The problem we have is that we are not clinical enough in front of goal. That has been the pattern in the last few games. We’ve been lucky though as the other teams have had the same problem. But today Posh were clinical going forward and took their goals well. Maybe it would have been different if Mannion hadn’t had that rush of blood to the head but, once we went behind, we just didn’t have it in us to get back into the game. Even though we had lots of chances I don’t remember their goalie being really tested. For me that could be a problem.
I posted this last week (and then backed up by @PragueAddick) and got pelters.
Perhaps it now might start sinking in.
It had sunk in before you first mentioned it, we've all got eyes and brains and we know our goal scoring needs improving.
What still hasn't sunk in is you not recognising the need for clean sheets and a very strong defence.
We lost yesterday because the defending side of our game wasn't up to scratch for the first time in ages and we conceded 3 goals.
We need a strong defence AND the ability to score goals. Peterborough have better forwards than us and have scored 7 more goals than us. Where are they in the league?
I honestly don't understand why some are blaming Mannion fo the back-pass mistake. He was already commited to get the ball, but Ramsey then poked it to him. If you watch it back he was halfway down at the point of contact, so no chance of pulling out.
Been saying it since Aneke came back, but he's a spent flush that offers nothing. He has no pace and resorts to grabbing opposition players, giving away cheap free-kicks. Last season, he was a cheat-code. This season, he's just a liability.
The back pass doesnt even matter... We dealt with the resulting free kick
Its the Defence who then fell asleep for the follow up, as given the ball got cleared beyond the box, they had plenty of time to organise themselves.
The ball was in the net within about 12 seconds from when the free kick was taken. How anyone can say the back pass didn't matter is beyond me. If the back pass hadn't have been made and Mannion hadn't picked the ball up, we almost certainly wouldn't have gone one down.
Just thought we went into a bit of a panic mode after they scored and the overcommitment to get an equaliser wasn't really necessary that early on and it lead to the second goal. I would've taken a point and think we would have got an equaliser at some point had we been a bit more measured
Re the celebration after the 2nd. I was in that corner and had no problem with initial knee slide (well executed tbf). But what followed was odd. Odoh hadn't been getting any stick, but clearly wanted to confront the away fans. He was then joined by practically the whole team gesturing and baiting the fans as close as they could get. A bit classless tbh and a couple of people understandably took exception to it. What followed with the over zealous stewards and the chap being dragged out quite aggressively was ridiculous. We saw the fella outside and luckily he'd not been arrested. It was all a bit unnecessary tbh. Obviously Odoh has an issue with the fact he wasn't deemed good enough for Charlton and wanted to vent that, but i reckon n 99% of the stand had no idea who he even was!
On Louis M's show today one of the others, I think Sue, said that some of our fans had been goading him earlier, "Charlton reject" type of stuff, I assume.
Did not here anything towards him, and would suggest most would not even be aware who he was
I honestly don't understand why some are blaming Mannion fo the back-pass mistake. He was already commited to get the ball, but Ramsey then poked it to him. If you watch it back he was halfway down at the point of contact, so no chance of pulling out.
Been saying it since Aneke came back, but he's a spent flush that offers nothing. He has no pace and resorts to grabbing opposition players, giving away cheap free-kicks. Last season, he was a cheat-code. This season, he's just a liability.
The back pass doesnt even matter... We dealt with the resulting free kick
Its the Defence who then fell asleep for the follow up, as given the ball got cleared beyond the box, they had plenty of time to organise themselves.
The ball was in the net within about 12 seconds from when the free kick was taken. How anyone can say the back pass didn't matter is beyond me. If the back pass hadn't have been made and Mannion hadn't picked the ball up, we almost certainly wouldn't have gone one down.
How can you say that for certain?
We kick the ball into Row Z, long throw from Peterborough... Whats to stop a goal coming in that instance...?
Also a lot can happen in 12-seconds, it takes some of the fastest Athletics in the world less time to run 100m. So am sure a ball can be cleared, and put back into the box, with even your average Footballer running less than 12-yards to get back in position in that amount of time.
Re the celebration after the 2nd. I was in that corner and had no problem with initial knee slide (well executed tbf). But what followed was odd. Odoh hadn't been getting any stick, but clearly wanted to confront the away fans. He was then joined by practically the whole team gesturing and baiting the fans as close as they could get. A bit classless tbh and a couple of people understandably took exception to it. What followed with the over zealous stewards and the chap being dragged out quite aggressively was ridiculous. We saw the fella outside and luckily he'd not been arrested. It was all a bit unnecessary tbh. Obviously Odoh has an issue with the fact he wasn't deemed good enough for Charlton and wanted to vent that, but i reckon n 99% of the stand had no idea who he even was!
