Heat Wave - Weather Watch

Fair criticisms but a bit of context/perspective, in no particular order.

South East Water have not paid dividends to shareholders for a number of years.

That being said, most shareholders represent all of our pension funds and will expect a certain return on investment, as would us as current and future pensioners.

The company will be suffering, like some other water companies, through lack of past investment and past shareholders who did not do enough. The current management and shareholders will be paying the price for past strategy.

No one back then would have comprehended or planned for the climate change (and speed of it) that we are now experiencing. Even now some people don’t believe it, so what chance management and shareholders 20/30 years ago.

The regulator needs to take a lot of the flack for not allowing investment in the last price review. And will customers want to pay more to fund it and deal with the ensuing road disruption for years?

They are water supply only, don’t conflate with Southern Water who are responsible for the sewerage issues.

Planned reservoirs have in the past not got past planning. The general population want these built but the people living nearby do not. 

Weegie Addick said:

Been swimming in the sea last couple of evenings here on west coast of Scotland. Glorious! 

Don't look now, but there's a massive turd floating along behind you.

letthegoodtimesroll said:

A few years ago I had air con installed in my house and while the work was being done I overheard a passer by question why it was needed because in his opinion we only have one or two hot days a year in this country. I suspect he had a dad who used to say something similar about having air con in cars and his grandad before him about not needing air con in offices and shops. This country has always been warm in summer, with a few wet exceptions, and it’s getting hotter. We have yet to collectively fully adjust to it as a nation but we’re getting there. Charlton Life in ten years time will see posters reminiscing about growing up in their parents house and suffering with the heat and the young CL posters not believing them…as they turn up the chill factor on their seat in the covered end another notch…

Houses get less hot than cars though, as they get more shade and you can draw the curtains to stop the sun shining in. And they're not made of metal, so don't heat up as much. Therefore while I wouldn't buy a car without aircon now, I can live without it at home. 

ME14addick said:

I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.

They probably need the extra water for all those grapevines being planted as it slowly becomes the ‘new-Champagne’ region, the ‘old’ one slowly heading to be a heavy-red only region in the next 50 years. The country already produces the best sparkling whites in the world, we just need to start producing more of them and the champagne companies are doing their bit by all accounts. Keep calm and carry on using a watering can in one hand and a glass of something very drinkable and English in the other 

We have light rain falling in Maidstone.

Our rain today lasted 5 minutes, hoping that we get the predicted heavy rain tomorrow. 

Big thunderstorm and heavy rain here in East Sussex, hopefully the water butt will be nice and full.

shine166 said:

Spent all of yesterday by Newcastle Quayside painting and it was brutal.. today was much nicer/better conditions. Off to Gozo on Monday for a week, luckily the heats not dropping off there and we'll have a pool to cool off in. 

Community service?

Thunder, lightning and heavy rain here in Orpington for about 20 minutes in the early hours.

ME14addick said:

I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.

As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.

The_Organiser said:

ME14addick said:

I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.

As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.

I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?

SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.

The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages

ME14addick said:

The_Organiser said:

ME14addick said:

I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.

As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.

I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?

SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.

The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages

Water supplies are good and the recent supply issue was purely due to not being able to get the water treated and distributed quickly enough to meet the excessive demand, compounded by a burst on a trunk main and the storm outage affecting a treatment plant.

However a TUB would never be implemented just for a short term issue like that, as it’s not even enforceable for 2 weeks and it will cost north of £0.5m.

The TUB would have been implemented, with the current issues in mind of course, but also due to the most recent long term forecasts.

Thry would never implement a TUB just to appease an MP.

The shareholder comment in that report is also very misleading.

Off_it said:

The_Organiser said:

ME14addick said:

I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.

As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.

Well the long term forecasts are for more hotter and drier weather, so on that basis maybe they should just ban hosepipes for good.

Then next they could maybe limit us to one shower a week.

After which, maybe only two cups of water a day?

You have more than one shower a week? How the other half live..

Look, I don’t know what the answer is for the water companies, but the speed of climate change is impacting everything and water supply is in that category. Add in Covid as a game changer in demand for some areas and you have a perfect storm. 

ME14addick said:

The_Organiser said:

ME14addick said:

I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.

As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.

I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?

SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.

The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages

It's a myth that our water companies are primarily owned by our own pension funds. The vast majority of UK water companies are owned by overseas investment vehicles.

My own local company (for sewarage anyway, I pay someone else for the supply, because that makes sense...) is Wessex Water:

"Wessex Water, which supplies more than 1 million customers in Bristol Somerset, Wiltshire and Dorset is fully owned by YTL Corporation Berhad, a Malaysian infrastructure conglomerate..."

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/30/more-than-70-per-cent-english-water-industry-foreign-ownership