Charlton Only - January 2022 Transfer Rumours (Deadline Day p.97)

Leuth said:

Anyway, for all that I'm on acid or an idiot or whatever, none of you have provided actual reasons for why Lee's skillset or physical abilities disbar him from being capable of playing a DM role. He's not exactly averse to putting in a challenge, is he? I'm not remotely saying he's as good as Dobson, but would you rather him or Watson in there?

Because it's nonsense. It's a fantasy. It a drunken pub discussion where the one with the screw loose makes the random suggestion and you all change the subject and get another round in.
I've no idea whether Elliot Lee would make a good defensive midfielder, but you can bet his coaches and the man himself do.
Why waste time and resource sticking a player in a role you didn't recruit him for (unless the player had at some point shown an aptitude and desire for the role).
Christ, it's difficult enough getting the right players in, getting them motivated and working to instruction, without randomly sticking one in an unfamiliar role because their dad did it.

Scoham said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Scoham said:

killerandflash said:

Cafc43v3r said:

killerandflash said:

Dobson and Clare in particular need extending, their contracts (2 year deals to 2023) seem like outliers when Chuks and Fraser are contracted to 2025

Gilbey and MacG (and indeed Morgan) are less urgent, they need to earn a contract extension.

Of the ones expiring this summer, I'm not bothered either way about Matthews, Purrington and Washington. Both will do a job in L1, but both are replaceable. With Pearce, I imagine it depends on how much they see him playing next season, and whether we can afford the squad place for a player/coach

With Washington IMO it's a case of can you realistically get two strikers better than him? 

Assuming we'll be in L1 next season, I can see us wanting him for another year as he seems a decent guy to have around the place, but he'll want a longer deal

I think that’s what it’ll come down to. I’ll be concerned if Washington signs a 3 or 4 year deal. If he stays it’s got to be 1 or 2 at most.

I don't think 2 years would be a problem for most of them tbh.  If you first team is good enough to get promoted your would think most of them could step up. 

You will already have to replace any loans and a couple that fall out the bottom, for want of a better expression.

Even this season the players we retained aren't in all honesty the problem. 

You wouldn’t want to keep Matthews, Gunter, Watson etc though would you?

Matthews I don't know but would be fine as a squad player. 

The other 2 of course not but they are not the reason we are 15th.  Gunter played because we didn't get a left back and has hardly played since and Watson only started 6 games partly because Arter wasn't fit for purpose and partly because we only had 3 fit midfielders.  

Each mistake we made in the summer was magnified by another one. 

Leuth said:

Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:

Leuth said:

Anyway, for all that I'm on acid or an idiot or whatever, none of you have provided actual reasons for why Lee's skillset or physical abilities disbar him from being capable of playing a DM role. He's not exactly averse to putting in a challenge, is he? I'm not remotely saying he's as good as Dobson, but would you rather him or Watson in there?

Because it's nonsense. It's a fantasy. It a drunken pub discussion where the one with the screw loose makes the random suggestion and you all change the subject and get another round in.
I've no idea whether Elliot Lee would make a good defensive midfielder, but you can bet his coaches and the man himself do.
Why waste time and resource sticking a player in a role you didn't recruit him for (unless the player had at some point shown an aptitude and desire for the role).
Christ, it's difficult enough getting the right players in, getting them motivated and working to instruction, without randomly sticking one in an unfamiliar role because their dad did it.

And so we have impasse. Until Dobson is unavailable, and then we see what Jackson does.

Oh, I think it is a safe bet he will select Watson.
That's a mistake that will hopefully be corrected in the summer.
It's crying shame that Watson triggered his own extension because I'd wager that otherwise we would have held on to Pratley instead, at least for one more year to understudy Dobson, and he is a natural in that DM role.
Also a leader and good influence in the dressing room.
Arter was a punt that backfired.

Leuth said:

Lee has energy, is combative and has passing range. Who's to say he can't play DM if he retrains for it? 

In training sessions and matches, players are often asked to play unfamiliar positions.
One benefit is it can add to the player an exra awareness of those around them and team shape from a different perspective; improve a dimension of their own game, etc.

That doesn't mean the management team would pick them to play the 1st team in that unfamiliar role - except during injury crisis or other unforeseen situations.

Although, having said that, we've seen when Jacko took over, he played Clare at CB and the wingers as wingbacks.
That wouldn't have happened just on whim - he would've seen them try those roles in training first, over a period of time.

Back to your suggestion: you can bet your life Elliott Lee has aready been made to play DM in training matches. 
Dobson has been imperious at DM, of course ...... but even in the Pizza Cup, we've never seen Lee take Dobson's place.

There'll be a reason for that, of course.

Cafc43v3r said:

Scoham said:

killerandflash said:

Cafc43v3r said:

killerandflash said:

Dobson and Clare in particular need extending, their contracts (2 year deals to 2023) seem like outliers when Chuks and Fraser are contracted to 2025

Gilbey and MacG (and indeed Morgan) are less urgent, they need to earn a contract extension.

Of the ones expiring this summer, I'm not bothered either way about Matthews, Purrington and Washington. Both will do a job in L1, but both are replaceable. With Pearce, I imagine it depends on how much they see him playing next season, and whether we can afford the squad place for a player/coach

With Washington IMO it's a case of can you realistically get two strikers better than him? 

Assuming we'll be in L1 next season, I can see us wanting him for another year as he seems a decent guy to have around the place, but he'll want a longer deal

I think that’s what it’ll come down to. I’ll be concerned if Washington signs a 3 or 4 year deal. If he stays it’s got to be 1 or 2 at most.

