My personal view is that having, alongside most on here witnessed my football club being driven to the point of extinction by the Spivs, Duchatelet, ESI and a myriad of conmen, crooks, bluffers and dentists,
what ever his side of the story, Driesen was part of that.
As we languish in the lower reaches of a lower league and I trapse up to Sheffield on Saturday with little hope, just following my team, I have no stomach or desire to hear his side of the story.
Our current predicament was not down to to an individual decision or person, its a culmination of the lot of them and Driesen was part of that.
That might read as bitter, short sighted or belligerent but its how I feel, I can ignore the thread just as AFKA suggests, but I cant forget, I wish @ThomasD would just jog on from my club and leave me to pick up the pieces, Roland was the closest I came to walking away from football, his ownership was to me anti football and Driesen was knowingly part of that regime.
I can never forgive or try to understand, they have put me through years of misery protest and angst, so for that reason I am out.
@SE7toSG3 I’m playing devils advocate a bit but I know I can ask you and have a civil debate with because you are a mate.
Driesen was hired by Duchatelet to work off field on the football side of the club. So too were Bowyer, Gallen, Jose Riga, Tracey Leaburn to name a few.
What’s the difference as to why all those are ok, but Driesen has always been to many the devil incarnate?
Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t think he said anything publicly derogatory when in role (even though he’s had abuse and ridicule since day 1).
It feels to me that’s been purely based on the assumption that because he was young, we all naturally assumed inexperienced and was inappropriate. That was probably my view at the time. The photos with the silly hair probably aggravated that. Over time though I’ve definitely revised my view and probably appreciate that the role of an analyst in football recruitment is more central to what I probably appreciated then, and I can’t see what this bloke has done in his job that would trigger such abuse and hatred.
I do as little Twitter as I have to as I find it poisonous and unhealthy, so perhaps there has been stuff I’ve not been privy to. I also don’t think Driesen does himself any favours in the way he responds to people, but then again I’ve not been subject to years of personal abuse and piss taking.
Same thing with Martin Sandgaard. I'm not opinionating in any way for or against his appointment, but imo there's far to much vitriol aimed at his appointment than is necessary.
I thought his (MS) role was "Director if Analysis", which surely requires more IT and statistical expertise, along with some football knowledge, but you wouldn't necessarily need to be a footballing mastermind?
I think the question is really ‘why would you appoint someone who has little or no experience in the role, over someone who has’.
Agree that no one should be aiming vitriol at Martin though. Or anyone else for that matter!
I hope Martin does a great job, whatever his qualifications.
I hope he fucks off and gets replaced by someone who knows what they are doing
This thread has only just been pointed out to me, it's a very interesting read.
Just in relation to the podcast, I understand why Thomas isn’t a fan but as a piece of journalism we’re extremely confident that it stands up. We spoke to every head coach on the record, three first-team coaches, countless players, agents and worked hard on finding who the network scouts were before speaking to many on and off the record. We spoke to plenty more people off the record and obtained emails sent by the owner and his scouts - some published and others that weren’t. The overwhelming view from almost every relevant person that we spoke to was that Thomas had the biggest influence on player recruitment at that time. Many suggested that Duchâtelet’s trust in him ultimately meant Thomas had the final say. I know Thomas holds the view that many of the people we spoke to were (also) pissed off having been sacked and therefore he was an easy target for them. Personally I think that’s extremely unlikely. We offered Thomas the chance to have his say 7/8 times and we even sent him a list of written questions and he decided not to respond.
The series was not an exhaustive list of who signed who but that wasn’t the point of it. It was to provide an insight into the running of the club at that point in time and every claim made in the podcast had to be corroborated by numerous sources. Anything that wasn’t, was removed by our lawyers who looked over it a number of times. We really, really, really didn’t want to get sued by Roland Duchâtelet! It’s not perfect, there’s plenty missing but to be clear, it wasn’t the work of one ‘pissed off’ person who had an issue with Thomas Driesen.
Well done those who told him to fuck off . Classy . It was just getting interesting as well .
