First shot on target in 94th min against Slovakia. First shot on target in 80th against Switzerland. Going to be difficult to Holland when we are having 1 shot on target each match.
3 shots v Serbia 4 shots v Denmark 4 shots v Slovenia
I mean stats only paint one part of the story - Its only one example, but if Xhaka hadn't made an excellent challenge towards the end of the first half; Mainoo was making it 1-0
But the stats wont show that.
Genuinely I don’t understand that comment. You highlighted one single moment in a 90 min match when someone made a tackle. Konsa made a great header in our box, without that Switzerland go 1-0 up.
I’ve given two 90 mins matches we have not had a shot before 80th min. Please explain to me what i am missing when watching England play, because i am seeing a team with no real attacking strategy except hoping Saka can deliver his own moment of quality.
First shot on target in 94th min against Slovakia. First shot on target in 80th against Switzerland. Going to be difficult to beat Holland when we are having 1 shot on target each match.
3 shots v Serbia 4 shots v Denmark 4 shots v Slovenia
I am as frustrated as anyone at the sideways/backward passes, and I still can’t understand why he didn’t select another left back as the in balance of the team is clear for all to see, but…
…credit where credits due. Semi Final of the WC in 2018, final of the Euros in 2020 (2021), QF in the WC in 2022 (and we may have gone further if Harry scored the spot kick) and now we’re in a semi again.
Before that, out against Iceland in 2016, out before we even played Costa Rica in 2014 etc etc.
I think we might shit house it all the way this year, and why not, when so many other nations have done that before us!
First shot on target in 94th min against Slovakia. First shot on target in 80th against Switzerland. Going to be difficult to Holland when we are having 1 shot on target each match.
3 shots v Serbia 4 shots v Denmark 4 shots v Slovenia
I mean stats only paint one part of the story - Its only one example, but if Xhaka hadn't made an excellent challenge towards the end of the first half; Mainoo was making it 1-0
But the stats wont show that.
Genuinely I don’t understand that comment. You highlighted one single moment in a 90 min match when someone made a tackle. Konsa made a great header in our box, without that Switzerland go 1-0 up.
I’ve given two 90 mins matches we have not had a shot before 80th min. Please explain to me what i am missing when watching England play, because i am seeing a team with no real attacking strategy except hoping Saka can deliver his own moment of quality.
Thats my point... You're banging on about shots on target, and already (combined) we've managed to find examples where defending has ensured that chances haven't been on target.
Why the endless desperation to pick holes in a victory - Criticism is one thing, but what does it really achieve? - You all bang on about what Managers should do, and act like you think you'll be listened to lol!
First shot on target in 94th min against Slovakia. First shot on target in 80th against Switzerland. Going to be difficult to beat Holland when we are having 1 shot on target each match.
3 shots v Serbia 4 shots v Denmark 4 shots v Slovenia
Credit due where credits due, he's got us into another semi and a real shot at making the final.
I've moaned about the dull boring football and that still rings true and, don't get me wrong, im not expecting or demanding a free flowing total football england, but my main gripe with him is his approach - although bringing results and measurable success - we could, with these players, attack games in a different way and still get this far in tournament football.
Ultimately, Southgate's safety first, be solid for 80 mins then stick on some pacey attacking players to nick it in the last 10-15 is frustrating given the talent at our disposal. Someone said the other day that his style would suit a "smaller" nation, and they're right.
Tldr;
Southgate could get an Austria, Switzerland etc to a semi, our players under a more expressive manager could also get us to a semi.
I do think some people just don't watch the game, see the final score and wonder why people are criticising.
It’s more people have watched England at tournaments for the last 20/30/40/50 years and have seen Southgate take us to a third semi final as manager.
Every time it’s argued he’s too cautious and gets lucky.
If he keeps doing it then he must be doing something right, it can’t only be the players dragging us through. We’ve had good squads before that could never progress past quarter finals. We’ve had a terrible penalty shootout record.
For me the truth is somewhere in the middle. With the players we have there must be scope for us to be a bit more attacking in our play and more proactive with subs without making us too open.