On Louis M's show today one of the others, I think Sue, said that some of our fans had been goading him earlier, "Charlton reject" type of stuff, I assume.
Did not here anything towards him, and would suggest most would not even be aware who he was
He got a bit of stick after the celebration, but nothing before. He just seemed like a bit of a twat tbh. Wouldn't pass the Dean Holden "no dickheads" test lol
Good luck to him, he's finally off the mark for the season in late March! Surprised we let him go with a record like that ha!
Was at the game and watching the highlights has confirmed my original view that Mannion was on the way down before Ramsay took the extra touch, so kicking it away would have been a physical impossibility. As an aside, the judgement on that perceived error in the player marks really does make me think who who want to be a keeper? If Godden scores 2 in a game, but misses an open goal that definitely costs us a goal, I would bet he would still get plenty of 7s and 8s. Mannion’s overall performance including a great double save, suggest he was not a big underperformer yesterday and has been judged ridiculously harshly.
I honestly don't understand why some are blaming Mannion fo the back-pass mistake. He was already commited to get the ball, but Ramsey then poked it to him. If you watch it back he was halfway down at the point of contact, so no chance of pulling out.
Been saying it since Aneke came back, but he's a spent flush that offers nothing. He has no pace and resorts to grabbing opposition players, giving away cheap free-kicks. Last season, he was a cheat-code. This season, he's just a liability.
The back pass doesnt even matter... We dealt with the resulting free kick
Its the Defence who then fell asleep for the follow up, as given the ball got cleared beyond the box, they had plenty of time to organise themselves.
The ball was in the net within about 12 seconds from when the free kick was taken. How anyone can say the back pass didn't matter is beyond me. If the back pass hadn't have been made and Mannion hadn't picked the ball up, we almost certainly wouldn't have gone one down.
How can you say that for certain?
We kick the ball into Row Z, long throw from Peterborough... Whats to stop a goal coming in that instance...?
I'd say the following created 'chaos', in a manner that a simple throw-in or set piece may not have - surprise from the clunky back pass from our silkiest player on the ball, surprise our goalie decided to pick it up very cleanly, having the entire team attempt to save a goal with any part of their body, achieving this with our fans cheering it like a goal, not composing ourselves to get into a good defensive shape and deal with an immediate attack.
Oh well, as silly as it was, at least Mannion did not chop anybody to get sent off and receive a 3 match ban. Hopefully that's not being saved for Huddersfield at home, in time for the run-in!
I honestly don't understand why some are blaming Mannion fo the back-pass mistake. He was already commited to get the ball, but Ramsey then poked it to him. If you watch it back he was halfway down at the point of contact, so no chance of pulling out.
Been saying it since Aneke came back, but he's a spent flush that offers nothing. He has no pace and resorts to grabbing opposition players, giving away cheap free-kicks. Last season, he was a cheat-code. This season, he's just a liability.
The back pass doesnt even matter... We dealt with the resulting free kick
Its the Defence who then fell asleep for the follow up, as given the ball got cleared beyond the box, they had plenty of time to organise themselves.
The ball was in the net within about 12 seconds from when the free kick was taken. How anyone can say the back pass didn't matter is beyond me. If the back pass hadn't have been made and Mannion hadn't picked the ball up, we almost certainly wouldn't have gone one down.
How can you say that for certain?
We kick the ball into Row Z, long throw from Peterborough... Whats to stop a goal coming in that instance...?
Also a lot can happen in 12-seconds, it takes some of the fastest Athletics in the world less time to run 100m. So am sure a ball can be cleared, and put back into the box, with even your average Footballer running less than 12-yards to get back in position in that amount of time.
I can't which is why I said ALMOST certainly. I'll agree to disagree if you think the back pass, free kick and the ball in the net 12 seconds later was unrelated.
Was at the game and watching the highlights has confirmed my original view that Mannion was on the way down before Ramsay took the extra touch, so kicking it away would have been a physical impossibility. As an aside, the judgement on that perceived error in the player marks really does make me think who who want to be a keeper? If Godden scores 2 in a game, but misses an open goal that definitely costs us a goal, I would bet he would still get plenty of 7s and 8s. Mannion’s overall performance including a great double save, suggest he was not a big underperformer yesterday and has been judged ridiculously harshly.