Well I suppose it was my comment that he used to flounce off. I actually don’t think that was the real reason though. It was that he was getting questions from knowledgeable people that were putting him in his place. My anger was just the straw he clutched at to bugger off. If that has upset some on here I’m sorry to have given him that. But I stand by everything I said. Without him and some other useful idiots Duchatelet would not have been enabled in ruining the club so readily.
I have no idea if we're finally getting the real truth here or if we're being fed a load of revisionist bollocks but I will say, not for the first time, I will never find forgiveness in my heart for whoever was truly at the root of the decision to sell Kermorgant.
He will always be one of the most talismanic players we've ever had. A Rolls Royce with bull bars and a battering ram. A ballet dancer in hobnail boots. A bullet with butterfly wings. He was absolutely mustard and I loved watching him play and he was taken away from us far far too early by some know-nothing prick in a far away land who probably never even took the time to properly watch him play.
I have no idea if we're finally getting the real truth here or if we're being fed a load of revisionist bollocks but I will say, not for the first time, I will never find forgiveness in my heart for whoever was truly at the root of the decision to sell Kermorgant.
He will always be one of the most talismanic players we've ever head. A Rolls Royce with bull bars and a battering ram. A ballet dancer in hobnail boots. A bullet with butterfly wings. He was absolutely mustard and I loved watching him play and he was taken away from us far far too early by some know-nothing prick in a far away land who probably never even took the time to properly watch him play.
I have no idea if we're finally getting the real truth here or if we're being fed a load of revisionist bollocks but I will say, not for the first time, I will never find forgiveness in my heart for whoever was truly at the root of the decision to sell Kermorgant.
He will always be one of the most talismanic players we've ever head. A Rolls Royce with bull bars and a battering ram. A ballet dancer in hobnail boots. A bullet with butterfly wings. He was absolutely mustard and I loved watching him play and he was taken away from us far far too early by some know-nothing prick in a far away land who probably never even took the time to properly watch him play.
I'll never forget or forgive!
Named Roland.
I am not questioning anyone's journalistic credibility or the confidence in anyone's sources that "knows".
The only person that 100% knows why Yann was sold, and on who's advice, and against who's advice is Roland. IMO it's very conceivable that KM, SCP and Yann were all told different stories as to who and why.
I have no idea if we're finally getting the real truth here or if we're being fed a load of revisionist bollocks but I will say, not for the first time, I will never find forgiveness in my heart for whoever was truly at the root of the decision to sell Kermorgant.
He will always be one of the most talismanic players we've ever head. A Rolls Royce with bull bars and a battering ram. A ballet dancer in hobnail boots. A bullet with butterfly wings. He was absolutely mustard and I loved watching him play and he was taken away from us far far too early by some know-nothing prick in a far away land who probably never even took the time to properly watch him play.
I'll never forget or forgive!
Named Roland.
I am not questioning anyone's journalistic credibility or the confidence in anyone's sources that "knows".
The only person that 100% knows why Yann was sold, and on who's advice, and against who's advice is Roland. IMO it's very conceivable that KM, SCP and Yann were all told different stories as to who and why.
Roland Diuchatelet personally stated that he was unhappy with the wage demands of Yann, felt he was being blackmailed and he personally disliked that more than anything, went against everything he believed in and so binned Yann off.
Whether Yann had more years left in him was entirely irrelevant.
Roland Diuchatelet personally stated that he was unhappy with the wage demands of Yann, felt he was being blackmailed and he personally disliked that more than anything, went against everything he believed in and so binned Yann off.
Whether Yann had more years left in him was entirely irrelevant.
It depends if you think Yann’s salary demands were unreasonable and that hinges on how important he was to the team. You can’t divorce the two things.
Look at the money this idiot shovelled out to players who contributed very little.
I hated being part of a network, that is not how football works for me.
The idiot regime Roland bought in with all these faceless coaches having a say in whats what ... any combination of two to decide on what happens? Plenty of wiggle room there for Thomas and his mates to dip in and out of their selected highlights while pointing fingers at each other..
I wished that energy and money was invested in Chris Powell and his team. The consummate pro with 667 games under his belt, 5 England caps and a successful opening into management to boot. For him to be usurped by this lot including the mouthy kid with a computer was an absolute disgrace imo. I wonder if Thomas was embarrassed by his role in this ... although from his demeanour I'd guess not.
