I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of how things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either were not or did not know how to cope with it.paulsturgess said:
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/60 -
I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.FreshHaddock said:
How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.paulsturgess said:
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6
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Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true.bobmunro said:
I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.FreshHaddock said:
How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.paulsturgess said:
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/61 -
@bobmunro - however @paulsturgess mentioned Dykes. I can vividly remember him standing in the opposition box last winter yelling orders at his own team mates at the very first opportunity that he had. I don't have such clear memories of Cody doing anything similar, but he certainly gained a reputation for leadership amongst some of our fans and was (if I recall correctly) lauded by Jones for his leadership qualities and experience. I will concede that finding someone that Jones trusts in that role and who is prepared to take on the huge challenge that is keeping us going, is a big ask, but I believe that if we are patient and Jones is given enough time and there aren't too many adverse extraneous factors, that it is possible. Supporting the Addicks is a bit of a rollercoaster ride, and after yesterday its not easy to think positively but if I allow myself to dream - we have a better squad than we did last October and if we have as good or better a January transfer window next January, I think we will be in a good place even if we don't have players capable of lobbing the Palace keeper from the half way line.1
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Stu_of_Kunming said:
Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true.bobmunro said:
I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.FreshHaddock said:
How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.paulsturgess said:
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6
@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.0 -
Personally im not sure where we are ability wise as a squad. A slight improvement on last season, 15th to 19th maybe.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Where’s option C? Play better football, get drilled every week and go down?Chris_from_Sidcup said:
If for example the choices were to:MeerKat said:
Just for arguments sake, if we sacked Jones and hired an absolute magician, who got the very most out of this squad of players, how high do you think they could finish? What do we think is the general consensus on this squads ability?Sword65pf said:
People liking this, is the general consensus that we have got a load of incapable shit players?, surely we’ve seen most of them play well at some point to look at the bigger picture, tactics for one, confidence, our play just seems so stifled.LittleAddick said:NJ getting sacked doesn't solve anything, we haven't got the players to play 'good football' at this level
a) plod along with Jones like we are playing dire football and nicking the odd result here and finish 19th.
b) play some decent football with a new manager, go into games with intent to win rather than not to lose and finish 16th.
Most people would prefer option B.
I don't think anyone would suddenly expect us to gatecrash the play offs just because we had a new manager, we know that our squad isn't good enough for that. But i would think that most people are just sick of the terrible football we play week in week out.
That said, whenever we've had a sticky patch before Jones has turned it around, so i hope yesterday was a big wake up call and we actually see some changes in tactics and personnel next week and things improve.
The fear if we changed Jones would be option C. That would be a disaster, but so would playing shit football all season and still going down.
Is the defensive approach taken by Jones because that's what he deems necessary for this squad to survive or all hes capable of?
The football has been dire to watch but we need to be very careful if option B is the top of our limit.
I'm on the fence currently about Jones. I think we need to be careful.
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Coady was constantly directing and pointing and was directly praised for doing so by players like Gough and (if memory serves) Coventry. We don't have a single vocal leader on the pitch this season and it showsbobmunro said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true.bobmunro said:
I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.FreshHaddock said:
How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.paulsturgess said:
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6
@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.5 -
fenaddick said:
Coady was constantly directing and pointing and was directly praised for doing so by players like Gough and (if memory serves) Coventry. We don't have a single vocal leader on the pitch this season and it showsbobmunro said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true.bobmunro said:
I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.FreshHaddock said:
How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.paulsturgess said:
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6
@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.
Probably semantics at play here (that's me, not you or others)- I see what you are describing as organising and I agree that we don't have vocal leaders able or willing to do that. No player on the pitch for Jones would be allowed to affect the style of play and that's what I picked up on as directing.1 -
We didn't replace Coady or Fevrier for that matter. The majority of fans laughed at the suggestion of them two coming back but I've seen nothing from Skipp, Alli or Nkeng (laughable) that suggests we've upgraded on themfenaddick said:
Coady was constantly directing and pointing and was directly praised for doing so by players like Gough and (if memory serves) Coventry. We don't have a single vocal leader on the pitch this season and it showsbobmunro said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true.bobmunro said:
I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.FreshHaddock said:
How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.paulsturgess said:
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6
@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.2 -
Our front five of Coventry, Skipp, Cambell, Grant and Leaburn have scored 16 goals between them in the last two seasons (57 matches) in the Championship from 234 appearances.
