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Ian Tomlinson
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Innocent of manslaughter in the courts, but according to 3 coroners, his actions caused the death.Henry Irving said:
So true but that will go straight over a few headsMrOneLung said:As stated on on threads re other cases - found not guilty, an innocent man.
The courts found the Lawrence 5 innocent first of all, that didn't stop people calling them guilty did it?
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thats gone over some peoples heads sparrows0
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If you or I had behaved in the same way we would have gone down for manslaughter - fail to see how it was reasonable force.
Let's hope the civil action succeeds.....0 -
They found the Guildford 4 guilty ...doesn't mean they were. The courts and jurys do get it wrong.Henry Irving said:
So true but that will go straight over a few headsMrOneLung said:As stated on on threads re other cases - found not guilty, an innocent man.
People are found innocent/ guilty in the eyes of the law but doesn't always mean they are.0 -
What a surprise, the copper gets off.
And then people wonder why ordinary people have no faith in the system.0 -
innocent like mr terry and mr redknap0
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I agree with the verdict because there is no way we can be certain that what Simon Harwood did killed Ian Tomlinson0
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Good cop, back cop. This bloke shouldn't have been a cop.0
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Harwood was a bully and a thug given licence to violence by the Metropolitan Police. His record stinks and his actions should have resulted in a conviction and custodial sentence.0
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Could not agree more.ShootersHillGuru said:Harwood was a bully and a thug given licence to violence by the Metropolitan Police. His record stinks and his actions should have resulted in a conviction and custodial sentence.
Does anyone know if the Met are going to allow him to carry on with his wonderful career or are not even they that crass?0 -
Agree with it being a massive coincidence but you cannot lock somebody up on a coincidence you never know Tomlinson may of died even if the incident never happened.se9addick said:
Pretty big coincidence then !cafc4ever said:I agree with the verdict because there is no way we can be certain that what Simon Harwood did killed Ian Tomlinson
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No you're right, you can't lock someone up on a coincidence. But this wasn't .cafc4ever said:
Agree with it being a massive coincidence but you cannot lock somebody up on a coincidence you never know Tomlinson may of died even if the incident never happened.se9addick said:
Pretty big coincidence then !cafc4ever said:I agree with the verdict because there is no way we can be certain that what Simon Harwood did killed Ian Tomlinson
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So he may have died from internal bleeding even if the incident had never happened? Seems unlikely.cafc4ever said:
Agree with it being a massive coincidence but you cannot lock somebody up on a coincidence you never know Tomlinson may of died even if the incident never happened.se9addick said:
Pretty big coincidence then !cafc4ever said:I agree with the verdict because there is no way we can be certain that what Simon Harwood did killed Ian Tomlinson
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Wish I had been on that jury. I would have taken quite lot of convincing to have let Harwood off.0
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There is no proof that Harwood's push caused the internal bleeding !Czech_Addick said:
So he may have died from internal bleeding even if the incident had never happened? Seems unlikely.cafc4ever said:
Agree with it being a massive coincidence but you cannot lock somebody up on a coincidence you never know Tomlinson may of died even if the incident never happened.se9addick said:
Pretty big coincidence then !cafc4ever said:I agree with the verdict because there is no way we can be certain that what Simon Harwood did killed Ian Tomlinson
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Harwood...........smug bas****d, licenced to bully, serial offender, embarrassment to the Met......and still has his liberty.
What a farce, Harwood's form is presented after the trial.
Let's hope civil justice is successful.
Just a man going home from work, Ian Tomlinson may have had personal problems but didn't deserve this treatment prior to his passing, it could have been any of us.
RIP Ian Tomlinson0 -
I thought that was proven but whether it led to the heart attack couldn't be proven?cafc4ever said:
There is no proof that Harwood's push caused the internal bleeding !Czech_Addick said:
So he may have died from internal bleeding even if the incident had never happened? Seems unlikely.cafc4ever said:
Agree with it being a massive coincidence but you cannot lock somebody up on a coincidence you never know Tomlinson may of died even if the incident never happened.se9addick said:
Pretty big coincidence then !cafc4ever said:I agree with the verdict because there is no way we can be certain that what Simon Harwood did killed Ian Tomlinson
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Really? Glad you bothered to read any of the case details. There were three pathologists who reviewed the pathology report and found that Dr Patel's procedure was error strewn and that Tomlinson died of internal bleeding: with very little evidence for coronary artery disease being a factor in his death. Patel throwing away three litres of fluid in his stomach cavity, made it difficult to definitively prove that internal bleeding was a close to definite cause.cafc4ever said:
There is no proof that Harwood's push caused the internal bleeding !
