Not at game nor did I watch a pirate VPN service so no comment about the match itself. Also wont be posting much this coming week as I've frankly had enough. TS dont care so I wont either.
Suffice to say a half completed squad will only get you so far. I hate being right & hate being slagged off for saying so.....so I'll leave you to fight it out amongst yourselves and ponder how teams like ipswich who actually spend money & recruit properly, can then win away at Accrington (such a hard place to go to I'm told) and go top.
When people finally take off their blinkers & realise that the plan after all was to rely on the youth players & free transfers then we might be able to have a sensible discussion on whether the assembled squad can finish anywhere near the top 6.
You should note from the number of Likes to your post that a number on here don’t disagree with you.
Been on this train from Preston 3 hours and still another half an hour to go
At least it’s not the coach!
I’d flag this if the button still existed
Pretty sure you still can, being a mod and all, it's just it does something different to what it used to when everyone could see it I think. May have to have a bit of a play with it to see.
Does that mean you ARE on the coach then? What's the project arrival time?
I feel we’re at the point Garner needs to try another formation. Stockley is never going to offer enough as a lone striker and we shouldn’t be expecting Leaburn to play that role week in week out.
He played a form of 4-4-2 on Wednesday and used 3-5-2 in the first half of last season at Swindon so it’s not something he’s against.
We’re relying on Fraser and JRS as our goal threats and need to add more players to that. As well as Stockley not scoring we’re not a threat from set pieces. On top of that we need to tighten up at the back.
The season is far from over but if we’re to overachieve as Garner says and make the playoffs we need to find a way that gets more from this squad.
For TS he’ll also be hoping for a good season for the the younger players to reduce his losses. It could be argued that’s more important to him than a serious promotion challenge. The gap to fund that doesn’t look like something he’ll ever be able to achieve, so why push it too hard and still not make it? Instead you could blood a few youngsters and sell one or two within a year for millions, reducing your losses and making the club appear more attractive.
It's what I was thinking. Basically RD's strategy.
Not long back, it really is depressing, there was a real sense of resignation today in the crowd. Ben Garner is a decent manager that much is clear, I think with even 30% more backing this summer we could have been there or there about. I cant see any how we are ever going to get anywhere with Saandgard at the club, he just hasn't got enough money.
Been thinking about it since I got home from relatively v short journey. There was something not right about the team and fans today. As you said. It felt like it wasn't gonna happen today. I have so much respect for Saanguard saving us from where we were headed. But think he has taken on something he really doesn't understand. I think he has lost my backing. So wtf next. Help!
First off Bolton were good, they annoyingly interchange, move and are very old school Dutch in a lot of ways. Different to how I think Ben Garner wants us to play as Ian Evatt has had to scrimp and make do a lot more than us.
Secondly our defending would make me murderously angry if it was my old Sunday side, there is a lot of drifting going on, sort of ball watching indecision that I was hoping had gone. I dont mean us trying to play football from the back as much as I dobt think our centre halves are up to that, I'm glad we are trying but as defenders they first and foremost have to be decisive and actually defend.
Thirdly, Stockly is again totally isolated and the two wingers were also too far away from the central 3 which makes me question what the plan is there.
Positives, Rak-Saki is our genuine threat, he is a class act and it breaks my heart he belongs to Palace. Leaburn again looks so up to scratch I know we won't have him for long he has a good football brain.
You can't drop Stockley, he isn't the problem, I dont know what solution is, if I was the manager I'd be going to a midfield diamond and would push Kirk, RS or Blackett-Taylor up front a lot closer to Stockley of course that means one of our more effective players missing out. That could work with Kirk at the point of the diamond but I don't think he has the defensive side of the game in him to not expose the other 3.
Something else to remember is we have had a very rough run of fixtures especially when a manager is trying to completely change the way we are playing so hopefully confidence hasn't been irreplably damaged but we do have a 5-1 battering of the side who are biting the heels of the top 2 in the locker
First game I've seen this season where we truly deserved to lose.
Bolton have always been a bogey team for us, and once again were better than us all over the pitch today.
Couldn't understand why they were heralded as promotion contenders before the season kicked off, but they showed glimpses of it today - Sounds like their biggest issue now is doing that on a consistent basis.
Shame we didnt take our chances second half, as we did improve but Trafford did well in goal.
