As I just said, when your being charged the 3RD MOST EXPENSIVE SEASON TICKETS IN EUROPE, you have a right to demand what you want as far as im concerned.
.
You've got a point but it doesn't change the fact they are a tin pot Prem League club like the other 12/13 who've consistently won sod all of note in their history , especially west ham who've never won the top title, yet harp on that they deserve this manager that manger etc etc.
All fans deserve the right to demand certain standards I agree with that you pay your money etc but you got to be realistic.
The ticket price thing is irrelevent. By and large, clubs charge the maximum they feel they can that people will still pay. If people didn't pay it, they would reduce the prices.
West Ham prices are what they are because they currently have enough supporters that will near fill their stadium that are prepared to pay it.
Anyhow, i think they are the 4th most expensive club in London, behind Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea.
I listened to the interview with Joorabchian and he's clearly been sent to do a hatchet job on Curbs. There has been criticism of his signings of Boa Morte, and Quashie, (repeated by Joorabchian) plus the signing of "injury prone" players. It's extremely easy to be wise after the event but you have to look at the timings of the purchase of some of the players. He took over with West Ham right down the bottom looking like they were going to be relegated. There was all kinds of squit going on behind the scenes and he needed to shake the tree, and get a few bodies across the threashold before the end of January. He signed Upson and he then got injured so they went for Davenport and Neil. Boa Morte and Quashie, ain't brilliant but they were available. It would have been very difficult to entice decent players there given their league position.
Since then he has signed players who had a history of injury but presumably these players passed stringent fitness tests before signing so was it Curbs fault?
As for the spiralling wages costs, well as far as I know Curbs didn't negotiate the wages for the players so that can hardly lay at his door.
Clearly what has happened is that he was head hunted by the Egg man. The Egg man supported Curbs by financing the purchase of players he wanted. Costs spiralled at the same time as the Bankers from whom most of the cash was taken have had to tighten the purse strings due to the credit crunch which was created due to the failings of Bankers. So the Egg man is replaced, and they have gradually cut Curbs legs from under him, first by appointing a Director of Football above him, then cutting his budget and finally selling players behind his back and against his wishes. He was forced out, no doubt about it.
Exiled Addick, by the way, I thought your post was spot on, and just shows that the more often a lie is spoken, the more it becomes believed. His record was of playing exciting football when he could. When he couldn't due to circumstances like injuries or players who lost their form, he had the nous to grind out results to keep the ship afloat. Yes he made mistakes - his failure to ensure that there was a steady stream of youngsters coming through good enough to challenge for places being one of the biggest, but despite his faults, he was simply the best manager this club has had in the modern era.
The only time the Curbs era got 'boring' was the last year and a half, but it was also at the time when we were finding it increasingly difficult to compete financially with the newly promoted sides because they were getting large cash injections based on a smaller budget.
With that in mind, he did what he had to do to get us by. it wasn't enjoyable, but worked as it got enough results to get by. Like yesterday, he also knew exactly the right time to get out.
But a year and half out of 13 years was not a bad return, its just a shame it seems to be all the media and West Ham fans seem to know.
well said AFKA on the last year and a halfs situation
I have never really understood the contempt given towards Curbs by some at the ground or on here i never started going to Charlton because they were hugely entertaining in the first place, I thought sometimes we were great sometimes poor, sometimes we ground out a result sometimes we played blinding and got feck all,
but that accounts for all teams surely with the exceptence of a few Man Yoo and Arsenal
short memeories some was the Sunderland game not the greatest of all.
the problem being if we were to go up now we would need to spend huge and play shit football just to survive regardless of who is the boss so for me i am just looking back on those days with huge satisfaction and pride.
Curbs did the best job anyone could have in that era and so what if the squad he left was shit sell them then and buy new ones to go with your new manager funny how alot of those shit ones currently play in the prem though isnt it
Having spoken to three different West Ham fans who I know, two are pleased he has gone due to 'The entertainment level', the third one is gutted he has gone & thinks the Board are a disgrace.
"There's a list of 20 or so hugely entertaining games I remember from the Curbs era and there are more"
Could not agree more, BUT NONE of them were from the last couple of years when he lost interest and went stale, I think that was some people's point.
I also agree about supporting Charlton to grind out a result etc BUT when you do get a few decent calibre players in, I think you should play to their strengths. Curbs (as he had lost interest) didn't, and therefore they became disillusioned very quickly/ fell out/ left. And some of us spent a lot of money going to the likes of Highbury, Chelsea (the £44 game!), Manure etc etc hoping for one of those earlier Curbs Charlton performances. (As well as lesser teams obviously - trying to 'curb' the snide remarks!.. but games against the big boys we just ended up lying down for, whereas before we would have at least given our all).
