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Q&A with Thomas Sandgaard Thu 3 March - link to meeting notes p9
Comments
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I don't think that TS truly believes break even is possible outside of the Premier League, he would be absolutely barking mad to think otherwise. But on the other side of the coin, if you come in all guns blazing about trying to fix football ownership (and he has spoken at length about Wigan last year & now Derby), it would be silly not to have that as a goal for the club you now own.
In reference to 99/00, I would think (and hope) he understands the nuance of spending a little bit of money to ensure the club can move forward, rather than strictly sticking to 'break even' if we ever got there. I'd suggest the transfer fees he's spent over the last 18 months are perhaps proof that he grasps that nuance.
He has a tendency to over-promise (whether it's "blow the league out of water" or "we're going to break even in League One") and some people don't like it. That's just who he is and I don't expect it to change.4 -
I have a problem with nonsense, wherever it comes from. Any debt he inherited comes from Roland Duchatelet, with the exception of the £7m ex-director loans which don't accrue interest and are not repayable outside the PL. The former board wiped the slate clean as far as any accumulated operating losses were concerned, before the Spivs came along.Callumcafc said:
I can't help but feel you are taking his comments a tad too personally, on others' behalf as well as your own. Perhaps a total misreading but there are plenty of people ready to jump if you tell them to do so. That concerns me if you are to become at odds with the owner of our football club.Airman Brown said:"Whatever those people did", by the way, was rebuild The Valley, treble the crowds and give the club and fans eight years in the Premier League.
I suggest he achieves something himself before he calls them "over the top and irresponsible" and makes claims about the sale to RD - by another party entirely - that doesn't survive basic factual analysis.
I don't believe he's in the business of calling specific people out, that in itself would be bizarre. Trying to step into his shoes for a second, he comes into a business with millions of unsustainable debts on the books - I would immediately believe that business had been mismanaged for a number of years too. He has likely got his timelines all jumbled up but it's an honest mistake rather than an attempt to rubbish the club's success of the 90s and early 2000s.
We can argue about whether the business was mismanaged, when and by whom, but again Duchatelet did not inherit any significant debt. His purchase price was used to pay off the losses (borrowing) the Spivs had run up. He left it on the books but that was what he paid for the ground, if you like. All the debt that Duchatelet had in 2020 was his own creation, the non-repayable £7m ex-director loans apart. Then Thomas tells us that Duchatelet improved the club's finances. He ran a net operating loss of £70m and a bottom line loss of more than £40m (after player trading). People will swallow this bullshit unless it is called out and therefore it will be called out.
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Fair response. I hope Thomas takes it on board.Airman Brown said:
I have a problem with nonsense, wherever it comes from. Any debt he inherited comes from Roland Duchatelet, with the exception of the £7m ex-director loans which don't accrue interest and are not repayable outside the PL. The former board wiped the slate clean as far as any accumulated operating losses were concerned, before the Spivs came along.Callumcafc said:
I can't help but feel you are taking his comments a tad too personally, on others' behalf as well as your own. Perhaps a total misreading but there are plenty of people ready to jump if you tell them to do so. That concerns me if you are to become at odds with the owner of our football club.Airman Brown said:"Whatever those people did", by the way, was rebuild The Valley, treble the crowds and give the club and fans eight years in the Premier League.
I suggest he achieves something himself before he calls them "over the top and irresponsible" and makes claims about the sale to RD - by another party entirely - that doesn't survive basic factual analysis.
I don't believe he's in the business of calling specific people out, that in itself would be bizarre. Trying to step into his shoes for a second, he comes into a business with millions of unsustainable debts on the books - I would immediately believe that business had been mismanaged for a number of years too. He has likely got his timelines all jumbled up but it's an honest mistake rather than an attempt to rubbish the club's success of the 90s and early 2000s.
We can argue about whether the business was mismanaged, when and by whom, but again Duchatelet did not inherit any significant debt. His purchase price was used to pay off the losses the Spivs had run up. He left it on the books but that it was he paid for the ground, if you like. All the debt that Duchatelet had in 2020 was his own creation, the non-repayable £7m ex-director loans apart. Then Thomas tells us that Duchatelet improved the club's finances. People will swallow this bullshit unless it is called out and therefore it will be called out.14 -
Well said! He can’t just rewrite history to suit his narrative and the use of the Derby comparison was also misleading & careless.
