For those suggesting that changing the manager now (or soon) would be a recipe for success, history has some stories which would challenge that. In the more than 100 years that Charlton have been playing professionally, it's worth considering how many times a Chairman has changed a manager and seen that manager bring success, measured in promotion.
Many have tried. Almost every one has failed. In fact there are - if my sources are correct - just four Chairmen who have retained their position while a manager they appointed has gone on to win promotion. As they say in cricket, it's four with the power to add, because, presumably, James Rodwell will want to see his current manager go on to win promotion while he's still in the hot seat. But that's just four, out of twenty (depending on how it's counted). Four times in over a hundred years. That's once in a generation. (And two of those were related). It's very rare for a Charlton Chairman to achieve promotion with a manager he - or she - has appointed. So, question one for those people who insist that now is time to change manager: what gives you unshakeable faith that Rodwell will - with his next appointment - join such a select group?
Promotion-winning Charlton managers are also exceedingly rare. MacFarlane in tier 3. Seed in tier 3 and 2. Nelson and Bailey in tier 3. Lawrence and Curbishley in tier 2. Powell and ten appointments later, Bowyer, in tier 3. So, question two for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that Charlton is such an attractive, stable place for a successful manager to be the twelfth (temporary or permanent) manager since way back in 2021?
It's not easy getting promoted. It's even harder getting promoted immediately. Presumably those that are arguing that the result of yet another managerial change will bring immediate success. So, how often has that happened? About once every fifty years. In short, it occurred in the twentieth century as often as a world war. So, question three for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that the fluke of Alex MacFarlane's and Mike Bailey's appointments will be replicated in the coming weeks?
Successful Charlton managers success when they are given - among other things - time. List the greatest managers Charlton have ever had. And then think about how long it took them to achieve their first success. As @Stig pointed out on another thread, it took Jimmy Seed 1,081 days to achieve top flight football. Lennie Lawrence did it in 1,258. And Curbishley took 2,497. What success would we have had if they had been sacked in their first, full season? In fact, I will go further, if Jimmy Seed had been subjected to the impatience of Charlton's more recent past, we wouldn't have a Charlton now.
The worst decision Charlton could make right now would be to sack Nathan Jones.
Theres one variable you are missing - quality of squad. I don't think this squad is good enough to get promoted, you could go on for 3000+ days with making no improvements and we would still be in league 1.
If you think the squad isn't good enough, then changing the manager definitely isn't the answer.
Jones needs to change tactics and I have no doubt he’s a good enough coach to be able to do that. The question is, will he ? Known for doing things his way or the highway and being stubborn and looking in from the outside not a little batshit crazy.
For those suggesting that changing the manager now (or soon) would be a recipe for success, history has some stories which would challenge that. In the more than 100 years that Charlton have been playing professionally, it's worth considering how many times a Chairman has changed a manager and seen that manager bring success, measured in promotion.
Many have tried. Almost every one has failed. In fact there are - if my sources are correct - just four Chairmen who have retained their position while a manager they appointed has gone on to win promotion. As they say in cricket, it's four with the power to add, because, presumably, James Rodwell will want to see his current manager go on to win promotion while he's still in the hot seat. But that's just four, out of twenty (depending on how it's counted). Four times in over a hundred years. That's once in a generation. (And two of those were related). It's very rare for a Charlton Chairman to achieve promotion with a manager he - or she - has appointed. So, question one for those people who insist that now is time to change manager: what gives you unshakeable faith that Rodwell will - with his next appointment - join such a select group?
Promotion-winning Charlton managers are also exceedingly rare. MacFarlane in tier 3. Seed in tier 3 and 2. Nelson and Bailey in tier 3. Lawrence and Curbishley in tier 2. Powell and ten appointments later, Bowyer, in tier 3. So, question two for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that Charlton is such an attractive, stable place for a successful manager to be the twelfth (temporary or permanent) manager since way back in 2021?
It's not easy getting promoted. It's even harder getting promoted immediately. Presumably those that are arguing that the result of yet another managerial change will bring immediate success. So, how often has that happened? About once every fifty years. In short, it occurred in the twentieth century as often as a world war. So, question three for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that the fluke of Alex MacFarlane's and Mike Bailey's appointments will be replicated in the coming weeks?
Successful Charlton managers success when they are given - among other things - time. List the greatest managers Charlton have ever had. And then think about how long it took them to achieve their first success. As @Stig pointed out on another thread, it took Jimmy Seed 1,081 days to achieve top flight football. Lennie Lawrence did it in 1,258. And Curbishley took 2,497. What success would we have had if they had been sacked in their first, full season? In fact, I will go further, if Jimmy Seed had been subjected to the impatience of Charlton's more recent past, we wouldn't have a Charlton now.
The worst decision Charlton could make right now would be to sack Nathan Jones.
Theres one variable you are missing - quality of squad. I don't think this squad is good enough to get promoted, you could go on for 3000+ days with making no improvements and we would still be in league 1.
If you think the squad isn't good enough, then changing the manager definitely isn't the answer.