That's my take on it anyway.
I often wonder if he would have left if we had not equalised against palarse on the last day of the season. (Let's face it, we were dire (as we had been most of that season) - Apart from the first goal, amazing skills from Kish and Hughesey!) There would have been one hell of a lot of angry fans. I thing Jonny Fortune inadvertantly may hqave prolonged his stay in a way!
What evidence is there that he lost interest? I'd accept he went stale, but he wanted to stay an extra year, it was murray that effectively sacked him, even though it was in the nicest possible way. If Curbs had had the money that Dowie was given five months after Curbs departure then maybe the exciting football would have been back, there would have been more likely hood of us having stayed up.
People forget that Curbs was not the instigator of the break and that he had been perfectly willing to work and develop the squad that others inherited for another year.
Keily , Ewell and others said Curbs was going threw the motions in his last year. He fell out with Ewell, Keily, Yong and darren Bent. Some of the stuff towards the nd of his time at The valley he said to players in public wasnt on. Big Bent had to stop baby Bent from walking out the dressing room once. Big Bent siad it front of the whole squad " dont do it Darren there are times and places for it" ----------------------- darrens Bents old man told us !
Curbs should have gone the year after Parker left. Would have been better for him and MUCH MORE IMPORTANT CAFC
"Curbs' is a strange one for me. I really really hate the fact that to people outside of Charlton he walked away smelling of roses after leaving us with the squad he did. Everyone just see's...Curb's leaves = Charlton relegated. I didn't see it that way."
that sums up why I can't see him as a Charlton legend...
[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]"Curbs' is a strange one for me. I really really hate the fact that to people outside of Charlton he walked away smelling of roses after leaving us with the squad he did. Everyone just see's...Curb's leaves = Charlton relegated. I didn't see it that way."
that sums up why I can't see him as a Charlton legend...
that's incredibly harsh KA.
If Man U have a poor season this year and Fergie goes, and next year they plummet, people wouldn't say the same about him.
[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]"Curbs' is a strange one for me. I really really hate the fact that to people outside of Charlton he walked away smelling of roses after leaving us with the squad he did. Everyone just see's...Curb's leaves = Charlton relegated. I didn't see it that way."
that sums up why I can't see him as a Charlton legend...
To a lot of people inside of Charlton Curbs quite rightly walked away smelling of roses too.
Bearing in mind we live in the real world rather than la la land what more could he have done than he did?
He didn't walk Murray asked him to go when he said I'll see out my contract but i'm not signing a new one.
curbs's last season we got to the quarter finals of the fa cup the season started off with a bang 4 premiership wins on the spin including 3-1 and 3-0 away victories at sunderland and boro and had a 2-0 victory against liverpool to boot and creditable draws at liverpool and chelsea... murphy throws a strop and smertin gets the hump we peter out the season and finish in relative comfort on 47 points FACTS
omg it might not have been the greatest spectacle but we aint brazil1970 ffs give me one more of those boring curbs seasons in my lifetime ffs
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Keily , Ewell and others said Curbs was going threw the motions in his last year. He fell out with Ewell, Keily, Yong and darren Bent. Some of the stuff towards the nd of his time at The valley he said to players in public wasnt on. Big Bent had to stop baby Bent from walking out the dressing room once. Big Bent siad it front of the whole squad " dont do it Darren there are times and places for it"
darrens Bents old man told us !
Football manager falls out with players is not shock news, falling out with Kiely and Euel less shocking seeing as he dropped them both and sold Kiely - living legends don't like that. But Curbs man management skills were never seen as his best bit (Thats what he had Peacock there for), but for everyone that said he pee'd them off there was another extolling his virtues.
That said few of us did not feel that he had gone stale, but I doubt that there are many that would believe he did not care, especially the board who know him better than any of us and would have sacked him sooner if they had felt that way.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]curbs's last season we got to the quarter finals of the fa cup the season started off with a bang 4 premiership wins on the spin including 3-1 and 3-0 away victories at sunderland and boro and had a 2-0 victory against liverpool to boot and creditable draws at liverpool and chelsea... murphy throws a strop and smertin gets the hump we peter out the season and finish in relative comfort on 47 points FACTS
omg it might not have been the greatest spectacle but we aint brazil1970 ffs give me one more of those boring curbs seasons in my lifetime ffs
was that the same season we had the highest scoring englishman in the prem?
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]omg it might not have been the greatest spectacle but we aint brazil1970 ffs give me one more of those boring curbs seasons in my lifetime ffs
Eaxctly oohaah
Problem is that people expected us to kick on and challenge for Europe and blamed Curbs for not doing so.