Some people on here showing how blinded by rage they are, especially people who were in and around the club at the same time as Tommy was. I get why you would be, but at the end of the day he came on here to provide his version of events, and was actually producing some evidence to back things up, but with so many people jumping down his throat and insulting him, he's decided to leave before everything came out. It's a shame as I've always wondered how that period in our history went so drastically wrong, and he could provide a unique insight into the club at that time, from a different side of the whole debacle
I don't think it's a coincidence, I think that unfortunately signing players isn't an exact science, and some DoFs have their moment and it passes. I hope that isn't the case with Gallen but he did seem to do excellent work bringing in players he was aware of from previous years and experiences and that well may have run a little dry. Driesen didn't scout anything, he looked at data, which is essentially what Martin Sandgaard will be doing. The problem we had in the early days of Driesen was actual football people were being overuled based on data and only data. It's very important that that isn't the case now and we will see. There's no evidence that the pool of players we're signing from has reduced because of Driesen, none whatsoever. We have been for the last few years and continue to be now recruiting players exclusively from the UK, and we know that it was Gallen and his contacts who were unearthing the Gallaghers and the Bieliks, we're hardly missing out on the finest League Two talent because Tommy is no longer reading data reports on Rochdale's left back. With Gallen at the moment I think of Steve Walsh. At Leicester, he identified Mahrez, Vardy and Kante among others and contributed to Leciester's ridiculous title win. He then went to Everton and recommended £150m worth of dross. He also says he suggested Andy Robertson, Harry Maguire and 16 year old Erling Haaland, but I find it hard to believe anyone chose Davy Klaassen, Morgan Schneiderlin and Michael Keane over them. He now works as a special adviser for Charlotte FC in the MLS. His moment has passed.
I also think the difference this season is we aren't necessarily buying bad players, we're getting decent players and wrecking them. Alex Gilbey was MK Dons' player of the year for two successive seasons at this level, and last night looked like a non-league player against that same team. MacGillivray was Pompey's player of the season last year, Scott Fraser was everyone's favourite player but I'm sure we'll ruin him yet. Chuks was a logical signing based on how well he did for us in League One, Stockley was good for actual Charlton before looking like an imposter the whole time Adkins was there after we signed him permanently. DJ was excellent for Swindon at L1 level and looked ready for a step up, Leko was good for us in the Championship but now looks atrocious in League One. There's some signings in there that aren't great, mostly last season under the cap at short notice, but there's few signings I've looked at this season and thought were a terrible idea. In fact, the players who arguably seemed least logical - George Dobson run out by Sunderland and Sean Clare unwanted at Oxford, CBT let go by L2 Tranmere - have given better accounts of themselves than most of the others. The loans have gone sideways, there's no doubt Gallen is struggling to identify usable potential, but the profile of our signings has actually been pretty good on paper. I don't know how far he can be blamed for the failure of the coaching staff to get that talent onto the pitch where others have succeeded. Fresh ideas might be the answer, but as Airman says Driesen was nothing more than an obstacle that has been removed.
Good post. When I interviewed Warren Gatland ahead of the 2017 Lions tour he spoke in depth about using data vs trusting his deep experience and knowledge of the game in player selection. He said that he used the data to support his instincts and his own eyes - when the two agreed he knew it was the right decision.
I have no idea if we're finally getting the real truth here or if we're being fed a load of revisionist bollocks but I will say, not for the first time, I will never find forgiveness in my heart for whoever was truly at the root of the decision to sell Kermorgant.
He will always be one of the most talismanic players we've ever head. A Rolls Royce with bull bars and a battering ram. A ballet dancer in hobnail boots. A bullet with butterfly wings. He was absolutely mustard and I loved watching him play and he was taken away from us far far too early by some know-nothing prick in a far away land who probably never even took the time to properly watch him play.
I'll never forget or forgive!
Named Roland.
I am not questioning anyone's journalistic credibility or the confidence in anyone's sources that "knows".
The only person that 100% knows why Yann was sold, and on who's advice, and against who's advice is Roland. IMO it's very conceivable that KM, SCP and Yann were all told different stories as to who and why.
Doesn’t matter. It was still Roland’s decision.
