I think he means that when the shit was hitting the fan on the first couple of nights that the Old Bill were an utter shambles.
On many occasions people were watching the police stand by and do nothing whilst looting and robbing was taking place, it was only about on day three when they finally got a grip.
I think the Police inaction absolutely infuriated a lot of law abiding folks who have been fined by the OB for speeding, parking illegally or whatever but then saw serious criminality go seemingly unpunished.
A friend of mine - a CAFC fan - had his shop smashed up and got no help from he Police whatsoever.
A week after the riots he got done by a copper for a minor traffic offence, he was less than pleased as I am sure you can imagine.
I think its possible that the Tomlinson case and the met response to the riots are linked. As described this forum the met response was not very good.
At the time of the riots, one met officer had a manslaughter charge hanging over him after a riot.
Now put yourself in the position of a copper on duty during the riots. Is the officer thinking I can get my batton out and strick that scum bag that is looting the shop, but if I do and two minutes later he drops down dead, i'll be on a manslaughter charge.
Or I can just leave him alone, and not risk a prison sentence, losing my job, my pension, my house and put my family at risk.
Dave, are you a wind up merchant or are these legitimate opinions you have?
Whilst being slightly antagonistic with the way I have posted I do believe that people are ignoring the fact that it wasn’t just an ordinary day and he wasn’t just walking down the road minding his own business and, as sad as any loss of life is, the copper (c##t or not) didn’t just run up and beat the bloke to death in the street.
Are you seriously suggesting being a bit of a prick or not moving fast enough are worth being beaten with a baton and shoved to the ground?
It still doesn't sound any better, and frankly the "being a bit of a prick" bit is highly subjective. If I walked a certain way home each day and then suddenly was confronted by a group of coppers, I wouldn't be dashing back the way I'd come, I'd be trying to think of the best route home. Apparently taking a few moments to consider your best route gets you killed in modern Britain.
I think he means that when the shit was hitting the fan on the first couple of nights that the Old Bill were an utter shambles.
On many occasions people were watching the police stand by and do nothing whilst looting and robbing was taking place, it was only about on day three when they finally got a grip.
I think the Police inaction absolutely infuriated a lot of law abiding folks who have been fined by the OB for speeding, parking illegally or whatever but then saw serious criminality go seemingly unpunished.
A friend of mine - a CAFC fan - had his shop smashed up and got no help from he Police whatsoever.
A week after the riots he got done by a copper for a minor traffic offence, he was less than pleased as I am sure you can imagine.
I think its possible that the Tomlinson case and the met response to the riots are linked. As described this forum the met response was not very good.
At the time of the riots, one met officer had a manslaughter charge hanging over him after a riot.
Now put yourself in the position of a copper on duty during the riots. Is the officer thinking I can get my batton out and strick that scum bag that is looting the shop, but if I do and two minutes later he drops down dead, i'll be on a manslaughter charge.
Or I can just leave him alone, and not risk a prison sentence, losing my job, my pension, my house and put my family at risk.
I see what you mean but don't agree.
The Police initial response to the riots was a giant clusterfuck.
Their orders were not to "inflame" the situation by staging a violent intervention, the result of that of course was that the rioters - quite literally - ran riot and did as they pleased for 48 hours until Plod finally realised that Plan A was not really working.
Moreover, since the Old Bill already know that they are virtually immune from any successful prosecution brought by a member of the public against them I doubt that they are all that concerned about that.
After all, what court is seriously going to convict a copper of bashing a rioter?
I had a nose about during the day time but was let out early when you knew things would get uglier later that day. I crossed through Royal Exchange passage where it happened but it was quiet then.
I think they were all on their way there as this is what we encountered at St Swithins Lane on way to Cannon Street.
Are you seriously suggesting being a bit of a prick or not moving fast enough are worth being beaten with a baton and shoved to the ground?
It still doesn't sound any better, and frankly the "being a bit of a prick" bit is highly subjective. If I walked a certain way home each day and then suddenly was confronted by a group of coppers, I wouldn't be dashing back the way I'd come, I'd be trying to think of the best route home. Apparently taking a few moments to consider your best route gets you killed in modern Britain.
if i was walking home and confronted by a group of coppers DURING A RIOT id move where they told me to
Not to make light of the sad story, I once got shoved by a policeman holding a riot shield into my back, and it was entirely my own fault... 2am dancing on Nelson's column 22 June 1996. What a night that was... but i had been told to leave the area for about an hour but wouldn't listen, too busy up to shenanigans.
I'll have to look at the videos again, but from memory the area Tomlinson got hit wasn't in the midst of a full blown riot with bottles, masonary and planks being aimed at the coppers. From memory the police were walking forwards fairly calmly to close off the road, Tomlinson being a bit oblivious, drunk and maybe belligerent didn't move as quickly as he could've.
Was Harwood the closest copper to him? Or did he make his own move to push & hit him? Either way, it wasn't needed at that time.
Dave, this wasn't a bloke who suddenly turned round and fronted the police or stuck a glass in their face, he had his hands in his pockets!!
I'll have to look at the videos again, but from memory the area Tomlinson got hit wasn't in the midst of a full blown riot with bottles, masonary and planks being aimed at the coppers. From memory the police were walking forwards fairly calmly to close off the road, Tomlinson being a bit oblivious, drunk and maybe belligerent didn't move as quickly as he could've.
Was Harwood the closest copper to him? Or did he make his own move to push & hit him? Either way, it wasn't needed at that time.