All forensic evidence is fallible. Three pathologists who state that Tomlinson's internal bleeing was consistent with the whack he received, whilst coronary disease was highly unlikely to be the cause, is for me beyond reasonable doubt. There is considerable proof if you bother to read the evidence, even that printed in shit newspapers. I'd say three pathologists some of whom undertook another autopsy, and came to a conclusion based on this that the injury sustained was consistent with the violent push, is as close to much 'proof' you'll get in any trial without a puncture injury. Absolute proof? You've been watching too many cretinous CSI programmes.
I empathise with police in these scenarios where crowds are jostling and chalenging both verbally and physically: I could certainly understand the black officer hitting out at a verbally agressive female protestor in a crowd of people, around this time. But that is wholly different to an oldish man ambling around, not invading or agressing into the police's space, or demonstrating and remonstrating. The man was trying to get home, and the police were not under threat from a person who turned around and started to amble off.
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In bed with the press? You don't see much news do you. It couldn't be proved he died as a result of the push.Sparrows Lane Lion said:
Bad press? Ain't they in bed with the press? They get a fantastic press in my opinion and are rarely exposed.CrayAddick said:Found not guilty.
To reiterate my point the media never tell the full story. The police get bad press considering the fantastic job they do day in and day out.
Justice is Justice. Trust me the police in London are one of the best in the world compared to most countries.
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Mate I'm not sure if you've read the case details but from my understanding a jury has already decided that Harwoods baton strike (the fact that you keep saying "push" when pathologists have said the baton strike was probably the most fundamental event makes me think perhaps you don't know what you're talking about) led to Tomlinsons death, and that his death was unlawful.cafc4ever said:
There is no proof that Harwood's push caused the internal bleeding !Czech_Addick said:
So he may have died from internal bleeding even if the incident had never happened? Seems unlikely.cafc4ever said:
Agree with it being a massive coincidence but you cannot lock somebody up on a coincidence you never know Tomlinson may of died even if the incident never happened.se9addick said:
Pretty big coincidence then !cafc4ever said:I agree with the verdict because there is no way we can be certain that what Simon Harwood did killed Ian Tomlinson
I believe this trial was to determine if Harwood was guilty of the specific crime of manslaughter - that he is responsible for the death isn't really beyond reasonable doubt.0 -
I still can't undertsand how this can not be manslaughter. Justice has a tear in her eye this morning.0
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Justice has been shamed.
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A baton strike, not a push.CrayAddick said:
In bed with the press? You don't see much news do you. It couldn't be proved he died as a result of the push.Sparrows Lane Lion said:
Bad press? Ain't they in bed with the press? They get a fantastic press in my opinion and are rarely exposed.CrayAddick said:Found not guilty.
To reiterate my point the media never tell the full story. The police get bad press considering the fantastic job they do day in and day out.
Justice is Justice. Trust me the police in London are one of the best in the world compared to most countries.
So now because the Met are better than some of the corrupt forces across the world it's ok to let off a policeman who batoned & pushed an innocent member of the public causing his death?
I'll say one thing, if Ian Tomlinson was black, the black community would be in uproar and rightly so, whereas we are all sticking up for a thug in uniform!
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Only a couple of here are sticking up for him.0
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Yeah in fairness I don't think many are sticking up for him, and that will be the opinion in society at large.0
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Can I put a different slant on things. We saw last night an Assistant Deputy Commissioner admitting that the Management of Police Forces had completely failed to deal with this rogue thug of a Police Officer, despite all of the evidence being available.
Add to this the incompetent management of GT4S who have greedily grabbed the income available from the Olympic Games, but utterly failed to do their job properly.
Then consider why Lord Coe etc did not have in place proper review of progress in this crucial area, throw in a Home Secretary who appears to be lying about exactly when she was aware of the problem, and you begin to see a mass of incompetent management.
I was a young Police Officer in the Sixties watching University Graduates being fast tracked to senior posts with no idea of what policing involved. To a large extent our society is now dominated by greed and self serving, and there is evidence of this everywhere you look, starting with successive Governments.
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could have all been prevented it he hadnt been a prick about it and moved when he was told to.0