Exactly so people accusing Thomas, Thomas denying it and then fight each other about it is completely pointless and misses the whole point.
Yes Yann leaving was a significant marker but wasn't the reason we got relegated 2 years later.
I hated being part of a network, that is not how football works for me.
The idiot regime Roland bought in with all these faceless coaches having a say in whats what ... any combination of two to decide on what happens? Plenty of wiggle room there for Thomas and his mates to dip in and out of their selected highlights while pointing fingers at each other..
I wished that energy and money was invested in Chris Powell and his team. The consummate pro with 667 games under his belt, 5 England caps and a successful opening into management to boot. For him to be usurped by this lot including the mouthy kid with a computer was an absolute disgrace imo. I wonder if Thomas was embarrassed by his role in this ... although from his demeanour I'd guess not.
And look how many people want to follow the "Brentford model", which involves a network, the problem with the network (apart from the people running it) was the clubs weren't compatible, seemingly picked at random, and Charlton, despite the league position, should have been at the top of the tree.
If Standard had "sold" us Michy Batshuayi, for example, Roland would have ultimately got 3 or 4 times what he did from selling him from Standard.
You know what, with all the shit that's going down at the moment in the world, I don't give a flying f*ck for what Football Manager Boy wants to say or do. Just probabaly best to ignore from now on, that chapter is closed.
Gets exposed for being a liar and suddenly the chapter is closed. Shocker
Ignores all questions that don't fit his pathetic narrative and agenda then puts personal attack against a Charlton fan and ex employee whom has had the clubs best interests at heart. Shocker.
Did I recall Diego Poyet refusing a contract, as it was rumoured that if signed he would be considered ‘part of the network’ and thus potentially farmed to Standard Liege or wherever? Or was that a convenient excuse not to sign so that he could sign a big deal for West Ham? I’d like to know if the rumours at the time about Poyet and the potential for loaning out were true.
I don't think it's a coincidence, I think that unfortunately signing players isn't an exact science, and some DoFs have their moment and it passes. I hope that isn't the case with Gallen but he did seem to do excellent work bringing in players he was aware of from previous years and experiences and that well may have run a little dry. Driesen didn't scout anything, he looked at data, which is essentially what Martin Sandgaard will be doing. The problem we had in the early days of Driesen was actual football people were being overuled based on data and only data. It's very important that that isn't the case now and we will see. There's no evidence that the pool of players we're signing from has reduced because of Driesen, none whatsoever. We have been for the last few years and continue to be now recruiting players exclusively from the UK, and we know that it was Gallen and his contacts who were unearthing the Gallaghers and the Bieliks, we're hardly missing out on the finest League Two talent because Tommy is no longer reading data reports on Rochdale's left back. With Gallen at the moment I think of Steve Walsh. At Leicester, he identified Mahrez, Vardy and Kante among others and contributed to Leciester's ridiculous title win. He then went to Everton and recommended £150m worth of dross. He also says he suggested Andy Robertson, Harry Maguire and 16 year old Erling Haaland, but I find it hard to believe anyone chose Davy Klaassen, Morgan Schneiderlin and Michael Keane over them. He now works as a special adviser for Charlotte FC in the MLS. His moment has passed.
I also think the difference this season is we aren't necessarily buying bad players, we're getting decent players and wrecking them. Alex Gilbey was MK Dons' player of the year for two successive seasons at this level, and last night looked like a non-league player against that same team. MacGillivray was Pompey's player of the season last year, Scott Fraser was everyone's favourite player but I'm sure we'll ruin him yet. Chuks was a logical signing based on how well he did for us in League One, Stockley was good for actual Charlton before looking like an imposter the whole time Adkins was there after we signed him permanently. DJ was excellent for Swindon at L1 level and looked ready for a step up, Leko was good for us in the Championship but now looks atrocious in League One. There's some signings in there that aren't great, mostly last season under the cap at short notice, but there's few signings I've looked at this season and thought were a terrible idea. In fact, the players who arguably seemed least logical - George Dobson run out by Sunderland and Sean Clare unwanted at Oxford, CBT let go by L2 Tranmere - have given better accounts of themselves than most of the others. The loans have gone sideways, there's no doubt Gallen is struggling to identify usable potential, but the profile of our signings has actually been pretty good on paper. I don't know how far he can be blamed for the failure of the coaching staff to get that talent onto the pitch where others have succeeded. Fresh ideas might be the answer, but as Airman says Driesen was nothing more than an obstacle that has been removed.
