads in shame.0 -
I need petrol however went to seven garages whilst picking my grandson up to go to Charlton, on the way back and all my local ones and all seven had signs up saying no fuel.0
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Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.You couldn’t make it up.6
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A few shops local to me have shut early in fear of safety, people arguing and fighting and it's getting too much.0
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But what did he say about the looming passport issue ? 🙂ShootersHillGuru said:Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.You couldn’t make it up.0 -
So let me check my notes, it’s not about Brexit but we want drivers from the EU who we cut off months ago, but there a shortage of drivers in the EU, so where we getting this excess of drivers from?
it’s almost like some are being gaslit by the government, as they can’t lose face over how they voted in 201611 -
Still a massive queue from Forest Hill down to Sydenham as I was coming back from a night out about 10 mins ago. The station workers must really be feeling the strain. Trying to co-ordinate all this0
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5500 poultry workers will also get three month temporary visas. Now this one might actually work because these workers from I presume Eastern Europe would only usually been seasonal anyway. I bet Steve Baker and Mark Francois et al wondered why they bothered telling all those porkies only to see it all collapse in a pile of polish Turkey pluckers and Afghan refugees lording it up.1
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Update from New Eltham: Just looked out my window. No queue of cars. All seems quiet.
Mind you, I don't live near a petrol station.7 -
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Just plugged my car in for the night - full battery in the morning.Would still prefer a proper car though.0
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Getting up early to fill some more jerry cans - the fumes in my flat are quite strong.0
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An hour each way added to my bus journey to The Valley today because of the panic-buying. The garage in Welling had cars coming at it from 3 angles - and cars in the middle of the road - across it - blocking any traffic getting through.0
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What Spice Girl can get Petrol......
Well Geri can.1 -
And there is no fuel because the country went out and bought over a weeks worth of normal fuel sales in just a day and a half.eaststandmike said:I need petrol however went to seven garages whilst picking my grandson up to go to Charlton, on the way back and all my local ones and all seven had signs up saying no fuel.We’ll no doubt see a similar panic run on something else soon.4 -
Toilet rolls again?AFKABartram said:
And there is no fuel because the country went out and bought over a weeks worth of normal fuel sales in just a day and a half.eaststandmike said:I need petrol however went to seven garages whilst picking my grandson up to go to Charlton, on the way back and all my local ones and all seven had signs up saying no fuel.We’ll no doubt see a similar panic run on something else soon.0 -
It will be tinned food or something like shitrag, news outlets think this is a fun game. Reminds me of the plot to one of the bond films Pierce Brosnan was in where a news conglomerate started a war so they could report on it
The fights I saw over bogroll genuinely made me think that element of humanity did not deserve to survive any global plague if they can't have the fortitude and wherewithal to clean their own shit caked arseholes with anything other than paper1 -
You know what i mean mate...same old grim reapers come out the wood at every opportunity with their brexit crap..ShootersHillGuru said:
Sorry chips. How can you talk about a problem without talking about the problem ???????Chippycafc said:
Cant give it a rest can they.ValleyGary said:Brexit thread is over there —————>1 -
The owners of HGV companies have gotta start being positive about it, even if it’s negative, then sing god save the Queen, that should sort it.Chippycafc said:
You know what i mean mate...same old grim reapers come out the wood at every opportunity with their brexit crap..ShootersHillGuru said:
Sorry chips. How can you talk about a problem without talking about the problem ???????Chippycafc said:
Cant give it a rest can they.ValleyGary said:Brexit thread is over there —————>8
This discussion has been closed.
