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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)
Comments
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It’s Sammy Snakeshirty5 said:
It’s inflatable flith, that’s what it iscarly burn said:
The family activity zone does have pheonix nights feel about it.Scoham said:TS being interviewed on the pitch tomorrow.
https://www.charltonafc.com/news/eight-things-do-derby-clash
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I have to say that trying to compare TS with some theoretical secret investor who definitely would have spent all the money in the world to get us into the Premier League (although they never even spoke to RD) is not a comparison that any owner is ever going to be able to live up to. So I am not sure how fair it is.People need to get over this fantasy that a billionaire is is going to sweep in and spend many multiple-millions to get us into the Premier League - it cannot happen. The Championship is awash with men who are perfectly rich enough, but whose failures show that this route is impossible.The one and only way to make sustainable progress is to run a tight ship, sell players at a profit and invest in new ones, and maximise the revenues that are in your gift to affect.Is tripling revenue a very high target? Yes! But our ground is half empty most weeks, so that could, in theory, be doubled and if that happened it would no doubt bring wider revenue streams.This is something that TS can, at least in theory, reliably affect so it is what he needs to target his business on. Getting promoted is not.4
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Apparently a bumper crowd is expected tomorrow. What counts as a bumper crowd these days?0
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Who is hounding anyone? As far as I know there's no talk of protests or action unless it's on the very edge of the lunatic fringe who can be safely ignored.paulfox said:Would we be in danger of hounding out another owner? And regretting it? Rightfully the action was taken against RD, The same people now are having doubts about TS, who appears to be a different type of person. If he was, who do people expect to pick up the mantle. Feels like we are going around in circles. Any people with doubts need to be 100% sure and have facts that this guy isn’t for us, otherwise it’s just unhelpful noise and maybe let him try and get things right. I don’t care if it’s TS or anyone else as long as the club on and off the pitch are in the right place.
Expressing doubts and concerns is another thing entirely and frankly I see it as understable given (relatively) recent events.14 -
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Over 7300 season ticket holderssuperclive98 said:Apparently a bumper crowd is expected tomorrow. What counts as a bumper crowd these days?
Over 3000 Derby fans
500 Community Trust tickets
Plus how many matchday sales
14000 max imo3 -
Bumper it is then!shirty5 said:
Over 7300 season ticket holderssuperclive98 said:Apparently a bumper crowd is expected tomorrow. What counts as a bumper crowd these days?
Over 3000 Derby fans
500 Community Trust tickets
Plus how many matchday sales
14000 max imo2 -
Why? It's still the same bullet isn't it?Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:I wonder whether Barclay and the secret billionaire are now thinking they dodged a bullet.
If they'd struck a deal on their terms and not Duchatelets they would have done the deal and taken their own path0 -
Bumper doesn’t signify a number it signifies Thomas is visiting.0
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Yeh, my fingers are outrunning my brain this morningcarly burn said:
Why? It's still the same bullet isn't it?Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:I wonder whether Barclay and the secret billionaire are now thinking they dodged a bullet.
If they'd struck a deal on their terms and not Duchatelets they would have done the deal and taken their own path0 - Sponsored links:
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And the music is going to be louder than normal.EugenesAxe said:Bumper doesn’t signify a number it signifies Thomas is visiting.0 -
Did I say anyone was hounding out?, I’ve asked a hypothetical question. No need to turn it into a bitch.thenewbie said:
Who is hounding anyone? As far as I know there's no talk of protests or action unless it's on the very edge of the lunatic fringe who can be safely ignored.paulfox said:Would we be in danger of hounding out another owner? And regretting it? Rightfully the action was taken against RD, The same people now are having doubts about TS, who appears to be a different type of person. If he was, who do people expect to pick up the mantle. Feels like we are going around in circles. Any people with doubts need to be 100% sure and have facts that this guy isn’t for us, otherwise it’s just unhelpful noise and maybe let him try and get things right. I don’t care if it’s TS or anyone else as long as the club on and off the pitch are in the right place.