Good post. When I interviewed Warren Gatland ahead of the 2017 Lions tour he spoke in depth about using data vs trusting his deep experience and knowledge of the game in player selection. He said that he used the data to support his instincts and his own eyes - when the two agreed he knew it was the right decision.
And there you have it. How difficult is it?
Using stats and data is completely correct ... but not in isolation. You use them to support or undermine your instincts/opinion/advice whatever.
And this is where Driesen was clearly out of his depth. Analytical nerd maybe (and I mean that in a nice way), but with no idea what a decent footballer looks like.
Did I recall Diego Poyet refusing a contract, as it was rumoured that if signed he would be considered ‘part of the network’ and thus potentially farmed to Standard Liege or wherever? Or was that a convenient excuse not to sign so that he could sign a big deal for West Ham? I’d like to know if the rumours at the time about Poyet and the potential for loaning out were true.
Morals v Money..... think I know which one I would bet on.
Did I recall Diego Poyet refusing a contract, as it was rumoured that if signed he would be considered ‘part of the network’ and thus potentially farmed to Standard Liege or wherever? Or was that a convenient excuse not to sign so that he could sign a big deal for West Ham? I’d like to know if the rumours at the time about Poyet and the potential for loaning out were true.
I think it was said he was offered a contract with Standard Liege as a last attempt to keep him in the network having already turned down a final offer with us.
Well done those who told him to fuck off . Classy . It was just getting interesting as well .
Well I suppose it was my comment that he used to flounce off. I actually don’t think that was the real reason though. It was that he was getting questions from knowledgeable people that were putting him in his place. My anger was just the straw he clutched at to bugger off. If that has upset some on here I’m sorry to have given him that. But I stand by everything I said. Without him and some other useful idiots Duchatelet would not have been enabled in ruining the club so readily.
Strange, I thought that also applied the other way round a little bit tbh
That time Driesen decided the tactics and team selection.
I think if sandgaard gives JJ the boot we could do worse than to employ Duchatelet as our new coach, he seems to know what he is talking about. Duchatelet & Driesen, the dream team.
Shame this wasn't done with a journalist who could verify these ominous "screenshots" with other sources
The guy could post whatever he likes
Maybe, but I’m inclined to take the screenshots at face value. I’m sure there are plenty of other screenshots that he isn’t sharing which would tell the whole story however.
No idea if TD’s version of events are accurate, but I have to say he’s doing well at holding his own in a foreign language in the face of an onslaught.
Some people on here showing how blinded by rage they are, especially people who were in and around the club at the same time as Tommy was. I get why you would be, but at the end of the day he came on here to provide his version of events, and was actually producing some evidence to back things up, but with so many people jumping down his throat and insulting him, he's decided to leave before everything came out. It's a shame as I've always wondered how that period in our history went so drastically wrong, and he could provide a unique insight into the club at that time, from a different side of the whole debacle
But was that all he came here for?
I certainly thought that was the case at first. By and large he received a relatively friendly welcome from most, under the circumstances. We almost all wanted to hear what he had to say, because he was a protagonist during a critical time in the club’s history, and because he might have some insight in the club’s recent recruitment issues.
Unfortunately he quite quickly went on the attack, and made some pretty defamatory statements about two former club insiders who have documented that period when he was part of the Roland set up. It all went rapidly downhill from there. I think he was at least partly here to settle old scores. Bear in mind that he was always given the right of reply, but always chose to turn the offers down. Perhaps if he hadn’t accused them of lying and ‘fabricating stories’ we might have got somewhere. It was also obvious early on that he had little interest in engaging in the way we hoped he would. Disappointingly, he chose to ignore practically any question that didn’t relate to one of the transfers he believes he got right.