If you pick a side that doesn't have a natural goalscorer and set the team up not to concede, then you will end up with a situation where you haven't scored three goals in a league game for a year. Which is where we are.6 -
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hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Eight games without a win and his football is pretty terrible to watch. Does anyone enjoy watching us play at present?ProperCharlton said:I know recent performances haven't been good enough and results have been shocking but he has done such a good job as manager since joining that I am nowhere near wanting him replaced.
He kept us up, got us promoted, kept us up again and we're outside the relegation places currently, all whilst having a relatively small budget. What else is he supposed to do?
Keep the faith.
Hopefully results will pick up but confidence is low at present...My first game of the season, I usually listen to the commentary so haven't actually seen us play. I loved getting back to the build up to the game, meeting up with friends etc and the fans did them proud but it was bloody terrible to watch. Standing there willing the ball to actually cross the half way line. Most of us are stuck supporting Charlton. I'd still support them whatever, family have supported them for generations. But playing not to lose is dire and we will end up with just the die hard fans suffering this awful bollox.Jones absolutely has to go.5 -
We've got 4 more games before the next international break, 3 are at The Valley. We need to win at least 2 games between now and then or he needs to foxtrot oscar in my opinion. There's the rub though because any incoming manager would want assurances about January window spending. If he did leave and they replaced him from within the club it would show there's no interest in the owners investing. Very worrying times, I hope he can turn it around but currently I'm not so confident.1
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Had all summer to sign at least one leader. Instead we released one.fenaddick said:
Coady was constantly directing and pointing and was directly praised for doing so by players like Gough and (if memory serves) Coventry. We don't have a single vocal leader on the pitch this season and it showsbobmunro said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true.bobmunro said:
I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.FreshHaddock said:
How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.paulsturgess said:
I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6
@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.3 -
We won’t sadlyAddicksi said:We've got 4 more games before the next international break, 3 are at The Valley. We need to win at least 2 games between now and then or he needs to foxtrot oscar in my opinion. There's the rub though because any incoming manager would want assurances about January window spending. If he did leave and they replaced him from within the club it would show there's no interest in the owners investing. Very worrying times, I hope he can turn it around but currently I'm not so confident.2 -
This is where a lot of the problem lies, I think they are wanting out and are being very careful with their spend.Addicksi said:We've got 4 more games before the next international break, 3 are at The Valley. We need to win at least 2 games between now and then or he needs to foxtrot oscar in my opinion. There's the rub though because any incoming manager would want assurances about January window spending. If he did leave and they replaced him from within the club it would show there's no interest in the owners investing. Very worrying times, I hope he can turn it around but currently I'm not so confident.
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They may want to sell but can you imagine being a prospective investor and coming to watch this load of old big dog’s cock? You’d play with your money elsewhere.ElfsborgAddick said:
This is where a lot of the problem lies, I think they are wanting out and are being very careful with their spend.Addicksi said:We've got 4 more games before the next international break, 3 are at The Valley. We need to win at least 2 games between now and then or he needs to foxtrot oscar in my opinion. There's the rub though because any incoming manager would want assurances about January window spending. If he did leave and they replaced him from within the club it would show there's no interest in the owners investing. Very worrying times, I hope he can turn it around but currently I'm not so confident.1 -
Because it demonstrates that the distinct probability is that any replacement for Jones will be a bloody sight worse.The Red Robin said:
I don’t get why this always the automatic response to anyone who questions Nathan Jones.Dazzler21 said:I don't really get why after the last 20 years people think we can attract better.
Who have we had that has been a genuinely good manager since Curbishley left? Powell? Bowyer?0 -
Just so we're clear, the suggestion is to sack Nathan Jones, who took over when we were 63rd in the league pyramid (19th in League 1), three points off the relegation zone to L2, while we're 41st (17th in the Championship), three points off the playoffs to the Premier League.