Expressing doubts and concerns is another thing entirely and frankly I see it as understable given (relatively) recent events.0 -
Scoham said:TS being interviewed on the pitch tomorrow.
https://www.charltonafc.com/news/eight-things-do-derby-clash
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I wouldn't say RD was actually driven out. It's ironic to use that term when he's still our overlord, this site a reminder he's still with us, the 'Roland Out Forever!' still appearing at the foot of every page.paulfox said:
Did I say anyone was hounding out?, I’ve asked a hypothetical question. No need to turn it into a bitch.thenewbie said:
Who is hounding anyone? As far as I know there's no talk of protests or action unless it's on the very edge of the lunatic fringe who can be safely ignored.paulfox said:Would we be in danger of hounding out another owner? And regretting it? Rightfully the action was taken against RD, The same people now are having doubts about TS, who appears to be a different type of person. If he was, who do people expect to pick up the mantle. Feels like we are going around in circles. Any people with doubts need to be 100% sure and have facts that this guy isn’t for us, otherwise it’s just unhelpful noise and maybe let him try and get things right. I don’t care if it’s TS or anyone else as long as the club on and off the pitch are in the right place.
Expressing doubts and concerns is another thing entirely and frankly I see it as understable given (relatively) recent events.
He sold the football operating side of the business because he was hemorrhaging money from it, the level of the losses influenced by fan action, which angered him but served mainly as an outlet for fans to vent their frustrations, which was a good thing for individuals mental health and helped raised public awareness of our plight.
I'm certainly not going to lose sleep wondering whether I did the right thing making my views about RD clear. He wanted out from the moment he realised his cunning plan to beat the system had failed. The profit and loss account told him that, not me or you. That's why he started running it on a shoestring budget whilst selling.
All owners of Clubs outside the Prem find it hard to operate at break even, the way they are run determining the scale of the losses. That's why the EFL require proof of funds to sustain their Club's year on year.
I expect that TS similarly has an exit strategy based on success or failure of his five year plan.
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Yes, we would be in danger of "hounding him out" if we were protesting or anything similar. Having doubts, questioning some of his decision making and criticising some of his actions is miles away from anything like hounding him out. Sandgaard is not being treated like Roland was (rightfully so). From what I can see/read, 95% of fans are more than happy to give him the opportunity to get things right, but that doesn't mean they can't have an opinion does it?paulfox said:Would we be in danger of hounding out another owner? And regretting it? Rightfully the action was taken against RD, The same people now are having doubts about TS, who appears to be a different type of person. If he was, who do people expect to pick up the mantle. Feels like we are going around in circles. Any people with doubts need to be 100% sure and have facts that this guy isn’t for us, otherwise it’s just unhelpful noise and maybe let him try and get things right. I don’t care if it’s TS or anyone else as long as the club on and off the pitch are in the right place.10 -
shirty5 said:
Over 7300 season ticket holderssuperclive98 said:Apparently a bumper crowd is expected tomorrow. What counts as a bumper crowd these days?
Over 3000 Derby fans
500 Community Trust tickets
Plus how many day-before-matchday sales
14000 max imo
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No not at all, but those people also need to respect others opinion and not try and shut them up if they disagree.Seems to be a lot of doubt and moaning if 95% are happy though. We are never going to have the perfect owner so sometimes better the devil you know.cafcfan1990 said:
Yes, we would be in danger of "hounding him out" if we were protesting or anything similar. Having doubts, questioning some of his decision making and criticising some of his actions is miles away from anything like hounding him out. Sandgaard is not being treated like Roland was (rightfully so). From what I can see/read, 95% of fans are more than happy to give him the opportunity to get things right, but that doesn't mean they can't have an opinion does it?paulfox said:Would we be in danger of hounding out another owner? And regretting it? Rightfully the action was taken against RD, The same people now are having doubts about TS, who appears to be a different type of person. If he was, who do people expect to pick up the mantle. Feels like we are going around in circles. Any people with doubts need to be 100% sure and have facts that this guy isn’t for us, otherwise it’s just unhelpful noise and maybe let him try and get things right. I don’t care if it’s TS or anyone else as long as the club on and off the pitch are in the right place.1 -
cabbles said:Be interesting to see RD’s age and how that plays a factor.
