I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

ShootersHillGuru said:

shine166 said:

Pelling1993 said:

I know people keep blaming Jones for getting rid of May, but wasn't he leaving regardless? Thought the wife stuff was the main reason for the move

I'm pretty sure that's BS and even if true he was under contract with 1 year left.... play out your deal and walk.

Not so sure. Mays face didn’t fit with Jones. One year left and a good price agreed with Birmingham. Increase in wages for May. Pretty obvious we’d have had a problem squaring that circle.

PragueAddick said:

Plenty of good posts here that I agree with in part or wholly. As so often @AFKABartram catches my mood and that of so many others.

If I had the chance to interview Methven again (fat chance) I would ask him the following questions, which of course he would deflect at best:

1.Clearly Jones demanded classic “managerial” control before signing up. Most of us were happy you agreed. However when he decided he wanted to shift May on, did you or others interrogate him over this mother of all big calls? 

2. Having agreed that he could shift May on, how quickly did you agree on a plan to replace him? 

3. Is Ahadme the most expensive sigining in the window? Who shortlisted him? How happy was Jones with him as a choice?

4. The week before the Blackpool game the mood in the camp was apparently harmonious, as you’d expect from a team sitting 3rd in the table. What happened that week to turn them into the team of clueless strangers we saw against Blackpool?

5. Specifically did you ask Jones why he dropped Mitchell? 

6. Mitchell has claimed that he received no explanation from the manager as to why he was dropped. Is that correct and if so do you consider this to be adequate management.?

7. while all managers want more than they get from the window, were there any specific areas of concern NJ expressed after the window closed? Could those concerns have been addressed with a loan?

i am definitely in the camp that says constantly churning managers is insane. I was in favour of giving him a long contract and very happy that we seemed to back him, early, in the window. But last night looked and felt as bad as the last days of Appleton. I dont understand how it could turn so bad so quickly. I’d have a more imformed opinion if I knew the answers to the above questions.

Garrymanilow said:

PragueAddick said:

@Swisdom your post above implies that Ahadme was a specific Jones choice. Is that the case AFAYK, and did you hear about other strikers that were ahead of him in the list? ( there must have been a list, surely?)

Theo Bair was meant to be our first choice wasn't he? Ended up going to Auxerre for £1.6m + £500k in add ons so we were blown out of the water on that one

Scoham said:

shine166 said:

Pelling1993 said:

I know people keep blaming Jones for getting rid of May, but wasn't he leaving regardless? Thought the wife stuff was the main reason for the move

I'm pretty sure that's BS and even if true he was under contract with 1 year left.... play out your deal and walk.

He had an optional further year which we could have activated to ensure he didn’t walk for nothing.

shine166 said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

shine166 said:

Pelling1993 said:

I know people keep blaming Jones for getting rid of May, but wasn't he leaving regardless? Thought the wife stuff was the main reason for the move

I'm pretty sure that's BS and even if true he was under contract with 1 year left.... play out your deal and walk.

Not so sure. Mays face didn’t fit with Jones. One year left and a good price agreed with Birmingham. Increase in wages for May. Pretty obvious we’d have had a problem squaring that circle.

Which ties in with the bollox comment. 700k isn't and wasnt a good deal for AM as has been proven.

What's pretty obvious is that we chose to sell him and it might end up being the worse transfer decision in a decade. 

ElfsborgAddick said:

eaststandmike said:

Callumcafc said:

Six league games lost after 25 in charge.

I really can’t get behind any calls to sack another manager when he stopped the bleeding post Holden & Appleton.

If this losing run continues much longer maybe there’s a conversation to have approaching Christmas.

Christmas you say? 😁😁😁

Yep, what is the xg on being served chicken instead of turkey.

Croydon said:

shine166 said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

shine166 said:

Pelling1993 said:

I know people keep blaming Jones for getting rid of May, but wasn't he leaving regardless? Thought the wife stuff was the main reason for the move

I'm pretty sure that's BS and even if true he was under contract with 1 year left.... play out your deal and walk.

