[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Rooney used to be the exception in that he would perform for both his club and country and act professionally to get the job done. Now he's just like the rest of them. You get the feeling they think they're doing the country a favour by playing for Engalnd rather than playing with some purpose and passion. There's so many players I would have included in the World Cup squad instead of some of the wasters who are out there.
Am I the only one who thinks there's more to football than a neat little tick box labelled 'passion'? So Rooney used to try but now doesn't, and his performance has followed in a nice little correlation?
Could it not for reasons like his ankle injury? Or the fact he missed a lot of the end of the premiership season and is hence probably rusty? It would seem you're genuinely suggesting that he could be bothered in the routine qualifying games where he scored so many goals, but now can't be bothered on one of the biggest stages he'll play on in his career.
I haven't whittled Englands entire performance down to passion. It was just one point. You've completely missed my point.
Sorry if I've missed your point, but what does "Rooney used to be the exception in that he would perform for both his club and country and act professionally to get the job done. Now he's just like the rest of them" mean?
[cite]Posted By: JohnBoyUK[/cite]Can someone tell me if Frank Lampard has EVER had a decent game in an England shirt? Can anyone remember one? I cant.
Abysmal. No other word for that performance tonight.
Have just cancelled my planned Wednesday afternoon off. Cant bear to watch another 90 minutes of that rubbish.[/quo
Lampard hasnt played well for england in years, but the reason we consistently stick with the gerrards, the lampards and the rooneys, regardless of their performances, is because they have that ability to do something spectacular at any moment. OK, they haven't so far, but keep the faith.
We all share your frustration.
The thing about Rooney is that, well, he's a moron. Morons say and do moronic things. He just happens to be a great footballer (though on his 'performances' here you'd be hard-pressed not to laugh at anyone saying that). I understand that Rooney's a fool. I understand that he will say, and do foolish things. What I DON'T understand is that, after a performance as abject and dismal as that, ITV focus a camera on him straight after the game, when they can clearly see he's either not fit or not right in the head, and liable to say something stupid - then, knowing they've caught him doing just that but it's happened when they've already cut to adverts, they repeat it on air for the benefit of the viewing public.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not questioning it because I'm concerned about it hurting Rooney's feelings, or damaging his reputation (he's paid 120 grand a week to kick a f***ing ball around for Christ's sake), but because all it does - ALL it does - is f*** the country off even more when they are supposed to want the fans supporting the team.
No-one comes out of that with any credit except Barry. The only one who remotely did a job tonight. It was by far the worst performance I've ever seen from an England side - as inept (considering the alleged level these players are at and paucity of quality in the opposition) as some of the Charlton performances of the Dowie/Reed/Pardew era.
Still - like I said the other day - at least most of you only have one lot of underperforming, underachieving c***s to get sickened by - being half-dayglo I have had to sit through both Spanish and English torture every four years for as long as I can remember. Can see that continuing again this year.
Overpaid, whinging, classless, thick primadonna c***s the lot of them.
Capello came out with the statement that players will be picked on form a short time ago. When the squad was announced you could see that he wasn't being true to his word. You can see it even more after the first two games.
And where is the plan B? Why didn't he learn from the recent friendlies where England were crap in both first halves, changes were made at half time and had an impact. I know that you get unlimited subs in the friendlies but managers with balls like Mourinho would not hesitate to bring on three half time substitutes.
Rooney would never have stayed on the pitch for 90 minutes if he had performed like that for Sir Alec. And Heskey is a reserve in a mid-table EPL side FFS.
There's nothing different in the rest of the squad apart from, maybe, Joe Cole so can we expect anything different on Wednesday? I bloody hope so, especially as I fly into London on the morning of that game, but I fully expect to see an unchanged system.
Capello, has a management vision of how this team should play, and that does not seem to be playing Rooney upfront with Gerrard behind, and Joe Cole. He seems to have a plan 'A' then if it does not work then little else, except put on Crouch for the last 10 minutes or so, and feels heskey is the hold up front player. ( surprissing that he was playing centre half at one stage!) In the USA game he did a decent job, last night like the majority of England players they simply did not perform , and at one stage you wondered who was playing where!. I agree with the points re Rooney he seems to either be unfit, or carrying an injury!..... None of our so called top players performed!. Thought that Barry had a decent game, baring in mind his return from injury!. The shape and balance of the team is wrong, and the players seem confussed, cannot blame them I am as well!
complaining about England's dismal game, players' attitude during national anthelm, Roon's rant at the end and odds of getting through to next stage??? You can at least be happy for one thing .... France are worse off : their game was even worse than England, most of them don't sing their anthelm (either because they don't know the lyrics or their loyalties lie elsewhere), nobody believes they can go further and the big headlines today is what Le Sulk said to Domenech at half time : "va te faire enc*** ", which is a harder version of f**off.
Ok I didn't comment last night, because I had nothing different to say.
We have to win on Wednesday, so the team should be IMO :-
JAMES
JOHNSON TERRY UPSON A COLE
LENNON GERRARD BARRY J COLE
DEFOE CROUCH
That team surely will get goals. Upson must play before Dawson as he was in the original squad, although I don't rate him & would probably go with Dawson myself.
Lennon or SWP - little difference IMO. J Cole in for Lampard as Lampard never produces for England particularly with Gerrard in the team.
Gerrard should have a free role more in the middle, with J Cole on the left and Barry sitting back. J Cole generally plays well for England.
Crouch & Defoe are more likely to score than an off form / injured Rooney & Heskey who will never get you goals.
I couldn't understand the substitutions last night. It was obvious very early on we were struggling & I think J Cole should have come on 10 mins into the second half in place of Lampard & Gerrard should have moved to the middle.
