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Rugby World Cup 2023

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  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,156
    kinveachyaddick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    The amount of joy twitter is having about is losing is mad. We are the millwall of world sport and I don’t really know why ( when we are the biggest critics of our teams)

    Roll on the euros.
    English rugby has more money, players and resources than any country so always going to be seen as the big cheese to be shot down by others. 

    Plus when you have all those resources and can only play backs to the wall anti-rugby it doesn’t make them the neutrals favourites. 
    I am surprised we have more than those where Rugby is the main sport or one of two they take seriously? 
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,148
    Stig said:
    Can I ask how typical last night's match was? It's the first time I've ever watched a full 80 minutes. I saw most of France v Italy a couple of weeks ago and that seemed genuinely skillful. Last night there was obviously something good going on because the commentators kept praising the players, but whatever it was was eluding me. It really did look, to my untrained eye, like a bunch of fat blokes pushing each other. What am I missing?
    I am the same as you can't get excited or involved with any of it. My engineer got excitrd over a game that finished 84-0 the other week.

    Never known a game where the fans cheer when they kick it out for a throw in. Strange lot.
  • stop_shouting
    stop_shouting Posts: 3,680
    Stig said:
    Can I ask how typical last night's match was? It's the first time I've ever watched a full 80 minutes. I saw most of France v Italy a couple of weeks ago and that seemed genuinely skillful. Last night there was obviously something good going on because the commentators kept praising the players, but whatever it was was eluding me. It really did look, to my untrained eye, like a bunch of fat blokes pushing each other. What am I missing?
    That’s the first full match of rugby you’ve ever watched!! Aren’t you an older bloke? Did you not watch any of the World Cup finals we’ve been in? Erm hard to answer your question but England played a game to match their strengths. Akin to john becks style of football I guess. And fat blokes!!! 😂😂😂😂 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited October 2023
    England get criticised but South Africa basically relied on scrums to win and a generous ref. It was the same ref who helped the South Africans beat France.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,026
    Yes I am an, err, 'older bloke'. No, never really been interested before, but yesterday it was on and I didn't have the energy to do anything else, so I thought I'd give it a try. I thought what I'd seen from France v Italy was a good advert for the game and wanted to see what I'd been missing. Now I get it, C'mon Cambridge!  
  • stop_shouting
    stop_shouting Posts: 3,680
    Stig said:
    Yes I am an, err, 'older bloke'. No, never really been interested before, but yesterday it was on and I didn't have the energy to do anything else, so I thought I'd give it a try. I thought what I'd seen from France v Italy was a good advert for the game and wanted to see what I'd been missing. Now I get it, C'mon Cambridge!  
    I’m no rugster either to be honest. I think my analogy is accurate from what I saw and read on X etc 
  • CAFCTrev
    CAFCTrev Posts: 5,978
    Stig said:
    It really did look, to my untrained eye, like a bunch of fat blokes pushing each other.
    Much like a typical Charlton away day in the away end.
  • lordromford
    lordromford Posts: 7,783
    Chippycafc said:
    Stig said:
    Can I ask how typical last night's match was? It's the first time I've ever watched a full 80 minutes. I saw most of France v Italy a couple of weeks ago and that seemed genuinely skillful. Last night there was obviously something good going on because the commentators kept praising the players, but whatever it was was eluding me. It really did look, to my untrained eye, like a bunch of fat blokes pushing each other. What am I missing?
    I am the same as you can't get excited or involved with any of it. My engineer got excitrd over a game that finished 84-0 the other week.

    Never known a game where the fans cheer when they kick it out for a throw in. Strange lot.
    I used to quite enjoy watching the five nations (as it was then) and the early years of the six nations, but in recent years I’ve found rugby quite dull, partly because I’ve no clue why they’re doing what they’re doing, why penalties are being given or why the commentators are saying that something good or bad has happened.
    I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s just a bunch of fat blokes, but it really leaves me cold and has done for about 20 years.
    I understand the need for rules to keep it safe, but I think there are so many technical rules now, I’ve lost track of them. Also, I just think football is a vastly more entertaining game to watch and play.

    Add to that, I teach at a Grammar School in Gloucester, where rugby is THE popular game and is the game the school encourages the students to play. We’ve got a big field with space for five pitches and they’re all marked out for rugby. Football is an afterthought. And pretty much all the PE department sneer at football as if it’s below them and refer to football players as ‘babies’ and ‘prima donnas’ and harp on about respect in rugby. Which prompted my comment about the whingy saffer scrum-half yesterday.

