Watching that game yesterday I just realised that we don't have a striker anywhere near as good as Charles, or a defender anywhere near as good as Santos. Our version is Stockley and Lavelle. A bit of a wake-up call as to the strength of our spine.
We've had a number of players off the boil since Cambridge at home. I'd like to see Garner start dropping people now.
Set pieces have been miserable this season.
BG has every right to say what he said but can't imagine it will do the team's confidence much good.
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Post-match Thread: Bolton Wanderers v Charlton Athletic | Sat 3rd Sep 2022 3pm
Comments
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He loves casting himself in the role of lone voiced crusader. Truth is, most of the rest of us can't be as arsed to state the obvious... again...and again...and again...and pretend we were the only one saying, or thinking it.robinofottershaw said:
You should note from the number of Likes to your post that a number on here don’t disagree with you.golfaddick said:PWR.
Not at game nor did I watch a pirate VPN service so no comment about the match itself. Also wont be posting much this coming week as I've frankly had enough. TS dont care so I wont either.
Suffice to say a half completed squad will only get you so far. I hate being right & hate being slagged off for saying so.....so I'll leave you to fight it out amongst yourselves and ponder how teams like ipswich who actually spend money & recruit properly, can then win away at Accrington (such a hard place to go to I'm told) and go top.
When people finally take off their blinkers & realise that the plan after all was to rely on the youth players & free transfers then we might be able to have a sensible discussion on whether the assembled squad can finish anywhere near the top 6.5 -
Actually I had this down for a 3-1 defeat. Was it the same scoreline last season? I rate Bolton and if we had taken a point I would have been chuffed. I expect Derby and Bolton and Wednesday to be the top three in May.
That said we made mistakes today. More than in any other game. Right across the team and management. Wolly to blame for the first. Clayden to blame for the second and the whole back line for the third.
If Fraser, R-S and Clare, are.missing from.this team we will really struggle. These are players who raise the standard of those around them.
Will be good to see if Garner can motivate them for the three cack sides we are about to play. I think we really need to see a reaction. That Charlton trademark negativity is springing back into miserable action I see. How fickle!! The "entitlement" of this generation..we deserve nothing and should expect nothing. You earn the right through consistent high standards. Some people are thinking Claus Jenson, Scott Parker and Di Canio and Super Clive are still in the building. Those days are gone.0 -
To win a game you need to score more goals than the opposition ..... I tell you. You will never win if they score more than you.Cloudworm said:
He loves casting himself in the role of lone voiced crusader. Truth is, most of the rest of us can't be as arsed to state the obvious... again...and again...and again...and pretend we were the only one saying, or thinking it.robinofottershaw said:
You should note from the number of Likes to your post that a number on here don’t disagree with you.golfaddick said:PWR.
Not at game nor did I watch a pirate VPN service so no comment about the match itself. Also wont be posting much this coming week as I've frankly had enough. TS dont care so I wont either.
Suffice to say a half completed squad will only get you so far. I hate being right & hate being slagged off for saying so.....so I'll leave you to fight it out amongst yourselves and ponder how teams like ipswich who actually spend money & recruit properly, can then win away at Accrington (such a hard place to go to I'm told) and go top.
When people finally take off their blinkers & realise that the plan after all was to rely on the youth players & free transfers then we might be able to have a sensible discussion on whether the assembled squad can finish anywhere near the top 6.
I am a football genius.12 -
Is there any difference between scott Parker comments about his Bournemouth squad and not being backed by his owners and BG comments this week about not making the play offs because the squad is very thin and "...we haven't spent any money in the window"! Should we expect BG to be fired in the morning too?
And then what? ... Bring SP in to manage us!!!0 -
Spot on mate .Of course we will sell the young talent to pay the bills .-Seen it all before over the decades. I remember back in 1960 (14th century when i was 600 years old for the younger smart arses on here) at the Valley V Blackburn Rovers, with 64 000 fellow Addicks. Fast forward 10 years after apalling management at all levels, and allways in Div 2 the average attendance wasn't in double figures (no stats but i'd put my house on it.) Where are those 64 thou now Millwall Palarse Arsenal Brentford W Ham et al .Just all gave up waiting for the 'promised land'. If we keep selling our best players for income, and not,also building on gate takings and other related ancilliary income, We are going nowhere. Just listen to the masters like Brownie and Curbs Delusionary optimism breads complacency. Ask T Scarly burn said:
Not so sure about that, but it reads like we are a work in progress. I just don't see it. The players we signed in the window hardly look like players that will flower into superb footballers in 2 to 3 years. The young talent we've brought through will be off long before any 'work in progress' gets near to completion.Wheresmeticket? said:
No. We just look like a hand to mouth operation that is bobbing about in the shallow end.1 -
Alright a few deep breaths.