Not suggesting he’s close to leaving this world, but at 75, this may also have an impact for whoever is owner in a few years
He'll pass it down to his boy.
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True but that’s because they didn’t see it as a sensible thing to do, rather than they couldn’t. I don’t think it’s sniping to recognise that the club still has a big structural problem.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Absolutely, but when people are constantly sniping, I think it’s worth remembering no one else was willing to do what TS did.thenewbie said:
It doesn't really matter if it was or wasn't his doing, he's the one who has to try and deal with it now. And if he doesn't, there is trouble ahead.Stu_of_Kunming said:
But that’s not a problem of his doing, is it, it’s down to RD, The Spivs and to a point Murray and co.Airman Brown said:
For now, but based on the false assumption which he keeps repeating for a reason: that he can triple the revenue and sell the ground out in L1 and, as he has also said, win promotion from the Championship without competing on wages. Whether he has the appetite or the ability to put in £50m or £100m to try to get there, we’ll see.Stu_of_Kunming said:
He owns and is bankrolling the club, something no one else was able and or willing to do, even the secret silent billionaires.Airman Brown said:
The problem with that for me is that TS doesn’t own anything at Charlton that is worth any money. The only way that changes as far as I can see is by getting to the PL.AndyG said:
Bloody hell something we agree on mate 😉Airman Brown said:
That’s why ultimately I think it will be resolved, but not by TS whose approach is based on a complete misreading of the commercial opportunities outside the PL.AndyG said:We all know that RD over values the club but if you look at things in a different way to normal life and more from the crazy world of football.
If someone has crazy wealth and wants to buy a football club that meets all the requirements of being a top premiership club with enough investment from aforementioned wealth them £50m is a drop in the ocean. It isnt even the cost of a decent premiership player. There are a handful of clubs in lower leagues that meet that criteria and I would argue that we are one of them.
I'm not saying RD's valuation is anywhere near correct but I'm not in the category of people that have crazy wealth obviously. If I was then £50m shouldn't be a major hurdle in the world of football ownership
Ofcourse you are correct with the best will in the world TS doesnt have the money to get us anywhere near. But I do think we owe the man as he stepped in a dealt with the crooks and RD when nobody else would or was able. I see him as a holding owner to hopefully sort the shite out and then sell whilst making himself a nice few quid with my blessing
I agree, he is the owner we have and there is no point endlessly going over alternative scenarios any more than revisiting 2006. But it is important to understand why he is the owner - because like ESI he would rent the ground - and that this puts the club is a weak position going forward, even though it has removed the immediate threat of Southall, Farnell and co, which is clearly a good thing.No one else other than ESI would buy the club without the ground. That is still the case and means that unless Sandgaard turns water into wine, which I doubt he can, we still have.a problem. There is no value in the business.3 -
Up to a point, but he is the one removing senior staff because they tell him the truth about it.Chunes said:
But this is an assumption in itself. Just because he wants to sell out the ground and wants to triple the revenue doesn't mean his ownership is contingent on doing it.Airman Brown said:
For now, but based on the false assumption which he keeps repeating for a reason: that he can triple the revenue and sell the ground out in L1 and, as he has also said, win promotion from the Championship without competing on wages. Whether he has the appetite or the ability to put in £50m or £100m to try to get there, we’ll see.Stu_of_Kunming said:
He owns and is bankrolling the club, something no one else was able and or willing to do, even the secret silent billionaires.Airman Brown said:
The problem with that for me is that TS doesn’t own anything at Charlton that is worth any money. The only way that changes as far as I can see is by getting to the PL.AndyG said:
Bloody hell something we agree on mate 😉Airman Brown said:
That’s why ultimately I think it will be resolved, but not by TS whose approach is based on a complete misreading of the commercial opportunities outside the PL.AndyG said:We all know that RD over values the club but if you look at things in a different way to normal life and more from the crazy world of football.