He was noticeably rattled and annoyed when he was called out on the detail so maybe he new he was being loose with the truth all along4 -
Agreed.
If he had had compelling evidence for his narrative he could have calmly and forcefully restated it. The fact that he quickly became tetchy and wanted to change the subject implied that it was an empty narrative that couldn't be defended.
He didn't inspire confidence by acting that way10 -
Lol, don’t hold your breathCallumcafc said:
Fair response. I hope Thomas takes it on board.Airman Brown said:
I have a problem with nonsense, wherever it comes from. Any debt he inherited comes from Roland Duchatelet, with the exception of the £7m ex-director loans which don't accrue interest and are not repayable outside the PL. The former board wiped the slate clean as far as any accumulated operating losses were concerned, before the Spivs came along.Callumcafc said:
I can't help but feel you are taking his comments a tad too personally, on others' behalf as well as your own. Perhaps a total misreading but there are plenty of people ready to jump if you tell them to do so. That concerns me if you are to become at odds with the owner of our football club.Airman Brown said:"Whatever those people did", by the way, was rebuild The Valley, treble the crowds and give the club and fans eight years in the Premier League.
I suggest he achieves something himself before he calls them "over the top and irresponsible" and makes claims about the sale to RD - by another party entirely - that doesn't survive basic factual analysis.
I don't believe he's in the business of calling specific people out, that in itself would be bizarre. Trying to step into his shoes for a second, he comes into a business with millions of unsustainable debts on the books - I would immediately believe that business had been mismanaged for a number of years too. He has likely got his timelines all jumbled up but it's an honest mistake rather than an attempt to rubbish the club's success of the 90s and early 2000s.
We can argue about whether the business was mismanaged, when and by whom, but again Duchatelet did not inherit any significant debt. His purchase price was used to pay off the losses the Spivs had run up. He left it on the books but that it was he paid for the ground, if you like. All the debt that Duchatelet had in 2020 was his own creation, the non-repayable £7m ex-director loans apart. Then Thomas tells us that Duchatelet improved the club's finances. People will swallow this bullshit unless it is called out and therefore it will be called out.0 -
I really do not understand what TS aims to achieve by promoting this narrative either. Of course fans (and any remaining staff) look back positively to a time when we were competitive in the top division, not struggling in tier three.It’s one of the things which struck me most when Powell came in as manager - in his mind Charlton were / are a Premier League club as that’s what he knew as a player. Jacko, like most fans, probably feels deep down that we’re a tier two club (or at least competing at the top of tier three) as that’s predominantly his experience.With no disrespect to Skiverton, I do wonder where we are setting our sights when we are meant to jump for joy at recruiting a coach who has been at Yeovil for 20+ years.17
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I entirely agree that what he said was not true.
My point is that I agree with his words that "we are definitely not going to be another Derby", because neither do I want us to be run like Derby.
I'll leave it there.5 -
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The above came up on CAST Twitter, without wanting to raise alarm @Covered End.3
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Yes, I think (know) he's deluded and I'm not optimistic that he'll get us to The Championship, let alone The Premier League.0
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He’s just a Danish/American Matt Southall, loves the attention.3
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I do think this is harsh to summarise on Skiverton, think he is by far the smallest problem at the club being the only experienced coach, Jacko would have appointed him anyway not Sandgaard.Weegie Addick said:I really do not understand what TS aims to achieve by promoting this narrative either. Of course fans (and any remaining staff) look back positively to a time when we were competitive in the top division, not struggling in tier three.It’s one of the things which struck me most when Powell came in as manager - in his mind Charlton were / are a Premier League club as that’s what he knew as a player. Jacko, like most fans, probably feels deep down that we’re a tier two club (or at least competing at the top of tier three) as that’s predominantly his experience.With no disrespect to Skiverton, I do wonder where we are setting our sights when we are meant to jump for joy at recruiting a coach who has been at Yeovil for 20+ years.
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I am not calling out Skiverton as I have no idea what he is or isn’t contributing. My point is more about perception and realistic ambition.5
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TS doesn’t own the stadium or training ground and let’s not kid ourselves he will never dip into his pocket and buy it, all he owns is a useless team, he talks too much & loves the limelight, this club will never reach the Championship with him at the helm, we’re destined to be a Portsmouth & Sunderland but with larger debts.