Although we’ve got this far it’s felt at times like watching a much better version of Michael Appleton’s Charlton - there’s a lack of energy, tempo and intensity in periods during games. These players have shown they can still get results playing that way of course, but they should be capable of creating more chances against some of the sides we’ve faced so far.
Southgate wants to control as many controllables as possible. It is in his soul; it is his way. I'm a combination of resigned to it and quietly impressed at his stubbornness by this point
I also think Southgate feels it more emotionally than most managers. You want your players to want it more. Do you want your manager to want it more, or display cold-hearted ruthless calculation? We have the former. Perhaps, deep down, it's what we want
IF the Slovakian team had man marked the England players in the final minutes of added time, the brilliant overhead kick by Jude would've been given as a foul as he would've kicked the defender's head as well as the ball. England go home after losing the last 16 match and 100% criticism on Southgate's appalling use of his attacking subs and his negativity.
If anyone on CL thinks that putting Gordon on in the 89th minute of a earlier match or Toney in the 92nd minute of the Slovakia match was good timing you must be cuckoo. For this to come off in such a small time frame was Luck.
For Southgate to be able to perm any 5 from 7 for his main Pen takers: Palmer, Bellingham, Saka, Toney, TAA, Kane, Watkins is like getting the keys to a sweet shop or a pub for you piss heads.
It feels churlish to criticise GS now but if we had gone out in the last 16 which we came within a flying overhead kick from the Sun newspaper would've had Gareth as Worzel Gummidge whereas now IF we scrape through and win the final they will put a crown on his head and call for a knighthood.
The overhead kick and the absence of a close marker was the sliding door moment and the difference between Triumph and Disaster. We really don't treat those two imposters the same.
i'm just going to put this out there; 3 THREE major semi finals now for Southgate; Bobby Robson and Tel Venables over achieved to get us to one, Eriksson et al squandered our last "golden generation" with none. But 3? At some point no matter how boring we are, no matter how "shit" we play or draws going for us... you gotta say thats pretty good and deserves respect.
I garauntee one day, perhaps decades from now we will be looking back and whistfully saying "in the southgate days"
I won’t.
We are getting to these semi finals / finals DESPITE Southgate - not because of him.
Nor me. You're 100% right, were in the semi-final again despite him.
And never forget that final against Italy was in the bag until the fool Southgate went all defensive.
How when we lose is it one thing, and when we win another? - The excuses that people make like this are ludicrous sorry!! - Simply because you don't want to be wrong?
He didn't tell the defence to switch off for the Swiss goal, or was I missing something when that happened?
As Napoleon said, give me a lucky general, not a good one.
When Switzerland hit the post in the last minute from a corner, that was luck.
And Southgate is a truly lucky manager.
But the thing is, Southgate creates the conditions for us to be lucky. It’s not by accident that we’re always one moment of inspiration or brilliance away from drawing level or taking the lead.
It’s because we’ve had some runs in tournaments of being drawn against sides that are below us in rankings and don’t have anywhere near the talent we have at our disposal, who can’t take full advantage against us.
I’m coming across an old moaner, I screamed and punched the air as much as everyone when we won. I think Southgate is a good man with little ego, but I’m bored with how he sets up his teams and I’m fed up we went into this tournament with him as manager. The cycle had run its course and we were / are ready for change. If we shithouse this then fantastic but we’ve a squad that should be playing so much better than it is.
It’s not though, it’s because we’ve beaten the teams we’ve played against, which is the aim of football. Diminishing results because the team weren’t hard enough is pointless. And even when we do beat a good team like Germany they’re suddenly not good anymore anyway so what’s the point? I have a memory of Iceland, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Romania and plenty of other teams having enough talent to take advantage of us, we’ve just stopped letting them.