I think it would be bonkers to sack Jones now and even if we don't pick up a win in the next 2-3. It's his squad and he's definitely got it in him to turn it around. Whether his heart is in it with Cardiff job open is another matter.
If I was in the SMT I'd be asking for a public commitment.
He made a public comment, and Jones confirmed that he is not interested at present, but maybe in the future. He could not have been more clear in his desire to stay with us.
I heard that interview and he said he'd never turn the job down. Are we talking about the same one?
For those suggesting that changing the manager now (or soon) would be a recipe for success, history has some stories which would challenge that. In the more than 100 years that Charlton have been playing professionally, it's worth considering how many times a Chairman has changed a manager and seen that manager bring success, measured in promotion.
Many have tried. Almost every one has failed. In fact there are - if my sources are correct - just four Chairmen who have retained their position while a manager they appointed has gone on to win promotion. As they say in cricket, it's four with the power to add, because, presumably, James Rodwell will want to see his current manager go on to win promotion while he's still in the hot seat. But that's just four, out of twenty (depending on how it's counted). Four times in over a hundred years. That's once in a generation. (And two of those were related). It's very rare for a Charlton Chairman to achieve promotion with a manager he - or she - has appointed. So, question one for those people who insist that now is time to change manager: what gives you unshakeable faith that Rodwell will - with his next appointment - join such a select group?
Promotion-winning Charlton managers are also exceedingly rare. MacFarlane in tier 3. Seed in tier 3 and 2. Nelson and Bailey in tier 3. Lawrence and Curbishley in tier 2. Powell and ten appointments later, Bowyer, in tier 3. So, question two for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that Charlton is such an attractive, stable place for a successful manager to be the twelfth (temporary or permanent) manager since way back in 2021?
It's not easy getting promoted. It's even harder getting promoted immediately. Presumably those that are arguing that the result of yet another managerial change will bring immediate success. So, how often has that happened? About once every fifty years. In short, it occurred in the twentieth century as often as a world war. So, question three for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that the fluke of Alex MacFarlane's and Mike Bailey's appointments will be replicated in the coming weeks?
Successful Charlton managers success when they are given - among other things - time. List the greatest managers Charlton have ever had. And then think about how long it took them to achieve their first success. As @Stig pointed out on another thread, it took Jimmy Seed 1,081 days to achieve top flight football. Lennie Lawrence did it in 1,258. And Curbishley took 2,497. What success would we have had if they had been sacked in their first, full season? In fact, I will go further, if Jimmy Seed had been subjected to the impatience of Charlton's more recent past, we wouldn't have a Charlton now.
The worst decision Charlton could make right now would be to sack Nathan Jones.
Would love to see those highlighted in the middle table who failed to get a full season in charge.
You'd have to go back to the last highlighted name in Red to find someone.
Nearly EVERY season, we go into the year with a new Manager (Holden and Adkins are the only two to get Summer Transfer Windows, having had the luxury of evaluating the squad before the previous season had finished) - Meaning that the summers we've gotten round to, the new Manager ends up having a clear out of the players they dont want, bringing in the ones they want.
No stability within the squad... No stability within the Management... How the F**K are we ever getting anywhere upwards with that attitude?
A sign of madness is repeating the same failed approach, and expecting different results each time... and I'm simply amazed we're not getting them.
I think it would be bonkers to sack Jones now and even if we don't pick up a win in the next 2-3. It's his squad and he's definitely got it in him to turn it around. Whether his heart is in it with Cardiff job open is another matter.
If I was in the SMT I'd be asking for a public commitment.
He made a public comment, and Jones confirmed that he is not interested at present, but maybe in the future. He could not have been more clear in his desire to stay with us.
I heard that interview and he said he'd never turn the job down. Are we talking about the same one?
I imagine we are talking a different one as I can only repeat my earlier post.
Plenty of good posts here that I agree with in part or wholly. As so often @AFKABartram catches my mood and that of so many others.
If I had the chance to interview Methven again (fat chance) I would ask him the following questions, which of course he would deflect at best:
1.Clearly Jones demanded classic “managerial” control before signing up. Most of us were happy you agreed. However when he decided he wanted to shift May on, did you or others interrogate him over this mother of all big calls?
2. Having agreed that he could shift May on, how quickly did you agree on a plan to replace him?
3. Is Ahadme the most expensive sigining in the window? Who shortlisted him? How happy was Jones with him as a choice?
4. The week before the Blackpool game the mood in the camp was apparently harmonious, as you’d expect from a team sitting 3rd in the table. What happened that week to turn them into the team of clueless strangers we saw against Blackpool?
5. Specifically did you ask Jones why he dropped Mitchell?
6. Mitchell has claimed that he received no explanation from the manager as to why he was dropped. Is that correct and if so do you consider this to be adequate management.?
7. while all managers want more than they get from the window, were there any specific areas of concern NJ expressed after the window closed? Could those concerns have been addressed with a loan?
i am definitely in the camp that says constantly churning managers is insane. I was in favour of giving him a long contract and very happy that we seemed to back him, early, in the window. But last night looked and felt as bad as the last days of Appleton. I dont understand how it could turn so bad so quickly. I’d have a more imformed opinion if I knew the answers to the above questions.