  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,355
    the good news for all you inquisitive folk who have watched rugby union for 'the first time' and didn't quite 'get it' or those of you who don't really like or enjoy the game but tuned in cos after all it's a 'World Cup', as I say the good news is you never have to watch another game if you don't want to now that England are out

    For those who are not aficionados of the game but enjoyed the tournament, good, I hope you watch more and that you come to understand the finer points of rugby union, i m o one of the ultimate proper team games

    Those who like me really enjoy rugby union, keep watching, the final next Saturday will be at worst intriguing, at best enthralling  :)
  • NornIrishAddick
    NornIrishAddick Posts: 9,623
    Algarveaddick said:
    kinveachyaddick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    The amount of joy twitter is having about is losing is mad. We are the millwall of world sport and I don’t really know why ( when we are the biggest critics of our teams)

    Roll on the euros.
    English rugby has more money, players and resources than any country so always going to be seen as the big cheese to be shot down by others. 

    Plus when you have all those resources and can only play backs to the wall anti-rugby it doesn’t make them the neutrals favourites. 
    I am surprised we have more than those where Rugby is the main sport or one of two they take seriously? 
    IIRC England has always (at least in the modern era) had the largest number of registered players, so the pool to pick from will be greater than that of other nations.

    With the advent of the professional game, English top tier rugby has, partly thanks to sponsorship and Sky TV money, partly thanks to crazy money being thrown at teams by their new benefactors, when you consider the number of fans in the ground, generally had more cash than anyone else.  Or acted as if they had.

    The following is very much IMHO, and probably represents my own own bias more than anything else...

    Several traditional English club powers were diminished in the rugby gold rush, while some of the the investors in English club rugby make Duchatelet seem reasonable in their cavalier disregard for fans and traditions, such where the bleedin' team plays (to say nothing of the apparent failure to ever grasp the economic realities of the sport).  Recent seasons have seen certain fowl coming home to roost with regard to financial matters.

    To which I would add an element of hubris (some might say more than an element), on the part of owners and administrators, leading to English club rugby not having the smoothest relations with its brother club structures.

    All of which, along with the rise of URC and other reinvented club league structures, even Major League Rugby in USA, as well as the enduring attractions of French Top 14 club rugby, mean that English club rugby is a bit vulnerable right now.

    At the moment, I really enjoy watching URC, even on TG4 (which is close to an incentive to relearn Irish via Duolingo), because it's really competitive.  And I think it's open to the possibility of growth, the two South African provinces have added a fair bit of extra interest since joining, and new teams (properly set up) could be a really good way of improving the competition and the health of rugby more generally.
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  • Wellred
    Wellred Posts: 1,118
    Ended up watching it in The Bombardier
    English pub absolute brilliant atmosphere 
    We was so close to getting the win absolutely gutted but what a brilliant effort from us well done England 
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,355
    The English will be in the final !! .. that's referee Wayne Barnes and the two assistants, aka touch judges .. If only English referees could officiate England's internationals, they are the best referees in the world and would NOT be biased. 
    Of course it will never happen, instead we get substandard refs from the Antipodes who officiate according to THEIR laws and interpretations and not all too often as the laws are written .. All i m o of course
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,633
    Lincsaddick said:
    The English will be in the final !! .. that's referee Wayne Barnes and the two assistants, aka touch judges .. If only English referees could officiate England's internationals, they are the best referees in the world and would NOT be biased. 
    Of course it will never happen, instead we get substandard refs from the Antipodes who officiate according to THEIR laws and interpretations and not all too often as the laws are written .. All i m o of course
    Wayne Barnes is awful when refereeing Ireland games.
  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,806
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    England get criticised but South Africa basically relied on scrums to win and a generous ref. It was the same ref who helped the South Africans beat France.
    Yes it was clever from the saffas. They were losing the line out, losing the kicking game, too wet for a passing game, losing at the clear out and so they went back to what they know. Once you get a ref penalising the oppo scrum, you can cheat the fuck out of it and the oppo will continue to get pinged. 

    They put on a fresh high quality front row and in the first scrum we got ramped. We put in our reserve front row and sinkler couldn't handle it. Needed to win the first couple and lost. After then the ref is always going to give it against you. Last two scrum penalties were dodgy but to avoid them, needed to do better in the first scrums. Cute from saffas. 
  • billysboots
    billysboots Posts: 1,596
    edited October 2023
    Alwaysneil said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    England get criticised but South Africa basically relied on scrums to win and a generous ref. It was the same ref who helped the South Africans beat France.
    Yes it was clever from the saffas. They were losing the line out, losing the kicking game, too wet for a passing game, losing at the clear out and so they went back to what they know. Once you get a ref penalising the oppo scrum, you can cheat the fuck out of it and the oppo will continue to get pinged. 