Not surprised by a lot of reactions, especially with how the transfer window closed recently - Not going to start making any end of season predictions this early in the season... Not going to panic either, its two defeats in what has been a challenging start to the season, teams do lose games over the course of the season, its no secret - Even those who get promoted, Rotherham after all only picked up one point against us last season.
But all it does again is force needless pressure on the team to pick up wins against the likes of Exeter etc. coming up.
and yes... I can fully understand Garner's frustrations.
Been on this train from Preston 3 hours and still another half an hour to go
At least it’s not the coach!
I’d flag this if the button still existed
Pretty sure you still can, being a mod and all, it's just it does something different to what it used to when everyone could see it I think. May have to have a bit of a play with it to see.
Does that mean you ARE on the coach then? What's the project arrival time?
I’m a new ground merchant these days ali :-)
I can’t remember the last time I was at Bolton. The FA cup QF in 2000 springs to mind, but I’m sure I’ve been there since
It certainly has the feel of a business where the owner is trying to minimise his losses possibly before making an exit...
I doubt there’s a queue of people wanting to make an entrance though. I would have major reservations about anyone wanting to take us off of Sandgaard’s hands. From a financial perspective we’re a pretty terrible proposition.
Watched the game with dad, a Derby and a Wednesday fan. All of us felt we were way off the pace of the game. Bolton just looked in control when in possession even though they had loose balls here and there, they won so many more 2nd balls than we did. When they had possession they were a few passes away from our box, often with a 60-70 yard switch ball to the far wing and hit the man time and time again.
We had a few chances to be fair and a 5-2 result wouldn't have been unfair. I'm not so sure we had an off day, more we had a reality check. Garner's system has already been worked out by the smart managers with a good squad. We CAN compete I'm sure, but not for a top 6 spot. I respect Garner for saying it how it is, not how it isn't. He's a decent guy and knows well-informed fans can smell bullshit. He has come out and said what he's said, because if anyone is going to get called a bullshitter, he sure as hell doesn't want it to be him.
Bowyer called it right preseason that we'd be lucky to finish in 21st spot. The luck wasn't in that year. For Garner to say 6th is punching above this teams weight, he sees what almost every fan sees and knows TS can also see it. He must be so pissed off that the essential replacements did not materialise.
The window is shut so there's no point arguing about who we could or should have bought. We now have 17 league games before the transfer window reopens (if you count 1st January). That's half the season done with this squad. Buckle up guys it's going to be a bumby ride.
lack of investment showed today BIG time .. Clare and Claydon, whatever they are, they're not full backs .. Stockley is useless in a 4 3 3 .. Dobson and Fraser worked hard .. falling sleep here so I'll just say, we are in for a few more years in this league unless Sandy spends some dough .. problem is, I don't believe he's prepared to invest what's necessary
Probably worst we've been this season so far, both individual and team performances.
Was like last season's games, 10/15 minutes good spell in first half, 15/ 20 in the second half. Couldn't make the most of it and paid the price.
JRS very good, needs to work on placing those shots better though.
Good to see Mcgrandles come on and get some much needed minutes under his belt seeing as he's barely kicked a ball in anger yet this season. The Payne substitution brought some renewed energy and creativity in the middle.
BG doing a Bowyer the old mind games and playing down our chances taking the pressure of the players especially the younger ones but he wants top 6 …. Today it was about key moments the hand ball for the goal that gave them a lift and Raki miss when we were on top and it would have made it 2-2 ..
We are going to lose games every one does even the top sides but we will win as well , stay in the pack see who we get in Jan and then go for it …
Don’t tell anybody, but i have info on who we get in January. Fecking no one…… !!!! You starting trying to get promoted from the start of the season not bloody half way through……
I have to agree with you Raplh. The January window is the most problematic, I also see no reason why TS will change his current mind set. He has a problem though which he may or may not have thought about. Todays message from Garner will ultimately have an effect on attendances as will any loss of form which any loss through injury or suspension is almost bound to occur, it happened last year with the loss of three of our forwards, we'd be very lucky to avoid another injury crisis this year. TS can cut costs to the bone but it does have an effect and the matchday ticket pricing policy is not dynamic enough to overcome that effect.
BG doing a Bowyer the old mind games and playing down our chances taking the pressure of the players especially the younger ones but he wants top 6 …. Today it was about key moments the hand ball for the goal that gave them a liftRonnieMoore said:
BG doing a Bowyer the old mind games and playing down our chances taking the pressure of the players especially the younger ones but he wants top 6 …. Today it was about key moments the hand ball for the goal that gave them a lift and Raki miss when we were on top and it would have made it 2-2 ..