Think you are forgetting, May wanted to go as well, soon as Huddersfield and Brum were in for him, he wanted to go..
Why would the ownership get involved in team selection, and none of there business really, how Jones dropped or why he dropped Mitchell.
Not sure why it is all looping back around to the ownership at the moment, Jones was seen by most as a good appointment, he has been given the tools, which failing him at the moment. I am not sure sacking him is the right answer at the moment, and he will turn it around.. The issue is, he clearly needs to change the style of play. Look at the teams that have been successful over the last few years, they have been possession based football.
I believe Jones will turn this around, and we have good enough players to turn it around.. But promotion is going to be a tough ask now, that's for sure!
May wanted to go because Jones had made it clear he didn't rate him and frankly had taken the piss out of him by continually substituting him in the final games of last season when May was going for the leading scorer title.
No wonder when Huddersfield and Birmingham came in for him he wanted to go.
Surely anyone with 2 brain cells would have looked at May, worked out he was good for 20 goals in this league and tried to build the team around him instead of giving him the cold shoulder.
Jones has made his own bed. I suspect he won't be sleeping in it very comfortably at the moment.
I'm not talking about promotion though. I'm talking about survival. In previous years I've laughed at the idea we'll go down (even when things have looked dire). This season? I think we're in a death-spiral already
I really can’t get behind any calls to sack another manager when he stopped the bleeding post Holden & Appleton.
If this losing run continues much longer maybe there’s a conversation to have approaching Christmas.
We were 3-0 down to the team with the worst Xg/Xa.
They had crap stats tonight as well, it’s not as if they created much and deserved to have scored three times.
It’s a “when it rains it pours” situation right now. We could with a team not putting two in the top corner from outside the area when we’re trying to break a losing run.
That was only the fourth time this L1 season where a team has managed to score twice from outside the area. There’s been 102 matches played. 1 in 25.5. Once every couple of weeks it happens. It happened tonight.
We have problems AND we were very unlucky at the same time to make for an especially shit evening all around.
But that's because we gave then acres of space on the edge of the box. These weren't 30-yard worldies, they were simply well placed shots from the edge of the box under no pressure. That's calamitous defending, and the hard-to-breakdown, no easy goals thing that Jones had going (and was his only real selling point this season) us clearly gone.
Berry was about as tight as you’d ask a midfielder to be on the edge of the box. Sinclair got the shot off and went top corner anyway.
Anderson was a marginally out of position but threw his body at the shot to get in the way. Lindsay’s shot went in the top corner anyway.
Everyone is talking as if we rolled out the red carpet for them on both occasions. We didn’t do anything close to that and sometimes the shot just flies in the net anyway despite your best effort.
Our closing down certainly wasn’t any worse than you’ll see from Bristol Rovers or other sides at our level.
Nonsense. Many/most teams block shots like "their lives depend on it". Neither Berry nor Anderson did their utmost to stop the shots.
Reflected on it all and I want it to work for Jones, we need to stick with a hand at some point, and I think we have been dealt a pretty decent hand.
We are never going to lure a manager who plays liquid, attacking football, it just rarely happens in this league. He needs time and he needs some cash and he will get it right.
I hope he gets a good reception at the weekend and we back him collectively as he looked really deflated when I spoke to him briefly yesterday and I'm sick of the shuffling of managers every season.
It took Portsmouth from 2017/18 to get promoted, Peterborough God knows how long, ditto Oxford. Sunderland 3-4 seasons, Ipswich the same.
If we keep this core group of solid players and strengthen gradually, I have no doubts we can go up with Jones at the helm and stay up.
I'm still annoyed about the Cardiff comments, as I think it was completely unnecessary and it could be linked with our bad form potentially, but it is what it is. I'd rather build with Jones this season than get a new manager in and start all over again.
I really can’t get behind any calls to sack another manager when he stopped the bleeding post Holden & Appleton.
If this losing run continues much longer maybe there’s a conversation to have approaching Christmas.
We were 3-0 down to the team with the worst Xg/Xa.
They had crap stats tonight as well, it’s not as if they created much and deserved to have scored three times.
It’s a “when it rains it pours” situation right now. We could with a team not putting two in the top corner from outside the area when we’re trying to break a losing run.
That was only the fourth time this L1 season where a team has managed to score twice from outside the area. There’s been 102 matches played. 1 in 25.5. Once every couple of weeks it happens. It happened tonight.
We have problems AND we were very unlucky at the same time to make for an especially shit evening all around.
But that's because we gave then acres of space on the edge of the box. These weren't 30-yard worldies, they were simply well placed shots from the edge of the box under no pressure. That's calamitous defending, and the hard-to-breakdown, no easy goals thing that Jones had going (and was his only real selling point this season) us clearly gone.
Berry was about as tight as you’d ask a midfielder to be on the edge of the box. Sinclair got the shot off and went top corner anyway.
