[cite]Posted By: boggzy[/cite]"There's a list of 20 or so hugely entertaining games I remember from the Curbs era and there are more"
Could not agree more, BUT NONE of them were from the last couple of years when he lost interest and went stale, I think that was some people's point.
I also agree about supporting Charlton to grind out a result etc BUT when you do get a few decent calibre players in, I think you should play to their strengths. Curbs (as he had lost interest) didn't, and therefore they became disillusioned very quickly/ fell out/ left. And some of us spent a lot of money going to the likes of Highbury, Chelsea (the £44 game!), Manure etc etc hoping for one of those earlier Curbs Charlton performances. (As well as lesser teams obviously - trying to 'curb' the snide remarks!.. but games against the big boys we just ended up lying down for, whereas before we would have at least given our all).
That's my take on it anyway.
I often wonder if he would have left if we had not equalised against palarse on the last day of the season. (Let's face it, we were dire (as we had been most of that season) - Apart from the first goal, amazing skills from Kish and Hughesey!) There would have been one hell of a lot of angry fans. I thing Jonny Fortune inadvertantly may hqave prolonged his stay in a way!
Sorry I'm rambling...
I acknowledge that in my post Boggzy and give the reasons it came about. I think he did play to peoples strengths too when he could. Take the 4-5-1 we played with Thomas Smertin Murphy Kish and Rommedahl. Up until then we'd always played 4-4-2 but that system brought the best out of Murphy and in turn the best out of Benty. When it stopped working for whatever reason he switched it round to make us soild and grind out some results. People whine on about dull football, and I agree it was painful to watch at times, but the fact is immediately before that we were getting turned over very easily and giving away 2-0 leads and the like. I firmly believe Curbs intended to work his way back to a more expansive style once the ship had been steadied but then for whatever reason he lost Murphy and Smertin and he had that option taken away from him. So again he did what he had to do.
The point about Ferguson is a valid one. Kinsella turned into a crab towards the end of his time with us, Mendonca was always injured, as was Rufus, Deano dropped a few clangers in his last season. No-one ever questions their status as legends because it went a little pete tong at the end, why do it with Curbs?
The way he has been treated by our board is nothing short of a disgrace. Can't blame the bloke for walking, any decent self respecting manager would have done the same if they had no say in the buying/selling of playing staff.
As for all the comment about the fans wanting him out, whilst it is true some were not impressed with his negative tactics (me being one of them), a poll on kumb after the transfer window closed showed nearly 90% of fans backed him. http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=123561
As for all the unrealistic demands by fans etc comments, I don't think west ham fans are unrealistic in the slightest. We know we will never win the league, or even come close to qualifying for the champions league for that matter. The gulf between clubs like us and the top 4 is far to big. The only way to even get a look in is by having a proper billionaire take over and invest heavily (not a skint one like our new owner). All we want is to see our team playing good exciting football. Not watching negative rubbish football, bringing on spector for the last 15 minutes when we are 1-0 up to shore it up. We want to see us approach games like we did in the cup final a few years back. Fans harp on about "the west ham way" and "the acadamy" etc. I don't think such a thing exists. But we do have a history of playing football the way it should (IMO) be played. If we don't get that (as we didn't pretty much the entire season last season) we won't sit back and simply let our traditions die.
Last comment, the reasoning behind all these player sales behind curbs back? Apparently our board are sh*ting themselves that they have lost the arbitration with sheff u, and want a substantial bulk of money ready incase we have to pay them compensation.
I think its going to be far more common practice in football in general nowadays - especially in the PL, and even more so with clubs with mental foreign owners.
The problem is Mortain playing that way gets you relegated if you havent got the squad like man yoo or the gooners to play attacking exciting football.
you can play like that in the chumpionship and still not get the result, footie is entertainment i agree but it is also about results and sometimes you need to play negative to reach the main goal of prem footie.
i think not just yourselves but there are other fans in the prem and some on here included that want entertaining football and the results and for small teams it aint going to happen.
reality is really the prem will kill football and is on the way to happening already as what is the point in being in a competion that you can never win i dont just mean the prem i mean the fa cup as well, we can all say pompey got there but taht wont happen again for years
I'm struggling to uinderstand some of the arguments re Curbs.
Okay I accept that he probably stayed too long at the Valley and sure he became a little jaded and to be fair (probably) exhausted in the last couple of seasons.
However given that could anyone else have acheived what he acheived at CAFC? Personally I don't think so. He was the right man in the right place at the right time with the right team and support around him.
We will probably never know the true reasons for the fall outs with players, lets face it the first instalment of his memoirs gave absolutely nothing away although to be fair the prose style was never going to win any awards and in that alone was I think a true reflection of the man.