So far this season we’ve lost against Sheff Wed and Bolton, both in their own backyards. We are 12th.
By this point last season we had lost to: Oxford, MK Dons, Wigan, Cheltenham and Wycombe. We were 23rd.
12th is not where we’d like to be but things change very quickly in football. Especially this early in the season. Like others, I am beginning to resent the situation the owner has left the squad in and he’s not left Garner an easy job to do.But I’m still not willing to write us off as mid table fodder until we see the results of the next three matches.20 -
I agree with most of what you say Bailey Particularly re the injury crisis I know we cant reverse history but J J had an injury crisis with the front line, and it was 1 step forward 2 steps back for over 4 -5 weeks. And yes i was definitely a fan of giving J J longer, along with a modest budget.TS would have saved money and gone straight into thr transfer market, and not wasted weeks searching for a new manager who was perhaps 2nd or 3rd chioice, any wayBailey said:
I have to agree with you Raplh. The January window is the most problematic, I also see no reason why TS will change his current mind set. He has a problem though which he may or may not have thought about. Todays message from Garner will ultimately have an effect on attendances as will any loss of form which any loss through injury or suspension is almost bound to occur, it happened last year with the loss of three of our forwards, we'd be very lucky to avoid another injury crisis this year. TS can cut costs to the bone but it does have an effect and the matchday ticket pricing policy is not dynamic enough to overcome that effect.RaplhMilne said:
Don’t tell anybody, but i have info on who we get in January. Fecking no one…… !!!!RonnieMoore said:BG doing a Bowyer the old mind games and playing down our chances taking the pressure of the players especially the younger ones but he wants top 6 …. Today it was about key moments the hand ball for the goal that gave them a lift and Raki miss when we were on top and it would have made it 2-2 ..
We are going to lose games every one does even the top sides but we will win as well , stay in the pack see who we get in Jan and then go for it …
You starting trying to get promoted from the start of the season not bloody half way through……
Put that rant to one side, i sometimes note that there is always a bolter or two that seems to go on a run towards the end of the season ,and reaches the play offs. Oxford springs to mind. If we can be such a 'bolter' after the Jan window , all won't be lost .I feel the nucleus of a winning team is there.. I think that B G can build on it, If TS has learned a BIG lesson of this. pre season, recruiting (not ) nightmare, He should also listen and learn from the masters like Curbs and co. I have high hopes of a strong finish- Personally speaking., this is my strongest hope now. The reality (dont you just hate that word) is that we are going nowhere with this current team as a whole3 -
I agree with that and posted earlier in this thread how we've had a tough start to the season, playing 5 of the current top 9. The next 3 look easier on paper and we should be targeting a minimum of 7 points.Callumcafc said:Alright a few deep breaths.
So far this season we’ve lost against Sheff Wed and Bolton, both in their own backyards. We are 12th.
By this point last season we had lost to: Oxford, MK Dons, Wigan, Cheltenham and Wycombe. We were 23rd.
12th is not where we’d like to be but things change very quickly in football. Especially this early in the season. Like others, I am beginning to resent the situation the owner has left the squad in and he’s not left Garner an easy job to do.But I’m still not willing to write us off as mid table fodder until we see the results of the next three matches.
However i do feel the Plymouth result is making our start look a bit better than it has been. Take that game out and we've scored 6 goals in 6 games. We've also only kept 1 clean sheet and were probably fortunate to do that given Derby did everything but score.
Given that we clearly struggle to finish chances, it worries me that we're looking like needing to score at least 2 to win a game.6 -
Hmmm they didn't play anything like he set them out to yesterday..Bailey said:The biggest problem is the depth of the squad not just the quality. In an ideal world we wouldnt be asking Clayden to play out of position as a left back, we know all about Innis and his level of fitness and the same can be said with Chuks. I think that Garner has got the team playing the football that the owner and the majority of fans want but we won't be in the mix if those problems are not addressed.0 - Sponsored links:
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Is it time to try a DJ/ CBT/JRS front three ?9
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Just watched the highlights back, what was stockley doing for the third? Absolutely no attempt to get the ball and his reaction says it all0
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@golfaddick If the plan all along was to spend nothing, why go to the bother of recruiting a manger already under contract. If it was his son's idea, was the thinking "this guy Garner works miracles with nothing so let's watch him turn water into wine with what's at his disposal here?"
