It'll never happen, but I'd start with Toney on Wednesday. Tell him to give everything for an hour to soften the defenders up, then bring on Kane, as Kane looked so sluggish.
Watkins for me. Will run in behind and that’s what we are sorely missing from Kane.
The idea of being able to bring on both Kane and Toney for a penalty each as well.
That would be a good option too.
Watkins isn't as good a finisher as Kane BUT his mobility means that he'll get to crosses and through passes that Kane won't now.
Or play Watkins in place of Foden or Bellingham, and play Kane deeper. Like how Kane played with Son at Spurs.
Would be a very bold call for Southgate to drop his captain for a semi final. He hasn't made any bold calls all tournament and i can't see how he will start now.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Nor me. You're 100% right, were in the semi-final again despite him.
And never forget that final against Italy was in the bag until the fool Southgate went all defensive.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respective group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been shit and messed them up and we have benefitted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Nor me. You're 100% right, were in the semi-final again despite him.
And never forget that final against Italy was in the bag until the fool Southgate went all defensive.
How when we lose is it one thing, and when we win another? - The excuses that people make like this are ludicrous sorry!! - Simply because you don't want to be wrong?
He didn't tell the defence to switch off for the Swiss goal, or was I missing something when that happened?
Any one who still thinks that penalties shootouts are a lottery are so wide of the mark. Thankfully we had 5 good penalty takers for the first time ever in a tournament at the end of 120 minutes. In tournaments in the past we have had Southgate and Batty taking pens. Both couldn't hit a cow arse with a banjo. A better performance but i hope Shaw is fit to play at LB in the Semi final as we are so restricted when Trippier has to cut back every time.
The Turks are in the lead but who ever we play it will be a 50/50 match as we have won 1 match out of 5 in the standard time.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respectie group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been sht and messed them up and we have beneftted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan but you’re spot on in your assessment.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
One word to describe that .. Unconvincing. I was impressed with the Swiss. I thought they were very well organised. When we had the ball, they dropped back into two banks of four and pressed our wide players when we had the ball. We delivered nothing into the box and even if we had, there was no one in there to have a shot or header at goal. Very poor from England. But .. we’re through and that all that matters. We have another bite at the apple against either the Neds or Turks. We have to improve
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respectie group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been sht and messed them up and we have beneftted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan but you’re spot on in your assessment.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
Even Spain know that, people have been kissing their arses throughout the Tournament, but when push comes to shove their players know when to sit back and soak up the pressure.
Lets see how they do against another team who seriously know how to sit back and defend, because they have the best defence in the competition
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respectie group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been sht and messed them up and we have beneftted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan but you’re spot on in your assessment.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
I think if you're using this tournament as an example it is a case of speaking from hindsight.
If Bellingham didn't score an overhead kick in the last minute we were out in the Round of 16. Likewise today with Saka scoring from outside the box. (Admittedly there was more time left today).
Nothing Southgate has done has caused us to be in a better chance of winning these football games in 90 minutes. It is simply individual moments of magic bailing us out.
Previous tournaments I would have agreed that we didn't look pretty but deserved to win games. Not this tournament. We are just very poor and quite lucky.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respectie group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been sht and messed them up and we have beneftted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan but you’re spot on in your assessment.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
i'm not either - as I said if you look back at my comments I think I called him a clueless prick in the last match thread. I'm not on board at all but I call things as I see them and you have to respect the record.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Nor me. You're 100% right, were in the semi-final again despite him.
And never forget that final against Italy was in the bag until the fool Southgate went all defensive.
How when we lose is it one thing, and when we win another? - The excuses that people make like this are ludicrous sorry!! - Simply because you don't want to be wrong?
He didn't tell the defence to switch off for the Swiss goal, or was I missing something when that happened?
As Napoleon said, give me a lucky general, not a good one.
When Switzerland hit the post in the last minute from a corner, that was luck.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Nor me. You're 100% right, were in the semi-final again despite him.
And never forget that final against Italy was in the bag until the fool Southgate went all defensive.
How when we lose is it one thing, and when we win another? - The excuses that people make like this are ludicrous sorry!! - Simply because you don't want to be wrong?
He didn't tell the defence to switch off for the Swiss goal, or was I missing something when that happened?
As Napoleon said, give me a lucky general, not a good one.
When Switzerland hit the post in the last minute from a corner, that was luck.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respectie group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been sht and messed them up and we have beneftted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan but you’re spot on in your assessment.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
I think if you're using this tournament as an example it is a case of speaking from hindsight.
If Bellingham didn't score an overhead kick in the last minute we were out in the Round of 16. Likewise today with Saka scoring from outside the box. (Admittedly there was more time left today).
Previous tournaments I would have agreed that we didn't look pretty but deserved to win games. Not this tournament. We are just very poor and quite lucky.
But… that’s the game plan. That’s France’s gameplan as well. And guess which two European teams have got to the most major tournament semi finals in the last eight years?