As someone said above away from football and TV he was a warm and friendly individual ( I was lucky enough to meet him on several occaisions) though nobody could have ever called him erudite. None the less he was always as honest as he could be when someone shoved a mike under his nose after a poor result.
That honesty is perhaps his greatest failing as someone in the spotlight. He is a man of principle and has proved it again. Can any one of us honestly say that we would have walked away from the sort of money he was on for principle? Certainly I wouldn't have. It would have been very easy for him to throw in the towel and just wait to be sacked by the Spammers with a nice big pay off but he didn't.
Perhaps we should compare that attitude with some others currently in the spotlight. Who would you trust with your money and football team? Curbs or a petulant little man from Scunthorpe who has managed to walk away from every job he's ever had as soon as the going got tough and he failed to get his own way?
Kevin Keegan is not the Messiah, never was, not as a player or manager, he's just a spoiled little brat (apologies to Graham Chapman RIP) nor is Curbs however I am pleased that it was Curbishley who was at the helm for 15 years at the club I love rather than KK.
Will he return? I doubt it and in all honesty would we want him again? The world moves on and life continues, all changing, that's what makes it such an enjoyable ride. Remember the good times, they may never come again, or they just might and if they do they will be as good as the old times - just diffrerent.
Putting aside the fantastic job he did for us, I always thought that publicly, he never really portrayed himself as someone who had a great affection for the club. The fact that he doesn't appear to have much of a personality didn't help either.
Just been out to see a client who is a CPFC ST Holder. First thing he asked is "will Charlton take Curbs back?"
Richard Murray once said that Curbs may not be the best manager in the league but he was the best manager for Charlton. West Ham aren't Charlton which was part of his problem but then again maybe we are not the same club as when RAM said that and when Curbs was building the club.
Murray is still here but in a different role and Peter Varney has left. Those three moved CAFC so far that the ground, the squad, the fan base and most importantly all our expectations are a million miles from where they were when Curbs took over. And meanwhile Pro football has radically changed as well.
Curbs built at least 4 different sides in his time (the Gatting/Nelson side, the Kinsella/Rufus side, The Parker/Di Canio side and the Kish/ D Bent side. All were successes and most of those players are fondly remembered now.
I wish him well. He gave a lot to us and could have left for other jobs more than once. He was not perfect and he made mistakes but they were vastly outweighed by his many successes and examples of sound judgement.
Henry is spot on and I am glad he notes that Curbishley's reign was far from perfect. The last two years were boring beyond belief at times, OoohAaah was on the sofa whilst we *weren't* playing Brazil 1970s football. . . .
But I watched the Centenary DVD whilst on holiday (sad, no lifer etc etc) and I still got goosepimples watching the Sunderland match. Look at some of the performances he got out of players like Steve Jones, Keith Jones!, Mark bright etc etc. . .
I think he became bitter at the lack of recognition he got but it's hard to do that watching some of the crap that was served up at times.
Greatly Respected but never really loved. Which is odd really.
Good luck to Curbs and some measure of congratulations should go to him for walking in a dignified manner having had his job cut away from underneath him with broken promises by his board. Compare and contrast with Keegan who resigned for pretty much the same reasons, but without the dignity. Curbs could have gone out moaning about his situation, but didn't - he made it clear that the situation he was working under was untenable and consequently he resigned.
As for the WHU fans who wanted him out - be careful what you wish for...
They're now on their way to the next level, BFR .........with a bit of luck (ok, quite a lot, actually ....), we stand every chance of passing them in the other direction.
Comments
I acknowledge that in my post Boggzy and give the reasons it came about. I think he did play to peoples strengths too when he could. Take the 4-5-1 we played with Thomas Smertin Murphy Kish and Rommedahl. Up until then we'd always played 4-4-2 but that system brought the best out of Murphy and in turn the best out of Benty. When it stopped working for whatever reason he switched it round to make us soild and grind out some results. People whine on about dull football, and I agree it was painful to watch at times, but the fact is immediately before that we were getting turned over very easily and giving away 2-0 leads and the like. I firmly believe Curbs intended to work his way back to a more expansive style once the ship had been steadied but then for whatever reason he lost Murphy and Smertin and he had that option taken away from him. So again he did what he had to do.
The point about Ferguson is a valid one. Kinsella turned into a crab towards the end of his time with us, Mendonca was always injured, as was Rufus, Deano dropped a few clangers in his last season. No-one ever questions their status as legends because it went a little pete tong at the end, why do it with Curbs?
Can't blame the bloke for walking, any decent self respecting manager would have done the same if they had no say in the buying/selling of playing staff.
As for all the comment about the fans wanting him out, whilst it is true some were not impressed with his negative tactics (me being one of them), a poll on kumb after the transfer window closed showed nearly 90% of fans backed him.
http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=123561
As for all the unrealistic demands by fans etc comments, I don't think west ham fans are unrealistic in the slightest.