Not so sure. Mays face didn’t fit with Jones. One year left and a good price agreed with Birmingham. Increase in wages for May. Pretty obvious we’d have had a problem squaring that circle.

Which ties in with the bollox comment. 700k isn't and wasnt a good deal for AM as has been proven.

What's pretty obvious is that we chose to sell him and it might end up being the worse transfer decision in a decade. 

What's insane is how plenty of people at the time just bought into it, no questions asked. Mental gymnastics trying to convince themselves May only scored penalties and that because we'd had a shit season, it was fine to let him go.

"Jones' style doesn't use small forwards" - Why are we persisting with playing Campbell out of position then?

"May doesn't fit the system." - What system?

"Trust in Jones" - How's that playing out?

PragueAddick said:

DubaiCAFC said:

Garrymanilow said:

PragueAddick said:

@Swisdom your post above implies that Ahadme was a specific Jones choice. Is that the case AFAYK, and did you hear about other strikers that were ahead of him in the list? ( there must have been a list, surely?)

Theo Bair was meant to be our first choice wasn't he? Ended up going to Auxerre for £1.6m + £500k in add ons so we were blown out of the water on that one

This who was meant to be our top target, but was out of our budget.

And that illustrates my point, selling a proven striker is sooooo easy, and replacing him with someone better is hard, and take serious wage.

Of course May was interested when other clubs came sniffing. Why stay when its obvious the manager doesnt rate you?

Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:

Scoham said:

superdulvertonred said:

Why are we so impatient as a fan group keeping on sacking the manager will get as no where as the recent past has shown us
NJ came in last season and stopped the rot we had an impressive start this season and his reputation on here was great. 

Now after just nine games people are calling for him to be sacked. I personally think he will turn this round and still expect us to make the playoffs let’s all chill and see what happens 

It’s the style of play that’s so concerning. Trying to grind our way through games. Even if it took us up (it won’t without improvements) there’s little chance of competing in the Championship playing the same way.

I had hoped we’d progress from last season with some good signings, a fitter team, improved defending, set pieces and more attacking threat. We’ve seen some of those things until recently when most of it has fallen apart.

After each defeat Jones continues to talk about aggression and winning battles. He’s mentioned our attacking play too, but we’ve not seen any progress. His attempt to improve our possession and attacking play was to drop Mitchell for REG - defenders being comfortable on the ball helps, but our issues are far deeper than that and REG is hardly a stand out ball playing defender.

I’m not saying he needs to go now, but he does need to rethink this style of play. I’m not convinced the players want to play this way and that’s not going to lead to consistency and success.

I can't help but have a nagging feeling he brought in Campbell, Potts and Hylton to help him sell his vision to an increasingly sceptical squad.
I also fear he may having to face up to the question, what do I do when what worked for me in the past no longer works.
It's pointless calling for his head, for better or worse we need to give him a chance to turn it around.
Ultimately though, it doesn't matter what the fans think, if we continue losing games the decision will be taken by the board.
I fear the worst, but then I have long given up hope of a return to former glories, certainly within my lifetime.
If somebody had asked me 15 or 20 years ago what is the worst I could wish upon Palace or Millwall, we have been fcuking living it.

Gisappointed said:

Nathan Jones, he has been here too long.

Chizz said:

For those suggesting that changing the manager now (or soon) would be a recipe for success, history has some stories which would challenge that.  In the more than 100 years that Charlton have been playing professionally, it's worth considering how many times a Chairman has changed a manager and seen that manager bring success, measured in promotion.  

Many have tried.  Almost every one has failed.  In fact there are - if my sources are correct - just four Chairmen who have retained their position while a manager they appointed has gone on to win promotion.  As they say in cricket, it's four with the power to add, because, presumably, James Rodwell will want to see his current manager go on to win promotion while he's still in the hot seat.  But that's just four, out of twenty (depending on how it's counted).  Four times in over a hundred years.  That's once in a generation.  (And two of those were related).  It's very rare for a Charlton Chairman to achieve promotion with a manager he - or she - has appointed.  So, question one for those people who insist that now is time to change manager: what gives you unshakeable faith that Rodwell will - with his next appointment - join such a select group? 