If someone has crazy wealth and wants to buy a football club that meets all the requirements of being a top premiership club with enough investment from aforementioned wealth them £50m is a drop in the ocean. It isnt even the cost of a decent premiership player. There are a handful of clubs in lower leagues that meet that criteria and I would argue that we are one of them.
I'm not saying RD's valuation is anywhere near correct but I'm not in the category of people that have crazy wealth obviously. If I was then £50m shouldn't be a major hurdle in the world of football ownership
Ofcourse you are correct with the best will in the world TS doesnt have the money to get us anywhere near. But I do think we owe the man as he stepped in a dealt with the crooks and RD when nobody else would or was able. I see him as a holding owner to hopefully sort the shite out and then sell whilst making himself a nice few quid with my blessing5 - Sponsored links:
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15-16,000 I reckonshirty5 said:
Over 7300 season ticket holderssuperclive98 said:Apparently a bumper crowd is expected tomorrow. What counts as a bumper crowd these days?
Over 3000 Derby fans
500 Community Trust tickets
Plus how many matchday sales
14000 max imo0 -
Might be a stretch. I think this will be the biggest crowd for several months, unless there are promotions.DOUCHER said:
15-16,000 I reckonshirty5 said:
Over 7300 season ticket holderssuperclive98 said:Apparently a bumper crowd is expected tomorrow. What counts as a bumper crowd these days?
Over 3000 Derby fans
500 Community Trust tickets
Plus how many matchday sales
14000 max imo
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More likely the very final couple of games at home if we are in the promotion (or are being promoted) mix. I think 2018/19 it was only really the final couple of games that saw a boost, and the was only to 12k from 10ish-k and below earlier in the season. Playing Rochdale and Scunthorpe in those final two games that season also meant very low away support though (back to back 4 nil wins).Airman Brown said:
Might be a stretch. I think this will be the biggest crowd for several months, unless there are promotions.DOUCHER said:
15-16,000 I reckonshirty5 said:
Over 7300 season ticket holderssuperclive98 said:Apparently a bumper crowd is expected tomorrow. What counts as a bumper crowd these days?
Over 3000 Derby fans
500 Community Trust tickets
Plus how many matchday sales
14000 max imo0 -
If we are doing well we will get good crowds. If it is more of the same dross we won't.5
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What does that prove? Possibly that he's an arrogant hothead, or maybe even an arsehole, or just that he wants people who buy into what he's trying to do, what it doesn't prove is that his ownership is contingent on tripling the revenue.Airman Brown said:
Up to a point, but he is the one removing senior staff because they tell him the truth about it.Chunes said:
But this is an assumption in itself. Just because he wants to sell out the ground and wants to triple the revenue doesn't mean his ownership is contingent on doing it.Airman Brown said:
For now, but based on the false assumption which he keeps repeating for a reason: that he can triple the revenue and sell the ground out in L1 and, as he has also said, win promotion from the Championship without competing on wages. Whether he has the appetite or the ability to put in £50m or £100m to try to get there, we’ll see.Stu_of_Kunming said:
He owns and is bankrolling the club, something no one else was able and or willing to do, even the secret silent billionaires.Airman Brown said:
The problem with that for me is that TS doesn’t own anything at Charlton that is worth any money. The only way that changes as far as I can see is by getting to the PL.AndyG said:
Bloody hell something we agree on mate 😉Airman Brown said:
That’s why ultimately I think it will be resolved, but not by TS whose approach is based on a complete misreading of the commercial opportunities outside the PL.AndyG said:We all know that RD over values the club but if you look at things in a different way to normal life and more from the crazy world of football.
