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Heat Wave - Weather Watch
Comments
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It's hot, humid and sunny in Maidstone, I hope the predicted rain falls this afternoon.1
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ME14 I’m in Maidstone like you. We were at Howletts yesterday and had an hour of fairly heavy rain, but like you say Maidstone has not had much at all, though we did have some overnight.0
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You’ll probably find a TUB has been in the pipeline (excuse the pun) for a while and this was probably the tipping point, given this was the first proper hot and dry spell this year (much earlier than usual years) and the modelling and impact assessments will have been updated accordingly. As I say it would have been a last resort.ME14addick said:
If water supplies are good and it was a short term supply issue, why the hosepipe ban? Surprise, surprise we get hot dry weather in summer, the forecast for the summer didn't change in 2 days.The_Organiser said:
Water supplies are good and the recent supply issue was purely due to not being able to get the water treated and distributed quickly enough to meet the excessive demand, compounded by a burst on a trunk main and the storm outage affecting a treatment plant.ME14addick said:
I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?The_Organiser said:
As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.ME14addick said:I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.
The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?
Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.
If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.
As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.
I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.
The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages
However a TUB would never be implemented just for a short term issue like that, as it’s not even enforceable for 2 weeks and it will cost north of £0.5m.
The TUB would have been implemented, with the current issues in mind of course, but also due to the most recent long term forecasts.
The shareholder comment in that report is also very misleading.
SE Water is failing in it's duty to supply the water its customers demand and we have no choice of supplier. Anecdotally they have actually increased usage as everyone knows that the fines cannot be implemented until 26th June, so people are washing their cars, filling water butts and watering their gardens before the ban comes into force. The PR around all of this is appalling.
As I said previously, I don’t believe some areas of the West Country have lifted theirs from last year.
Yes we always have warm and dry weather in the summer, of course, but we’re seeing records broken year on year at the moment. And I think I’ve mentioned a few times the Covid impact which has shifted demand between areas but the SE in particular has been impacted with the proximity to London and the number of workers now residing in the Home Counties for all or more of their week, which just compounded demand during hot spells.Not the sole reasons of course but you bring a few unforeseen factors together and there is no way you can update all of your infrastructure to mitigate that in a few years, it takes decades and the lack of strategy in the past is taking its toll.1 -
Climate Change is a massive factor and the huge amount of development in the south east are all taking their toll and as a fellow resident of Maidstone, our area has faced more than most, with little infrastructure improvement. However it doesn't change the fact that 2 days prior to the hosepipe ban being introduced, the Ops Director of SE Water was saying that supplies are good , something changed in those 2 days and not the long term forecast.The_Organiser said:
You’ll probably find a TUB has been in the pipeline (excuse the pun) for a while and this was probably the tipping point, given this was the first proper hot and dry spell this year (much earlier than usual years) and the modelling and impact assessments will have been updated accordingly. As I say it would have been a last resort.ME14addick said:
If water supplies are good and it was a short term supply issue, why the hosepipe ban? Surprise, surprise we get hot dry weather in summer, the forecast for the summer didn't change in 2 days.The_Organiser said:
Water supplies are good and the recent supply issue was purely due to not being able to get the water treated and distributed quickly enough to meet the excessive demand, compounded by a burst on a trunk main and the storm outage affecting a treatment plant.ME14addick said:
I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?The_Organiser said:
As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.ME14addick said:I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.
The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?
Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.
If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.
As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.
I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.
The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages
However a TUB would never be implemented just for a short term issue like that, as it’s not even enforceable for 2 weeks and it will cost north of £0.5m.
The TUB would have been implemented, with the current issues in mind of course, but also due to the most recent long term forecasts.
The shareholder comment in that report is also very misleading.
SE Water is failing in it's duty to supply the water its customers demand and we have no choice of supplier. Anecdotally they have actually increased usage as everyone knows that the fines cannot be implemented until 26th June, so people are washing their cars, filling water butts and watering their gardens before the ban comes into force. The PR around all of this is appalling.
As I said previously, I don’t believe some areas of the West Country have lifted theirs from last year.
