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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)
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My DIY skills have been improving at a rapid rate at home of late.LargeAddick said:I now have proof TS is potless. One of the bog doors in the first toilets in the East Stand has been missing a lock for the second season now. How much would that be to repair? And if only we had someone in charge of such things.
Managed to fix three door handles, and a window handle at home of late, so next time I'm down the Valley... I'm ya man!!1 -
If it were at The New Den it would have been fixed by now 😁0
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To what extent is Leo Rifkind still involved, if at all?
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Yes.Callumcafc said:To what extent is Leo Rifkind still involved, if at all?
https://www.charltonafc.com/staff
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Yeah, at least once every game.LargeAddick said:If it were at The New Den it would have been fixed by now 😁0 -
It feels like TS finally is seeing League One football and our uphill climb in a clear light and thus I am starting to feel a bit more stable regarding his decision making because of it. What worries me is whether he has the money to continue past this season. When we were originally purchased Zynex stock was $25 and now it is at $9, losing almost 2/3 of it's value. TS' own stock ownership was worth $400M when he bought us. He has been selling shares every year in July ($25M worth in 2020) to likely cover our losses and now only owns 12.62M shares worth about $114M. With CAFC losing $10M+ per year when the owner only has $114M to begin with seems an impossible situation to continue for long, in my opinion. I believe by this time next year we might well have a new owner, especially if a recession is underway and he feels the need to focus on Zynex' survival.
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Lot of assumptions there about TS’ wealth, why he is selling stocks, Zynex’s performance and their future (operating in probably one of the more robust industries during a recession).
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I would say "assuming" most of his net worth is based on his holdings in Zynex is a pretty safe bet. If he made another $100M in some other line of work I've not heard about it. Also, given the fact Zynex is down almost 2/3 in 3 years says a decent amount about it's current state, relatively. EDAP is one of their main competitors and in the same period Zynex has lost 2/3, it has more than doubled. The S&P500 is up 30% in his period of ownership. Being in a favorable industry is not the primer driver of business success. But even if TS has $100M stashed elsewhere (no evidence of this)... losing what CAFC is losing each year by comparison to that total seems unsustainable, in my opinion. I have always felt he simply does not have the cash to get us any better than a yo-yo club between L1 and the Championship. But it's just my opinion and others may vary.WSS said:Lot of assumptions there about TS’ wealth, why he is selling stocks, Zynex’s performance and their future (operating in probably one of the more robust industries during a recession).
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I can't remember how much Roland lost year on year and I know Thomas is going at circa. 10m a year, but his tenure has coincided with a seasons worth of Covid hits and it might not continue at quite that level. I need some expert advice from a resident Airman or other reliable source to contextualise the effect of that because I can't. i.e. Is there a Covid hit estimate (or declared), that can be removed from normal trading operations during the relevant period?
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I do enjoy this idea that someone smart enough to found, build and run a company now listed on NASDAQ is at the same time financially incompetent enough to buy a business that costs more than he can afford to run. And the only people smart enough to point this out to him are us football fans with our calculators and Google searches.NapaAddick said:
I would say "assuming" most of his net worth is based on his holdings in Zynex is a pretty safe bet. If he made another $100M in some other line of work I've not heard about it. Also, given the fact Zynex is down almost 2/3 in 3 years says a decent amount about it's current state, relatively. EDAP is one of their main competitors and in the same period Zynex has lost 2/3, it has more than doubled. The S&P500 is up 30% in his period of ownership. Being in a favorable industry is not the primer driver of business success. But even if TS has $100M stashed elsewhere (no evidence of this)... losing what CAFC is losing each year by comparison to that total seems unsustainable, in my opinion. I have always felt he simply does not have the cash to get us any better than a yo-yo club between L1 and the Championship. But it's just my opinion and others may vary.WSS said:Lot of assumptions there about TS’ wealth, why he is selling stocks, Zynex’s performance and their future (operating in probably one of the more robust industries during a recession).
Don't know about you, but if I was mega rich, my money would be highly diversified. I'm not even rich, and it still is!7 - Sponsored links:
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The $25.98 share price was very short-lived (a week or so in July 2020). On the day the deal went through, Zynex actually stood at $15.18. It looks like the large share sales have been done through the Thomas Sandgaard Holdings Company, rather than his personal holdings (of which he has sold approx $2.7m). There is a separate valuation for the wealth of the Holdings company (c.$160m), but difficult to say how much of that is included in Thomas’ personal wealth.NapaAddick said:It feels like TS finally is seeing League One football and our uphill climb in a clear light and thus I am starting to feel a bit more stable regarding his decision making because of it. What worries me is whether he has the money to continue past this season. When we were originally purchased Zynex stock was $25 and now it is at $9, losing almost 2/3 of it's value. TS' own stock ownership was worth $400M when he bought us. He has been selling shares every year in July ($25M worth in 2020) to likely cover our losses and now only owns 12.62M shares worth about $114M. With CAFC losing $10M+ per year when the owner only has $114M to begin with seems an impossible situation to continue for long, in my opinion. I believe by this time next year we might well have a new owner, especially if a recession is underway and he feels the need to focus on Zynex' survival.
He certainly isn’t rich in terms of major football club owners here in the UK, so either his Premier League dream needs to happen or you are correct, he will need to sell. He won’t be able to, and also shouldn’t, keep pouring £10m a year away.5 -
The thing about Duchatelet was that his business was such that he was able to take dividends of c€40m a year. He could afford his little distractions in football 🤷🏻♂️Chunes said:0 -
My guess is that Thomas thought/thinks he could end up owning 51%, or more, of the the club and the assests, with out putting significant amounts of money in.
