[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]
Sure, if you can take people on a season-long loan then that's a bit different (as Swindon did with Danny Ward from Bolton last year) but bringing in people short-term worries me, you certainly are not seeing Saints, Brighton or Huddersfield doing it.
From memory, Ward joined them about the start of December, so that's only one extra month or so then Bostock would get. If the boy is here for the rest of the season, I'd say that's long enough to make it worthwhile.
Similarly with Fry, initially came here until January and his loan has only been extended until the start of February at the moment, so how were we know when we got him that it would be extended?
As for your suggestion that we only take established players on loan, do you remember Lee Cook? Rated as one of the best players in the whole league 6 months before we signed him, and look how that turned out!
My take on it is that Bostock has the potential to single-handedly get us goals and therefore points. We have very few players, especially after Martin has departed) who have that same potential, so for that alone he's worth a stab.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]
Sure, if you can take people on a season-long loan then that's a bit different (as Swindon did with Danny Ward from Bolton last year) but bringing in people short-term worries me, you certainly are not seeing Saints, Brighton or Huddersfield doing it.
From memory, Ward joined them about the start of December, so that's only one extra month or so then Bostock would get. If the boy is here for the rest of the season, I'd say that's long enough to make it worthwhile.
Similarly with Fry, initially came here until January and his loan has only been extended until the start of February at the moment, so how were we know when we got him that it would be extended?
As for your suggestion that we only take established players on loan, do you remember Lee Cook? Rated as one of the best players in the whole league 6 months before we signed him, and look how that turned out!
My take on it is that Bostock has the potential to single-handedly get us goals and therefore points. We have very few players, especially after Martin has departed) who have that same potential, so for that alone he's worth a stab.
You can use the example of Lee Cook as a poor experienced loanee but there are also examples of some pretty useful ones, namely Darren Ward, Gary Borrowdale and (before we signed him permanently) Sam Sodje.
By contrast, the young ones have not set the world alight, Scott Sinclair, Tom Soares and a couple of others spring to mind.
We will see soon enough how these two do (if we sign Bostock) but our recent history of these deals is not great.
At this level Bostock is the type of player you build a team around. We could have done that with Jonjo (who we know was committed to the cause) but Parky chose not to. That also means playing only one up front and do we have the "Darren Bent" type player that enables us to do it? Equally, there will be games (especially at home) where we will need to go 4-4-2 with two strikers and I can't see him being one of two midfielders. Would he be happy to be on the bench then?
So, overall, whilst he has a great left foot and can open up defences, with his "history" and the fact that it is the sum of the total that counts, it's a no from me.
The way I see it he's young, he's surrounded by YES MEN telling him he's awesome and he needs grounding - hopefully Powell can do that.
Take a look at that free kick on YouTube - it's superb technique. Most footballers have an element of technique but from what I've seen and read he could be really special if he sorts his head out.
He's played 24 times in his professional career - that's nothing. Let's give him a few games and see how he pans out
Basically, CP has got enough on his plate without having ' people with attitude ' to deal with. If we actually decided knowingly to bring in that sort of problem at this time, it would not bode well for the new management team.
[cite]Posted By: Granpa[/cite]Basically, CP has got enough on his plate without having ' people with attitude ' to deal with. If we actually decided knowingly to bring in that sort of problem at this time, it would not bode well for the new management team.
I think we need some players with attitude, we dont seem to have had any for a while and what is wrong with a bit of attitude? Lets opt for the boring dont try anything pass backwards and sidewards kind of player we are used t. Its safe but gets you know where, sometimes you need to take a punt, with the likes of CP and Dailly around him i can see it being a great move.
One of the signs of a "great" manager is being able to take an under-performer with talent and get the best out of them in a team environment. Warnock, for example, is excellent at this. Perhaps CP will be too?
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]
Sure, if you can take people on a season-long loan then that's a bit different (as Swindon did with Danny Ward from Bolton last year) but bringing in people short-term worries me, you certainly are not seeing Saints, Brighton or Huddersfield doing it.
From memory, Ward joined them about the start of December, so that's only one extra month or so then Bostock would get. If the boy is here for the rest of the season, I'd say that's long enough to make it worthwhile.
Similarly with Fry, initially came here until January and his loan has only been extended until the start of February at the moment, so how were we know when we got him that it would be extended?
As for your suggestion that we only take established players on loan, do you remember Lee Cook? Rated as one of the best players in the whole league 6 months before we signed him, and look how that turned out!