Not for one moment do I believe that Deadline Day Debacle was carefully stage managed to end up as it did, but it's certainly convinced me we're dealing with amateurs here.
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To be honest I think yesterday's result is less indicative of the wider problem we have at the moment. Losing to Bolton at their place is not ideal but not a total disaster. With gaps in defence it was always going to be a tough one. I think our real issue is that our lack of goalscoring is costing us wins against teams we need to be beating. Home games have to be wins, and in general so far this season we've put together 70ish minutes of excellent performances with only one goal scored and then been pegged back. We won't get anywhere until we've consistently resolved that. This Bolton result feels bad but it won't be the one we look at if we're not where we want to be at the end of the season, it'll be those unnecessary draws against teams we had over a barrel and let off. That's where we need to improve quickly
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Maybe but he could potentially play as one of the front two or at the tip of the diamond with plenty of freedom to drift wide.ISawLeaburnScore said:We can't play 3-5-2 when the best player in our squad is an out and out winger who needs to play in a 4-5-1/4-3-3
It might not be perfect for him but we’re not going anywhere while Stockley is playing as a lone striker.3 -
Playing with attacking flairTEL said:
Hmmm they didn't play anything like he set them out to yesterday..Bailey said:The biggest problem is the depth of the squad not just the quality. In an ideal world we wouldnt be asking Clayden to play out of position as a left back, we know all about Innis and his level of fitness and the same can be said with Chuks. I think that Garner has got the team playing the football that the owner and the majority of fans want but we won't be in the mix if those problems are not addressed.
Adkins- yes when we had Liam Millar..... then yes att times but wide open at the back
JJ- got blood out of a stone with the lack of talent in the squad- but no flair
Garner- we've been fortunate to win 2 (even with talent like JRS) ( derby game they squandered so so many chances, Plymouth we were( fortunate ) rules say that handball meant penalty and sending off-greatly influenced outcome)
I've only seen home games and listened to away games watching highlights next day, so missed the Sheff Weds game.
Abit sceptical about Garner Swindon stats- except the defending one which seems to be emerging i.e. leaky defence0 -
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Off_it said:
To win a game you need to score more goals than the opposition ..... I tell you. You will never win if they score more than you.Cloudworm said:
He loves casting himself in the role of lone voiced crusader. Truth is, most of the rest of us can't be as arsed to state the obvious... again...and again...and again...and pretend we were the only one saying, or thinking it.robinofottershaw said:
You should note from the number of Likes to your post that a number on here don’t disagree with you.golfaddick said:PWR.
Not at game nor did I watch a pirate VPN service so no comment about the match itself. Also wont be posting much this coming week as I've frankly had enough. TS dont care so I wont either.
Suffice to say a half completed squad will only get you so far. I hate being right & hate being slagged off for saying so.....so I'll leave you to fight it out amongst yourselves and ponder how teams like ipswich who actually spend money & recruit properly, can then win away at Accrington (such a hard place to go to I'm told) and go top.
When people finally take off their blinkers & realise that the plan after all was to rely on the youth players & free transfers then we might be able to have a sensible discussion on whether the assembled squad can finish anywhere near the top 6.
I am a football genius.
This simple fact gets lost in the jargon. The bar was raised at Charlton when the owner and many fans and Critics decided we had to not only win but win in style. This is way beyond our players pay grade over a 46 game season. Great against Plymouth with 10 men and who were open but we just don't have the fire power which is a shame as we do have some good League 1 players but without the ability to score goals from your main forwards on a regular basis you just won't win enough football matches.
Ian Evatt played 'Garnerball' when Ben was still a coach and it is as successful as the 11 or normally now the 16 players used over the 100 minute duration of matches.
I noticed last season that Bolton can be excellent with this way of playing and getting players in the box in support of their central striker and their forwards but you always have a chance with a counter attack or transition if talking in the vernacular.
'Off it' has found the meaning of football life; Score more goals than the opposition.