I don't think 2 years would be a problem for most of them tbh.  If you first team is good enough to get promoted your would think most of them could step up. 

You will already have to replace any loans and a couple that fall out the bottom, for want of a better expression.

Even this season the players we retained aren't in all honesty the problem. 

Not ideal with squad number caps though, and the likes of Gunter and Watson will be earning good wages too.

Next season the number goes down to 21, so even less scope for "dead wood"

killerandflash said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Scoham said:

killerandflash said:

Cafc43v3r said:

killerandflash said:

Dobson and Clare in particular need extending, their contracts (2 year deals to 2023) seem like outliers when Chuks and Fraser are contracted to 2025

Gilbey and MacG (and indeed Morgan) are less urgent, they need to earn a contract extension.

Of the ones expiring this summer, I'm not bothered either way about Matthews, Purrington and Washington. Both will do a job in L1, but both are replaceable. With Pearce, I imagine it depends on how much they see him playing next season, and whether we can afford the squad place for a player/coach

With Washington IMO it's a case of can you realistically get two strikers better than him? 

Assuming we'll be in L1 next season, I can see us wanting him for another year as he seems a decent guy to have around the place, but he'll want a longer deal

I think that’s what it’ll come down to. I’ll be concerned if Washington signs a 3 or 4 year deal. If he stays it’s got to be 1 or 2 at most.

I don't think 2 years would be a problem for most of them tbh.  If you first team is good enough to get promoted your would think most of them could step up. 

You will already have to replace any loans and a couple that fall out the bottom, for want of a better expression.

Even this season the players we retained aren't in all honesty the problem. 

Not ideal with squad number caps though, and the likes of Gunter and Watson will be earning good wages too.

Next season the number goes down to 21, so even less scope for "dead wood"

Yes and they will both go at the end of the season so it's not a problem is it? 

Leuth said:

Anyway, for all that I'm on acid or an idiot or whatever, none of you have provided actual reasons for why Lee's skillset or physical abilities disbar him from being capable of playing a DM role. He's not exactly averse to putting in a challenge, is he? I'm not remotely saying he's as good as Dobson, but would you rather him or Watson in there?

Personally dont think he works hard enough. Happy to get stuck in but he is pretty powder puff and gets knocked off too easily. 

Could see him like an Andy Reid-esque kind of winger.

Would prefer Deji in there if that was the case though.

king addick said:

Leuth said:

Anyway, for all that I'm on acid or an idiot or whatever, none of you have provided actual reasons for why Lee's skillset or physical abilities disbar him from being capable of playing a DM role. He's not exactly averse to putting in a challenge, is he? I'm not remotely saying he's as good as Dobson, but would you rather him or Watson in there?

Personally dont think he works hard enough. Happy to get stuck in but he is pretty powder puff and gets knocked off too easily. 

Could see him like an Andy Reid-esque kind of winger.

Would prefer Deji in there if that was the case though.

I think it would be tough to reposition him to a DM on the basis that I don’t see him doing the legwork to mop up in the way Dobson does.  You (leuth) yourself, like me didn’t really enjoy watching Pratley or Watson as a DM.  I’m not saying Lee would be anywhere as immobile as those two have been (at the back end of their careers), but I can’t really see him physically covering the pitch, putting the tackles in.  If you want him as a low lying Pirlo type player, then again, I think players have to be very, very good to do that.  Seems to be a bit of a disease in the game where you’ve got average midfielders that have grown up watching Pirlo, Scholes etc spray long passes around the pitch and try to match those ‘Hollywood balls’

JFC and Morgan both guilty of it.  They’re okay players, but have a misplaced arrogance thinking they can execute those type of balls on a regular basis.  One in every 20 or so come off.  

DOUCHER said:

Elewere at cdm is a terrible shout - i'm fairly certain that nile john is cover for dobson 

From what I've been told is that John is a very versatile midfielder capable of playing most positions/roles and is capable of using both feet. 

But his main asset is his pace and drive with a football to exploit space so for him to sit, slide and screen our defence I'm not so sure. 

Wondering if Jake is going play this season and if he could cover that position. 

It's definitely one role we need cover for in the summer. 

KiwiValley said:

KiwiValley said:

AddickRam said:

killerandflash said:

With TS talking about the possibility of bringing in a free agent striker, what do our squad numbers look like now?

Where would Marcus Browne have sat?

No one has responded to my question - Could someone please kindly answer the question: Where would Marcus Browne have appeared in our formation?  I want to get a sense of where Gallen JJ and co feel we finished the window light in.

Edit: Open the previous quote above to see formation.

Browne would have been an option as either one of the front two, or in the Elliott Lee role behind the strikers

KiwiValley said:

KiwiValley said:

AddickRam said:

killerandflash said:

With TS talking about the possibility of bringing in a free agent striker, what do our squad numbers look like now?

Where would Marcus Browne have sat?

No one has responded to my question - Could someone please kindly answer the question: Where would Marcus Browne have appeared in our formation?  I want to get a sense of where Gallen JJ and co feel we finished the window light in.

Edit: Open the previous quote above to see formation.

I may (obviously!) be totally misreading the situation, but seems too much of a coincidence that we lost our interest in Browne  at the same time we put in a formal bid on Fraser. My guess is we caught an unexpected sniff Fraser was potentially available and switched focus as he was our #1 target. I expect Browne would've filled the same role.