Focus on being solid at the back and let your world class attacking players (Bellingham, Saka… Mbappe, Griezmann…) win games for you with inspired moments - and if they can’t do that, be well prepared for the eventual penalty shoot out.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respectie group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been sht and messed them up and we have beneftted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan but you’re spot on in your assessment.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
I think if you're using this tournament as an example it is a case of speaking from hindsight.
If Bellingham didn't score an overhead kick in the last minute we were out in the Round of 16. Likewise today with Saka scoring from outside the box. (Admittedly there was more time left today).
Previous tournaments I would have agreed that we didn't look pretty but deserved to win games. Not this tournament. We are just very poor and quite lucky.
But… that’s the game plan. That’s France’s gameplan as well. And guess which two European teams have got to the most major tournament semi finals in the last eight years?
Focus on being solid at the back and let your world class attacking players (Bellingham, Saka… Mbappe, Griezmann…) win games for you with inspired moments - and if they can’t do that, be well prepared for the eventual penalty shoot out.
Which I think would be considered a successful gameplan if the score was 0-0 at the time of those goals being scored.
But we've been 1-0 down both times. Is a gameplan successful if you're needing bail-outs to purely draw the game? Rather than to unlock victories?
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respectie group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been sht and messed them up and we have beneftted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan but you’re spot on in your assessment.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
We've been very lucky the last two games.
1 win from 5 in normal time now against 5 teams we should be beating.
Still think we're very much sneaking through in spite of Southgate not because of him, but at least we're still in.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Respectfully disagree. I know we have had lucky draws lately but that's because of how appalling the "major" teams have been in their respectie group stages - it has been said before - we are precisely where we were expected to be in our draws it's just the "big" teams have been sht and messed them up and we have beneftted from it. How many times before GS were we the team that fucked up the draw by under performing in the groups?
I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan but you’re spot on in your assessment.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
I think if you're using this tournament as an example it is a case of speaking from hindsight.
If Bellingham didn't score an overhead kick in the last minute we were out in the Round of 16. Likewise today with Saka scoring from outside the box. (Admittedly there was more time left today).
Nothing Southgate has done has caused us to be in a better chance of winning these football games in 90 minutes. It is simply individual moments of magic bailing us out.
Previous tournaments I would have agreed that we didn't look pretty but deserved to win games. Not this tournament. We are just very poor and quite lucky.
I disagree on this - I think in the second half we had Slovenia pinned back and the overhead kick was a moment of magc that shouldn't have been required - we were unlucky with the offside goal and Rice's shot that was inches from going in. I guess anyone can interpret things to suit the narrative you want though,
It’s all interestingly poised. Turkey, Netherlands, Spain all more attacking and look to have better team harmony/balance. France and England have bastarded their way to the Semis on a mix of defensive conservatism, individual moments, and blind luck.
Overall, it has been a tournament where defences have been more on top so perhaps grinding it out is going to be the way to win it. It wouldn’t be the first time at the Euros. Don’t rule out England vs. France being settled by penalties.
It’d be strangely dissatisfying if that’s how England finally break their tournament duck but ultimately the objective is to win not to win friends and the record books don’t record how well a team played.
I do hope that they can find some kind of spark but sensible money is on Southgate picking an unchanged team for the Semi.
Agreed with everything up to the penultimate paragraph. If we win tournament (just saying!) it would be fucking magic.
You’re right, but I’d be nice to win with bit of personality. A win is a win though and I won’t be turning my nose up at it if it somehow happens.
honestly I feel like we could win the whole thing and people will be moaning about how we could have done it better.
I get @Manic_mania thst some people just don’t like negativity but can you honestly answer anything but no to have we played well in any performances? Have any of our games been enjoyable to watch?
We are through to the semis because we have had a very favourable draw and played sides that have just not been good enough to take advantage of our average, ponderous lacklustreness.
We could go on and win it, and that would be fantastic. But up to now it’s been fortuitous and poor.
There’s been some great expansive high-tempo football in this tournament and none of it has been in our 5 games.
honestly I feel like we could win the whole thing and people will be moaning about how we could have done it better.
If we went ahead in both games, then suffocated them to comfortably win 1-0 then I would accept our last two performances, but in both knockout games we've gone behind and needed moments of individual brilliance to equalise.
We still have a lot of room to improve, with the talent we have.
Reminder that Germany in 1992 > 1996 and West Germany 1976 > 1980, are the only two times the Runner-Up has reached the Final in the following European Championships. They won it on both occasions.
However West Germany, when they finished runner up in 1976, had also won it in 1972 - So they reached three consecutive Finals
Soviet Union in 1960 and 1964 made consecutive Finals, but they won it the first time, came runner-up the second... Spain in 2008 > 2012 is the only time a country have won both times they've reached consecutive Finals
Southgate honestly baffles me. The football has been dire, in most games we've had literally 1-2 shots on target all game despite the players he has to pick from. He's picking the same players game after game despite it obviously not working (Trippier, Foden etc), and he's refusing to pick players like Gordon when we've been crying out for width on the left.
