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Matchday Ticket prices 26/27
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I think there’s a ceiling to the number of fans we can attract as a struggling Championship team, regardless of how cheap we make the tickets. It’s obviously a higher ceiling than League One, but even if we capped prices at £25 anywhere in the ground, I still think we’d be looking at around 19k–23k at most.
If we were challenging at the top of the table, it would obviously be different. Even then, though, I think we’d need to be winning the league and having an all-timer of a season to sell out every week. And even in that scenario, there would probably still be plenty of tickets available for some midweek games.
The bigger issue is attracting the casual/local market. We’re in an area with a huge population, but also a very high proportion of people who aren’t originally from London. For a lot of them, anything outside the Premier League’s top six barely registers, and if they’re football fans, they’ve probably already picked an EPL club to armchair support.
Just look at the number of Arsenal, Man Utd and Spurs shirts you see wandering around Woolwich on any given day. There’s a massive potential audience around us, but converting those people into regular Charlton supporters is a different matter entirely.
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It’s not entertainment that gets people into the stadium it’s success.charltonnick said:
Yes it is the entertainment industry , but is it entertaining ? I understand that we are fighting just to stay in the division , but if you want entertainment , it's pretty poor value.AFKABartram said:
Playing devils advocate a bit here, but these are price points from about 15 years ago. And probably in L1.Braziliance said:.Lower North= £22
Upper North, West and East non centre views = £25
Centre views= £28
Then add a little premium for bigger games maybe.
What they are pricing now is poor and doesn't reflect our status as a club.
15 years ago average concert or west end theatre price was £25-£50. Now it’s in the £120-£180 range. You won’t get a ticket for anything top list like Taylor Swift, Beyoncé etc for less than £200 now.Everything in the entertainment industry has gone through the roof price wise. Similar to hospitality. Similar to travel.
Even as a football comparison, just to get in at a basic Tier 7 ground (level below Conf North / South) will basic open standing and basic facilities is base £15 now (£16 Dartford) to see amateur players.So on a wider picture, I don’t think the prices are hugely out of sync or why those people setting them (who will never understand our fanbase) think they are out of proportion.But…it all boils down to basic supply / demand economics. We have excess seats, a non-diehard fanbase that won’t consistently pay top prices, and the tourist visitor market is well down this season in comparison to the last couple.What is playing out is exactly what we said would happen when the prices was announced in the summer.Using us as an example, 2017/18 we got to saw the like of Bielik Aribo Cullen Taylor Grant absolutely rip teams apart in L1 playing some really good football averaged 11.8K that season.18/19 we watched park the bus football in the championship watching a bunch of kids for the most part which is understandable given the the circumstances and averaged 18k.If people value entertainment over success we may as well just never want to get promoted to the prem. where would be the entertainment losing 3-0, 4-0 at home every week.Prices are going to be set at maximising profits doing the maths if we were to drop prices by £5 we would need roughly 500 more people to balance that out, it just comes down to how many people actually would come to the games at lower prices that wouldn’t pay at higher prices3 -
Does anyone know the specifics of a student discount? Im technically now a student again as im doing a course as part of my job and signed up for a totum card yesterday.
Do you need to be in full time eduction? Seems bizarre that I could now potentially be eligible for a ST for £300, which 48 hours ago would have cost me £560.
Will obviously take advantage of the offer though if possible.
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Good post. But I would suggest it's not just people in the local area who weren't born in London the club is struggling to attract, it's young people generally (unless family "influence" is brought to bear on them!)CAFCTrev said:I think there’s a ceiling to the number of fans we can attract as a struggling Championship team, regardless of how cheap we make the tickets. It’s obviously a higher ceiling than League One, but even if we capped prices at £25 anywhere in the ground, I still think we’d be looking at around 19k–23k at most.
If we were challenging at the top of the table, it would obviously be different. Even then, though, I think we’d need to be winning the league and having an all-timer of a season to sell out every week. And even in that scenario, there would probably still be plenty of tickets available for some midweek games.
The bigger issue is attracting the casual/local market. We’re in an area with a huge population, but also a very high proportion of people who aren’t originally from London. For a lot of them, anything outside the Premier League’s top six barely registers, and if they’re football fans, they’ve probably already picked an EPL club to armchair support.