Dave, this wasn't a bloke who suddenly turned round and fronted the police or stuck a glass in their face, he had his hands in his pockets!!
Tomlinson had been walking around for some time trying to leave the area but it had all been cordoned off by police. Having had a drink he was probably by then fairly sick of police orders which I doubt were "please move this way sir".
I'll have to look at the videos again, but from memory the area Tomlinson got hit wasn't in the midst of a full blown riot with bottles, masonary and planks being aimed at the coppers. From memory the police were walking forwards fairly calmly to close off the road, Tomlinson being a bit oblivious, drunk and maybe belligerent didn't move as quickly as he could've.
Was Harwood the closest copper to him? Or did he make his own move to push & hit him? Either way, it wasn't needed at that time.
Dave, this wasn't a bloke who suddenly turned round and fronted the police or stuck a glass in their face, he had his hands in his pockets!!
they were clearing the area though and told him move a number of times, he had his hands in his pockets and was deliberately slowing the process down.
if that had been someone else and they hadnt died and were having a claim up against the old bill then i think alot of people would be saying he should have got out of the way when told to.
it's not nice that he died and by all accounts the copper is an arsehole but i honestly dont belive he should have been found guilty of manslaughter.
So hitting a man in his leg with a baton and pushing him to the floor is the quickest way of clearing the area?
where have i said that?
what i will say though is how many times should the police have to ask someone to move? how much should they delay there work during a riot for one man?
I agree on that point but surely there are more effective ways of dealing with it than what he did? I believe one of the decisions the jury had to make was did he use excessive force and going on the video you would have to say yes. If he wasn't actually doing any rioting, not breaking any laws why didn't they just push him out the back of the cordon? Truth is Harwood didn't like the fact Tomlinson was taking the mick, got angry and decided to assault him.
So hitting a man in his leg with a baton and pushing him to the floor is the quickest way of clearing the area?
where have i said that?
what i will say though is how many times should the police have to ask someone to move? how much should they delay there work during a riot for one man?
As I have previously posted the police have a very difficult job, but this was not some masked hoodie getting aggressive. Just a rather ordinary bloke a bit bewildered. The sort of person the police should be protecting, and helping to get out of the area. If the guy had been swearing, and being provocative the response should have been proportianate to the situation. The copper over reacted, and seems to have a very dubious record of behaviour. Why the cps did not bring a a supplementary charge I have no idea. People do have a right to go about there way, it is called freedom. It may well be difficult and awkward to control this at times, but that is what the police are there for. I would like to think that most police try and protect people, and uphold there right to protest. This copper was simply a bad apple, there may well be others. Let us hope that the police sack this guy, and that the cps review the case.
I dont think he was bewildered. He had finished work as Standard seller (apparently) and gone to have a look at what was going on. He was pissed and making a nuisance of himself by not leaving the area when he had been asked. Most people had left bar the protestors.
That said that Harwood's response was completely over the top and unnecessary and now we find out that he shouldnt have been in the police service at all.
Comments
Are you seriously suggesting being a bit of a prick or not moving fast enough are worth being beaten with a baton and shoved to the ground?
It still doesn't sound any better, and frankly the "being a bit of a prick" bit is highly subjective. If I walked a certain way home each day and then suddenly was confronted by a group of coppers, I wouldn't be dashing back the way I'd come, I'd be trying to think of the best route home. Apparently taking a few moments to consider your best route gets you killed in modern Britain.
The Police initial response to the riots was a giant clusterfuck.
Their orders were not to "inflame" the situation by staging a violent intervention, the result of that of course was that the rioters - quite literally - ran riot and did as they pleased for 48 hours until Plod finally realised that Plan A was not really working.
Moreover, since the Old Bill already know that they are virtually immune from any successful prosecution brought by a member of the public against them I doubt that they are all that concerned about that.
After all, what court is seriously going to convict a copper of bashing a rioter?
thanks for playing though
I think they were all on their way there as this is what we encountered at St Swithins Lane on way to Cannon Street.
Was Harwood the closest copper to him? Or did he make his own move to push & hit him? Either way, it wasn't needed at that time.
Dave, this wasn't a bloke who suddenly turned round and fronted the police or stuck a glass in their face, he had his hands in his pockets!!
For assault.
The jury may not have known about Tomlinson's previous, but the Met did. Interesting to see what they do now.
if that had been someone else and they hadnt died and were having a claim up against the old bill then i think alot of people would be saying he should have got out of the way when told to.
it's not nice that he died and by all accounts the copper is an arsehole but i honestly dont belive he should have been found guilty of manslaughter.
what i will say though is how many times should the police have to ask someone to move? how much should they delay there work during a riot for one man?
Just a rather ordinary bloke a bit bewildered. The sort of person the police should be protecting, and helping to get out of the area.
If the guy had been swearing, and being provocative the response should have been proportianate to the situation.
The copper over reacted, and seems to have a very dubious record of behaviour.
Why the cps did not bring a a supplementary charge I have no idea.
People do have a right to go about there way, it is called freedom. It may well be difficult and awkward to control this at times, but that is what the police are there for. I would like to think that most police try and protect people, and uphold there right to protest. This copper was simply a bad apple, there may well be others. Let us hope that the police sack this guy, and that the cps review the case.
That said that Harwood's response was completely over the top and unnecessary and now we find out that he shouldnt have been in the police service at all.
R.I.P to him.