Anderson was a marginally out of position but threw his body at the shot to get in the way. Lindsay’s shot went in the top corner anyway.
Everyone is talking as if we rolled out the red carpet for them on both occasions. We didn’t do anything close to that and sometimes the shot just flies in the net anyway despite your best effort.
Our closing down certainly wasn’t any worse than you’ll see from Bristol Rovers or other sides at our level.
Nonsense. Many/most teams block shots like "their lives depend on it". Neither Berry nor Anderson did their utmost to stop the shots.
Berry was tight to his man - it would have been nice to see him be more aggressive in that moment and snapping at heels but he’s an attack minded player that hasn’t been picked for his tackling so I’m hardly surprised that that’s how it played out.
Anderson literally threw his whole body at the shot, he just didn’t get anything on it because his starting position was poor.
Coventry had a shot last night from outside the area that hardly any Bristol Rovers players bothered to block, yet their shots flew into the net and his was tipped over. 🤷♂️
Reflected on it all and I want it to work for Jones, we need to stick with a hand at some point, and I think we have been dealt a pretty decent hand.
We are never going to lure a manager who plays liquid, attacking football, it just rarely happens in this league. He needs time and he needs some cash and he will get it right.
I hope he gets a good reception at the weekend and we back him collectively as he looked really deflated when I spoke to him briefly yesterday and I'm sick of the shuffling of managers every season.
It took Portsmouth from 2017/18 to get promoted, Peterborough God knows how long, ditto Oxford. Sunderland 3-4 seasons, Ipswich the same.
If we keep this core group of solid players and strengthen gradually, I have no doubts we can go up with Jones at the helm and stay up.
I'm still annoyed about the Cardiff comments, as I think it was completely unnecessary and it could be linked with our bad form potentially, but it is what it is. I'd rather build with Jones this season than get a new manager in and start all over again.
Thanks, Braziliance. I've ruminated all day about how I'm feeling about Jones and us in general and your post puts it perfectly. I'll be giving him and the players nothing but encouragement on Saturday (frankly, why would I do anything else?) and I reckon we've a decent performance coming our way.
*I hope no one recollects what I said ahead of Bristol Rovers on the tickets thread...
I really can’t get behind any calls to sack another manager when he stopped the bleeding post Holden & Appleton.
If this losing run continues much longer maybe there’s a conversation to have approaching Christmas.
This is kind of where I am too.
Remember sacking a manager is only half of the equation. I was very vocal about Holden needing to go after four games last season, and I maintain that was what needed to happen. However, there weren't a lot of managers out there willing to join us, and we ended up with Apples. I think Jones has higher potential than anyone out there who would join us at this point. He'd also be incredibly expensive to sack I assume.
I will say, we did look to get it down and play it a bit in the second half yesterday. It was subtle, it wasn't great, but it was better. That gives me a bit of hope that Jones saw the problem. Not a lot of hope, but a bit of hope. Now the question is, can he change it?
Docherty looked better playing deeper, and quite frankly, he hasn't looked great further up the pitch so I wonder if dropped him off in possession could help us work the ball through midfield. Berry has a goal in him but he looks useless outside of the final third. Anderson looks a different calibre in the final third but isn't great at the chase ball Jones' system requires.
I'd love to see us go back to the double pivot on Saturday with TT and Coventry at the base and Anderson in the freer role ahead of them. This almost certainly won't happen, but when we played it when Jones first came in using Dobbo and Coventry as a double pivot, we looked solid defensively.
I really can’t get behind any calls to sack another manager when he stopped the bleeding post Holden & Appleton.
If this losing run continues much longer maybe there’s a conversation to have approaching Christmas.
This is kind of where I am too.
Remember sacking a manager is only half of the equation. I was very vocal about Holden needing to go after four games last season, and I maintain that was what needed to happen. However, there weren't a lot of managers out there willing to join us, and we ended up with Apples. I think Jones has higher potential than anyone out there who would join us at this point. He'd also be incredibly expensive to sack I assume.
And this is the crux of the problem and the situation we are in.
@Swisdom your post above implies that Ahadme was a specific Jones choice. Is that the case AFAYK, and did you hear about other strikers that were ahead of him in the list? ( there must have been a list, surely?)
Theo Bair was meant to be our first choice wasn't he? Ended up going to Auxerre for £1.6m + £500k in add ons so we were blown out of the water on that one
This who was meant to be our top target, but was out of our budget.
And that illustrates my point, selling a proven striker is sooooo easy, and replacing him with someone better is hard, and take serious wage.
Of course May was interested when other clubs came sniffing. Why stay when its obvious the manager doesnt rate you?
Even if he did rate him, he wanted to go north, and earn a lot more money.. Can go around in circles about May, he isn't here..
Godden is May's replacement.. How many league goals had May scored by this time last season?
By the 1st October last year, May had 4 goals.. Godden has 3 over last minutes on the pitch.. That's not to say Godden will go on to score as many, but he will certainly score his fair share this season!