We know we will never win the league, or even come close to qualifying for the champions league for that matter.
The gulf between clubs like us and the top 4 is far to big. The only way to even get a look in is by having a proper billionaire take over and invest heavily (not a skint one like our new owner).
All we want is to see our team playing good exciting football. Not watching negative rubbish football, bringing on spector for the last 15 minutes when we are 1-0 up to shore it up.
We want to see us approach games like we did in the cup final a few years back.
Fans harp on about "the west ham way" and "the acadamy" etc. I don't think such a thing exists. But we do have a history of playing football the way it should (IMO) be played. If we don't get that (as we didn't pretty much the entire season last season) we won't sit back and simply let our traditions die.
Last comment, the reasoning behind all these player sales behind curbs back? Apparently our board are sh*ting themselves that they have lost the arbitration with sheff u, and want a substantial bulk of money ready incase we have to pay them compensation.
I think its going to be far more common practice in football in general nowadays - especially in the PL, and even more so with clubs with mental foreign owners.
That was the Pards way..........!
you can play like that in the chumpionship and still not get the result, footie is entertainment i agree but it is also about results and sometimes you need to play negative to reach the main goal of prem footie.
i think not just yourselves but there are other fans in the prem and some on here included that want entertaining football and the results and for small teams it aint going to happen.
reality is really the prem will kill football and is on the way to happening already as what is the point in being in a competion that you can never win i dont just mean the prem i mean the fa cup as well, we can all say pompey got there but taht wont happen again for years
Okay I accept that he probably stayed too long at the Valley and sure he became a little jaded and to be fair (probably) exhausted in the last couple of seasons.
However given that could anyone else have acheived what he acheived at CAFC? Personally I don't think so. He was the right man in the right place at the right time with the right team and support around him.
We will probably never know the true reasons for the fall outs with players, lets face it the first instalment of his memoirs gave absolutely nothing away although to be fair the prose style was never going to win any awards and in that alone was I think a true reflection of the man.
As someone said above away from football and TV he was a warm and friendly individual ( I was lucky enough to meet him on several occaisions) though nobody could have ever called him erudite. None the less he was always as honest as he could be when someone shoved a mike under his nose after a poor result.
That honesty is perhaps his greatest failing as someone in the spotlight. He is a man of principle and has proved it again. Can any one of us honestly say that we would have walked away from the sort of money he was on for principle? Certainly I wouldn't have. It would have been very easy for him to throw in the towel and just wait to be sacked by the Spammers with a nice big pay off but he didn't.
Perhaps we should compare that attitude with some others currently in the spotlight. Who would you trust with your money and football team? Curbs or a petulant little man from Scunthorpe who has managed to walk away from every job he's ever had as soon as the going got tough and he failed to get his own way?
Kevin Keegan is not the Messiah, never was, not as a player or manager, he's just a spoiled little brat (apologies to Graham Chapman RIP) nor is Curbs however I am pleased that it was Curbishley who was at the helm for 15 years at the club I love rather than KK.
Will he return? I doubt it and in all honesty would we want him again? The world moves on and life continues, all changing, that's what makes it such an enjoyable ride. Remember the good times, they may never come again, or they just might and if they do they will be as good as the old times - just diffrerent.
Just been out to see a client who is a CPFC ST Holder. First thing he asked is "will Charlton take Curbs back?"
Richard Murray once said that Curbs may not be the best manager in the league but he was the best manager for Charlton. West Ham aren't Charlton which was part of his problem but then again maybe we are not the same club as when RAM said that and when Curbs was building the club.
Murray is still here but in a different role and Peter Varney has left. Those three moved CAFC so far that the ground, the squad, the fan base and most importantly all our expectations are a million miles from where they were when Curbs took over. And meanwhile Pro football has radically changed as well.
Curbs built at least 4 different sides in his time (the Gatting/Nelson side, the Kinsella/Rufus side, The Parker/Di Canio side and the Kish/ D Bent side. All were successes and most of those players are fondly remembered now.
I wish him well. He gave a lot to us and could have left for other jobs more than once. He was not perfect and he made mistakes but they were vastly outweighed by his many successes and examples of sound judgement.
But I watched the Centenary DVD whilst on holiday (sad, no lifer etc etc) and I still got goosepimples watching the Sunderland match. Look at some of the performances he got out of players like Steve Jones, Keith Jones!, Mark bright etc etc. . .
I think he became bitter at the lack of recognition he got but it's hard to do that watching some of the crap that was served up at times.
Greatly Respected but never really loved. Which is odd really.
However, NEVER GO BACK!
As for the WHU fans who wanted him out - be careful what you wish for...
;o)