I think he had a massive shock when the "football" people told him some home truths early last season.
Hopefully the penny has dropped now but unfortunately he has to turn it around, which is hard, due to a navigational error, that was his doing.
Personally I think we are now on the right course and the good ship Charlton is on an even keel again. Too early to rename her HMS Piss the league though.3 -
Yeah. I was just trying to make the point that we went through this for Roland as well. I think the New York Times did something a while back on net worth estimates and how they're wildly inaccurate.TelMc32 said:
The thing about Duchatelet was that his business was such that he was able to take dividends of c€40m a year. He could afford his little distractions in football 🤷🏻♂️Chunes said:
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He could get others to invest if we got to the Championship. However that would not be easy without the property assets.TelMc32 said:
The $25.98 share price was very short-lived (a week or so in July 2020). On the day the deal went through, Zynex actually stood at $15.18. It looks like the large share sales have been done through the Thomas Sandgaard Holdings Company, rather than his personal holdings (of which he has sold approx $2.7m). There is a separate valuation for the wealth of the Holdings company (c.$160m), but difficult to say how much of that is included in Thomas’ personal wealth.NapaAddick said:It feels like TS finally is seeing League One football and our uphill climb in a clear light and thus I am starting to feel a bit more stable regarding his decision making because of it. What worries me is whether he has the money to continue past this season. When we were originally purchased Zynex stock was $25 and now it is at $9, losing almost 2/3 of it's value. TS' own stock ownership was worth $400M when he bought us. He has been selling shares every year in July ($25M worth in 2020) to likely cover our losses and now only owns 12.62M shares worth about $114M. With CAFC losing $10M+ per year when the owner only has $114M to begin with seems an impossible situation to continue for long, in my opinion. I believe by this time next year we might well have a new owner, especially if a recession is underway and he feels the need to focus on Zynex' survival.
He certainly isn’t rich in terms of major football club owners here in the UK, so either his Premier League dream needs to happen or you are correct, he will need to sell. He won’t be able to, and also shouldn’t, keep pouring £10m a year away.4 -
What a difference a couple of wins makes, especially when the style of football has improved at the same time.Gates will improve along with improved results, as I guess will interest in our players from other clubs. And as will interest from other potential investors, presumably?0
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Without the assets, ground etc he will need to find someone as like minded as him to invest.StrikerFirmani said:
He could get others to invest if we got to the Championship. However that would not be easy without the property assets.TelMc32 said:
The $25.98 share price was very short-lived (a week or so in July 2020). On the day the deal went through, Zynex actually stood at $15.18. It looks like the large share sales have been done through the Thomas Sandgaard Holdings Company, rather than his personal holdings (of which he has sold approx $2.7m). There is a separate valuation for the wealth of the Holdings company (c.$160m), but difficult to say how much of that is included in Thomas’ personal wealth.NapaAddick said:It feels like TS finally is seeing League One football and our uphill climb in a clear light and thus I am starting to feel a bit more stable regarding his decision making because of it. What worries me is whether he has the money to continue past this season. When we were originally purchased Zynex stock was $25 and now it is at $9, losing almost 2/3 of it's value. TS' own stock ownership was worth $400M when he bought us. He has been selling shares every year in July ($25M worth in 2020) to likely cover our losses and now only owns 12.62M shares worth about $114M. With CAFC losing $10M+ per year when the owner only has $114M to begin with seems an impossible situation to continue for long, in my opinion. I believe by this time next year we might well have a new owner, especially if a recession is underway and he feels the need to focus on Zynex' survival.
He certainly isn’t rich in terms of major football club owners here in the UK, so either his Premier League dream needs to happen or you are correct, he will need to sell. He won’t be able to, and also shouldn’t, keep pouring £10m a year away.Promotion will be a help but being stuck in League One for another couple of years will see his funds dwindle more quickly than he anticipated.3 -
Invest: 1.put (money) into financial schemes, shares, property, or a commercial venture with the expectation of achieving a profit .
😂😂😂😂😂3 - Sponsored links:
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Has Thomas come off twitter?, I see his last post was in May. A good thing I think if he has. Just want him to concentrate on moving the whole club forward.0
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Do you not need to be a VAT registered business owner to get into Makros anymore or is Bowyer selling crisps outside Charlton station these days?Scoham said:1 -
must have been back at the Valley today - wouldn't have thought he'd travel from Sevenoaks to Makro's in Charlton - unless they're still doing a range of retro addidas trainers that they don't sell anywhere else in the world - see he's got the Garner look going on as well0
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He might have been meeting someone in Makro's car park12
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Not sure why the Trust didn’t follow up and question TS on the ridiculously expensive tickets for league 1 football when he is talking about focusing on improving match ticket sales? Cutting losses and trying to break even next season doesn’t exactly scream premier league in 5 years…NabySarr said:
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Can you remind me when was the last time he said that was?NabySarr said:
Not sure why the Trust didn’t follow up and question TS on the ridiculously expensive tickets for league 1 football when he is talking about focusing on improving match ticket sales? Cutting losses and trying to break even next season doesn’t exactly scream premier league in 5 years...NabySarr said:
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Here we go again2
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He said last year he’s still as ambitious as he was when he first took overswordfish said:
Can you remind me when was the last time he said that was?NabySarr said:
Not sure why the Trust didn’t follow up and question TS on the ridiculously expensive tickets for league 1 football when he is talking about focusing on improving match ticket sales? Cutting losses and trying to break even next season doesn’t exactly scream premier league in 5 years...NabySarr said:
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