    They put on a fresh high quality front row and in the first scrum we got ramped. We put in our reserve front row and sinkler couldn't handle it. Needed to win the first couple and lost. After then the ref is always going to give it against you. Last two scrum penalties were dodgy but to avoid them, needed to do better in the first scrums. Cute from saffas. 
    When we won in 2003 in the final we were struggling with the Ref in the scrums and being pinged. We bought on Jason Leonard who walked straight up to the ref and told him not to worry about the scrum he would sort it out. That was enough to change the “picture” the ref was seeing and evened up the penalties. 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    billysboots said:
    Alwaysneil said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    England get criticised but South Africa basically relied on scrums to win and a generous ref. It was the same ref who helped the South Africans beat France.
    Yes it was clever from the saffas. They were losing the line out, losing the kicking game, too wet for a passing game, losing at the clear out and so they went back to what they know. Once you get a ref penalising the oppo scrum, you can cheat the fuck out of it and the oppo will continue to get pinged. 

    They put on a fresh high quality front row and in the first scrum we got ramped. We put in our reserve front row and sinkler couldn't handle it. Needed to win the first couple and lost. After then the ref is always going to give it against you. Last two scrum penalties were dodgy but to avoid them, needed to do better in the first scrums. Cute from saffas. 
    When we won in 2003 in the final we were struggling with the Ref in the scrums and being pinged. We bought on Jason Leonard who walked straight up to the ref and told him not to worry about the scrum he would sort it out. That was enough to change the “picture” the ref was seeing and evened up the penalties. 
    Memory is a bit foggy these days but didn't we even not push at a scrum in the second half because we were so dominate that the ref hinted at uncontested scrums?

    So we picked a scrum, let them win it and the ref got that idea out of his head?
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,355
    guinnessaddick said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    The English will be in the final !! .. that's referee Wayne Barnes and the two assistants, aka touch judges .. If only English referees could officiate England's internationals, they are the best referees in the world and would NOT be biased. 
    Of course it will never happen, instead we get substandard refs from the Antipodes who officiate according to THEIR laws and interpretations and not all too often as the laws are written .. All i m o of course
    Wayne Barnes is awful when refereeing Ireland games.
    probably cos he's wise to all the naughty little tricks the Irish get up to, tricks that lesser referees miss  B)
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,270
    World Rugby: New international competition announced in 'significant overhaul' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67206691
  • ct_addick
    ct_addick Posts: 4,333
    Watched the game....not a big rugby guy so can someone tell me what the final penalty was for?.....seemed the ref was a little bit fussy ? 
  • NornIrishAddick
    NornIrishAddick Posts: 9,623
    Lincsaddick said:
    guinnessaddick said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    The English will be in the final !! .. that's referee Wayne Barnes and the two assistants, aka touch judges .. If only English referees could officiate England's internationals, they are the best referees in the world and would NOT be biased. 
    Of course it will never happen, instead we get substandard refs from the Antipodes who officiate according to THEIR laws and interpretations and not all too often as the laws are written .. All i m o of course
    Wayne Barnes is awful when refereeing Ireland games.
    probably cos he's wise to all the naughty little tricks the Irish get up to, tricks that lesser referees miss  B)
    I think, perhaps, that there are certain Irish players that he penalises more often (occasionally on occasions where they may well be more sinned against than sinning) than other referees would.

    Apart from that, he's inclined (IMO) to be a bit inconsistent about the timing of an advantage.
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  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,355
    NornIrishAddick said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    guinnessaddick said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    The English will be in the final !! .. that's referee Wayne Barnes and the two assistants, aka touch judges .. If only English referees could officiate England's internationals, they are the best referees in the world and would NOT be biased. 
    Of course it will never happen, instead we get substandard refs from the Antipodes who officiate according to THEIR laws and interpretations and not all too often as the laws are written .. All i m o of course
    Wayne Barnes is awful when refereeing Ireland games.
    probably cos he's wise to all the naughty little tricks the Irish get up to, tricks that lesser referees miss  B)
    I think, perhaps, that there are certain Irish players that he penalises more often (occasionally on occasions where they may well be more sinned against than sinning) than other referees would.

    Apart from that, he's inclined (IMO) to be a bit inconsistent about the timing of an advantage.
    agree about, that but so are a lot of refs .. advantage play time after a full penalty award needs sorting and not all left to the inconsistent discretion of the referee
  • Wellred
    Wellred Posts: 1,118
    On the Sunday in Paris nearly every neutral seem to think we was robbed & should have won the game 
  • Karim_myBagheri
    Karim_myBagheri Posts: 12,722
    lordromford said:
    Chippycafc said:
    Stig said:
    Can I ask how typical last night's match was? It's the first time I've ever watched a full 80 minutes. I saw most of France v Italy a couple of weeks ago and that seemed genuinely skillful. Last night there was obviously something good going on because the commentators kept praising the players, but whatever it was was eluding me. It really did look, to my untrained eye, like a bunch of fat blokes pushing each other. What am I missing?
    I am the same as you can't get excited or involved with any of it. My engineer got excitrd over a game that finished 84-0 the other week.