Just look at the number of Arsenal, Man Utd and Spurs shirts you see wandering around Woolwich on any given day. There’s a massive potential audience around us, but converting those people into regular Charlton supporters is a different matter entirely.
I work a number of shifts with young people (say 18 - 24). Frankly, they probably don't have much in common with an old git like me, except one thing. Football.
If I ask them who they support, it's inevitably Arsenal (miles in front of anyone else at the moment), Chelsea, Tottenham or West Ham. Sadly, still quite a few Man Utd and Liverpool fans (and usually they've never actually ever been to Manchester or Liverpool!). Even had some kid from East London the other day tell me he was a Man City fan!
When they say who do you support and I say Charlton, you can see the glazed look on their face and as they think who! The next question is almost always what League are you in now?
Sorry but that's the reality these days. Which just makes it more important than ever for the Club to try and capture the next generation of fans before they attach themselves to clubs which frankly give the kids more self esteem at school.
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Full time education for the entire season.shine166 said:Does anyone know the specifics of a student discount? Im technically now a student again as im doing a course as part of my job and signed up for a totum card yesterday.
Do you need to be in full time eduction? Seems bizarre that I could now potentially be eligible for a ST for £300, which 48 hours ago would have cost me £560.
Will obviously take advantage of the offer though if possible.2 -
The website hasn't been updated for this season as of yet.0 -
That thing about capturing the next generation is surely best done through the existing generation, word of mouth and conditioning, friends and family. That entails 2 for 1 offers, discounts and definitely not losing an existing fan base. Also using the database effectively to tempt punters in with periodoc offers.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Good post. But I would suggest it's not just people in the local area who weren't born in London the club is struggling to attract, it's young people generally (unless family "influence" is brought to bear on them!)CAFCTrev said:I think there’s a ceiling to the number of fans we can attract as a struggling Championship team, regardless of how cheap we make the tickets. It’s obviously a higher ceiling than League One, but even if we capped prices at £25 anywhere in the ground, I still think we’d be looking at around 19k–23k at most.
If we were challenging at the top of the table, it would obviously be different. Even then, though, I think we’d need to be winning the league and having an all-timer of a season to sell out every week. And even in that scenario, there would probably still be plenty of tickets available for some midweek games.
The bigger issue is attracting the casual/local market. We’re in an area with a huge population, but also a very high proportion of people who aren’t originally from London. For a lot of them, anything outside the Premier League’s top six barely registers, and if they’re football fans, they’ve probably already picked an EPL club to armchair support.
Just look at the number of Arsenal, Man Utd and Spurs shirts you see wandering around Woolwich on any given day. There’s a massive potential audience around us, but converting those people into regular Charlton supporters is a different matter entirely.
I work a number of shifts with young people (say 18 - 24). Frankly, they probably don't have much in common with an old git like me, except one thing. Football.
If I ask them who they support, it's inevitably Arsenal (miles in front of anyone else at the moment), Chelsea, Tottenham or West Ham. Sadly, still quite a few Man Utd and Liverpool fans (and usually they've never actually ever been to Manchester or Liverpool!). Even had some kid from East London the other day tell me he was a Man City fan!
When they say who do you support and I say Charlton, you can see the glazed look on their face and as they think who! The next question is almost always what League are you in now?
Sorry but that's the reality these days. Which just makes it more important than ever for the Club to try and capture the next generation of fans before they attach themselves to clubs which frankly give the kids more self esteem at school.
Given that no-one inside the club seems to be managing pricing among all the other things operational across matchday, there's an increasing risk of losing existing fans and all that potential to get bums on seats and to build the fan base.3 -
I know we all complain about the club a lot (myself included) but the 2 kids and 2 adults deals are great value and should definitely be promoted more.2
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It sounds like a good deal for those two adults that have two kids between them and want to go to a game. Not much use of there isn’t two adults and two kids together I guess.shine166 said:I know we all complain about the club a lot (myself included) but the 2 kids and 2 adults deals are great value and should definitely be promoted more.