My take on it is that Bostock has the potential to single-handedly get us goals and therefore points. We have very few players, especially after Martin has departed) who have that same potential, so for that alone he's worth a stab.
You can use the example of Lee Cook as a poor experienced loanee but there are also examples of some pretty useful ones, namely Darren Ward, Gary Borrowdale and (before we signed him permanently) Sam Sodje.
By contrast, the young ones have not set the world alight, Scott Sinclair, Tom Soares and a couple of others spring to mind.
We will see soon enough how these two do (if we sign Bostock) but our recent history of these deals is not great.
Yes, what it boils down to is that like in the debate of whether to hire an experienced or inexperienced manager, there's more than just their history that affects it. Arguably the biggest determinant in whether it being successful is luck!
We've got to remember that any signings we do make are coming to a league 1 club for a reason. Namely that there is at least 1 flaw in their game which prevents them being successful in higher leagues. There's no guarantees down here, even someone like Paynter who was dynamite last season in this league, hasn't set the world alight in the league above and has been injured for a while.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]You can use the example of Lee Cook as a poor experienced loanee
Lee Cook had received a career threatening injury in the previous summer's pre-season training, and came to us in the February having missed that entire season so far except for a couple of recent reserve games.
In plain terms he was hopelessly lacking any match fitness - and having not played any1st team competitive games since the previous season was at the time he signed, far behind other players in stamina and sharpness.
Cook was sent here by his club to get fit and some playing time under his belt.
Pardew gambled that Cook would able to play some useful role, but in actuality the player was a physical write-off for the season - as we saw.
Cook is the kind player we need to avoid. Coming here to get fit and get match practice, but have the attitude that this is all they are here to do. They need to have the attitude to make an impact and prove they are worthy of a place in their parent club squad.
We send players out on loan for match practice, but the likes of Stavrinou, Mambo and Jenkinson have done well when on loan elsewhere and made a difference where they were. But if they were there just to get fit then there is no point to the club they are being loaned too.
Martin i feel was giving his all for us, so in effect a good loan. Fry is the same in my opinion. A couple of dodgy games but a few very good ones.
If a player comes to us, performs and has the right attitude i have no problem with loans at all. If Bostock comes and does the business so be it, i'm happy. if he comes a rocks the boat then get rid.
All this talk of bad attitude and unable to make it at Brentford seems to show scant respect for the professional opinion of our new manager. If Chris Powell thinks that Bostock is the sort of player he can work with then I suspect he has a bit more knowledge and insight than those on here criticising his choice of player. All said with the greatest of respect you understand. ;0)
I'd back Chris Powell any day to take on a talented black, with attitude, youngster. The kid has had his head turned inside out by greedy people aound him, including family that should have cared about him rather than the money. If Chris Powell reckons he's worth a go, that'll be good enough for me.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]All this talk of bad attitude and unable to make it at Brentford seems to show scant respect for the professional opinion of our new manager. If Chris Powell thinks that Bostock is the sort of player he can work with then I suspect he has a bit more knowledge and insight than those on here criticising his choice of player. All said with the greatest of respect you understand. ;0)
Would you be saying that if it was Parky potentially signing him?
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]All this talk of bad attitude and unable to make it at Brentford seems to show scant respect for the professional opinion of our new manager. If Chris Powell thinks that Bostock is the sort of player he can work with then I suspect he has a bit more knowledge and insight than those on here criticising his choice of player. All said with the greatest of respect you understand. ;0)
Would you be saying that if it was Parky potentially signing him?
To be honest probably yes. I never really critisised Parkys choice of player but hated his style of football.
From the Daily mail interview when he made his debut aged 15:
Neil McGregor, deputy head teacher and head of PE at the Nautical School in Blackfriars, said: 'He has a lot of humility, he's very honest and there is no danger of him ever becoming a Big Time Charlie. His feet are firmly on the ground and we're very proud of him.
Well, I wonder what he thinks now? Hope CP can ground him and get him concentrating on his football, rather than the "Circus" that goes with it.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]At this level Bostock is the type of player you build a team around. We could have done that with Jonjo (who we know was committed to the cause) but Parky chose not to.
But AA, Don't you think that PP was probably thinking "what's the point of building a team around this player?" knowing full well that as soon as someone came up with the right price, he'd be gone, leaving a big gap in his system with no-one at the club able to fill it and no money to buy a replacement? Nevertheless, still raised my eyebrows at the amount of times he didn't start games last season.