Agree with this view. Ramsey was definitely indecisive, first controlling the ball then taking the additional touch when row z was probably the better option. But Mannion was well on his way to going to ground so was never going to be able to kick that out. His only option was to pick it up, as stupid as that sounds! A complete balls up, but I guess they happen occasionally.
Just a bit off topic, but while we are talking about the pass back rule, I can remember standing on the terrace at Sellout Park, watching a cup match i think, my memory is sketchy, and the rule had just been introduced, and we skied an attempted clearance from midway between the 18yd area and the halfway line, miscued and it flew back towards our goal and our keeper caught it, and the jobs worth ref gave an indirect free kick, think we conceded from it as well. Anyway a bit of a memory trackback there, anyone else remember it?...🤷♂️
Recall it vividly. As others have said said it was Darren Pitcher's sliced clearance. That game was part of a run where we played Palace four times in a month. Away and then home in the League Cup, home in the Anglo Italian and home in the league. I think we had Millwall twice as well, away in the Anglo Italian (a 2 2 draw) and home in the league. I think the only one out of that batch we won was the home game with Palace in the Anglo Italian. Plus ça change.
Anyway, as you were.
Well, clearly nothing wrong your memory mate it seems, thanks...🤷♂️
This is Mannion’s position exactly as Ramsay plays the pass. He’s not on his way down at all, he’s just started to run out and has plenty of space to change his mind and kick it
He also makes a jerky movement as if he’s going to stand up before changing his mind. He’s had a howler there. He also made some great saves and stopped it being 4/5, goalkeeper errors are always more impactful than any other position though.
Ramsay is now taking the 2nd touch. Mannion isn’t quite on his way down and I still feel he should have stayed on his feet and cleared with his feet. I prefer Mannion to AMB so am not scapegoating, simply discussing the game.
From where I was sat it was immediately apparent Mannion had misjudged what was happening and was going to ground for no real reason. Whether he slipped or was unbalanced I'm not sure, but he was never gonna be able to clear that with his foot due the way he set off from his goal.
I honestly don't understand why some are blaming Mannion fo the back-pass mistake. He was already commited to get the ball, but Ramsey then poked it to him. If you watch it back he was halfway down at the point of contact, so no chance of pulling out.
Been saying it since Aneke came back, but he's a spent flush that offers nothing. He has no pace and resorts to grabbing opposition players, giving away cheap free-kicks. Last season, he was a cheat-code. This season, he's just a liability.
The back pass doesnt even matter... We dealt with the resulting free kick
Its the Defence who then fell asleep for the follow up, as given the ball got cleared beyond the box, they had plenty of time to organise themselves.
The ball was in the net within about 12 seconds from when the free kick was taken. How anyone can say the back pass didn't matter is beyond me. If the back pass hadn't have been made and Mannion hadn't picked the ball up, we almost certainly wouldn't have gone one down.
How can you say that for certain?
We kick the ball into Row Z, long throw from Peterborough... Whats to stop a goal coming in that instance...?
Also a lot can happen in 12-seconds, it takes some of the fastest Athletics in the world less time to run 100m. So am sure a ball can be cleared, and put back into the box, with even your average Footballer running less than 12-yards to get back in position in that amount of time.
Ramsay is now taking the 2nd touch. Mannion isn’t quite on his way down and I still feel he should have stayed on his feet and cleared with his feet. I prefer Mannion to AMB so am not scapegoating, simply discussing the game.
I think your still shot is accurate, but disagree that he isn’t on the way down. In my opinion he had shifted his balance by this point. I’m with you on not scapegoating about the goal. I wouldn’t want to blame Ramsay either - shit happens!
Take Peterborough on recent form not league position. Know how they play, how they develop, sell, rebuild and come again and what transpired wasn’t at all that surprising.
They attack at speed, have a great flow, rotate and combine constantly. We mark man for man and those rotations just dragged our players all over the place.
Ricky Jade Jones’ off the ball work was great, he ran Lloyd out of position all game and Coventry ended up the last man on numerous occasions. the amount of space Ricky created was ridiculous and having Mothersille, Poku and Odoh to exploit it…lucky it wasn’t more. Saying that, we had our own chances and should have created even more than we did given our promising final third entry’s. There is a lack of quality in execution and too many moments come to nothing. Small & TC have both improved over the season but the numbers speak for themselves, 5 goals & 2 assists between them. RJJ has more than that by himself with 8 goals and 5 assists. Mothersille has 11 goals and 7 assists and Poku has 10 goals & 7 assists. Odoh scored his 1st league goal of the season yesterday but has one less assist than Godden, Berry, Small & TC combined.