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Like a family ? Or 2 adults that have a child ? Or 2 parents, the child and a friend ?.letthegoodtimesroll said:
It sounds like a good deal for those two adults that have two kids between them and want to go to a game. Not much use of there isn’t two adults and two kids together I guess.shine166 said:I know we all complain about the club a lot (myself included) but the 2 kids and 2 adults deals are great value and should definitely be promoted more.
OAP discount isnt much use to me, but its still a good deal.1 -
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I am confident the increased prices are LOSING the club income.
A very rough calculation (so let's not argue too much as it's not precise).
IF last season we were getting let's say 6,000 paying home supporters at £20 net (roughly including concessions, VAT etc etc.
This is £120K.
But IF this season we are getting let's say 3,000 paying home supporters at £30 net, this is £90K.
A £30K LOSS x 23 games = £690K loss over the season.7 -
I’m assuming you can buy for two adults and two kids then discard the kids tickets if you haven’t actually got any? I’m not encouraging this but can see why people would do it at some of the ridiculous prices we are charging. Plus we have plenty of spare seats so it’s hardly costing the Club income wigh the kids tickets not being used.letthegoodtimesroll said:
It sounds like a good deal for those two adults that have two kids between them and want to go to a game. Not much use of there isn’t two adults and two kids together I guess.shine166 said:I know we all complain about the club a lot (myself included) but the 2 kids and 2 adults deals are great value and should definitely be promoted more.2 -
the novelty of Charlton in the Championship has become the norm, the excitement of Wembley and promotion disappears from the Wembley glory fans and there's only a gazillion more better things to do than get bored senseless by Charlton .
This is how the non hardcore fans will see it , we're all trapped and watch no matter what .
The hardcore is minimal5 -
Same story for essentially every club around the country.oohaahmortimer said:the novelty of Charlton in the Championship has become the norm, the excitement of Wembley and promotion disappears from the Wembley glory fans and there's only a gazillion more better things to do than get bored senseless by Charlton .
This is how the non hardcore fans will see it , we're all trapped and watch no matter what .
The hardcore is minimal0 -
They do indeed offer good value.shine166 said:I know we all complain about the club a lot (myself included) but the 2 kids and 2 adults deals are great value and should definitely be promoted more.However they are poorly advertised / obvious when booking and likewise we don’t have any offers aimed at adults who might bring a mate.So little imagination is the problem.Just because you can make diehards pay more doesn’t mean you should. Once they are gone they might not come back / be replaced.5 -
Charlton season ticket sales last season 12.5k + 2.5k away (average CHATGPT) = 15kCovered End said:I am confident the increased prices are LOSING the club income.
A very rough calculation (so let's not argue too much as it's not precise).
IF last season we were getting let's say 6,000 paying home supporters at £20 net (roughly including concessions, VAT etc etc.
This is £120K.
But IF this season we are getting let's say 3,000 paying home supporters at £30 net, this is £90K.
A £30K LOSS x 23 games = £690K loss over the season.
20,066 (average attendance)- 15k= 5,066 matchday sales
5,066 x £20 (average ticket cost adult + kids) = £101,320 revenue.This season assuming season ticket sales and away attendances remain the same.
18,875 - 15k= 3875
3,875 x £30 = £116,250 revenue.Obviously there are so many factors at play here such as how many season tickets we sold this season the actual away attendances the actual spend on matchday tickets (adults/kids pricing) etc etc.
However there is absolutely no guarantee that the higher pricing is actually costing the club revenue.Thing is the club get no benefit making less money whilst also having less supporters and they actually have all the figures in front of them. If they’re charging more it’s because they believe that’s the best way to maximise their revenue. The only way they make it cheaper is if people are guaranteed to come at lower prices which they wouldn’t go to at current prices which is also not ensured1 -
Yeah I presumed it was a 1 time offer for Preston tbh, had no idea it was available for the whole season.valleynick66 said:
They do indeed offer good value.shine166 said:I know we all complain about the club a lot (myself included) but the 2 kids and 2 adults deals are great value and should definitely be promoted more.However they are poorly advertised / obvious when booking and likewise we don’t have any offers aimed at adults who might bring a mate.So little imagination is the problem.Just because you can make diehards pay more doesn’t mean you should. Once they are gone they might not come back / be replaced.0 -
It’s not about the revenue, it’s all about how many fans we can get into the ground.Crispywood said:
Charlton season ticket sales last season 12.5k + 2.5k away (average CHATGPT) = 15kCovered End said:I am confident the increased prices are LOSING the club income.