If Godden is May's replacement why has he rarely featured?
Why are we so impatient as a fan group keeping on sacking the manager will get as no where as the recent past has shown us NJ came in last season and stopped the rot we had an impressive start this season and his reputation on here was great.
Now after just nine games people are calling for him to be sacked. I personally think he will turn this round and still expect us to make the playoffs let’s all chill and see what happens
It’s the style of play that’s so concerning. Trying to grind our way through games. Even if it took us up (it won’t without improvements) there’s little chance of competing in the Championship playing the same way.
I had hoped we’d progress from last season with some good signings, a fitter team, improved defending, set pieces and more attacking threat. We’ve seen some of those things until recently when most of it has fallen apart.
After each defeat Jones continues to talk about aggression and winning battles. He’s mentioned our attacking play too, but we’ve not seen any progress. His attempt to improve our possession and attacking play was to drop Mitchell for REG - defenders being comfortable on the ball helps, but our issues are far deeper than that and REG is hardly a stand out ball playing defender.
I’m not saying he needs to go now, but he does need to rethink this style of play. I’m not convinced the players want to play this way and that’s not going to lead to consistency and success.
I can't help but have a nagging feeling he brought in Campbell, Potts and Hylton to help him sell his vision to an increasingly sceptical squad. I also fear he may having to face up to the question, what do I do when what worked for me in the past no longer works. It's pointless calling for his head, for better or worse we need to give him a chance to turn it around. Ultimately though, it doesn't matter what the fans think, if we continue losing games the decision will be taken by the board. I fear the worst, but then I have long given up hope of a return to former glories, certainly within my lifetime. If somebody had asked me 15 or 20 years ago what is the worst I could wish upon Palace or Millwall, we have been fcuking living it.
I think he definitely wanted Potts, Hylton and then Campbell to "back him" and to prove that his way works.
I really can’t get behind any calls to sack another manager when he stopped the bleeding post Holden & Appleton.
If this losing run continues much longer maybe there’s a conversation to have approaching Christmas.
We were 3-0 down to the team with the worst Xg/Xa.
They had crap stats tonight as well, it’s not as if they created much and deserved to have scored three times.
It’s a “when it rains it pours” situation right now. We could with a team not putting two in the top corner from outside the area when we’re trying to break a losing run.
That was only the fourth time this L1 season where a team has managed to score twice from outside the area. There’s been 102 matches played. 1 in 25.5. Once every couple of weeks it happens. It happened tonight.
We have problems AND we were very unlucky at the same time to make for an especially shit evening all around.
But that's because we gave then acres of space on the edge of the box. These weren't 30-yard worldies, they were simply well placed shots from the edge of the box under no pressure. That's calamitous defending, and the hard-to-breakdown, no easy goals thing that Jones had going (and was his only real selling point this season) us clearly gone.
Berry was about as tight as you’d ask a midfielder to be on the edge of the box. Sinclair got the shot off and went top corner anyway.
Anderson was a marginally out of position but threw his body at the shot to get in the way. Lindsay’s shot went in the top corner anyway.
Everyone is talking as if we rolled out the red carpet for them on both occasions. We didn’t do anything close to that and sometimes the shot just flies in the net anyway despite your best effort.
Our closing down certainly wasn’t any worse than you’ll see from Bristol Rovers or other sides at our level.
Nonsense. Many/most teams block shots like "their lives depend on it". Neither Berry nor Anderson did their utmost to stop the shots.
Berry was tight to his man - it would have been nice to see him be more aggressive in that moment and snapping at heels but he’s an attack minded player that hasn’t been picked for his tackling so I’m hardly surprised that that’s how it played out.
Anderson literally threw his whole body at the shot, he just didn’t get anything on it because his starting position was poor.
Coventry had a shot last night from outside the area that hardly any Bristol Rovers players bothered to block, yet their shots flew into the net and his was tipped over. 🤷♂️
Exactly, Berry was reasonably tight to the scorer but made a half hearted attempt to block. He certainly didn't "throw" his body in the way and if he had of done the shot would have been blocked.
Yes I also agree that Anderson did throw his body at the shot but as you say he was too far away to block the shot.
Both shots could and should have been blocked if the defending was better.
For those suggesting that changing the manager now (or soon) would be a recipe for success, history has some stories which would challenge that. In the more than 100 years that Charlton have been playing professionally, it's worth considering how many times a Chairman has changed a manager and seen that manager bring success, measured in promotion.
Many have tried. Almost every one has failed. In fact there are - if my sources are correct - just four Chairmen who have retained their position while a manager they appointed has gone on to win promotion. As they say in cricket, it's four with the power to add, because, presumably, James Rodwell will want to see his current manager go on to win promotion while he's still in the hot seat. But that's just four, out of twenty (depending on how it's counted). Four times in over a hundred years. That's once in a generation. (And two of those were related). It's very rare for a Charlton Chairman to achieve promotion with a manager he - or she - has appointed. So, question one for those people who insist that now is time to change manager: what gives you unshakeable faith that Rodwell will - with his next appointment - join such a select group?