    Never known a game where the fans cheer when they kick it out for a throw in. Strange lot.
    I used to quite enjoy watching the five nations (as it was then) and the early years of the six nations, but in recent years I’ve found rugby quite dull, partly because I’ve no clue why they’re doing what they’re doing, why penalties are being given or why the commentators are saying that something good or bad has happened.
    I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s just a bunch of fat blokes, but it really leaves me cold and has done for about 20 years.
    I understand the need for rules to keep it safe, but I think there are so many technical rules now, I’ve lost track of them. Also, I just think football is a vastly more entertaining game to watch and play.

    Add to that, I teach at a Grammar School in Gloucester, where rugby is THE popular game and is the game the school encourages the students to play. We’ve got a big field with space for five pitches and they’re all marked out for rugby. Football is an afterthought. And pretty much all the PE department sneer at football as if it’s below them and refer to football players as ‘babies’ and ‘prima donnas’ and harp on about respect in rugby. Which prompted my comment about the whingy saffer scrum-half yesterday.

    Went to a standard/shite comprehensive school in Kent but unfortunately one of our PE teachers was a rugby fan. Cue a short arse (me) running down the wing scared to even go near the ball. 
    Still I support Gloucester as my uncle was a fan of theirs. 
    The game itself has gone right downhill. I was never gonna be any good at it but I could see watching decent teams it was an enjoyable sport. The rules have stopped a lot of that. It's now just an ok spectacle imo and will no doubt get less exciting with every new rule imposed on it. 
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,633
    The draw for the 2027 RWC will take place in Jan 26, two 6 nations to take place between these dates. The RFU really have learned anything. 
  • Swindon_Addick
    Swindon_Addick Posts: 1,640
    guinnessaddick said:
    The draw for the 2027 RWC will take place in Jan 26, two 6 nations to take place between these dates. The RFU really have learned anything. 
    It's not as ridiculous as this year, when it was almost 3 years before the tournament. They have their priorities all wrong and will still have rankings all over the place by the time the competition happens, but at least there will be 2 rounds of the six nations during the gap not 3.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,633
    Swindon_Addick said:
    guinnessaddick said:
    The draw for the 2027 RWC will take place in Jan 26, two 6 nations to take place between these dates. The RFU really have learned anything. 
    It's not as ridiculous as this year, when it was almost 3 years before the tournament. They have their priorities all wrong and will still have rankings all over the place by the time the competition happens, but at least there will be 2 rounds of the six nations during the gap not 3.
    When you look at the football WC, draw is 6 months or so beforehand and it’s a lot bigger competition. Don’t get this teams & fans need to know where they are based.
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,355
    edited October 2023
    not a World Cup game .. down memory lane from a few years back, a lot of the players will still be starting in Saturday's final

    https://youtu.be/jKcxyL8ltm0
  • KBslittlesis
    KBslittlesis Posts: 8,607
    Did anyone watch England win bronze?
    I was watching Spurs tbh.

    Congratulations England, far better than anyone imagined 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
  • Addickforlife
    Addickforlife Posts: 2,101
    KBslittlesis said:
    Did anyone watch England win bronze?
    I was watching Spurs tbh.

    Congratulations England, far better than anyone imagined 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
    Yep, it was a pretty turgid match with once again our attack not really firing at all. Anyway as you say, a good achievement to get 3rd place but think they really need to start moving the game plan on now. No way we will consistently trouble the top teams with a very one dimensional attacking structure. 
  • NornIrishAddick
    NornIrishAddick Posts: 9,623
    edited October 2023
    Addickforlife said:
    KBslittlesis said:
    Did anyone watch England win bronze?
    I was watching Spurs tbh.

    Congratulations England, far better than anyone imagined 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
    Yep, it was a pretty turgid match with once again our attack not really firing at all. Anyway as you say, a good achievement to get 3rd place but think they really need to start moving the game plan on now. No way we will consistently trouble the top teams with a very one dimensional attacking structure. 
    I think that the second half was much better than the first, but England clearly played well against an Argentina team that was much better than their meeting in the group stage.

    The game built nicely, in terms of tension and effort, and England (helped, in part, by several Argentinean penalty kicks not finding touch) deserved the win.

    Edit. I should make clear that while it was a bit disappointing England didn't go too wide often in attack, their defence was really good in the face of explosive Argentina attacks.

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