As clear as the nose on the faces of Ian Rush and Alan Pardew.2 -
To be honest, I have seen us play a lot worse than yesterday and if we had more players who could finish we could have got a draw. But we don't and we didn't. I look at Morgans's and CBT's efforts and it is evey f*ing time with them. If you want to illustrate a lack of composure, they would be great examples to use. And Rak Sakyi had four decent chances he could have done better with, but unlike the two I have named, this does not seem to be typical.1
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Scoham said:
Maybe but he could potentially play as one of the front two or at the tip of the diamond with plenty of freedom to drift wide.ISawLeaburnScore said:We can't play 3-5-2 when the best player in our squad is an out and out winger who needs to play in a 4-5-1/4-3-3
It might not be perfect for him but we’re not going anywhere while Stockley is playing as a lone striker.
Exactly what I was thinking Rak-Sakyi looks comfortable when playing central as he was cutting in shooting maybe he could be Stockley's Partner.
Allows Payne to come in the free role behind them and Dobson to just be the single pivot.
Kirk, CBT, DJ are all inconsistent and lack defensive cover anyway so better off as impact sub's along with Leaburn if we have centre mids who can play forward now.0 -
I think the only way of rescuing Stockley in this set-up/with this squad and also leveraging the fact we have to put JRS in his best possible position or we are wasting the best player we have is to push one of the midfield 3 further up to play immediately behind him in a 4-2-3-1. That would have to be Fraser or Payne - I suspect more likely Fraser as I don't think he could play in a holding 2 (certainly not to exhibit his strengths) and he has to get into our first XI with his ability. That formation would also be the end of Morgan who absolutely cannot play CM in a 2 against decent sides so McGrandles would come in alongside Dobson - at least until Egbo is fit which would give an option of putting Clare into that role. The two wide players behind Stockley (assume Kirk and JRS) would have to be prepared to push higher and Kirk in particular would squeeze narrower. The idea would be Kirk and Fraser are Stockley's immediate outlet back to goal and JRS is then looking to get in behind and run on to flick ons.Scoham said:
Maybe but he could potentially play as one of the front two or at the tip of the diamond with plenty of freedom to drift wide.ISawLeaburnScore said:We can't play 3-5-2 when the best player in our squad is an out and out winger who needs to play in a 4-5-1/4-3-3
It might not be perfect for him but we’re not going anywhere while Stockley is playing as a lone striker.
The above asks a lot of the full backs assuming that neither Kirk nor JRS will track back/contribute defensively to the extent which would be ideal, and that's clearly a massive gamble given both our fullbacks at present are makeshift and worse still neither are actually defenders primarily. However, that means the midfield 2 need to compensate (which is why Morgan cannot play there, and neither can Fraser... or I assume Payne).
There you go. That's the best I've got!0 -
Yes, there are a couple of possible solutions but none without risk but we probably have to have it as a plan B at least when Stockley is isolated and losing everything. Which is basically the last three games he has played in.0
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Hardly ever win at Bolton so no shock. But don’t like the 4 3 3 as your midfielders need to be top players, full of energy and great passers; we don’t have any of them except for Henry. Good old 4 4 2 teams would tear that apart.0
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I agree, I wouldn’t write us off yet, but…Callumcafc said:Alright a few deep breaths.
So far this season we’ve lost against Sheff Wed and Bolton, both in their own backyards. We are 12th.
By this point last season we had lost to: Oxford, MK Dons, Wigan, Cheltenham and Wycombe. We were 23rd.
12th is not where we’d like to be but things change very quickly in football. Especially this early in the season. Like others, I am beginning to resent the situation the owner has left the squad in and he’s not left Garner an easy job to do.But I’m still not willing to write us off as mid table fodder until we see the results of the next three matches.
- biggest concern remains goals, and the scoring of them. I think defensively we could be ok (well, ok enough) with what we’ve got provided there are no major additional injury issues. However, even with what we’ve got there are nowhere near enough goals in this team, mainly because the striker doesn’t look like scoring any. That’s a big problem because now we are left looking for a prolific striker in the free agent bargain basement.