Promotion-winning Charlton managers are also exceedingly rare.  MacFarlane in tier 3. Seed in tier 3 and 2. Nelson and Bailey in tier 3. Lawrence and Curbishley in tier 2.  Powell and ten appointments later, Bowyer, in tier 3.  So, question two for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that Charlton is such an attractive, stable place for a successful manager to be the twelfth (temporary or permanent) manager since way back in 2021? 

It's not easy getting promoted.  It's even harder getting promoted immediately.  Presumably those that are arguing that the result of yet another managerial change will bring immediate success.  So, how often has that happened?  About once every fifty years.  In short, it occurred in the twentieth century as often as a world war.  So, question three for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that the fluke of Alex MacFarlane's and Mike Bailey's appointments will be replicated in the coming weeks? 



Successful Charlton managers success when they are given - among other things - time.  List the greatest managers Charlton have ever had. And then think about how long it took them to achieve their first success.  As @Stig pointed out on another thread, it took Jimmy Seed 1,081 days to achieve top flight football.  Lennie Lawrence did it in 1,258.  And Curbishley took 2,497.  What success would we have had if they had been sacked in their first, full season?  In fact, I will go further, if Jimmy Seed had been subjected to the impatience of Charlton's more recent past, we wouldn't have a Charlton now.  

The worst decision Charlton could make right now would be to sack Nathan Jones.  

Chizz said:

For those suggesting that changing the manager now (or soon) would be a recipe for success, history has some stories which would challenge that.  In the more than 100 years that Charlton have been playing professionally, it's worth considering how many times a Chairman has changed a manager and seen that manager bring success, measured in promotion.  

Many have tried.  Almost every one has failed.  In fact there are - if my sources are correct - just four Chairmen who have retained their position while a manager they appointed has gone on to win promotion.  As they say in cricket, it's four with the power to add, because, presumably, James Rodwell will want to see his current manager go on to win promotion while he's still in the hot seat.  But that's just four, out of twenty (depending on how it's counted).  Four times in over a hundred years.  That's once in a generation.  (And two of those were related).  It's very rare for a Charlton Chairman to achieve promotion with a manager he - or she - has appointed.  So, question one for those people who insist that now is time to change manager: what gives you unshakeable faith that Rodwell will - with his next appointment - join such a select group? 

Promotion-winning Charlton managers are also exceedingly rare.  MacFarlane in tier 3. Seed in tier 3 and 2. Nelson and Bailey in tier 3. Lawrence and Curbishley in tier 2.  Powell and ten appointments later, Bowyer, in tier 3.  So, question two for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that Charlton is such an attractive, stable place for a successful manager to be the twelfth (temporary or permanent) manager since way back in 2021? 

It's not easy getting promoted.  It's even harder getting promoted immediately.  Presumably those that are arguing that the result of yet another managerial change will bring immediate success.  So, how often has that happened?  About once every fifty years.  In short, it occurred in the twentieth century as often as a world war.  So, question three for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that the fluke of Alex MacFarlane's and Mike Bailey's appointments will be replicated in the coming weeks? 



Successful Charlton managers success when they are given - among other things - time.  List the greatest managers Charlton have ever had. And then think about how long it took them to achieve their first success.  As @Stig pointed out on another thread, it took Jimmy Seed 1,081 days to achieve top flight football.  Lennie Lawrence did it in 1,258.  And Curbishley took 2,497.  What success would we have had if they had been sacked in their first, full season?  In fact, I will go further, if Jimmy Seed had been subjected to the impatience of Charlton's more recent past, we wouldn't have a Charlton now.  

The worst decision Charlton could make right now would be to sack Nathan Jones.  

Chunes said:

I think it would be bonkers to sack Jones now and even if we don't pick up a win in the next 2-3. It's his squad and he's definitely got it in him to turn it around. Whether his heart is in it with Cardiff job open is another matter. 

If I was in the SMT I'd be asking for a public commitment.