Some people on here showing how blinded by rage they are, especially people who were in and around the club at the same time as Tommy was. I get why you would be, but at the end of the day he came on here to provide his version of events, and was actually producing some evidence to back things up, but with so many people jumping down his throat and insulting him, he's decided to leave before everything came out. It's a shame as I've always wondered how that period in our history went so drastically wrong, and he could provide a unique insight into the club at that time, from a different side of the whole debacle
But was that all he came here for?
I certainly thought that was the case at first. By and large he received a relatively friendly welcome from most, under the circumstances. We almost all wanted to hear what he had to say, because he was a protagonist during a critical time in the club’s history, and because he might have some insight in the club’s recent recruitment issues.
Unfortunately he quite quickly went on the attack, and made some pretty defamatory statements about two former club insiders who have documented that period when he was part of the Roland set up. It all went rapidly downhill there. I think he was at least partly here to settle old scores. Bear in mind that he was always given the right of reply, but always chose to turn the offers down. Perhaps if he hadn’t accused them of lying and ‘fabricating stories’ we might have got somewhere. It was also obvious early on that he had little interest in engaging in the way we hoped he would. Disappointingly, he chose to ignore practically any question that didn’t relate to one of the transfers he believes he got right.
Couldn’t help feeling we were being used.
All the nice quotes will now be highlighted on his new LinkedIn page!
Comments
This thread has only just been pointed out to me, it's a very interesting read.
Just in relation to the podcast, I understand why Thomas isn’t a fan but as a piece of journalism we’re extremely confident that it stands up. We spoke to every head coach on the record, three first-team coaches, countless players, agents and worked hard on finding who the network scouts were before speaking to many on and off the record. We spoke to plenty more people off the record and obtained emails sent by the owner and his scouts - some published and others that weren’t. The overwhelming view from almost every relevant person that we spoke to was that Thomas had the biggest influence on player recruitment at that time. Many suggested that Duchâtelet’s trust in him ultimately meant Thomas had the final say. I know Thomas holds the view that many of the people we spoke to were (also) pissed off having been sacked and therefore he was an easy target for them. Personally I think that’s extremely unlikely. We offered Thomas the chance to have his say 7/8 times and we even sent him a list of written questions and he decided not to respond.
The series was not an exhaustive list of who signed who but that wasn’t the point of it. It was to provide an insight into the running of the club at that point in time and every claim made in the podcast had to be corroborated by numerous sources. Anything that wasn’t, was removed by our lawyers who looked over it a number of times. We really, really, really didn’t want to get sued by Roland Duchâtelet! It’s not perfect, there’s plenty missing but to be clear, it wasn’t the work of one ‘pissed off’ person who had an issue with Thomas Driesen.
If that has upset some on here I’m sorry to have given him that. But I stand by everything I said. Without him and some other useful idiots Duchatelet would not have been enabled in ruining the club so readily.
He used to wash it with his feet.
The only person that 100% knows why Yann was sold, and on who's advice, and against who's advice is Roland. IMO it's very conceivable that KM, SCP and Yann were all told different stories as to who and why.
Look at the money this idiot shovelled out to players who contributed very little.
The idiot regime Roland bought in with all these faceless coaches having a say in whats what ... any combination of two to decide on what happens? Plenty of wiggle room there for Thomas and his mates to dip in and out of their selected highlights while pointing fingers at each other..
I wished that energy and money was invested in Chris Powell and his team. The consummate pro with 667 games under his belt, 5 England caps and a successful opening into management to boot. For him to be usurped by this lot including the mouthy kid with a computer was an absolute disgrace imo. I wonder if Thomas was embarrassed by his role in this ... although from his demeanour I'd guess not.
Yes Yann leaving was a significant marker but wasn't the reason we got relegated 2 years later.
If Standard had "sold" us Michy Batshuayi, for example, Roland would have ultimately got 3 or 4 times what he did from selling him from Standard.
Ignores all questions that don't fit his pathetic narrative and agenda then puts personal attack against a Charlton fan and ex employee whom has had the clubs best interests at heart.
Shocker.
And there you have it. How difficult is it?
Using stats and data is completely correct ... but not in isolation. You use them to support or undermine your instincts/opinion/advice whatever.
And this is where Driesen was clearly out of his depth. Analytical nerd maybe (and I mean that in a nice way), but with no idea what a decent footballer looks like.
Hence, the 'hit or miss' success rate.