We are going to lose games every one does even the top sides but we will win as well , stay in the pack see who we get in Jan and then go for it …
and Raki miss when we were on top and it would have made it 2-2 ..
We are going to lose games every one does even the top sides but we will win as well , stay in the pack see who we get in Jan and then go for it …
Watched the game with dad, a Derby and a Wednesday fan. All of us felt we were way off the pace of the game. Bolton just looked in control when in possession even though they had loose balls here and there, they won so many more 2nd balls than we did. When they had possession they were a few passes away from our box, often with a 60-70 yard switch ball to the far wing and hit the man time and time again.
We had a few chances to be fair and a 5-2 result wouldn't have been unfair. I'm not so sure we had an off day, more we had a reality check. Garner's system has already been worked out by the smart managers with a good squad. We CAN compete I'm sure, but not for a top 6 spot. I respect Garner for saying it how it is, not how it isn't. He's a decent guy and knows well-informed fans can smell bullshit. He has come out and said what he's said, because if anyone is going to get called a bullshitter, he sure as hell doesn't want it to be him.
Bowyer called it right preseason that we'd be lucky to finish in 21st spot. The luck wasn't in that year. For Garner to say 6th is punching above this teams weight, he sees what almost every fan sees and knows TS can also see it. He must be so pissed off that the essential replacements did not materialise.
The window is shut so there's no point arguing about who we could or should have bought. We now have 17 league games before the transfer window reopens (if you count 1st January). That's half the season done with this squad. Buckle up guys it's going to be a bumby ride.
Outstanding summary. Sensible conclusion. This is a minimum two year project.
I feel we’re at the point Garner needs to try another formation. Stockley is never going to offer enough as a lone striker and we shouldn’t be expecting Leaburn to play that role week in week out.
He played a form of 4-4-2 on Wednesday and used 3-5-2 in the first half of last season at Swindon so it’s not something he’s against.
We’re relying on Fraser and JRS as our goal threats and need to add more players to that. As well as Stockley not scoring we’re not a threat from set pieces. On top of that we need to tighten up at the back.
The season is far from over but if we’re to overachieve as Garner says and make the playoffs we need to find a way that gets more from this squad.
For TS he’ll also be hoping for a good season for the the younger players to reduce his losses. It could be argued that’s more important to him than a serious promotion challenge. The gap to fund that doesn’t look like something he’ll ever be able to achieve, so why push it too hard and still not make it? Instead you could blood a few youngsters and sell one or two within a year for millions, reducing your losses and making the club appear more attractive.
I feel we’re at the point Garner needs to try another formation. Stockley is never going to offer enough as a lone striker and we shouldn’t be expecting Leaburn to play that role week in week out.
He played a form of 4-4-2 on Wednesday and used 3-5-2 in the first half of last season at Swindon so it’s not something he’s against.
We’re relying on Fraser and JRS as our goal threats and need to add more players to that. As well as Stockley not scoring we’re not a threat from set pieces. On top of that we need to tighten up at the back.
The season is far from over but if we’re to overachieve as Garner says and make the playoffs we need to find a way that gets more from this squad.
For TS he’ll also be hoping for a good season for the the younger players to reduce his losses. It could be argued that’s more important to him than a serious promotion challenge. The gap to fund that doesn’t look like something he’ll ever be able to achieve, so why push it too hard and still not make it? Instead you could blood a few youngsters and sell one or two within a year for millions, reducing your losses and making the club appear more attractive.
3-5-2?
Know you’re probably joking but I’m not against it, it’s one of a few options along with a diamond or the 4-4-2/box midfield we saw on Wednesday. A Garner side would play 3-5-2 differently than a Jackson one and we’ll have better options at wing back when Sess and Egbo are available.
Watched the game with dad, a Derby and a Wednesday fan. All of us felt we were way off the pace of the game. Bolton just looked in control when in possession even though they had loose balls here and there, they won so many more 2nd balls than we did. When they had possession they were a few passes away from our box, often with a 60-70 yard switch ball to the far wing and hit the man time and time again.