I think this has been Southgate’s worst tournament so far. He’s being stubborn, he’s seeing changes too late and he’s being very reliant on leaving the likes of Foden, Kane and Bellingham on in bad performances just in case they do something cool. I think we could be less reactive and change things earlier and I think this should be his last tournament because it’s got a bit stale but there’s 4 teams in the semifinal and three of them play based on brutal, uncompromising misery. Because it works
Harsh on the Netherlands I'd say
It's the Koeman in them. In the end they revert to chucking the ball long to Depay and hoping he's quick enough onto it or Gakpo doing something surprising. Them vs France is a good bellweather for when they play us and that match was dull beyond belief. They're better at picking apart naive teams than England and France are but equally less capable of shutting them out. Koeman will be wary of giving our quick players too much space in behind and I think he'll pull them back in to avoid that, resulting in no joy.
The same Switzerland who were 2 minutes away from beating Germany and topping their group, and then comfortably beat Italy. Just because they're not considered a 'big' name, doesn't mean they're a bad side.
Do you think those big names of Germany and Italy would swap places with us right now?
And they're miles better since then. Xhaka is coming off the back of his best ever season, Akanji has emerged as a Champions League winner, Schar has hit his peak and Vargas and Ndoye have finally injected that bit of pace out wide that takes the pressure off everything being a ball over the top to Embolo. They're a really decent side, there's a reason they were seconds away from beating Germany and totally dominated Italy
Also for those who say 'yeah but Southgate has had an easy draw'...
We beat Italy home and away in qualifying to win the group and earn the right to be in pot 1 of the draw. It is not Southgate's fault that France and Belgium both messed up and ended up in the other half of the draw.
We won our qualifying group, we won our Euro 2024 group, so we earned the right to be where we are.
First shot on target in 94th min against Slovakia. First shot on target in 80th against Switzerland. Going to be difficult to Holland when we are having 1 shot on target each match.
3 shots v Serbia 4 shots v Denmark 4 shots v Slovenia
I mean stats only paint one part of the story - Its only one example, but if Xhaka hadn't made an excellent challenge towards the end of the first half; Mainoo was making it 1-0
But the stats wont show that.
Genuinely I don’t understand that comment. You highlighted one single moment in a 90 min match when someone made a tackle. Konsa made a great header in our box, without that Switzerland go 1-0 up.
I’ve given two 90 mins matches we have not had a shot before 80th min. Please explain to me what i am missing when watching England play, because i am seeing a team with no real attacking strategy except hoping Saka can deliver his own moment of quality.
Looking at the xG scores which give an indication of who created the better chances, after 90 minutes it was England 0.49 Switzerland 1.06
I then expected England to have the momentum, but instead Switzerland were the better side in extra time, so that after 120 minutes it was England 0.66 Switzerland 1.49
Of course goals due to brilliant individual moments count just as much as unmissable tap ins, but the stats do back up the desperate lack of chances England are creating, and for all the salivating of Rio and co, it really wasn't a top performance, other than the penalty kicks.
I didn’t remember this, but someone reminded me today that the last time we played Switzerland (friendly at Wembley in 2022) Xherdan Shaqiri hit the post from a corner then too.
What`s wrong with Foden? When is he going to put in a performance? After 4 games, he has yet to have an impact. He looks far from confident and looks a bit "lost" during the games.
What`s wrong with Foden? When is he going to put in a performance? After 4 games, he has yet to have an impact. He looks far from confident and looks a bit "lost" during the games.
He's had a few moments that haven't quite come off. Crossed for Saka to score but just offside, scored against Slovakia but again just offside, think he hit the post against Denmark as well.
I agree he hasn't been up to what we'd expect but then again none of the attacking players have been great. I can't see Southgate changing much now anyway.
What`s wrong with Foden? When is he going to put in a performance? After 4 games, he has yet to have an impact. He looks far from confident and looks a bit "lost" during the games.
He had a decent team game yesterday but he never looks quite as good as at City when he is surrounded by the likes of Rhodri, Silva and KDB etc.
What`s wrong with Foden? When is he going to put in a performance? After 4 games, he has yet to have an impact. He looks far from confident and looks a bit "lost" during the games.
He's had a few moments that haven't quite come off. Crossed for Saka to score but just offside, scored against Slovakia but again just offside, think he hit the post against Denmark as well.
I agree he hasn't been up to what we'd expect but then again none of the attacking players have been great. I can't see Southgate changing much now anyway.
