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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

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  • Do you honestly believe any of these people were actually interested? serious billionaires, ready to blow cash and they can’t even get a meeting with RD, come on. 
    No that’s why I said it - load of bollox
  • Cat 1 does require extra coaches. Which makes sense really, that the extra level is as much about the coaching the players can get as much as the bricks and mortar.

    Yes it would be nice to have, but Cat 1 is a massive financial burden in L1.
    You simply need to watch the recent ‘Football Dreams’ programme about the Palace academy to see what a proper job academy looks like…..
  • I'm not sure I believe that one... why would you sink money into something and then knowingly break a rule that you know is going to make your investment a waste of time
    Thought he'd get around it by coaches taking on more than one specified role
  • J BLOCK said:
    I don't think Airman would post something without being certain. Based on TS's judgement calls so far, I have no reason to disbelieve it.
    Quite. But there must be more to it. TS isn’t stupid, naive possibly. 

    The point is there must have been an angle he thought he could use as otherwise the request would have been thrown out without any inspection / audit I imagine?
  • JamesSeed said:
    Loans can be secured if you own the freeholds. Also, freeholds can increase in value, even if considered ‘unviable’ for development. 
    Outdated view. No one wants to lend to football clubs based only on the freehold of the stadium. It’s largely unenforceable security. 

    The security they want are Personal guarantees backed by secure assets. 
  • I would question why he hasn’t been willing to share any information about the shortfall identified by the inspection or even issue any official statement about the situation. He was quite happy to tell people how confident he was about getting approval.
    Agreed. But the answer I presume is simply he’s disappointed / feels frustrated I imagine and doesn’t want to admit to the knock back.

    No idea if there is some sort of appeal /near term re-evaluation or such like. 

    Whilst everyone likes a scapegoat does Roddy perhaps share some  blame here  for creating this angle / option to proceed even with the deficiency?
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    Agreed. But the answer I presume is simply he’s disappointed / feels frustrated I imagine and doesn’t want to admit to the knock back.

    No idea if there is some sort of appeal /near term re-evaluation or such like. 

    Whilst everyone likes a scapegoat does Roddy perhaps share some  blame here  for creating this angle / option to proceed even with the deficiency?
    As the fixture list is based on category, I think you can't be upgraded during a season?
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  • As the fixture list is based on category, I think you can't be upgraded during a season?
    Don’t know. I’m just speculating as to why the radio silence. Softer message if he can say not yet but I’ve got (now) commitment for next season subject to x,y and z. 
  • Cat 1 does require extra coaches. Which makes sense really, that the extra level is as much about the coaching the players can get as much as the bricks and mortar.

    Yes it would be nice to have, but Cat 1 is a massive financial burden in L1.
    it is a big financial burden. Brentford have moaned about this and the fact premier league football clubs have to have an academy so that have start from scratch. They think it is a waste of money.
  • edited October 2022
    Outdated view. No one wants to lend to football clubs based only on the freehold of the stadium. It’s largely unenforceable security. 

    The security they want are Personal guarantees backed by secure assets. 
    Must have changed in the last three or four years then. What happened? Not saying you’re wrong, but why do people like Barclay still say they’re only interested in the club with freeholds attached @valleynick66?
  • Why do you imagine Andrew Barclay bothered to speak to Mark Kleinman, me and Peter Varney, then engage with Elliott and co, if he wasn't "actually interested"?

    Do you not think he could entertain himself in other ways? That wasn't even his starting point. He'd tried and failed to get to Duchatelet already, which is why he sought help.

    The Aussies had plenty of meetings and discussions over an 18-month period. When they matched Duchatelet's price, he increased it.
    A bit of attention perhaps. I just find it impossible to believe a man of his wealth couldn’t get at least a meeting with RD, if he really wanted to. 
  • CAFCsayer said:
    I'm not sure I believe that one... why would you sink money into something and then knowingly break a rule that you know is going to make your investment a waste of time
    Well, he bought a football team to get it promoted then failed to spend the money on players so the club could get promoted- so he has form in that area.
  • Because he don't do failure.....
    Well he does.Big time, but doesn't like talking about it
    I thought “doesn’t do failure” was said by KM about RD?
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  • Well, he couldn’t. LDT said that RD had a lease with ESI so there was nothing to discuss.

    i don’t hold any brief for Barclay, I don’t think we have much in common, but I would imagine there are plenty of ways he could get attention without putting himself in meetings to be sneered at by the likes of Farnell and Elliott.


    Now there's something that's always baffled me about the lease RD subsequently agreed with TS. It was on different terms to those RD had with ESI wasn't it? If I remember correctly, it's for longer and the monthly payments are quite a bit higher, but I don't think TS was a poor negotiator. Wasn't it because he didn't agree to also pay RD the £50M that ESI had done before him and, as he wouldn't accept those terms, he wasn't offered the same preferential rate? 

    You see, I don't subscribe to the theory that RD sold to ESI to bankrupt us because, if he had, why did he later negotiate a lease agreement with TS when he appeared on the scene. He wouldn't even talk to Barclay & Co earlier, so he'd have had no qualms about sending TS packing if that was his intention.

    Furthermore, if he hadn't agreed to deal with TS, or any other potential buyer at that point, and we'd subsequently folded, wouldn't he have had to pay back the £7M in director loans?

    I'm not convinced his actions were those of a man in whose interests it was to put us out of business. As I've said before, to the amusement of some, I maintain that by choosing ESI, he effectively sold to the highest bidder (£50M+£1), motivated by money and not revenge, and he knows his best chance recovering his now comes with our promotion to the top flight.

    I think he may have to wait a while longer yet though.
  • CAFCsayer said:
    I'm not sure I believe that one... why would you sink money into something and then knowingly break a rule that you know is going to make your investment a waste of time
    How much money did he actually "sink" though? From what I have seen its a bunch of portacabins no real structures. Did he buy them because I had one of those outside my office in Maidstone that I rented to create extra office space and it was costing me £150 per month to rent.
  • The accounts for Clear Ocean Capital still have not been published will these accounts tell us more once revealed?
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  • edited October 2022
    Outdated view. No one wants to lend to football clubs based only on the freehold of the stadium. It’s largely unenforceable security. 

    The security they want are Personal guarantees backed by secure assets. 
    I agree that mainstream UK lenders will not willingly touch non-elite football clubs anymore. It's too much of a basket case industry with special regulations and intense pressure from the "customers". However, it depends which investment pool you are fishing in and we are not going to be fishing in a mainstream funding pool for the next generation at this rate, potentially ever. Any business which lacks tangible (or indeed, any) assets is going to have to work extra hard to justify its funding structure.
  • What a depressing time to be a Charlton supporter. Have to hit rock bottom eventually.
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