- Garner sees this squad day in day out and has now publicly stated that top six would be an “overachievement”. Whilst some have taken that to an extreme and said he’s writing us off (he isn’t), it does mean that he thinks this squad is basically mid-table in quality. Some seasons a mid table quality squad can sneak into the playoffs but given the larger than normal number of decent teams in the league this season that’s going to be a very tall order.3 -
I agree with every point you have made there.paulg1947 said:
I agree with most of what you say Bailey Particularly re the injury crisis I know we cant reverse history but J J had an injury crisis with the front line, and it was 1 step forward 2 steps back for over 4 -5 weeks. And yes i was definitely a fan of giving J J longer, along with a modest budget.TS would have saved money and gone straight into thr transfer market, and not wasted weeks searching for a new manager who was perhaps 2nd or 3rd chioice, any wayBailey said:
I have to agree with you Raplh. The January window is the most problematic, I also see no reason why TS will change his current mind set. He has a problem though which he may or may not have thought about. Todays message from Garner will ultimately have an effect on attendances as will any loss of form which any loss through injury or suspension is almost bound to occur, it happened last year with the loss of three of our forwards, we'd be very lucky to avoid another injury crisis this year. TS can cut costs to the bone but it does have an effect and the matchday ticket pricing policy is not dynamic enough to overcome that effect.RaplhMilne said:
Don’t tell anybody, but i have info on who we get in January. Fecking no one…… !!!!RonnieMoore said:BG doing a Bowyer the old mind games and playing down our chances taking the pressure of the players especially the younger ones but he wants top 6 …. Today it was about key moments the hand ball for the goal that gave them a lift and Raki miss when we were on top and it would have made it 2-2 ..
We are going to lose games every one does even the top sides but we will win as well , stay in the pack see who we get in Jan and then go for it …
You starting trying to get promoted from the start of the season not bloody half way through……
Put that rant to one side, i sometimes note that there is always a bolter or two that seems to go on a run towards the end of the season ,and reaches the play offs. Oxford springs to mind. If we can be such a 'bolter' after the Jan window , all won't be lost .I feel the nucleus of a winning team is there.. I think that B G can build on it, If TS has learned a BIG lesson of this. pre season, recruiting (not ) nightmare, He should also listen and learn from the masters like Curbs and co. I have high hopes of a strong finish- Personally speaking., this is my strongest hope now. The reality (dont you just hate that word) is that we are going nowhere with this current team as a whole0 -
Drops the mike …….and walks off with a Nescafé wave to the Charlton Life rose tinted crewgolfaddick said:PWR.
Not at game nor did I watch a pirate VPN service so no comment about the match itself. Also wont be posting much this coming week as I've frankly had enough. TS dont care so I wont either.
Suffice to say a half completed squad will only get you so far. I hate being right & hate being slagged off for saying so.....so I'll leave you to fight it out amongst yourselves and ponder how teams like ipswich who actually spend money & recruit properly, can then win away at Accrington (such a hard place to go to I'm told) and go top.
When people finally take off their blinkers & realise that the plan after all was to rely on the youth players & free transfers then we might be able to have a sensible discussion on whether the assembled squad can finish anywhere near the top 6.8 -
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And a fit Jason Pearce, who didn't want to retire, would probably be in this team now..killerandflash said:Brownie was very good on the defenders constantly not getting tight enough, and not blocking shots, contrasting with the likes of Santos who was top of Stockley all game.
Thinking about it, the one defender we had who liked to get tight to attackers and do the ugly stuff was Jason Pearce. Nothing I've seen about Lavelle suggests he's anything more than an average L1 defender who's reached his ceiling.2 -
4 Weeks ago i would of given this an LOL. Today I've given it a 'like' I get TS wants to run break even but as other posters have said this is not possible in L1. Not signing a forward will turn out to be a huge mistake, like (IMO) the resigning of Aneke. I can see a Championship team coming in for Ben Garner. I'm thinking mid table finish at best. None of this is on Garner, who I think is a great manager. As @rob said in an earlier post I think Morale could become a problem. Stockley seems unable to score, a mate of mine who is a Preston season ticket holder swears blind Stockley is not a 20 goal a season striker.DaisyEdwards said:I hope that the Sandgaards watched every second of that shite.
It is plain for all to see that we need at least 6 in and 6 out of the club.
He and the rest of the optimistic lifers are living in cloud cuckoo land if they believe that the youngsters, Stockley, Morgan, Lavelle and Kirk are going to get us up. Forget about Aneke and Inniss they are an absolute waste of space who are draining the club.
5 year plan, fill the valley,attacking, pressing football, increase the revenue. The man is deluded, as are a lot of the fans who cant see through it.
Another season down the drain.1