Promotion-winning Charlton managers are also exceedingly rare. MacFarlane in tier 3. Seed in tier 3 and 2. Nelson and Bailey in tier 3. Lawrence and Curbishley in tier 2. Powell and ten appointments later, Bowyer, in tier 3. So, question two for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that Charlton is such an attractive, stable place for a successful manager to be the twelfth (temporary or permanent) manager since way back in 2021?
It's not easy getting promoted. It's even harder getting promoted immediately. Presumably those that are arguing that the result of yet another managerial change will bring immediate success. So, how often has that happened? About once every fifty years. In short, it occurred in the twentieth century as often as a world war. So, question three for those people who insist that now is the time to change manager: what gives you the unshakeable faith that the fluke of Alex MacFarlane's and Mike Bailey's appointments will be replicated in the coming weeks?
Successful Charlton managers success when they are given - among other things - time. List the greatest managers Charlton have ever had. And then think about how long it took them to achieve their first success. As @Stig pointed out on another thread, it took Jimmy Seed 1,081 days to achieve top flight football. Lennie Lawrence did it in 1,258. And Curbishley took 2,497. What success would we have had if they had been sacked in their first, full season? In fact, I will go further, if Jimmy Seed had been subjected to the impatience of Charlton's more recent past, we wouldn't have a Charlton now.
The worst decision Charlton could make right now would be to sack Nathan Jones.
From Jimmy Seed to Curbs, 13 permanent managers in 73 years. We've had the same number in the last decade. Pretty embarrassing and tells us everything we need to know about our current plight.
I don't think 90% of supporters want to see yet another change of manager. But the first step in getting things right, is acknowledging that you got it wrong.
Jones has partly done that, but he seems to be totally ignoring the main problem, which is not playing enough decent football, and not creating enough chances.
We have a solid backline with Jones and Mitchell in the middle, Small/Edwards & Ramsey.
We could have a decent forward line with Leaburn, Gooden with T Campbell and perhaps Dixon on the wings.
In midfield we have a plethora of defensive/holding midfielders. We just seem to be lacking that attacking/creative midfielder. But if we were to revert to a 442, with wingers, that role wouldn't be quite as important and Berry may well be a decent enough fit there.
I really don't think the wingback/high press system is going to work, and it requires a complete rethink.
It baffles me that anyone thought Jones would change his style this season. Managers generally don't and if they do, they revert back over time anyway.
I'm also slightly surprised that people signed up to Jones quite so eagerly given that there was always a chance it was Luton that was the outlier rather than Stoke or Southampton.
I think us and Jones are manacled together for the foreseeable future so it has to work. How we're going to make that happen is beyond me.
I reckon I’ve mentioned this ten times on here but 1) no Cnut reads what I write 2) plenty of you have the memory of a goldfish
very early on in Jones’s tenure Alfie spoke to my mate who half knew Alfie from junior footy , he said “Jones doesn’t fancy me and I’ve tried to talk to him about it but he blanks me “ and that he was happy at Charlton Two months later my mate had another convo and Alfie May said “still no discussion , he doesn’t rate me “
Alfie knew the manager was forcing him out and of course financially he’s benefitted but it would never have come to this if the manager had rated him there would be no discussion with other clubs unless he was clearly tapped up .
Mitchell when dropped said to someone Jones didn’t give him a reason , that’s poor management
Jones has all the enthusiasm in the world but he’s crackers imo and has limited man management ability . I’ll say it now he won’t get us promoted . We all want him to but it’s not happening imo
Football is not the game it was years back when everyone was playing on the same level playing field .
I’d rather roll the dice and give someone else a go if there’s no real improvement up to Christmas. Jones deserves to be given at least that and realistically probably the end of the season if it doesn’t get to out of hand .
I reckon I’ve mentioned this ten times on here but 1) no Cnut reads what I write 2) plenty of you have the memory of a goldfish
very early on in Jones’s tenure Alfie spoke to my mate who half knew Alfie from junior footy , he said “Jones doesn’t fancy me and I’ve tried to talk to him about it but he blanks me “ and that he was happy at Charlton Two months later my mate had another convo and Alfie May said “still no discussion , he doesn’t rate me “
Alfie knew the manager was forcing him out and of course financially he’s benefitted but it would never have come to this if the manager had rated him there would be no discussion with other clubs unless he was clearly tapped up .
Mitchell when dropped said to someone Jones didn’t give him a reason , that’s poor management
Jones has all the enthusiasm in the world but he’s crackers imo and has limited man management ability . I’ll say it now he won’t get us promoted . We all want him to but it’s not happening imo
Football is not the game it was years back when everyone was playing on the same level playing field .
I’d rather roll the dice and give someone else a go if there’s no real improvement up to Christmas. Jones deserves to be given at least that and realistically probably the end of the season if it doesn’t get to out of hand .
Also hauled small off during the first half of the Blackpool game for no clear reason, turned his back to a clearly disappointed Small when he returned to the dugout offering no explanation or even greeting to him and he hasn’t been in the squad since. Awful man management.
