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MATCH THREAD: England vs Switzerland - 5pm KO (BBC)
Comments
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Well, that’s the outcome we wanted, but this tournament is the least excited and most angry I’ve ever been watching England *ahem* “succeed”.It doesn’t matter how far we go in this tournament, I will now forever despise Gareth Southgate as a manager. He’s lucking his way through this tournament. Everything he does strangles the life out of this England side, yet he keeps getting away with it. The one time we looked any good was when the Swiss forced him to change the system.
I don’t blame the players. They’re playing to his system and some of them are in the wrong positions or just aren’t right for it. The system is fucking shit, not the players.
He may have got to finals and semifinals, but with the quality players we’ve had at our disposal, I reckon Mike Bassett could have done as well. Linker and co keep saying “You’ve got to give Southgate credit” too for some reason, but I honestly can’t fathom what for?
I hope we win the whole thing of course, but even if we do, Southgate really needs to fuck off the moment this tournament ends.
Anyway, now I’ve got that off my chest…
YYYEEEESSSSSS! COME ON ENGLAND!
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We've never lost under Starmer28
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Best set of pens since Wembley’986
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Liew on France. Applies staggeringly well to England tooFrance, on the other hand, have the feel of a team being held together by success alone. Get enough talent in there, and maybe the teamwork takes care of itself. No wonder they finally seemed to free up when penalties arrived: a series of simple individual battles, a test of personal skill, no tactics, no complications.
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Could you put it back?Manic_mania said:i'm just going to put this out there;1 -
You could tell the difference from how we finished normal time to how we played in extra time. Southgate told them to cut out all that footballing stuff and get back to being ponderous and negative0
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I wonder how "annoyed" Argentina fans were in '98 when we outplayed them with ten men in the last 16 and they beat us on pens.1
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It'll never happen, but I'd start with Toney on Wednesday. Tell him to give everything for an hour to soften the defenders up, then bring on Kane, as Kane looked so sluggish.4
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Maybe. And as you say, his record tells a story of relative success. But for me his legacy will just be that he didn’t fuck up a golden generation as much as Sven did.Manic_mania said:i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
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I mostly agree with this, much more so if we actually win something
He's had the good fortune to have such an array of talent at his disposal yet not really taken the best advantage of it. His playing style and excessive caution do not endear him to fans while we struggle to put away less talented teams with turgid football.
However, he did well shedding the previous cliques of past it players and bringing the current lot through. Above all, I think he's been lucky, but you need that.1 -
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You must hate this.SELR_addicks said:Semi-Final we're lining up exactly the same again aren't we?
It is comical how Southgate keeps getting away with it.2 -
for the record, I didn't say success, I said respect. I will admit that that has been severely lacking from me. I'm just holding my hands up.lordromford said:
Maybe. And as you say, his record tells a story of relative success. But for me his legacy will just be that he didn’t fuck up a golden generation as much as Sven did.Manic_mania said:i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
😉
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"We needed more men in the box.."
Kane not getting in the right positions didn't help.0 -
Watkins for me. Will run in behind and that’s what we are sorely missing from Kane.killerandflash said:It'll never happen, but I'd start with Toney on Wednesday. Tell him to give everything for an hour to soften the defenders up, then bring on Kane, as Kane looked so sluggish.
The idea of being able to bring on both Kane and Toney for a penalty each as well.7 -
Credit to the players as well to have the maturity to avoid getting a booking9
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Fair. 👍🏼Manic_mania said:
for the record, I didn't say success, I said respect. I will admit that that has been severely lacking from me. I'm just holding my hands up.lordromford said:
Maybe. And as you say, his record tells a story of relative success. But for me his legacy will just be that he didn’t fuck up a golden generation as much as Sven did.Manic_mania said:i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
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Kane's having a similar effect on this England team as Stockley had on Charlton a couple of years ago.Start Toney and see how we do with a more mobile striker up front feels the way to go.4
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That would be a good option too.Callumcafc said:
Watkins for me. Will run in behind and that’s what we are sorely missing from Kane.killerandflash said:It'll never happen, but I'd start with Toney on Wednesday. Tell him to give everything for an hour to soften the defenders up, then bring on Kane, as Kane looked so sluggish.
The idea of being able to bring on both Kane and Toney for a penalty each as well.