Saka has lived up to his billing. Bellingham has been quiet, but has contributed 2 goals (one a worldie). Kane has been poor, but has scored twice. Foden so far has contributed very little.
Comments
…credit where credits due. Semi Final of the WC in 2018, final of the Euros in 2020 (2021), QF in the WC in 2022 (and we may have gone further if Harry scored the spot kick) and now we’re in a semi again.
I think we might shit house it all the way this year, and why not, when so many other nations have done that before us!
Why the endless desperation to pick holes in a victory - Criticism is one thing, but what does it really achieve? - You all bang on about what Managers should do, and act like you think you'll be listened to lol!
Credit due where credits due, he's got us into another semi and a real shot at making the final.
I've moaned about the dull boring football and that still rings true and, don't get me wrong, im not expecting or demanding a free flowing total football england, but my main gripe with him is his approach - although bringing results and measurable success - we could, with these players, attack games in a different way and still get this far in tournament football.
Ultimately, Southgate's safety first, be solid for 80 mins then stick on some pacey attacking players to nick it in the last 10-15 is frustrating given the talent at our disposal. Someone said the other day that his style would suit a "smaller" nation, and they're right.
Tldr;
Southgate could get an Austria, Switzerland etc to a semi, our players under a more expressive manager could also get us to a semi.
Every time it’s argued he’s too cautious and gets lucky.
If he keeps doing it then he must be doing something right, it can’t only be the players dragging us through. We’ve had good squads before that could never progress past quarter finals. We’ve had a terrible penalty shootout record.
For me the truth is somewhere in the middle. With the players we have there must be scope for us to be a bit more attacking in our play and more proactive with subs without making us too open.
Although we’ve got this far it’s felt at times like watching a much better version of Michael Appleton’s Charlton - there’s a lack of energy, tempo and intensity in periods during games. These players have shown they can still get results playing that way of course, but they should be capable of creating more chances against some of the sides we’ve faced so far.
IF the Slovakian team had man marked the England players in the final minutes of added time, the brilliant overhead kick by Jude would've been given as a foul as he would've kicked the defender's head as well as the ball.
England go home after losing the last 16 match and 100% criticism on Southgate's appalling use of his attacking subs and his negativity.
If anyone on CL thinks that putting Gordon on in the 89th minute of a earlier match or Toney in the 92nd minute of the Slovakia match was good timing you must be cuckoo.
For this to come off in such a small time frame was Luck.
For Southgate to be able to perm any 5 from 7 for his main Pen takers:
Palmer, Bellingham, Saka, Toney, TAA, Kane, Watkins is like getting the keys to a sweet shop or a pub for you piss heads.
It feels churlish to criticise GS now but if we had gone out in the last 16 which we came within a flying overhead kick from the Sun newspaper would've had Gareth as Worzel Gummidge whereas now IF we scrape through and win the final they will put a crown on his head and call for a knighthood.
The overhead kick and the absence of a close marker was the sliding door moment and the difference between Triumph and Disaster. We really don't treat those two imposters the same.
Do you think those big names of Germany and Italy would swap places with us right now?
We beat Italy home and away in qualifying to win the group and earn the right to be in pot 1 of the draw.
It is not Southgate's fault that France and Belgium both messed up and ended up in the other half of the draw.
We won our qualifying group, we won our Euro 2024 group, so we earned the right to be where we are.
This is tournament football… can talk about if this if that as much as you want…the fact is that we are in another semi final. Fucking enjoy it.
I then expected England to have the momentum, but instead Switzerland were the better side in extra time, so that after 120 minutes it was England 0.66 Switzerland 1.49
Of course goals due to brilliant individual moments count just as much as unmissable tap ins, but the stats do back up the desperate lack of chances England are creating, and for all the salivating of Rio and co, it really wasn't a top performance, other than the penalty kicks.
I agree he hasn't been up to what we'd expect but then again none of the attacking players have been great. I can't see Southgate changing much now anyway.
He had a decent team game yesterday but he never looks quite as good as at City when he is surrounded by the likes of Rhodri, Silva and KDB etc.
Here are the tomatoes I picked from my greenhouse whilst it was taking place.