I have a mate who is a big Luton fan and he was telling me last night loads of their fans are actively calling for Jones back… they don’t rate Rob Edwards and feel like he’s ridden off the back of what Jones created… but they’re stuck with him cos they gave him a 4 year deal…
I blame Charlie and his SLT for this mess. They are just clueless clowns. They’ve appointed three managers so far and Jones is the only one to have improved anything (when he saved us from relegation). I can’t believe Andy Scott is twiddling his thumbs, doing nothing, he must be involved in recruitment. The Jones system has worked incredibly well in the past but the crucial elements are the big striker up top and the wing backs. Yet those seem to be the weakest parts of our recruitment over the summer. Jones is panicking and tinkering with selection when he knows the real reason it’s not working is because of those crucial positions. So yet again we got recruitment wrong. It doesn’t matter who the manager is we can’t seem to attract the right players. There’s a pattern forming and it coming right from the top.
I reckon I’ve mentioned this ten times on here but 1) no Cnut reads what I write 2) plenty of you have the memory of a goldfish
very early on in Jones’s tenure Alfie spoke to my mate who half knew Alfie from junior footy , he said “Jones doesn’t fancy me and I’ve tried to talk to him about it but he blanks me “ and that he was happy at Charlton Two months later my mate had another convo and Alfie May said “still no discussion , he doesn’t rate me “
Alfie knew the manager was forcing him out and of course financially he’s benefitted but it would never have come to this if the manager had rated him there would be no discussion with other clubs unless he was clearly tapped up .
Mitchell when dropped said to someone Jones didn’t give him a reason , that’s poor management
Jones has all the enthusiasm in the world but he’s crackers imo and has limited man management ability . I’ll say it now he won’t get us promoted . We all want him to but it’s not happening imo
Football is not the game it was years back when everyone was playing on the same level playing field .
I’d rather roll the dice and give someone else a go if there’s no real improvement up to Christmas. Jones deserves to be given at least that and realistically probably the end of the season if it doesn’t get to out of hand .
I'm with u mate! If you post something you have heard that's relevant from the inside it gets drowned out by the same posters, posting comments 100 times a day the same boring stuff. If it doesn't suit their agenda, they will say you made it up
I blame Charlie and his SLT for this mess. They are just clueless clowns. They’ve appointed three managers so far and Jones is the only one to have improved anything (when he saved us from relegation). I can’t believe Andy Scott is twiddling his thumbs, doing nothing, he must be involved in recruitment. The Jones system has worked incredibly well in the past but the crucial elements are the big striker up top and the wing backs. Yet those seem to be the weakest parts of our recruitment over the summer. Jones is panicking and tinkering with selection when he knows the real reason it’s not working is because of those crucial positions. So yet again we got recruitment wrong. It doesn’t matter who the manager is we can’t seem to attract the right players. There’s a pattern forming and it coming right from the top.
As far as I'm concerned, these are all Jones' signings. He certainly approved all of them vocally and enthusiastically
I blame Charlie and his SLT for this mess. They are just clueless clowns. They’ve appointed three managers so far and Jones is the only one to have improved anything (when he saved us from relegation). I can’t believe Andy Scott is twiddling his thumbs, doing nothing, he must be involved in recruitment. The Jones system has worked incredibly well in the past but the crucial elements are the big striker up top and the wing backs. Yet those seem to be the weakest parts of our recruitment over the summer. Jones is panicking and tinkering with selection when he knows the real reason it’s not working is because of those crucial positions. So yet again we got recruitment wrong. It doesn’t matter who the manager is we can’t seem to attract the right players. There’s a pattern forming and it coming right from the top.
In fairness to them, pretty much everyone was delighted when we got Jones as manager, and the general feeling was 'what a coup for a league one side'.
By all accounts it appears that Jones has been given free reign on transfers as well (happy to be corrected), hence we have signed a bunch of old Luton players, so i'm not sure we can point the blame at the SLT here. You can't sit there and seriously tell me Andy Scott would've sold Alfie May and signed the likes of Campbell, Potts and Hylton. That's on Jones, no one else.
Rovers fans I can take as a fair barometer as they’ve seen their side lose 4 in a row, 5 in 6. Yet the overriding comment from them was ‘can’t believe how poor Charlton are’
Comments
You'd have to go back to the last highlighted name in Red to find someone.
Nearly EVERY season, we go into the year with a new Manager (Holden and Adkins are the only two to get Summer Transfer Windows, having had the luxury of evaluating the squad before the previous season had finished) - Meaning that the summers we've gotten round to, the new Manager ends up having a clear out of the players they dont want, bringing in the ones they want.
No stability within the squad... No stability within the Management... How the F**K are we ever getting anywhere upwards with that attitude?
A sign of madness is repeating the same failed approach, and expecting different results each time... and I'm simply amazed we're not getting them.
No wonder when Huddersfield and Birmingham came in for him he wanted to go.