Yes we always have warm and dry weather in the summer, of course, but we’re seeing records broken year on year at the moment. And I think I’ve mentioned a few times the Covid impact which has shifted demand between areas but the SE in particular has been impacted with the proximity to London and the number of workers now residing in the Home Counties for all or more of their week, which just compounded demand during hot spells.Not the sole reasons of course but you bring a few unforeseen factors together and there is no way you can update all of your infrastructure to mitigate that in a few years, it takes decades and the lack of strategy in the past is taking its toll.1 -
Agreed on the first two points.ME14addick said:
Climate Change is a massive factor and the huge amount of development in the south east are all taking their toll and as a fellow resident of Maidstone, our area has faced more than most, with little infrastructure improvement. However it doesn't change the fact that 2 days prior to the hosepipe ban being introduced, the Ops Director of SE Water was saying that supplies are good , something changed in those 2 days and not the long term forecast.The_Organiser said:
You’ll probably find a TUB has been in the pipeline (excuse the pun) for a while and this was probably the tipping point, given this was the first proper hot and dry spell this year (much earlier than usual years) and the modelling and impact assessments will have been updated accordingly. As I say it would have been a last resort.ME14addick said:
If water supplies are good and it was a short term supply issue, why the hosepipe ban? Surprise, surprise we get hot dry weather in summer, the forecast for the summer didn't change in 2 days.The_Organiser said:
Water supplies are good and the recent supply issue was purely due to not being able to get the water treated and distributed quickly enough to meet the excessive demand, compounded by a burst on a trunk main and the storm outage affecting a treatment plant.ME14addick said:
I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?The_Organiser said:
As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.ME14addick said:I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.
The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?
Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.
If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.
As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.
I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.
The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages
However a TUB would never be implemented just for a short term issue like that, as it’s not even enforceable for 2 weeks and it will cost north of £0.5m.
The TUB would have been implemented, with the current issues in mind of course, but also due to the most recent long term forecasts.
The shareholder comment in that report is also very misleading.
SE Water is failing in it's duty to supply the water its customers demand and we have no choice of supplier. Anecdotally they have actually increased usage as everyone knows that the fines cannot be implemented until 26th June, so people are washing their cars, filling water butts and watering their gardens before the ban comes into force. The PR around all of this is appalling.
As I said previously, I don’t believe some areas of the West Country have lifted theirs from last year.
Yes we always have warm and dry weather in the summer, of course, but we’re seeing records broken year on year at the moment. And I think I’ve mentioned a few times the Covid impact which has shifted demand between areas but the SE in particular has been impacted with the proximity to London and the number of workers now residing in the Home Counties for all or more of their week, which just compounded demand during hot spells.Not the sole reasons of course but you bring a few unforeseen factors together and there is no way you can update all of your infrastructure to mitigate that in a few years, it takes decades and the lack of strategy in the past is taking its toll.
On the latter, short term supplies are still good, however I think the impact on demand of this short period of particularly hot weather has been surprising, so at a guess, with last year still all to recent a memory including the finically impact of that period on the industry and the reputational damage that rightly ensued, they have probably taken a decision now to try and mitigate further significant loss of supply during July and August.
Criticism now is probably better than more intense criticism and compensation later on if significant supply for a significant number of properties is lost for a significant period of time. Lots of ‘significants’ there I know… Though I suspect we will still see intermittent issues through the summer.
Time will tell if the TUB now was the right thing to do, but if not being able to use the hose means some people don’t lose supply entirely at some point, I’m happy to stick to the watering can.0 -
Good to chat on this, I obviously have some experience and knowledge of the water industry, but there are lots of fair points raised, but I also see lots of innacurate stuff in the MSM and on SM and I think water companies could do better in counteracting some points.1
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*Makes a mental note - The_Organiser is a man in the know on water and England away. Noted.The_Organiser said:Good to chat on this, I obviously have some experience and knowledge of the water industry from, but there are lots of fair points raised, but I also see lots of innacurate stuff in the MSM and on SM and I think water companies could do better in counteracting some points.