If someone has crazy wealth and wants to buy a football club that meets all the requirements of being a top premiership club with enough investment from aforementioned wealth them £50m is a drop in the ocean. It isnt even the cost of a decent premiership player. There are a handful of clubs in lower leagues that meet that criteria and I would argue that we are one of them.
I'm not saying RD's valuation is anywhere near correct but I'm not in the category of people that have crazy wealth obviously. If I was then £50m shouldn't be a major hurdle in the world of football ownership
Ofcourse you are correct with the best will in the world TS doesnt have the money to get us anywhere near. But I do think we owe the man as he stepped in a dealt with the crooks and RD when nobody else would or was able. I see him as a holding owner to hopefully sort the shite out and then sell whilst making himself a nice few quid with my blessing2 -
I doubt he needs to triple it, even though apparently it’s a puzzle why no one has done it before, but he does want to break even (who wouldn’t?). I don’t think he has the appetite for putting in £6m-£8m year after year, but of course he may be another gambler who can’t leave the table. Then again Murray had tasted success.Chunes said:
What does that prove? Possibly that he's an arrogant hothead, or maybe even an arsehole, or just that he wants people who buy into what he's trying to do, what it doesn't prove is that his ownership is contingent on tripling the revenue.Airman Brown said:
Up to a point, but he is the one removing senior staff because they tell him the truth about it.Chunes said:
But this is an assumption in itself. Just because he wants to sell out the ground and wants to triple the revenue doesn't mean his ownership is contingent on doing it.Airman Brown said:
For now, but based on the false assumption which he keeps repeating for a reason: that he can triple the revenue and sell the ground out in L1 and, as he has also said, win promotion from the Championship without competing on wages. Whether he has the appetite or the ability to put in £50m or £100m to try to get there, we’ll see.Stu_of_Kunming said:
He owns and is bankrolling the club, something no one else was able and or willing to do, even the secret silent billionaires.Airman Brown said:
The problem with that for me is that TS doesn’t own anything at Charlton that is worth any money. The only way that changes as far as I can see is by getting to the PL.AndyG said:
Bloody hell something we agree on mate 😉Airman Brown said:
That’s why ultimately I think it will be resolved, but not by TS whose approach is based on a complete misreading of the commercial opportunities outside the PL.AndyG said:We all know that RD over values the club but if you look at things in a different way to normal life and more from the crazy world of football.
If someone has crazy wealth and wants to buy a football club that meets all the requirements of being a top premiership club with enough investment from aforementioned wealth them £50m is a drop in the ocean. It isnt even the cost of a decent premiership player. There are a handful of clubs in lower leagues that meet that criteria and I would argue that we are one of them.
I'm not saying RD's valuation is anywhere near correct but I'm not in the category of people that have crazy wealth obviously. If I was then £50m shouldn't be a major hurdle in the world of football ownership
Ofcourse you are correct with the best will in the world TS doesnt have the money to get us anywhere near. But I do think we owe the man as he stepped in a dealt with the crooks and RD when nobody else would or was able. I see him as a holding owner to hopefully sort the shite out and then sell whilst making himself a nice few quid with my blessing2 -
I have read all the recent comments with interest but my mind remains the same as it did before I read them. RD was and still is the problem and the ongoing structural problems are purely down to his stubborness. There were obviously interested parties (Aussies/Barclay etc) who wanted everything lock, stock and barrel but it didn't happen because RD wouldn't talk, changed the goalposts and kept with his overinflated valuation. It was perfect for him to get rid of the operating losses and lease the ground and he eventually ends up with TS who got rid of penniless ESi and puts RD in a decent but not perfect position.