We had a few chances to be fair and a 5-2 result wouldn't have been unfair. I'm not so sure we had an off day, more we had a reality check. Garner's system has already been worked out by the smart managers with a good squad. We CAN compete I'm sure, but not for a top 6 spot. I respect Garner for saying it how it is, not how it isn't. He's a decent guy and knows well-informed fans can smell bullshit. He has come out and said what he's said, because if anyone is going to get called a bullshitter, he sure as hell doesn't want it to be him.
Bowyer called it right preseason that we'd be lucky to finish in 21st spot. The luck wasn't in that year. For Garner to say 6th is punching above this teams weight, he sees what almost every fan sees and knows TS can also see it. He must be so pissed off that the essential replacements did not materialise.
The window is shut so there's no point arguing about who we could or should have bought. We now have 17 league games before the transfer window reopens (if you count 1st January). That's half the season done with this squad. Buckle up guys it's going to be a bumby ride.
Outstanding summary. Sensible conclusion. This is a minimum two year project.
Probably worst we've been this season so far, both individual and team performances.
Was like last season's games, 10/15 minutes good spell in first half, 15/ 20 in the second half. Couldn't make the most of it and paid the price.
JRS very good, needs to work on placing those shots better though.
Good to see Mcgrandles come on and get some much needed minutes under his belt seeing as he's barely kicked a ball in anger yet this season. The Payne substitution brought some renewed energy and creativity in the middle.
Yes I know the above bit didn't happen.
Yes, it was a bit curious why we made so few subs today, as it would seemed like an ideal time for McGrandles to get some minutes in a game which we were almost certainly going to lose anyway.
But then I remember Sessegnon, limping off one game, being on the bench the next game but not coming on, only for his injury to then be confirmed, so we have history this season of putting people on the bench when not really ready.
Keep going the way we are,TS won’t be adding anything in the next transfer window so BG won’t be around for the 2nd one…already prob regretting taking the challenge on with little back up by the owner…
I think it was a bit harsh singing you’re nothing special we lose every week after our 2nd loss of the season but we move.
Cause being blunt we have some right twats for fans? booed off the team at half time first home game of the season,
I left the ground at about the 87th minute mark away at Wycombe the other week cause my cousin needed to use the loo before a long drive home, figured we'll dodge the queue and watch the end of the game from the gate. Some plonker yells at us 'yeah f*** off, you aren't proper Charlton anyway' from somewhere in the pack with his mates. Yeah son, both season ticket holders and attend any away games we can just for a laugh.
A depressing performance to round off a disappointing and depressing week. Only Fraser, who I thought had by far his best game for us, Rak-Sakyi and O'Connell played at all well. Collectively, we allowed Bolton far too much space and we were profligate with the ball with poor passing that included several "suicide" balls across the pitch directly to them. Clayden was ok coming forward but showed his defensive frailties, and the lack of effective support on our left flank from Kirk meant that we were always vulnerable there. Lavelle was shaky in defence and like Bambi in boots coming forward. Big Stockley spent the game in the even bigger Santos's pocket. I won't go on, it's too painful.
I really like Garner but he was too slow with his subs today. Jack Payne for the tiring Morgan would have been a decent option from about the 65th minute when Bolton were getting well on top. CBT was given too little time to affect things.
The promising fluidity seen in earlier games has been missing since we hammered Plymouth. I hope we can get things back on track against Exeter next week, and FGR the following Tuesday. Six points which should be there for the taking, if we're at our best.
Dobson played well too I thought, and was one of the few busting a gut. Agree about Payne and CBT, although to be fair to Garner, we had a good spell for 20 mins at the beginning of the second half.
One of the only bonuses of the night was that we could easily have scored three or even four with better finishing, although we actually deserved nothing from the game. Funny old game.
Shame, but Morgan, having had a good spell recently, has reverted to the inconsistent Albie of old.
both the performance, and the decisions to continue to lump it forward.
stockley clearly not at it- didn’t win any headers, wasn’t strong enough at all, hold up play nonexistent!
clayden clearly not a defender, at fault for the second goal.
Garner has clearly changed the way our full backs play- noticed it last game and it’s terrible! Full backs are coming inside centrally leaving the 2 CBs at the back… just go back to basics and keep the fullbacks wide
kirk just not involved at all, not direct enough!
Very deflated, especially knowing this is how our season will go now… just pisspoor. CBT and rak-sakyi have to start next game, as does leaburn. Would probably play payne over morgan too!
Would it be fair to.say that the word "clearly" is clearly your favourite word?!