Watkins isn't as good a finisher as Kane BUT his mobility means that he'll get to crosses and through passes that Kane won't now.
Or play Watkins in place of Foden or Bellingham, and play Kane deeper. Like how Kane played with Son at Spurs.0 -
I love the results.Brownie12 said:
You must hate this.SELR_addicks said:Semi-Final we're lining up exactly the same again aren't we?
It is comical how Southgate keeps getting away with it.
I loathe the performances.
Players dragging themselves through the tournament with moments of magic because the manager hasn't set them up in winning positions.7 -
I won’t.Manic_mania said:i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.9 -
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This. In spades.SELR_addicks said:
I love the results.Brownie12 said:
You must hate this.SELR_addicks said:Semi-Final we're lining up exactly the same again aren't we?
It is comical how Southgate keeps getting away with it.
I loathe the performances.
Players dragging themselves through the tournament with moments of magic because the manager hasn't set them up in winning positions.1 -
We're winning this tournament.0
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Lucky to get a good referee as well.ForeverAddickted said:Credit to the players as well to have the maturity to avoid getting a booking2 -
It’s all interestingly poised. Turkey, Netherlands, Spain all more attacking and look to have better team harmony/balance. France and England have bastarded their way to the Semis on a mix of defensive conservatism, individual moments, and blind luck.
Overall, it has been a tournament where defences have been more on top so perhaps grinding it out is going to be the way to win it. It wouldn’t be the first time at the Euros. Don’t rule out England vs. France being settled by penalties.
It’d be strangely dissatisfying if that’s how England finally break their tournament duck but ultimately the objective is to win not to win friends and the record books don’t record how well a team played.I do hope that they can find some kind of spark but sensible money is on Southgate picking an unchanged team for the Semi.0 -
Amazing how Toney didn’t even look at the ball… superb penalty.Konsa so good, must start Wednesday.Must admit England have bored me senseless most of this tournament but perhaps we are growing into it.C’mon England!!!4
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Konsa vs Guehi is going to be a tough choice for Southgate to make, I'd be surprised if the latter doesn't start again.stonemuse said:Amazing how Toney didn’t even look at the ball… superb penalty.Konsa so good, must start Wednesday.Must admit England have bored me senseless most of this tournament but perhaps we are growing into it.C’mon England!!!1 -
If we win the whole damn tournament he still has to go.Dazzler21 said:It's boring, but it's working. If we don't win the whole damn tournament he has to go.
Saying that, subs were on point and I think we have a great set of penalty takers.
And the bloke is so lucky he may even do it.1 -
Anyone for some xPG ?
76% of penalties are scored: Palmer (87%), Bellingham (88%), Saka (96%) and Alexander-Arnold’s (98%) penalties were all comfortably above average.
The Swiss penalties by comparison were poor: 61%, 74%, 76% and 59%.
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Agreed with everything up to the penultimate paragraph. If we win tournament (just saying!) it would be fucking magic.Exiled_Addick said:It’s all interestingly poised. Turkey, Netherlands, Spain all more attacking and look to have better team harmony/balance. France and England have bastarded their way to the Semis on a mix of defensive conservatism, individual moments, and blind luck.
Overall, it has been a tournament where defences have been more on top so perhaps grinding it out is going to be the way to win it. It wouldn’t be the first time at the Euros. Don’t rule out England vs. France being settled by penalties.
It’d be strangely dissatisfying if that’s how England finally break their tournament duck but ultimately the objective is to win not to win friends and the record books don’t record how well a team played.I do hope that they can find some kind of spark but sensible money is on Southgate picking an unchanged team for the Semi.1 -
Would be a very bold call for Southgate to drop his captain for a semi final. He hasn't made any bold calls all tournament and i can't see how he will start now.killerandflash said:
That would be a good option too.Callumcafc said:
Watkins for me. Will run in behind and that’s what we are sorely missing from Kane.killerandflash said:It'll never happen, but I'd start with Toney on Wednesday. Tell him to give everything for an hour to soften the defenders up, then bring on Kane, as Kane looked so sluggish.
The idea of being able to bring on both Kane and Toney for a penalty each as well.
Watkins isn't as good a finisher as Kane BUT his mobility means that he'll get to crosses and through passes that Kane won't now.
Or play Watkins in place of Foden or Bellingham, and play Kane deeper. Like how Kane played with Son at Spurs.
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