An open entertaining match and the team with the better forward four created better chances and won the game. On to the next.
Crazy game. Yesterday was the first time we've lost by three or more under Nathan Jones. Hope it will be a long, long time before the next. Even at that, we had enough chances to score four.
Peterborough are a very unpredictable side. Yesterday we saw them at their most dangerous.
We need to be back on song for Huddersfield on Saturday, and I'm sure we will be.
Take Peterborough on recent form not league position. Know how they play, how they develop, sell, rebuild and come again and what transpired wasn’t at all that surprising.
They attack at speed, have a great flow, rotate and combine constantly. We mark man for man and those rotations just dragged our players all over the place.
Ricky Jade Jones’ off the ball work was great, he ran Lloyd out of position all game and Coventry ended up the last man on numerous occasions. the amount of space Ricky created was ridiculous and having Mothersille, Poku and Odoh to exploit it…lucky it wasn’t more. Saying that, we had our own chances and should have created even more than we did given our promising final third entry’s. There is a lack of quality in execution and too many moments come to nothing. Small & TC have both improved over the season but the numbers speak for themselves, 5 goals & 2 assists between them. RJJ has more than that by himself with 8 goals and 5 assists. Mothersille has 11 goals and 7 assists and Poku has 10 goals & 7 assists. Odoh scored his 1st league goal of the season yesterday but has one less assist than Godden, Berry, Small & TC combined.
An open entertaining match and the team with the better forward four created better chances and won the game. On to the next.
Ramsay needs to just put it into the river, he’s not under massive pressure there either
I presume he would have if he had thought for one second that Mannion would choose to handball a backpass. I think our fans were shocked that he did and should imagine he was too. I was in row 3 and couldn't believe it.
I didn’t quite understand why the away section on the side stand looked so empty when we had sold almost all the seats…
I was sat in the front row to the right of the goal and there were several empty seats to my right and left. I assume they went to the back. I moved and sat half way up just before they scored their second. I also went for a pee half way through and they were a ton of people on the concourse.....Why ?
Re the first goal i was quite close to the action and i would blame both Ramsey and Mannion for that. Both had time to clear, what Mannion was doing just falling on it when he knew the rules is beyond me.
The problem we have is that we are not clinical enough in front of goal. That has been the pattern in the last few games. We’ve been lucky though as the other teams have had the same problem. But today Posh were clinical going forward and took their goals well. Maybe it would have been different if Mannion hadn’t had that rush of blood to the head but, once we went behind, we just didn’t have it in us to get back into the game. Even though we had lots of chances I don’t remember their goalie being really tested. For me that could be a problem.
I posted this last week (and then backed up by @PragueAddick) and got pelters.
Perhaps it now might start sinking in.
Once again Golfie, it was pointed out to you that since January 1st Charlton, after yesterdays games have scored 22 goals, Wrexham 16 and Wycombe 15. I would like to ask you who you would like us to score more than and how many should we get ? Rob's post about being clinical does not bear scrutiny, yesterday we created chances but none were clear cut, Peterborough were stretched but last ditch attempts our missed placed shots and goalkeeping saves meant we didn't score. Can't say I'm surprised by your post though, any failure of the team is jumped on by yourself as vindication that you 'were right all along', it's my opinion that you actually want this team to fail to prove that point. The weather is getting better Golfie, get out on the course, get down the Valley, get some interaction with other human beings, because left to your own devices you sound bitter and twisted.
"We had shots that ended up in Stevenage" Nathan Jones.
So what can Jones do about it? Kanu? Aneke? Ahadme? Good luck with that.
So that means better, more clinical finishing from Campbell, Docherty, Berry, and Coventry. Maybe Gilbert. Good luck with that too, at this stage of the season.
Now, if you want some "perspective", fine, this is the 3rd Division, and as Brownie said, unless you spend millions this is the kind of weakness even a decent squad ends up with. The frustrating thing is that we spent a lot of money on Ahadme. He might not have been bought primarily for his finishing, but if he at least looked like a reliable 15 goal per season striker, we'd be in a much better place this morning. If we reach the play-offs I will still regard it as over-achievement compared with reasonable expectations, but if we falter at this stage it will IMO be largely down to the decisions we made pre-season about the striker/goals-scoring element of the squad. As I said at the time of May's departure (and borrowing a maxim from the broader world of recruitment) "Any idiot can sell a good player, especially a striker, replacing him with someone better is the difficult bit".