[cite]Posted By: tangoflash[/cite]From the Daily mail interview when he made his debut aged 15:
Neil McGregor, deputy head teacher and head of PE at the Nautical School in Blackfriars, said: 'He has a lot of humility, he's very honest and there is no danger of him ever becoming a Big Time Charlie. His feet are firmly on the ground and we're very proud of him.
Well, I wonder what he thinks now? Hope CP can ground him and get him concentrating on his football, rather than the "Circus" that goes with it.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]At this level Bostock is the type of player you build a team around. We could have done that with Jonjo (who we know was committed to the cause) but Parky chose not to.
But AA, Don't you think that PP was probably thinking "what's the point of building a team around this player?" knowing full well that as soon as someone came up with the right price, he'd be gone, leaving a big gap in his system with no-one at the club able to fill it and no money to buy a replacement? Nevertheless, still raised my eyebrows at the amount of times he didn't start games last season.
If the reason PP didn't pick Jonjo was because he thought he would soon be gone I would conclude that PP was a worse manager than even I thought.
Not saying he didn't pick Shelvey for that reason, just maybe his reason for not building a team around him. Like most of us, i'm at a loss as to why he didn't pick him as often as he should have. Uncle, he did have a system. I just think it was SO complexed that us mere mortals didn't have the intelligence to get to grips with it, and that includes the players. :-)
[quote][cite]Posted By: tangoflash[/cite]Not saying he didn't pick Shelvey for that reason, just maybe his reason for not building a team around him. Like most of us, i'm at a loss as to why he didn't pick him as often as he should have. Uncle, he did have a system. I just think it was SO complexed that us mere mortals didn't have the intelligence to get to grips with it, and that includes the players. :-)[/quote]
Colchester got used to a system under Parky.
We just weren't good enough/didn't want to play for him.
His system was fundamentally knock it long and hope it stuck to the front man. If that didn't work plan b was knock it long and hope it stuck to the front man. For what it's worth I think Shelvey even at his tender age realised this "system" was crap and bucked against it leading to not getting in the team.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]All this talk of bad attitude and unable to make it at Brentford seems to show scant respect for the professional opinion of our new manager. If Chris Powell thinks that Bostock is the sort of player he can work with then I suspect he has a bit more knowledge and insight than those on here criticising his choice of player. All said with the greatest of respect you understand. ;0)
Would you be saying that if it was Parky potentially signing him?
To be honest probably yes. I never really critisised Parkys choice of player but hated his style of football.
Totally agree with that, he'd be a very good director of football.
Has the trail gone cold on this one ? Two days ago it seemed done and dusted .
My personal opinion has not really changed from last year in that I think he would be worth a punt although this time I have a different reason .
Last year I was concerned about the lack of genuine left footers up pitch . Ironically with Jackson , Reid and even Harriot that is not so much of an issue now .
However , Bostock could have the quality in a central position that we seem to have lacked since Shelvey left ( when he played ) and give us genuine options and make us less one dimensional.
[cite]Posted By: Richard J[/cite]Has the trail gone cold on this one ? Two days ago it seemed done and dusted .
My personal opinion has not really changed from last year in that I think he would be worth a punt although this time I have a different reason .
Last year I was concerned about the lack of genuine left footers up pitch . Ironically with Jackson , Reid and even Harriot that is not so much of an issue now .
However , Bostock could have the quality in a central position that we seem to have lacked since Shelvey left ( when he played ) and give us genuine options and make us less one dimensional.
I'll see if I can find him on Twitter. Its the only way to find out the truth.
I think this thread should be not commented on anymore.
Bostock is not coming to us and that's the way it should stay in the future. His attitude stinks and is clearly a pugnacious character, this club is going places and I think we'll just be held back with players like Bostock.
Powell knows the players he wants; players who want to play for us and want to wear the shirt. Bostock just isn't that sort of player. He will cause trouble here, his head nor his heart just isn't in the game, undoubtably has the talent if he was to use it correctly, but it's thanks but no thanks from me.
Comments
From memory, Ward joined them about the start of December, so that's only one extra month or so then Bostock would get. If the boy is here for the rest of the season, I'd say that's long enough to make it worthwhile.
Similarly with Fry, initially came here until January and his loan has only been extended until the start of February at the moment, so how were we know when we got him that it would be extended?
As for your suggestion that we only take established players on loan, do you remember Lee Cook? Rated as one of the best players in the whole league 6 months before we signed him, and look how that turned out!
My take on it is that Bostock has the potential to single-handedly get us goals and therefore points. We have very few players, especially after Martin has departed) who have that same potential, so for that alone he's worth a stab.