Questions: are we so flush with cash, we can afford to spunk compensation money up the wall? Can we identify a manager who would definitely deliver an immediate improvement in results? What effect would sacking Jones have on the players he signed or, crucially, fought to have new contracts? And, finally, which available manager would view Charlton's situation and decide that this is the perfect set of circumstances in which to develop their career?
In my view, sacking Jones would be a disaster; would reduce the current owners to the status of the previous two ownerships; and would set the club's rehabilitation back at least half a decade.11 -
Oh well, at least whilst we’re this shit in the league maybe we can have a go in the FA cup when it comes around0
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Picked a bad time to stop being his agentEveryDayAddick said:A good friend of mine (who used to be Jude Bellingham's agent before his move to Real Madrid) is best mates with an ageing goalkeeper we tried to sign at the start of our League One promotion season (not Begovic). I asked him at the time why said goalkeeper didn't sign, his answer was that the guy had a phone call with NJ, and came away thinking he was a bit of an "idiot".At the time (with my rose tinted glasses on), I wondered if the player was just looking for a paycheck, and wasn't willing to roll up his sleeves, so took it as a positive. I'm starting to think the player might have been right. This whole anti-football/try to nick a win culture probably has a ceiling, and I would suggest that ceiling is League One. Maybe it's the club that has to evolve, not the manager.2 -
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Tell your neighbour they are doing a great job, Cristiano's make up is always top notch, but a change of career would mean he/she doesn't have to live next to the riff raff.closet_addick said:
My neighbour (who works as Cristiano Ronaldo's make up artist) agrees with your mate.EveryDayAddick said:A good friend of mine (who used to be Jude Bellingham's agent before his move to Real Madrid) is best mates with an ageing goalkeeper we tried to sign at the start of our League One promotion season (not Begovic). I asked him at the time why said goalkeeper didn't sign, his answer was that the guy had a phone call with NJ, and came away thinking he was a bit of an "idiot".At the time (with my rose tinted glasses on), I wondered if the player was just looking for a paycheck, and wasn't willing to roll up his sleeves, so took it as a positive. I'm starting to think the player might have been right. This whole anti-football/try to nick a win culture probably has a ceiling, and I would suggest that ceiling is League One. Maybe it's the club that has to evolve, not the manager.0 -
It wasn't his choice. Gave up his job at Adidas as Head of Player recruitment, because he struck up a good relationship with the family (was also Jobe's agent). Then, when the potential of real money came flowing was sidelined by the dad who got the poundsigns in his eyes. Got his original contract fully paid up, so did Ok out of it, but would have got more from the Real Madrid move.PeaksAndValleys said:
Picked a bad time to stop being his agentEveryDayAddick said:A good friend of mine (who used to be Jude Bellingham's agent before his move to Real Madrid) is best mates with an ageing goalkeeper we tried to sign at the start of our League One promotion season (not Begovic). I asked him at the time why said goalkeeper didn't sign, his answer was that the guy had a phone call with NJ, and came away thinking he was a bit of an "idiot".At the time (with my rose tinted glasses on), I wondered if the player was just looking for a paycheck, and wasn't willing to roll up his sleeves, so took it as a positive. I'm starting to think the player might have been right. This whole anti-football/try to nick a win culture probably has a ceiling, and I would suggest that ceiling is League One. Maybe it's the club that has to evolve, not the manager.0 -
PeaksAndValleys said:
Picked a bad time to stop being his agentEveryDayAddick said:A good friend of mine (who used to be Jude Bellingham's agent before his move to Real Madrid) is best mates with an ageing goalkeeper we tried to sign at the start of our League One promotion season (not Begovic). I asked him at the time why said goalkeeper didn't sign, his answer was that the guy had a phone call with NJ, and came away thinking he was a bit of an "idiot".At the time (with my rose tinted glasses on), I wondered if the player was just looking for a paycheck, and wasn't willing to roll up his sleeves, so took it as a positive. I'm starting to think the player might have been right. This whole anti-football/try to nick a win culture probably has a ceiling, and I would suggest that ceiling is League One. Maybe it's the club that has to evolve, not the manager.