A very rough calculation (so let's not argue too much as it's not precise).
IF last season we were getting let's say 6,000 paying home supporters at £20 net (roughly including concessions, VAT etc etc.
This is £120K.
But IF this season we are getting let's say 3,000 paying home supporters at £30 net, this is £90K.
A £30K LOSS x 23 games = £690K loss over the season.
20,066 (average attendance)- 15k= 5,066 matchday sales
5,066 x £20 (average ticket cost adult + kids) = £101,320 revenue.This season assuming season ticket sales and away attendances remain the same.
18,875 - 15k= 3875
3,875 x £30 = £116,250 revenue.Obviously there are so many factors at play here such as how many season tickets we sold this season the actual away attendances the actual spend on matchday tickets (adults/kids pricing) etc etc.
However there is absolutely no guarantee that the higher pricing is actually costing the club revenue.Thing is the club get no benefit making less money whilst also having less supporters and they actually have all the figures in front of them. If they’re charging more it’s because they believe that’s the best way to maximise their revenue. The only way they make it cheaper is if people are guaranteed to come at lower prices which they wouldn’t go to at current prices which is also not ensured
The owners are on the hook for millions, even if they probably haven’t had to hand over everything so far.
the goals have to be a) the PL; and b) if we can’t go up, to not fuck it up and get relegated from the Championship
they've backed Nathan commendably this window. that says to me that if we are where we are come the January window then it’s likely they will tell Nathan to go for it.Having a decent team, however, is just one part of achieving success on the pitch and filling the ground to get behind the team just might make the difference. Emptying it may well have the opposite effect.If we don’t go up they are going to have to plug the gap to cover losses. Roland could do it repeatedly because he had the stadium and SL and could just revalue their worth to balance his balance sheet to support the ‘investment’ he gets a rent from. The current owners don’t have that luxury. Nicking £20k-£30k extra on tickets for some games in a depressingly half empty stadium isn’t going to really help pay those losses. Nicking £20k-£30k is probably only paying the wage of a couple of players,.
we’re in a good position atm and we’ve not lost at home. Keep that run going and it makes it harder for teams to come to the valley and compete against both the team and the home crowd. Lose a home game or two and those high prices will have an even bigger impact upon attendances and motivating the team from that point could trigger a step too far to recover from in this league.0 -
Kids for a quid vs norwich.3
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Great. 😡Cafc451 said:Kids for a quid vs norwich.1 -
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Are you actually annoyed about this?Bedsaddick said:
Great. 😡Cafc451 said:Kids for a quid vs norwich.0 -
Such a shame when the club tries to bring in new fans eh?Bedsaddick said:
Great. 😡Cafc451 said:Kids for a quid vs norwich.4 -
I don't have loads to add which hasn't been said already, however a friend of mine (Boro fan) was planning on coming for the QPR game but buckled last minute when he saw the £38 price. Can't blame him, it's silly prices.5
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Crispywood said:
Charlton season ticket sales last season 12.5k + 2.5k away (average CHATGPT) = 15kCovered End said:I am confident the increased prices are LOSING the club income.
A very rough calculation (so let's not argue too much as it's not precise).
IF last season we were getting let's say 6,000 paying home supporters at £20 net (roughly including concessions, VAT etc etc.
This is £120K.
But IF this season we are getting let's say 3,000 paying home supporters at £30 net, this is £90K.
A £30K LOSS x 23 games = £690K loss over the season.
20,066 (average attendance)- 15k= 5,066 matchday sales
5,066 x £20 (average ticket cost adult + kids) = £101,320 revenue.This season assuming season ticket sales and away attendances remain the same.
18,875 - 15k= 3875
3,875 x £30 = £116,250 revenue.Obviously there are so many factors at play here such as how many season tickets we sold this season the actual away attendances the actual spend on matchday tickets (adults/kids pricing) etc etc.