;-)1 -
Organisers mates : look, can’t we spend the afternoon in the town square and having a few beers?Off_it said:
*Makes a mental note - The_Organiser is a man in the know on water and England away. Noted.The_Organiser said:Good to chat on this, I obviously have some experience and knowledge of the water industry from, but there are lots of fair points raised, but I also see lots of innacurate stuff in the MSM and on SM and I think water companies could do better in counteracting some points.
;-)
The Organiser - but how many chances will you ever get to do the North Macedonian Sewage Company’s guided tour of underground pipe works 1750-1865?9 -
I don't think anybody sets out to waste water, but you are probably younger than I and it is a struggle to water my garden without a hose. I have already drastically cut down on the number of pots this year. I have planted new shrubs and plants which are better suited to dry conditions, however they do still need regular watering until properly established.The_Organiser said:
Agreed on the first two points.ME14addick said:
Climate Change is a massive factor and the huge amount of development in the south east are all taking their toll and as a fellow resident of Maidstone, our area has faced more than most, with little infrastructure improvement. However it doesn't change the fact that 2 days prior to the hosepipe ban being introduced, the Ops Director of SE Water was saying that supplies are good , something changed in those 2 days and not the long term forecast.The_Organiser said:
You’ll probably find a TUB has been in the pipeline (excuse the pun) for a while and this was probably the tipping point, given this was the first proper hot and dry spell this year (much earlier than usual years) and the modelling and impact assessments will have been updated accordingly. As I say it would have been a last resort.ME14addick said:
If water supplies are good and it was a short term supply issue, why the hosepipe ban? Surprise, surprise we get hot dry weather in summer, the forecast for the summer didn't change in 2 days.The_Organiser said:
Water supplies are good and the recent supply issue was purely due to not being able to get the water treated and distributed quickly enough to meet the excessive demand, compounded by a burst on a trunk main and the storm outage affecting a treatment plant.ME14addick said:
I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?The_Organiser said:
As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.ME14addick said:I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.
The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?
Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.
If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.
As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.
I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.
The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages
However a TUB would never be implemented just for a short term issue like that, as it’s not even enforceable for 2 weeks and it will cost north of £0.5m.
The TUB would have been implemented, with the current issues in mind of course, but also due to the most recent long term forecasts.
The shareholder comment in that report is also very misleading.
SE Water is failing in it's duty to supply the water its customers demand and we have no choice of supplier. Anecdotally they have actually increased usage as everyone knows that the fines cannot be implemented until 26th June, so people are washing their cars, filling water butts and watering their gardens before the ban comes into force. The PR around all of this is appalling.
As I said previously, I don’t believe some areas of the West Country have lifted theirs from last year.
Yes we always have warm and dry weather in the summer, of course, but we’re seeing records broken year on year at the moment. And I think I’ve mentioned a few times the Covid impact which has shifted demand between areas but the SE in particular has been impacted with the proximity to London and the number of workers now residing in the Home Counties for all or more of their week, which just compounded demand during hot spells.Not the sole reasons of course but you bring a few unforeseen factors together and there is no way you can update all of your infrastructure to mitigate that in a few years, it takes decades and the lack of strategy in the past is taking its toll.
On the latter, short term supplies are still good, however I think the impact on demand of this short period of particularly hot weather has been surprising, so at a guess, with last year still all to recent a memory including the finically impact of that period on the industry and the reputational damage that rightly ensued, they have probably taken a decision now to try and mitigate further significant loss of supply during July and August.
Criticism now is probably better than more intense criticism and compensation later on if significant supply for a significant number of properties is lost for a significant period of time. Lots of ‘significants’ there I know… Though I suspect we will still see intermittent issues through the summer.
Time will tell if the TUB now was the right thing to do, but if not being able to use the hose means some people don’t lose supply entirely at some point, I’m happy to stick to the watering can.
Anyway looking at the radar, some heavy rain looks to be heading this way, hopefully it will fall on Maidstone this time, frequently it seems to skirt around it
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Ha ha! That's almost exactly the same thought that went through my mind!MrOneLung said:
Organisers mates : look, can’t we spend the afternoon in the town square and having a few beers?Off_it said:
*Makes a mental note - The_Organiser is a man in the know on water and England away. Noted.The_Organiser said:Good to chat on this, I obviously have some experience and knowledge of the water industry from, but there are lots of fair points raised, but I also see lots of innacurate stuff in the MSM and on SM and I think water companies could do better in counteracting some points.