Surely anyone with 2 brain cells would have looked at May, worked out he was good for 20 goals in this league and tried to build the team around him instead of giving him the cold shoulder.
Jones has made his own bed. I suspect he won't be sleeping in it very comfortably at the moment.
Many/most teams block shots like "their lives depend on it".
Neither Berry nor Anderson did their utmost to stop the shots.
We are never going to lure a manager who plays liquid, attacking football, it just rarely happens in this league. He needs time and he needs some cash and he will get it right.
I hope he gets a good reception at the weekend and we back him collectively as he looked really deflated when I spoke to him briefly yesterday and I'm sick of the shuffling of managers every season.
It took Portsmouth from 2017/18 to get promoted, Peterborough God knows how long, ditto Oxford. Sunderland 3-4 seasons, Ipswich the same.
If we keep this core group of solid players and strengthen gradually, I have no doubts we can go up with Jones at the helm and stay up.
I'm still annoyed about the Cardiff comments, as I think it was completely unnecessary and it could be linked with our bad form potentially, but it is what it is. I'd rather build with Jones this season than get a new manager in and start all over again.
Anderson literally threw his whole body at the shot, he just didn’t get anything on it because his starting position was poor.
Coventry had a shot last night from outside the area that hardly any Bristol Rovers players bothered to block, yet their shots flew into the net and his was tipped over. 🤷♂️
*I hope no one recollects what I said ahead of Bristol Rovers on the tickets thread...
Remember sacking a manager is only half of the equation. I was very vocal about Holden needing to go after four games last season, and I maintain that was what needed to happen. However, there weren't a lot of managers out there willing to join us, and we ended up with Apples. I think Jones has higher potential than anyone out there who would join us at this point. He'd also be incredibly expensive to sack I assume.
I will say, we did look to get it down and play it a bit in the second half yesterday. It was subtle, it wasn't great, but it was better. That gives me a bit of hope that Jones saw the problem. Not a lot of hope, but a bit of hope. Now the question is, can he change it?
Docherty looked better playing deeper, and quite frankly, he hasn't looked great further up the pitch so I wonder if dropped him off in possession could help us work the ball through midfield. Berry has a goal in him but he looks useless outside of the final third. Anderson looks a different calibre in the final third but isn't great at the chase ball Jones' system requires.
I'd love to see us go back to the double pivot on Saturday with TT and Coventry at the base and Anderson in the freer role ahead of them. This almost certainly won't happen, but when we played it when Jones first came in using Dobbo and Coventry as a double pivot, we looked solid defensively.
He certainly didn't "throw" his body in the way and if he had of done the shot would have been blocked.
Yes I also agree that Anderson did throw his body at the shot but as you say he was too far away to block the shot.
Both shots could and should have been blocked if the defending was better.
But the first step in getting things right, is acknowledging that you got it wrong.
Jones has partly done that, but he seems to be totally ignoring the main problem, which is not playing enough decent football, and not creating enough chances.
We have a solid backline with Jones and Mitchell in the middle, Small/Edwards & Ramsey.
We could have a decent forward line with Leaburn, Gooden with T Campbell and perhaps Dixon on the wings.
In midfield we have a plethora of defensive/holding midfielders.
We just seem to be lacking that attacking/creative midfielder.
But if we were to revert to a 442, with wingers, that role wouldn't be quite as important and Berry may well be a decent enough fit there.
I really don't think the wingback/high press system is going to work, and it requires a complete rethink.
I'm also slightly surprised that people signed up to Jones quite so eagerly given that there was always a chance it was Luton that was the outlier rather than Stoke or Southampton.
very early on in Jones’s tenure Alfie spoke to my mate who half knew Alfie from junior footy , he said “Jones doesn’t fancy me and I’ve tried to talk to him about it but he blanks me “ and that he was happy at Charlton
Two months later my mate had another convo and Alfie May said “still no discussion , he doesn’t rate me “
Alfie knew the manager was forcing him out and of course financially he’s benefitted but it would never have come to this if the manager had rated him there would be no discussion with other clubs unless he was clearly tapped up .
Mitchell when dropped said to someone Jones didn’t give him a reason , that’s poor management
Jones has all the enthusiasm in the world but he’s crackers imo and has limited man management ability .
I’ll say it now he won’t get us promoted .
We all want him to but it’s not happening imo
Football is not the game it was years back when everyone was playing on the same level playing field .
I’d rather roll the dice and give someone else a go if there’s no real improvement up to Christmas.
Jones deserves to be given at least that and realistically probably the end of the season if it doesn’t get to out of hand .
I’d be up for a swap deal right now
If you post something you have heard that's relevant from the inside it gets drowned out by the same posters, posting comments 100 times a day the same boring stuff. If it doesn't suit their agenda, they will say you made it up
By all accounts it appears that Jones has been given free reign on transfers as well (happy to be corrected), hence we have signed a bunch of old Luton players, so i'm not sure we can point the blame at the SLT here. You can't sit there and seriously tell me Andy Scott would've sold Alfie May and signed the likes of Campbell, Potts and Hylton. That's on Jones, no one else.