However there is absolutely no guarantee that the higher pricing is actually costing the club revenue.Thing is the club get no benefit making less money whilst also having less supporters and they actually have all the figures in front of them. If they’re charging more it’s because they believe that’s the best way to maximise their revenue. The only way they make it cheaper is if people are guaranteed to come at lower prices which they wouldn’t go to at current prices which is also not ensured
The point is that this is exactly the switching values analysis the club should be doing to find out that tipping point. They could do it with real cost and revenue data (including all matchday revenue from the clubs share of food and drink sales , club shop etc.) to know at what point revenue will peak. They can also make a decent stab at the price elasticity of tickets from the last few seasons data to feed into this.
They very easily could use real data to get this close to exactly right. Its basic bread and butter stuff. I'd do it for free if they actually wanted it. But you just know that they havent done it. Its clear prices are a complete guess and all about extraction in the short term.5 -
The "population churn" rate in London has increased markedly over the last 30 years or so. For the area immediately surrounding The Valley (and London in general) it is about 20% a year i.e. every year that passes 1 in 5 people move out to be replaced by someone else. Additionally, the population living within approx. 3 miles of The Valley has increased by about 100,000 in the last 20 years.swords_alive saidThat thing about capturing the next generation is surely best done through the existing generation, word of mouth and conditioning, friends and family. That entails 2 for 1 offers, discounts and definitely not losing an existing fan base. Also using the database effectively to tempt punters in with periodoc offers.
Given that no-one inside the club seems to be managing pricing among all the other things operational across matchday, there's an increasing risk of losing existing fans and all that potential to get bums on seats and to build the fan base.
If CAFC is going to attract some of that potential audience it has got to be a lot more imaginative in its ticketing strategy. That sort of audience will not likely buy season tickets but they might buy a more limited "Jackson 5" type ticket which offers a serious discount on buying game by game.
Additionally, most of that potential audience are likely to already have an affiliation for a team outside of London. Why not position ourselves as the team it is OK to support whilst away from home?
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It’s a start but I’d cite the U18 price at £17.Kids on such a promotion needs to be 16 and under not a cut off at 12. It is after all a 12.30 kick off when TV is a valid choice for many.As I say a start but unnecessarily limited.Also couple with the adult prices (ex the family bundle) and it’s still a stupidly expensive match given the TV option.Needless to say the price penalty increase for 1 hour before kick off remains and is a further disincentive for a spur of the moment change of heart to go.It’s also somewhat buried in the news item - should be a headline.So the odds on it being widely taken up are limited.1
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Clueless , seriously the crowds will not grow if they carry on like this , did they not see the poor turnouts Qpr london derby and pompey on a saturday 3pm kick off stil ended up a poor turnout in the home ends2
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Great to see people doing the numbers but there is no way the average net revenue from a ticket has gone up by £10 this season*. Probably more like £3 taking into account concessions and VAT. We also need to factor in 500 comps, possibly more.Crispywood said:
Charlton season ticket sales last season 12.5k + 2.5k away (average CHATGPT) = 15kCovered End said:I am confident the increased prices are LOSING the club income.
A very rough calculation (so let's not argue too much as it's not precise).
IF last season we were getting let's say 6,000 paying home supporters at £20 net (roughly including concessions, VAT etc etc.
This is £120K.
But IF this season we are getting let's say 3,000 paying home supporters at £30 net, this is £90K.
A £30K LOSS x 23 games = £690K loss over the season.
20,066 (average attendance)- 15k= 5,066 matchday sales
5,066 x £20 (average ticket cost adult + kids) = £101,320 revenue.This season assuming season ticket sales and away attendances remain the same.
18,875 - 15k= 3875
3,875 x £30 = £116,250 revenue.Obviously there are so many factors at play here such as how many season tickets we sold this season the actual away attendances the actual spend on matchday tickets (adults/kids pricing) etc etc.
However there is absolutely no guarantee that the higher pricing is actually costing the club revenue.Thing is the club get no benefit making less money whilst also having less supporters and they actually have all the figures in front of them. If they’re charging more it’s because they believe that’s the best way to maximise their revenue. The only way they make it cheaper is if people are guaranteed to come at lower prices which they wouldn’t go to at current prices which is also not ensuredPlease forget about ancillary income. It’s a red herring because of cost of sale and the large number of people who buy nothing. I used to count it at £1 a head. Maybe £2 now.
i would also add that we have now had two consecutive seasons where the Portsmouth match has been a Gold game and on both occasions the home attendance on a Saturday has been rubbish.