You can use the example of Lee Cook as a poor experienced loanee but there are also examples of some pretty useful ones, namely Darren Ward, Gary Borrowdale and (before we signed him permanently) Sam Sodje.
By contrast, the young ones have not set the world alight, Scott Sinclair, Tom Soares and a couple of others spring to mind.
We will see soon enough how these two do (if we sign Bostock) but our recent history of these deals is not great.
So, overall, whilst he has a great left foot and can open up defences, with his "history" and the fact that it is the sum of the total that counts, it's a no from me.
Take a look at that free kick on YouTube - it's superb technique. Most footballers have an element of technique but from what I've seen and read he could be really special if he sorts his head out.
He's played 24 times in his professional career - that's nothing. Let's give him a few games and see how he pans out
I think we need some players with attitude, we dont seem to have had any for a while and what is wrong with a bit of attitude? Lets opt for the boring dont try anything pass backwards and sidewards kind of player we are used t. Its safe but gets you know where, sometimes you need to take a punt, with the likes of CP and Dailly around him i can see it being a great move.
Yes, what it boils down to is that like in the debate of whether to hire an experienced or inexperienced manager, there's more than just their history that affects it. Arguably the biggest determinant in whether it being successful is luck!
We've got to remember that any signings we do make are coming to a league 1 club for a reason. Namely that there is at least 1 flaw in their game which prevents them being successful in higher leagues. There's no guarantees down here, even someone like Paynter who was dynamite last season in this league, hasn't set the world alight in the league above and has been injured for a while.
Lee Cook had received a career threatening injury in the previous summer's pre-season training, and came to us in the February having missed that entire season so far except for a couple of recent reserve games.
In plain terms he was hopelessly lacking any match fitness - and having not played any1st team competitive games since the previous season was at the time he signed, far behind other players in stamina and sharpness.
Cook was sent here by his club to get fit and some playing time under his belt.
Pardew gambled that Cook would able to play some useful role, but in actuality the player was a physical write-off for the season - as we saw.
We send players out on loan for match practice, but the likes of Stavrinou, Mambo and Jenkinson have done well when on loan elsewhere and made a difference where they were. But if they were there just to get fit then there is no point to the club they are being loaned too.
Martin i feel was giving his all for us, so in effect a good loan. Fry is the same in my opinion. A couple of dodgy games but a few very good ones.
If a player comes to us, performs and has the right attitude i have no problem with loans at all. If Bostock comes and does the business so be it, i'm happy. if he comes a rocks the boat then get rid.
Would you be saying that if it was Parky potentially signing him?
To be honest probably yes. I never really critisised Parkys choice of player but hated his style of football.
Neil McGregor, deputy head teacher and head of PE at the Nautical School in Blackfriars, said: 'He has a lot of humility, he's very honest and there is no danger of him ever becoming a Big Time Charlie. His feet are firmly on the ground and we're very proud of him.
Well, I wonder what he thinks now? Hope CP can ground him and get him concentrating on his football, rather than the "Circus" that goes with it.
But AA, Don't you think that PP was probably thinking "what's the point of building a team around this player?" knowing full well that as soon as someone came up with the right price, he'd be gone, leaving a big gap in his system with no-one at the club able to fill it and no money to buy a replacement? Nevertheless, still raised my eyebrows at the amount of times he didn't start games last season.
If the reason PP didn't pick Jonjo was because he thought he would soon be gone I would conclude that PP was a worse manager than even I thought.
He had a system?
Colchester got used to a system under Parky.
We just weren't good enough/didn't want to play for him.
Totally agree with that, he'd be a very good director of football.
My personal opinion has not really changed from last year in that I think he would be worth a punt although this time I have a different reason .
Last year I was concerned about the lack of genuine left footers up pitch . Ironically with Jackson , Reid and even Harriot that is not so much of an issue now .
However , Bostock could have the quality in a central position that we seem to have lacked since Shelvey left ( when he played ) and give us genuine options and make us less one dimensional.
I'll see if I can find him on Twitter. Its the only way to find out the truth.
Bostock is not coming to us and that's the way it should stay in the future. His attitude stinks and is clearly a pugnacious character, this club is going places and I think we'll just be held back with players like Bostock.
Powell knows the players he wants; players who want to play for us and want to wear the shirt. Bostock just isn't that sort of player. He will cause trouble here, his head nor his heart just isn't in the game, undoubtably has the talent if he was to use it correctly, but it's thanks but no thanks from me.
Did you comment on this thread to tell us that?