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Of course Jackson did score in the Prem at the Valley, unfortunately it was against us for Spurs.Weegie Addick said:I really do not understand what TS aims to achieve by promoting this narrative either. Of course fans (and any remaining staff) look back positively to a time when we were competitive in the top division, not struggling in tier three.It’s one of the things which struck me most when Powell came in as manager - in his mind Charlton were / are a Premier League club as that’s what he knew as a player. Jacko, like most fans, probably feels deep down that we’re a tier two club (or at least competing at the top of tier three) as that’s predominantly his experience.With no disrespect to Skiverton, I do wonder where we are setting our sights when we are meant to jump for joy at recruiting a coach who has been at Yeovil for 20+ years.
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When do we start the protests? We should be trying to get him to sell now by the sounds of it.SheedyCAFC said:TS doesn’t own the stadium or training ground and let’s not kid ourselves he will never dip into his pocket and buy it, all he owns is a useless team, he talks too much & loves the limelight, this club will never reach the Championship with him at the helm, we’re destined to be a Portsmouth & Sunderland but with larger debts.
I do wonder if half this negativity will wilt away as soon as we pick up some points.2 -
Wouldn't want to compare that piece of excrement Southall with anyone, but you're right about the attention aspect.SheedyCAFC said:He’s just a Danish/American Matt Southall, loves the attention.1 -
Just curious when and how Sandgaard will seek to exit this self-indulgent and very expensive ego trip which is currently only heading in one direction.
He could just have bought his son a Playstation or an X-Box like any normal father and saved himself a lot of money, stress and abuse.
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It would be good to find out. How many have we lost in a row, in the third division?Callumcafc said:
When do we start the protests? We should be trying to get him to sell now by the sounds of it.SheedyCAFC said:TS doesn’t own the stadium or training ground and let’s not kid ourselves he will never dip into his pocket and buy it, all he owns is a useless team, he talks too much & loves the limelight, this club will never reach the Championship with him at the helm, we’re destined to be a Portsmouth & Sunderland but with larger debts.
I do wonder if half this negativity will wilt away as soon as we pick up some points.0 - Sponsored links:
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The losses don’t help but they are symptomatic of poor decision making in general.
It’s ok to make mistakes but you need to learn from them.
Sandgaard clearly isn’t nor does he seem willing to listen to anyone with better knowledge and experience in the various aspects of running a league football club.
He’s managed to lose a lot of respect and credibility in the space of two days this week.
That’s from the people that he purports matter most to him and the club, namely the fans.
His actions and utterances are telling a different story!4 -
The narrative TS is trying to promote is economy I guess, and I think he’d get a fair bit of support for bringing some financial security and a long term plan, but the commentary around it seems to be way off at least with reference to pre the spivs and perhaps he’s concerned not to fall out with RD.
Also the reason RD was able to sell the club for £1 is it has no assets (and or effectively £40-50m debt if that were to change) and of course big operating losses.
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Theres a ton of bullshit on this thread but this comment really takes the biscuit.grumpyaddick said:
Increasingly, I am failing to see any appreciable difference between Thomas and son Martin versus Roland and niece Katrien.
Try having a look back at what was said by Roland at his regular Q&A updates.24 -
Agreed but in fairness most of this forum (and myself included) were pretty happy when Kirk signed and big things were expected. I don't recall much fuss made at all when Dobson signed.killerandflash said:It's hard to see last summer's recruitment as a triumph of building for the future when
- Charlie Kirk, who got loaned out after a few months was given a 4 year contract
- George Dobson (who Thomas was praising as someone who could go all the way) was given a 2 year contract
Obviously Kirk was a huge flop and Dobson has been great but that's football, and it's not something i think we can blame the recruitment team for.4 -
Threads reactions to TS here and on Twitter are hilarious. So much subtle hostility to a bloke who is already at a massive loss and ticks most of the boxes we all wanted from a new owner.The reality is, the majority of us are mini glory hunters and if we were top of the table no one would give a donkeys what he is doing with free tickets and his business ventures outside of Charlton.It’s actually miserable reading twitter and here, I don’t blame him for losing his character a bit, I would already be considering selling the club if I was in his shoes35
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Things could look very different next season if recruitment works out and we sign that special player or two that lifts the team up a level.Braziliance said:Threads reactions to TS here and on Twitter are hilarious. So much subtle hostility to a bloke who is already at a massive loss and ticks most of the boxes we all wanted from a new owner.The reality is, the majority of us are mini glory hunters and if we were top of the table no one would give a donkeys what he is doing with free tickets and his business ventures outside of Charlton.It’s actually miserable reading twitter and here, I don’t blame him for losing his character a bit, I would already be considering selling the club if I was in his shoesPowell’s team wouldn’t have won the league without Yann and Bowyer’s wouldn’t have been promoted without Taylor. They had plenty of other good players but those two made a huge difference.