Comments
Basically RD's strategy.
There was something not right about the team and fans today. As you said. It felt like it wasn't gonna happen today.
I have so much respect for Saanguard saving us from where we were headed. But think he has taken on something he really doesn't understand. I think he has lost my backing. So wtf next. Help!
Secondly our defending would make me murderously angry if it was my old Sunday side, there is a lot of drifting going on, sort of ball watching indecision that I was hoping had gone. I dont mean us trying to play football from the back as much as I dobt think our centre halves are up to that, I'm glad we are trying but as defenders they first and foremost have to be decisive and actually defend.
Thirdly, Stockly is again totally isolated and the two wingers were also too far away from the central 3 which makes me question what the plan is there.
Positives, Rak-Saki is our genuine threat, he is a class act and it breaks my heart he belongs to Palace. Leaburn again looks so up to scratch I know we won't have him for long he has a good football brain.
You can't drop Stockley, he isn't the problem, I dont know what solution is, if I was the manager I'd be going to a midfield diamond and would push Kirk, RS or Blackett-Taylor up front a lot closer to Stockley of course that means one of our more effective players missing out. That could work with Kirk at the point of the diamond but I don't think he has the defensive side of the game in him to not expose the other 3.
Something else to remember is we have had a very rough run of fixtures especially when a manager is trying to completely change the way we are playing so hopefully confidence hasn't been irreplably damaged but we do have a 5-1 battering of the side who are biting the heels of the top 2 in the locker
Bolton have always been a bogey team for us, and once again were better than us all over the pitch today.
Couldn't understand why they were heralded as promotion contenders before the season kicked off, but they showed glimpses of it today - Sounds like their biggest issue now is doing that on a consistent basis.
Shame we didnt take our chances second half, as we did improve but Trafford did well in goal.
Not surprised by a lot of reactions, especially with how the transfer window closed recently - Not going to start making any end of season predictions this early in the season... Not going to panic either, its two defeats in what has been a challenging start to the season, teams do lose games over the course of the season, its no secret - Even those who get promoted, Rotherham after all only picked up one point against us last season.
But all it does again is force needless pressure on the team to pick up wins against the likes of Exeter etc. coming up.
and yes... I can fully understand Garner's frustrations.
I can’t remember the last time I was at Bolton. The FA cup QF in 2000 springs to mind, but I’m sure I’ve been there since
We had a few chances to be fair and a 5-2 result wouldn't have been unfair. I'm not so sure we had an off day, more we had a reality check. Garner's system has already been worked out by the smart managers with a good squad. We CAN compete I'm sure, but not for a top 6 spot. I respect Garner for saying it how it is, not how it isn't. He's a decent guy and knows well-informed fans can smell bullshit. He has come out and said what he's said, because if anyone is going to get called a bullshitter, he sure as hell doesn't want it to be him.
Bowyer called it right preseason that we'd be lucky to finish in 21st spot. The luck wasn't in that year. For Garner to say 6th is punching above this teams weight, he sees what almost every fan sees and knows TS can also see it. He must be so pissed off that the essential replacements did not materialise.
The window is shut so there's no point arguing about who we could or should have bought. We now have 17 league games before the transfer window reopens (if you count 1st January). That's half the season done with this squad. Buckle up guys it's going to be a bumby ride.
Was like last season's games, 10/15 minutes good spell in first half, 15/ 20 in the second half. Couldn't make the most of it and paid the price.
JRS very good, needs to work on placing those shots better though.
Good to see Mcgrandles come on and get some much needed minutes under his belt seeing as he's barely kicked a ball in anger yet this season.
The Payne substitution brought some renewed energy and creativity in the middle.
Yes I know the above bit didn't happen.
Sensible conclusion.
This is a minimum two year project.
My mates boy who was with us today went to Walsall.
I didnt know he got the coach from Dartford took 5 hours to get there.
But then I remember Sessegnon, limping off one game, being on the bench the next game but not coming on, only for his injury to then be confirmed, so we have history this season of putting people on the bench when not really ready.
I left the ground at about the 87th minute mark away at Wycombe the other week cause my cousin needed to use the loo before a long drive home, figured we'll dodge the queue and watch the end of the game from the gate. Some plonker yells at us 'yeah f*** off, you aren't proper Charlton anyway' from somewhere in the pack with his mates. Yeah son, both season ticket holders and attend any away games we can just for a laugh.