From a fans point of view TS did save the club and I am not sure what other option we had apart from administration but most could see through his "blow the league away" comment and realised that his 5 year plan was pretty much pie in the sky. We also know that as far as football owners go he isn't that wealthy and that he was going to lose millions but some still hold him to his overly optimistic comments.
Nobody knows what the future holds but I don't see a white knight in shining armour arriving anytime soon and even if that happens it will still be reliant on RD playing ball. I can understand the frustration some have with TS and the way he operates but I always remember it wasn't him who separated the club from its assets, what he did was give us a way out of a really nasty situation.
Finally, re the discussion on "hounding him out", whilst I don't believe that is happening the momentum against him will rise, and quickly if we don't succeed on the pitch, and if that doesn't happen I would not write off protests in the near future.2 -
Personally I would neither support nor participate in protests against TS. While I don’t think he’s on the right track, I don’t question his intentions.Clarky said:I have read all the recent comments with interest but my mind remains the same as it did before I read them. RD was and still is the problem and the ongoing structural problems are purely down to his stubborness. There were obviously interested parties (Aussies/Barclay etc) who wanted everything lock, stock and barrel but it didn't happen because RD wouldn't talk, changed the goalposts and kept with his overinflated valuation. It was perfect for him to get rid of the operating losses and lease the ground and he eventually ends up with TS who got rid of penniless ESi and puts RD in a decent but not perfect position.
From a fans point of view TS did save the club and I am not sure what other option we had apart from administration but most could see through his "blow the league away" comment and realised that his 5 year plan was pretty much pie in the sky. We also know that as far as football owners go he isn't that wealthy and that he was going to lose millions but some still hold him to his overly optimistic comments.
Nobody knows what the future holds but I don't see a white knight in shining armour arriving anytime soon and even if that happens it will still be reliant on RD playing ball. I can understand the frustration some have with TS and the way he operates but I always remember it wasn't him who separated the club from its assets, what he did was give us a way out of a really nasty situation.
Finally, re the discussion on "hounding him out", whilst I don't believe that is happening the momentum against him will rise, and quickly if we don't succeed on the pitch, and if that doesn't happen I would not write off protests in the near future.45 -
This is what a lot of people including myself will welcome hearing from you AIRMAN, as I’ve said in the past and you know it, when you throw doubts into the pot people react, and not always in the most favourable way. Hopefully he does get things on the right track and we will all be singing from the same sheet.👍. Admittedly having the best intentions isn’t a given that things will work, but it’s a start.Airman Brown said:
Personally I would neither support nor participate in protests against TS. While I don’t think he’s on the right track, I don’t question his intentions.Clarky said:I have read all the recent comments with interest but my mind remains the same as it did before I read them. RD was and still is the problem and the ongoing structural problems are purely down to his stubborness. There were obviously interested parties (Aussies/Barclay etc) who wanted everything lock, stock and barrel but it didn't happen because RD wouldn't talk, changed the goalposts and kept with his overinflated valuation. It was perfect for him to get rid of the operating losses and lease the ground and he eventually ends up with TS who got rid of penniless ESi and puts RD in a decent but not perfect position.
From a fans point of view TS did save the club and I am not sure what other option we had apart from administration but most could see through his "blow the league away" comment and realised that his 5 year plan was pretty much pie in the sky. We also know that as far as football owners go he isn't that wealthy and that he was going to lose millions but some still hold him to his overly optimistic comments.
Nobody knows what the future holds but I don't see a white knight in shining armour arriving anytime soon and even if that happens it will still be reliant on RD playing ball. I can understand the frustration some have with TS and the way he operates but I always remember it wasn't him who separated the club from its assets, what he did was give us a way out of a really nasty situation.
Finally, re the discussion on "hounding him out", whilst I don't believe that is happening the momentum against him will rise, and quickly if we don't succeed on the pitch, and if that doesn't happen I would not write off protests in the near future.2 -
I haven't seen anybody propose protests. What some are doing is to point out flaws in his plan as they see them.15