This year we missed out on those type of signings. Fraser could be one but no one else in this squad currently improves the team in the way Yann and Taylor did.
Get results and the other issues are learnt from and don’t get the attention they do now.5 -
The £100m loss pre-RD doesn’t stack up however you look at the post-1992 numbers and whether it’s operating or actual loss. My best guess is that he’s adding Roland’s losses in, which of course makes no sense of the argument that’s why it was sold to him.razil said:The narrative TS is trying to promote is economy I guess, and I think he’d get a fair bit of support for bringing some financial security and a long term plan, but the commentary around it seems to be way off at least with reference to pre the spivs and perhaps he’s concerned not to fall out with RD.
Also the reason RD was able to sell the club for £1 is it has no assets (and or effectively £40-50m debt if that were to change) and of course big operating losses.
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Indeed framing it this way a diversion of sorts, isn’t the biggest cost problem in football at this level player wages due to the large jumps in tv money between the leagues. This dictates you are going to have heavy losses to compete which can only be made up but doing very astute business on the playing side, or having very deep pockets.
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balham red said:
Agree, many are like spoilt ungrateful children.Major said:The sense of entitlement and self importance and self proceed expertise has proved to be mind boggling.
I'm referring to some posts on here. Not Thomas, of course. He's shelling out millions and millions, which gives him a bit more say that someone buying a bloody ticket.
The claims he's making terrible decisions because he's got no football experience, judged by people with... no football experience.
You're missing the point. Those 'judging' may have no football experience, but if they bought the club, would they try to do it all themselves? 99% wouldn't.
As for the spoilt and ungrateful children analogy, from 2007 we've received two presents in two promotions from the 3rd division getting us back to where we were when we were born. Meanwhile those other children in smaller houses, smaller gardens, and less money get to go on holiday, have birthday parties etc. We're now in a huge but empty house with parents who've spent all the money on booze and fags. At 15 years old, we're facing a education-less future, and no chance of being property owners.
If the parents continue to be as ignorant and arrogant then the house will be repossessed and we'll be homeless. Wouldn't such children have reason to question their parents' management?
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Get results and all the other problems just disappear. Having his son involved will suddenly become ‘admirable’, wanting to do things his own way will be ‘courageous’ etc. it happens year in, year out on this forum. Win some games everything is amazing, start losing & we start doing research outside of football.Scoham said:
Things could look very different next season if recruitment works out and we sign that special player or two that lifts the team up a level.Braziliance said:Threads reactions to TS here and on Twitter are hilarious. So much subtle hostility to a bloke who is already at a massive loss and ticks most of the boxes we all wanted from a new owner.The reality is, the majority of us are mini glory hunters and if we were top of the table no one would give a donkeys what he is doing with free tickets and his business ventures outside of Charlton.It’s actually miserable reading twitter and here, I don’t blame him for losing his character a bit, I would already be considering selling the club if I was in his shoesPowell’s team wouldn’t have won the league without Yann and Bowyer’s wouldn’t have been promoted without Taylor. They had plenty of other good players but those two made a huge difference.
This year we missed out on those type of signings. Fraser could be one but no one else in this squad currently improves the team in the way Yann and Taylor did.
Get results and the other issues are learnt from and don’t get the attention they do now.We have a bang average squad, especially for the formation we play. We have a very inexperienced manager (not up for it imo). Usually with those two things combined you won’t be a very good team. I don’t blame TS for either of those problems4