Sorry Prague, who did we bring in to replace Alfie May? Matt Godden, has he been a failure ? I would suggest not, considering his partner has been Tyreece Campbell, who certainly is not prolific, he has given a healthy return. I think it's disingenuous to lament the sale of May, and in the same post mention three strikers who have not been starters for weeks now and leave Godden out of that list. Once again, look at the facts, look at how well the team has been doing, we got done yesterday for the first time since Rotherham, we have a better goals return since the turn of the year than our main rivals. I know fans have their concerns, but go to all the teams apart from Birmingham and they have the same concerns.
I know some people won't ......No ! most people won't agree with me, it was good to see Ahadme back, he actually had one of our four shots on target, we are going to need him fit and finding some form.
You're related?
If as reported Leaburn is out for the season and Kanu out for a month, we need my Uncle Gas to hit form, not before time to be fair.
if Leaburn is out for the season then that could be a bigger dent to our promotion hopes than yesterdays defeat
I give up on the logic that Mannion wasn't at fault, because he was already on his way down to handle the first back pass. Therefore apparently it's not his fault that he handled the 2nd back pass?
Sorry to come across as argumentative but I just don't get it.
The goalie knows he can't handle a back pass, so why was he going down to handle a back pass? Whether it was the first or second back pass is immaterial.
In terms of goals, we miss CBT more than May, as he gave us a big goal threat from the left wing. While in the previous season, Rak-Sakyi gave us goal threat from the right wing.
This season we have talented players in wide positions, but they're not the sort who will regularly cut inside to score, so we're reliant on the central strikers and set pieces more.
Comments
What still hasn't sunk in is you not recognising the need for clean sheets and a very strong defence.
We lost yesterday because the defending side of our game wasn't up to scratch for the first time in ages and we conceded 3 goals.
We need a strong defence AND the ability to score goals.
Peterborough have better forwards than us and have scored 7 more goals than us.
Where are they in the league?
How anyone can say the back pass didn't matter is beyond me.
If the back pass hadn't have been made and Mannion hadn't picked the ball up, we almost certainly wouldn't have gone one down.
I would've taken a point and think we would have got an equaliser at some point had we been a bit more measured
We kick the ball into Row Z, long throw from Peterborough... Whats to stop a goal coming in that instance...?
Also a lot can happen in 12-seconds, it takes some of the fastest Athletics in the world less time to run 100m. So am sure a ball can be cleared, and put back into the box, with even your average Footballer running less than 12-yards to get back in position in that amount of time.
Good luck to him, he's finally off the mark for the season in late March! Surprised we let him go with a record like that ha!
Oh well, as silly as it was, at least Mannion did not chop anybody to get sent off and receive a 3 match ban. Hopefully that's not being saved for Huddersfield at home, in time for the run-in!
I'll agree to disagree if you think the back pass, free kick and the ball in the net 12 seconds later was unrelated.
Superb composure from Leaburn too.
We were well beaten that night.
This is Mannion’s position exactly as Ramsay plays the pass. He’s not on his way down at all, he’s just started to run out and has plenty of space to change his mind and kick it
Mannion isn’t quite on his way down and I still feel he should have stayed on his feet and cleared with his feet.
I prefer Mannion to AMB so am not scapegoating, simply discussing the game.
...😉
the amount of space Ricky created was ridiculous and having Mothersille, Poku and Odoh to exploit it…lucky it wasn’t more.
Saying that, we had our own chances and should have created even more than we did given our promising final third entry’s. There is a lack of quality in execution and too many moments come to nothing. Small & TC have both improved over the season but the numbers speak for themselves, 5 goals & 2 assists between them. RJJ has more than that by himself with 8 goals and 5 assists. Mothersille has 11 goals and 7 assists and Poku has 10 goals & 7 assists. Odoh scored his 1st league goal of the season yesterday but has one less assist than Godden, Berry, Small & TC combined.
Peterborough are a very unpredictable side. Yesterday we saw them at their most dangerous.
We need to be back on song for Huddersfield on Saturday, and I'm sure we will be.
I think our fans were shocked that he did and should imagine he was too.
I was in row 3 and couldn't believe it.
Re the first goal i was quite close to the action and i would blame both Ramsey and Mannion for that. Both had time to clear, what Mannion was doing just falling on it when he knew the rules is beyond me.
Therefore apparently it's not his fault that he handled the 2nd back pass?
Sorry to come across as argumentative but I just don't get it.
The goalie knows he can't handle a back pass, so why was he going down to handle a back pass? Whether it was the first or second back pass is immaterial.
This season we have talented players in wide positions, but they're not the sort who will regularly cut inside to score, so we're reliant on the central strikers and set pieces more.