He does nothing until the team goes behind and then he is forced into reactive subs. What was the plan tonight if Switzerland hadn't scored late? Would we have seen Palmer or Eze in normal time? How come Shaw was suddenly fit to play when we were chasing the game, but not 15 minutes earlier when the Swiss were getting on top? Bailed out by Bellingham last week, bailed out by Saka tonight, honestly the luckiest manager in the world.
But when everything is said and done you cannot argue with his record. History tells us that since 66 we had a semi final in 1990 and a semi final in 1996...........and that was it. TWO semi finals in 50 YEARS!! Now this guy has got us to 3 in just 6 years.
honestly I feel like we could win the whole thing and people will be moaning about how we could have done it better.
I get @Manic_mania thst some people just don’t like negativity but can you honestly answer anything but no to have we played well in any performances? Have any of our games been enjoyable to watch?
We are through to the semis because we have had a very favourable draw and played sides that have just not been good enough to take advantage of our average, ponderous lacklustreness.
We could go on and win it, and that would be fantastic. But up to now it’s been fortuitous and poor.
There’s been some great expansive high-tempo football in this tournament and none of it has been in our 5 games.
I think I have said many times that I am no fan of the way we play - feel free to check back I have slated Southgate. I don't care how we perform in the same way I don't care how Charlton go up this season. If it takes being negative, defensive, passive even. The end goal is the end goal.
I've watched this about 10 times now and it still amazes me how he takes it like this with so much at stake. Don't think i've ever seen another player take a pen like this before.
I've watched this about 10 times now and it still amazes me how he takes it like this with so much at stake. Don't think i've ever seen another player take a pen like this before.
Comments
And never forget that final against Italy was in the bag until the fool Southgate went all defensive.
He didn't tell the defence to switch off for the Swiss goal, or was I missing something when that happened?
Any one who still thinks that penalties shootouts are a lottery are so wide of the mark.
Thankfully we had 5 good penalty takers for the first time ever in a tournament at the end of 120 minutes.
In tournaments in the past we have had Southgate and Batty taking pens. Both couldn't hit a cow arse with a banjo.
A better performance but i hope Shaw is fit to play at LB in the Semi final as we are so restricted when Trippier has to cut back every time.
The Turks are in the lead but who ever we play it will be a 50/50 match as we have won 1 match out of 5 in the standard time.
He knows how to win tournament football matches. It’s ugly but there’s something to it.
Lets see how they do against another team who seriously know how to sit back and defend, because they have the best defence in the competition
If Bellingham didn't score an overhead kick in the last minute we were out in the Round of 16. Likewise today with Saka scoring from outside the box. (Admittedly there was more time left today).
Nothing Southgate has done has caused us to be in a better chance of winning these football games in 90 minutes. It is simply individual moments of magic bailing us out.
Previous tournaments I would have agreed that we didn't look pretty but deserved to win games. Not this tournament. We are just very poor and quite lucky.
As Napoleon said, give me a lucky general, not a good one.
When Switzerland hit the post in the last minute from a corner, that was luck.
And Southgate is a truly lucky manager.
Focus on being solid at the back and let your world class attacking players (Bellingham, Saka… Mbappe, Griezmann…) win games for you with inspired moments - and if they can’t do that, be well prepared for the eventual penalty shoot out.
But we've been 1-0 down both times. Is a gameplan successful if you're needing bail-outs to purely draw the game? Rather than to unlock victories?
1 win from 5 in normal time now against 5 teams we should be beating.
Still think we're very much sneaking through in spite of Southgate not because of him, but at least we're still in.
https://x.com/harjapbhangal/status/1809659744950288488?s=46&t=bUwHzB3vewuSGMxFWwvDZw
We still have a lot of room to improve, with the talent we have.
However West Germany, when they finished runner up in 1976, had also won it in 1972 - So they reached three consecutive Finals
Soviet Union in 1960 and 1964 made consecutive Finals, but they won it the first time, came runner-up the second... Spain in 2008 > 2012 is the only time a country have won both times they've reached consecutive Finals
He does nothing until the team goes behind and then he is forced into reactive subs. What was the plan tonight if Switzerland hadn't scored late? Would we have seen Palmer or Eze in normal time? How come Shaw was suddenly fit to play when we were chasing the game, but not 15 minutes earlier when the Swiss were getting on top? Bailed out by Bellingham last week, bailed out by Saka tonight, honestly the luckiest manager in the world.
But when everything is said and done you cannot argue with his record. History tells us that since 66 we had a semi final in 1990 and a semi final in 1996...........and that was it. TWO semi finals in 50 YEARS!! Now this guy has got us to 3 in just 6 years.
he is so lucky in the way draws go his way.
the players he has had at his disposal
he literally cost us a World Cup and a Euros by his negative mindset.
he will do so again this time as soon as we meet a top team
i give him credit for setting the England camps right after the previous debacles but he is better suited to HR rather than football management
I mean, imagine losing twice on pens, against a team that are infamous for them
https://x.com/agbnufc_/status/1809663683162743042