Clearly the logic of Gold games is to milk away fans, which at current prices requires a £35 ticket in the lower Covered End. That accounts for the bulk of the extra revenue raised. Unless the rules have changed in ways I can’t imagine, there is no reason to raise the other prices in the home areas at all and I don’t believe it is generating any money doing so.*A £10 increase would equate to every match ticket rising by £12 year on year, which clearly isn’t true.3 -
Who are you ?AberystwythAddick said:
Are you actually annoyed about this?Bedsaddick said:
Great. 😡Cafc451 said:Kids for a quid vs norwich.1 -
That’s the problem the board are 100% looking it from a revenue point. Trying to take the emotion out of it and look strictly from a business point if they want to compete at this level they have to start growing revenues to spend more and I don’t agree but this is what they think is a good way to do that, whether that’s more season ticket purchases by improving its value or just more gate receipt income.letthegoodtimesroll said:
It’s not about the revenue, it’s all about how many fans we can get into the ground.Crispywood said:
Charlton season ticket sales last season 12.5k + 2.5k away (average CHATGPT) = 15kCovered End said:I am confident the increased prices are LOSING the club income.
A very rough calculation (so let's not argue too much as it's not precise).
IF last season we were getting let's say 6,000 paying home supporters at £20 net (roughly including concessions, VAT etc etc.
This is £120K.
But IF this season we are getting let's say 3,000 paying home supporters at £30 net, this is £90K.
A £30K LOSS x 23 games = £690K loss over the season.
20,066 (average attendance)- 15k= 5,066 matchday sales
5,066 x £20 (average ticket cost adult + kids) = £101,320 revenue.This season assuming season ticket sales and away attendances remain the same.
18,875 - 15k= 3875
3,875 x £30 = £116,250 revenue.Obviously there are so many factors at play here such as how many season tickets we sold this season the actual away attendances the actual spend on matchday tickets (adults/kids pricing) etc etc.
However there is absolutely no guarantee that the higher pricing is actually costing the club revenue.Thing is the club get no benefit making less money whilst also having less supporters and they actually have all the figures in front of them. If they’re charging more it’s because they believe that’s the best way to maximise their revenue. The only way they make it cheaper is if people are guaranteed to come at lower prices which they wouldn’t go to at current prices which is also not ensured
The owners are on the hook for millions, even if they probably haven’t had to hand over everything so far.
the goals have to be a) the PL; and b) if we can’t go up, to not fuck it up and get relegated from the Championship
they've backed Nathan commendably this window. that says to me that if we are where we are come the January window then it’s likely they will tell Nathan to go for it.Having a decent team, however, is just one part of achieving success on the pitch and filling the ground to get behind the team just might make the difference. Emptying it may well have the opposite effect.If we don’t go up they are going to have to plug the gap to cover losses. Roland could do it repeatedly because he had the stadium and SL and could just revalue their worth to balance his balance sheet to support the ‘investment’ he gets a rent from. The current owners don’t have that luxury. Nicking £20k-£30k extra on tickets for some games in a depressingly half empty stadium isn’t going to really help pay those losses. Nicking £20k-£30k is probably only paying the wage of a couple of players,.
we’re in a good position atm and we’ve not lost at home. Keep that run going and it makes it harder for teams to come to the valley and compete against both the team and the home crowd. Lose a home game or two and those high prices will have an even bigger impact upon attendances and motivating the team from that point could trigger a step too far to recover from in this league.There has been roughly a 1,200 decrease in attendance this season which is 6%. Not only is that not a huge amount but I’m willing to bet the main people who generate the atmosphere and make the valley a difficult place to come is more likely to be the season ticket holders than those coming down for a few games (for the most part). Again not saying I agree £35 for a Charlton home game is absolutely outrageous and nothing against people not willing to spend that much for one game but football is all about money.
If there was enough people willing to come at £25 but not £35 to make up the revenue difference they would 100% do that because they get both the financial and attendance benefit but I’m guessing that’s not the case.The owners need to decide whether to maximise revenue or make match day visitors happier and rightly or wrongly they’re doing the former4