That would have been great, there's no doubt, but facts are we just weren't / aren't big enough to be able to do that without having put the club at financial risk.
Could you imagine the state of the club if we had got into Europe, bought a load of "name" players in an attempt to be able to compete on domestic and European fronts, and then got relegated? The proof is there for all to see because that's exactly what happened to a similar sized club in Ipswich. The only way would could have safely pushed on is to expand the ground (target 40k).
Hopefully we will one day be in a position to have this "nice" problem, but even if we do get promoted (and stay up) any time soon, don't expect anything more than a style of football that provides a solid & reliable foundation. This will then allow the club to build up steadily to be in a position were the ground needs expanding, and then allow us to dream of challenging for Europe, cups etc.
Boring / negative / mid table mediocre / damage limitation football is an unfortunate evil necessity for all but the top 4, plus the likes of Villa, Spurs etc. It just costs too much to get relegated (as we've found out) to risk any other approach.
spot on mate the only problem being that finishing in a top 6 place or getting to the fa cup final will end up costing teams roughly 200mill to build a team able to achieve that, unless you have 14/15 young players coming through at the same time and creating an unstoppable team more chance of Abu Dabai or the DIC mob buying us out and helping.
we will never ever taste European footie unless we get a massive billionare take over so we should just get used to it
i aint saying plucky little charlton either the buying out of man city,Liverpool,Manyoo,and Chelski's billionare have effectivly stopped the prem being competitive,
Spuds hqave spent and spent and are way bigger than us and will never break into that top 4 or even 5 position
you have
Man City Chelski Man Yoo Liverpool Arsenal
all hugely poweful money teams now in that order imo we will never be able to compete with that and if the league finshed taht way for the next 4-5 seasons what would be the point
Comments
Don't think it would get passed by the other directors.
One of them is always going on about not personalising the history of the club. Silly I know but you can't imagine what it's like in that boardroom.
Now West Ham have theres
Curbishley 'made transfer errors'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/7597097.stm
Sounds like Joorabchian doing their dirty work for them.
Rather than speculating on Curbs transfer perhaps Mr Joorabchian could tell us exactly what happened with Tevez and who owned and owns his contract.
You've got a point but it doesn't change the fact they are a tin pot Prem League club like the other 12/13 who've consistently won sod all of note in their history , especially west ham who've never won the top title, yet harp on that they deserve this manager that manger etc etc.
All fans deserve the right to demand certain standards I agree with that you pay your money etc but you got to be realistic.
West Ham prices are what they are because they currently have enough supporters that will near fill their stadium that are prepared to pay it.
Anyhow, i think they are the 4th most expensive club in London, behind Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea.
Since then he has signed players who had a history of injury but presumably these players passed stringent fitness tests before signing so was it Curbs fault?
As for the spiralling wages costs, well as far as I know Curbs didn't negotiate the wages for the players so that can hardly lay at his door.
Clearly what has happened is that he was head hunted by the Egg man. The Egg man supported Curbs by financing the purchase of players he wanted. Costs spiralled at the same time as the Bankers from whom most of the cash was taken have had to tighten the purse strings due to the credit crunch which was created due to the failings of Bankers. So the Egg man is replaced, and they have gradually cut Curbs legs from under him, first by appointing a Director of Football above him, then cutting his budget and finally selling players behind his back and against his wishes. He was forced out, no doubt about it.
Exiled Addick, by the way, I thought your post was spot on, and just shows that the more often a lie is spoken, the more it becomes believed. His record was of playing exciting football when he could. When he couldn't due to circumstances like injuries or players who lost their form, he had the nous to grind out results to keep the ship afloat. Yes he made mistakes - his failure to ensure that there was a steady stream of youngsters coming through good enough to challenge for places being one of the biggest, but despite his faults, he was simply the best manager this club has had in the modern era.
With that in mind, he did what he had to do to get us by. it wasn't enjoyable, but worked as it got enough results to get by. Like yesterday, he also knew exactly the right time to get out.
But a year and half out of 13 years was not a bad return, its just a shame it seems to be all the media and West Ham fans seem to know.
I have never really understood the contempt given towards Curbs by some at the ground or on here i never started going to Charlton because they were hugely entertaining in the first place, I thought sometimes we were great sometimes poor, sometimes we ground out a result sometimes we played blinding and got feck all,
but that accounts for all teams surely with the exceptence of a few Man Yoo and Arsenal
short memeories some was the Sunderland game not the greatest of all.
the problem being if we were to go up now we would need to spend huge and play shit football just to survive regardless of who is the boss so for me i am just looking back on those days with huge satisfaction and pride.