Mark Bellingham is the FIFA licenced agent for Jude and his Brother Jobe and has been ever since they were at Birmingham as just like Harry Kane who's Brother is his agent they wanted to keep it in the family.
Mark was an ex police officer and Jude's mum also covered a lot of the financial affairs for her boys.
Someone is telling porkies 🤔
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Yesterday was the furthest towards the Jones out mindset I've gone but with a day to calm down I'm back to Jones please make some changes because this is awful.
Promotion and start of last season we had essentially three ways of scoring goals: set pieces, high turnovers from an aggressive press, and picking up the second ball after hoofing it. Since this time last year we've stopped two of those, which I'd put down to fatigue but has carried on into this season.
We still score some set pieces, although even there I'd say less convincingly (less tactics and dominance, more chaos and luck).
Jones talks about the press, mainly when he's unhappy with it. I basically never see it. TC's goal at West Ham ok, but it's just not a feature of our game anymore. Used to be so noticeable all the time, now I can't even tell if we're meant to. Two players half press a back line of four, all it does is take them out the game when they get played through.
We win no second balls, even more stark when Miles is playing so well as a target man (if not a finisher). Two deep lying CDMs plus a CAM in Grant that would rather push on or drift wide leaves a massive gap in the middle, which is punishing defensively but also means no second balls, no driving runs, basically none of what Carey brought last season with his play and goals.
I watch us and I genuinely don't know how we are trying to score. Pretty sure getting it to TC is one, but we can't even do that regularly. God forbid he has an off game like yesterday, then we really are cooked.
Jones often sets up too defensive, is too loyal to certain players, often too slow with his subs and can be very dislikeable as a person.
With all that said, the reasons for sticking with Jones are pretty clear in my opinion (obviously feel free to disagree with any of these, although I'd suggest they are mostly just facts):
1. We've been here before, multiple times. A bad run under Jones plus his inherant drawbacks lead to calls for his head, he stays and turns it around.
2. We spent £1.5m in the summer on a squad that was relegation budget the season before. Expectation should be in and around relegation. So a lot of the blame has to go there. Plus Jones has a clear track record of overperforming budget.
3. Not aware of and not heard any sensible suggestions for someone who could do that job with this squad better than Jones.
4. Yesterday was horrendous and the form is extremely poor. But as it stands we are outperforming overall. That will change if results don't, but the league position is currently healthy.
5. It's not as simple as just changing manager. Ownership have taken a long term view, he and his philosophy are embedded right through the club. There are all sorts of costs in swapping him out, particularly if that is to get someone with a very different ethos eg free flowing football.
6. Speaking of costs and a long term view, he recently signed a five year contract. The money required to pay him off is substantial, when there already isn't enough being put into the squad.1 -
If Jones leaves, we go down. If he stays, we have a chance of staying up.The owners have not invested in this squad to make us any better than scraping survival. I’m not sure how people can expect more than that.1
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You're right, I just made it all up in my head, the bit about a guy leaving his well paid job, I got from Chat GPT to add some drama, that's me rumbled.soapboxsam said:PeaksAndValleys said:
Picked a bad time to stop being his agentEveryDayAddick said:A good friend of mine (who used to be Jude Bellingham's agent before his move to Real Madrid) is best mates with an ageing goalkeeper we tried to sign at the start of our League One promotion season (not Begovic). I asked him at the time why said goalkeeper didn't sign, his answer was that the guy had a phone call with NJ, and came away thinking he was a bit of an "idiot".At the time (with my rose tinted glasses on), I wondered if the player was just looking for a paycheck, and wasn't willing to roll up his sleeves, so took it as a positive. I'm starting to think the player might have been right. This whole anti-football/try to nick a win culture probably has a ceiling, and I would suggest that ceiling is League One. Maybe it's the club that has to evolve, not the manager.
Mark Bellingham is the FIFA licenced agent for Jude and his Brother Jobe and has been ever since they were at Birmingham as just like Harry Kane who's Brother is his agent they wanted to keep it in the family.
Mark was an ex police officer and Jude's mum also covered a lot of the financial affairs for her boys.
Someone is telling porkies 🤔0