;-)
The Organiser - but how many chances will you ever get to do the North Macedonian Sewage Company’s guided tour of underground pipe works 1750-1865?
His mates think he's well up for travelling away to England games because he loves the football, but little do they know the real reason he goes to these far flung places is so he can collect a sample of the local tap water for his collection and check the water pressures and toilet flushes!
:-)2 - Sponsored links:
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I think my mates would say i’m the person to ignore, on both counts!Off_it said:
*Makes a mental note - The_Organiser is a man in the know on water and England away. Noted.The_Organiser said:Good to chat on this, I obviously have some experience and knowledge of the water industry from, but there are lots of fair points raised, but I also see lots of innacurate stuff in the MSM and on SM and I think water companies could do better in counteracting some points.
;-)0 -
Was hoping for some decent rain today but so far not enough to wet a badgers arse.0
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Felt a bit daft earlier standing in the rain watering a few key plants. But the rain came to almost nothing in the end, so it wasn't time wasted unless it buckets down tonight. And I think there'll be lots of raspberries ready by the end of the week.
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Had some light rain for a few hours, but seems to be dying out now. No torrential thunderstorms.0
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A bit of light drizzle in Romford after the bbc app gave rain all day0
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Been raining on and off since midday down my way, some heavy, occasional rumblings of thunder. Took the dog out about 8pm between showers, cooler but still muggy. Water butt hopefully full now.0
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How do you represent the possibility of a shower or two, anytime between 9am and 6pm, in hourly symbols or percentages ? Answer, it’s not possible. Met Office text forecast and rain radar is your best bet.MrOneLung said:A bit of light drizzle in Romford after the bbc app gave rain all day
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I would have happily sent the rain which ruined the cricket in Birmingham this afternoon down south!0
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Big thunderstorm at the moment and lots of very welcome rain.2
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Rain here in West Yorkshire at long last. It’s been many weeks since the last worthwhile downpour. Garden and grass will be better for it.1
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The Met Office has issued a yellow hot-weather warning to a number of regions across England for this weekend.
Temperatures are expected to reach nearly 30C (86F) in some parts.
Regions included in the warning are: London, the South East, the South West, the East and West Midlands, the East and Yorkshire and Humber.
The alert will stay in place until 09:00 BST on Monday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65997596
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Good Morning Britain today talking about the extreme temperatures in Europe, and then following it up with a piece on whether or not Brits should change their holiday plans for the future 🤦♂️
Even had Simon Caulder on talking about what the holiday companies say if your holiday gets too hot. The planet is on its knees, but the impact on the Brits’ holidays is a very important side issue that needs to be considered4 -
cabbles said:Good Morning Britain today talking about the extreme temperatures in Europe, and then following it up with a piece on whether or not Brits should change their holiday plans for the future 🤦♂️
Even had Simon Caulder on talking about what the holiday companies say if your holiday gets too hot. The planet is on its knees, but the impact on the Brits’ holidays is a very important side issue that needs to be considered
He’ll need to get a new red version.0 -
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It's pretty scary what's going on across Europe. 2nd year running to have something like this too. Only by luck of the jet stream that we aren't experiencing the same.
Frequency of el nino events has always been something climate scientists have said would be a warning sign that things are getting real bad.0 -
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No frigging heat wave in Cheshire, its been more like November here today 😤1
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Light spitting in Edinburgh this evening. That's the weather, here for work so not been out to see any comedy.0
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It’s terrible. Italy beating its highest recorded temperature today by a full 2 degrees. This is only going to get worse. The thing I think is being missed or not made enough of is that it’s probably going to be very similar to when an elderly or young person gets sick. They can go downhill very quickly. Personally, I think that’s what we have here.cantersaddick said:It's pretty scary what's going on across Europe. 2nd year running to have something like this too. Only by luck of the jet stream that we aren't experiencing the same.
Frequency of el nino events has always been something climate scientists have said would be a warning sign that things are getting real bad.It’s really depressing me to be honest.4