Curbs did the best job anyone could have in that era and so what if the squad he left was shit sell them then and buy new ones to go with your new manager funny how alot of those shit ones currently play in the prem though isnt it
Could not agree more, BUT NONE of them were from the last couple of years when he lost interest and went stale, I think that was some people's point.
I also agree about supporting Charlton to grind out a result etc BUT when you do get a few decent calibre players in, I think you should play to their strengths. Curbs (as he had lost interest) didn't, and therefore they became disillusioned very quickly/ fell out/ left. And some of us spent a lot of money going to the likes of Highbury, Chelsea (the £44 game!), Manure etc etc hoping for one of those earlier Curbs Charlton performances. (As well as lesser teams obviously - trying to 'curb' the snide remarks!.. but games against the big boys we just ended up lying down for, whereas before we would have at least given our all).
That's my take on it anyway.
I often wonder if he would have left if we had not equalised against palarse on the last day of the season. (Let's face it, we were dire (as we had been most of that season) - Apart from the first goal, amazing skills from Kish and Hughesey!) There would have been one hell of a lot of angry fans. I thing Jonny Fortune inadvertantly may hqave prolonged his stay in a way!
Sorry I'm rambling...
People forget that Curbs was not the instigator of the break and that he had been perfectly willing to work and develop the squad that others inherited for another year.
Curbs should have gone the year after Parker left. Would have been better for him and MUCH MORE IMPORTANT CAFC
that sums up why I can't see him as a Charlton legend...
that's incredibly harsh KA.
If Man U have a poor season this year and Fergie goes, and next year they plummet, people wouldn't say the same about him.
SPOT ON.
To a lot of people inside of Charlton Curbs quite rightly walked away smelling of roses too.
Bearing in mind we live in the real world rather than la la land what more could he have done than he did?
He didn't walk Murray asked him to go when he said I'll see out my contract but i'm not signing a new one.
omg it might not have been the greatest spectacle but we aint brazil1970 ffs give me one more of those boring curbs seasons in my lifetime ffs
Football manager falls out with players is not shock news, falling out with Kiely and Euel less shocking seeing as he dropped them both and sold Kiely - living legends don't like that. But Curbs man management skills were never seen as his best bit (Thats what he had Peacock there for), but for everyone that said he pee'd them off there was another extolling his virtues.
That said few of us did not feel that he had gone stale, but I doubt that there are many that would believe he did not care, especially the board who know him better than any of us and would have sacked him sooner if they had felt that way.
was that the same season we had the highest scoring englishman in the prem?
I blame Muzza and Dowie Muzza for Dowies appointment and Dowie because he proved he was cack.
some blame Curbs, Dowie and the board
If we hadnt of got relegated that next season and if we were still in the prem now would Curbs still be seen in such a way?
i dont think he would
Eaxctly oohaah
Problem is that people expected us to kick on and challenge for Europe and blamed Curbs for not doing so.
That would have been great, there's no doubt, but facts are we just weren't / aren't big enough to be able to do that without having put the club at financial risk.
Could you imagine the state of the club if we had got into Europe, bought a load of "name" players in an attempt to be able to compete on domestic and European fronts, and then got relegated? The proof is there for all to see because that's exactly what happened to a similar sized club in Ipswich. The only way would could have safely pushed on is to expand the ground (target 40k).
Hopefully we will one day be in a position to have this "nice" problem, but even if we do get promoted (and stay up) any time soon, don't expect anything more than a style of football that provides a solid & reliable foundation. This will then allow the club to build up steadily to be in a position were the ground needs expanding, and then allow us to dream of challenging for Europe, cups etc.
Boring / negative / mid table mediocre / damage limitation football is an unfortunate evil necessity for all but the top 4, plus the likes of Villa, Spurs etc. It just costs too much to get relegated (as we've found out) to risk any other approach.
spot on mate the only problem being that finishing in a top 6 place or getting to the fa cup final will end up costing teams roughly 200mill to build a team able to achieve that, unless you have 14/15 young players coming through at the same time and creating an unstoppable team more chance of Abu Dabai or the DIC mob buying us out and helping.
we will never ever taste European footie unless we get a massive billionare take over so we should just get used to it
i aint saying plucky little charlton either the buying out of man city,Liverpool,Manyoo,and Chelski's billionare have effectivly stopped the prem being competitive,
Spuds hqave spent and spent and are way bigger than us and will never break into that top 4 or even 5 position
you have
Man City
Chelski
Man Yoo
Liverpool
Arsenal
all hugely poweful money teams now in that order imo we will never be able to compete with that and if the league finshed taht way for the next 4-5 seasons what would be the point