I would also have brought on either Defoe for Rooney or Crouch for Heskey to begin with & if we still hadn't scored I would have made the other substitution, with 15 mins to go.
I'm quite confident we would have won, if he had done so.
I rate Capello & can't see what the problem is other than the usual Gerrard & Lampard don't play well together & Rooney was abysmal for whatever reason. If he had sorted that out then I'd like to think the rest would have fallen into place.
If he does the above I think we will win well on Wednesday (famous last words).
attitude during national anthelms is a big debate, deserves another thread. But Henry, you've got it wrong on loyalties. There's not one algerian player whose loyalty can be questioned. No way. France is practically their enemy. Am surprised no one mentioned the crap behaviour of the algerian fans whistling every time their players were not in possession. But then, you have the same elsewhere, in Turkey, in Greece and even in Spain.
The FA have repeated the same stupid mistake they made with the swede by removing the break clause BEFORE the tournament. When Sven revealed himself to be utterly clueless in the world cup, England were stuck with him for several more years on the basis of it, and he was a total lame duck.
They have now repeated the exact same error with Capello who, if he has any honour (Sven didnt) should resign if England are knocked out at the group stage. Doubtless he'll carry on taking the money too.
Players who should be out there: Adam Johnson, Agbonlahor, Bent and Parker.
Really don't see how 3-5-2 is the way to go. Very few teams use it now, and there must be good reasons for that. A lot of work for the wing backs for one I'd imagine.
[cite]Posted By: IdleHans[/cite]The FA have repeated the same stupid mistake they made with the swede by removing the break clause BEFORE the tournament. When Sven revealed himself to be utterly clueless in the world cup, England were stuck with him for several more years on the basis of it, and he was a total lame duck.
Wrong to give him an extension, probably. I don't see how Sven was clueless though, 3 quarter finals is pretty decent. Was far better than McClaren and Keegan.
4-3-3 have said it for years this formation is so basic and works its how Brazil have won 5 yes 5 WC's we have won 1. 2 attackers is not enough attack force this is why Darren Bent should be there in the first place so when we are drawing with Algeria 0-0 with ten mins to go we can reverty to this and win the game. Howver what do i know.
Players who should be out there: Adam Johnson, Agbonlahor, Bent and Parker.
Really don't see how 3-5-2 is the way to go. Very few teams use it now, and there must be good reasons for that. A lot of work for the wing backs for one I'd imagine.
[cite]Posted By: IdleHans[/cite]The FA have repeated the same stupid mistake they made with the swede by removing the break clause BEFORE the tournament. When Sven revealed himself to be utterly clueless in the world cup, England were stuck with him for several more years on the basis of it, and he was a total lame duck.
Wrong to give him an extension, probably. I don't see how Sven was clueless though, 3 quarter finals is pretty decent. Was far better than McClaren and Keegan.
....and Capello at this rate!
I just think 3-5-2 could work as we have two attacking full backs and no decent wingers in the squad. It would also allow us to play Gerrard in the middle behind a front two. The only other option I can see is 4-5-1 with Rooney up on his own and staying up there no matter how frustrated he gets.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]It doesn't matter what formation we play if we can't keep the ball. You cannot afford to give the ball away at International level.
Agree with that, one of England's biggest weaknesses.
[cite]Posted By: Ru1986[/cite]4-3-3 have said it for years this formation is so basic and works its how Brazil have won 5 yes 5 WC's we have won 1. 2 attackers is not enough attack force this is why Darren Bent should be there in the first place so when we are drawing with Algeria 0-0 with ten mins to go we can reverty to this and win the game. Howver what do i know.
I like Bent like we all do, but he wouldn't have done anything in that game. Team didn't keep the ball and create enough chances. None of the strikers looked good, but they need more of the ball.
[cite]Posted By: Ru1986[/cite]No 3-5-2 will make sod all difference 4-3-3 is what we need attack attack attack.
What 3 would you have up front?
It doesn't matter what formation we play if we can't keep the ball. You cannot afford to give the ball away at International level.
Personally i would play crouch in the middle because hes difficult for defenses to deal with because hes a bizzare shape of a humanbeing. Defoe and Bent on the outside of him i am not sure it would have worked last night cos we were just naturally poo but it would look allot more threatening Rooney after last night doesn't deserve to wear the shirt well tbh none of them do least of all him.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]It doesn't matter what formation we play if we can't keep the ball. You cannot afford to give the ball away at International level.
Agree with that, one of England's biggest weaknesses.
[cite]Posted By: Ru1986[/cite]4-3-3 have said it for years this formation is so basic and works its how Brazil have won 5 yes 5 WC's we have won 1. 2 attackers is not enough attack force this is why Darren Bent should be there in the first place so when we are drawing with Algeria 0-0 with ten mins to go we can reverty to this and win the game. Howver what do i know.
I like Bent like we all do, but he wouldn't have done anything in that game. Team didn't keep the ball and create enough chances. None of the strikers looked good, but they need more of the ball.
While Darren might not have changed much hes top english goal scored in the top english division behind Rooney and you dont take him, questions need to be asked there i think too.
[cite]Posted By: Ru1986[/cite]No 3-5-2 will make sod all difference 4-3-3 is what we need attack attack attack.
What 3 would you have up front?
It doesn't matter what formation we play if we can't keep the ball. You cannot afford to give the ball away at International level.
Personally i would play crouch in the middle because hes difficult for defenses to deal with because hes a bizzare shape of a humanbeing. Defoe and Bent on the outside of him i am not sure it would have worked last night cos we were just naturally poo but it would look allot more threatening Rooney after last night doesn't deserve to wear the shirt well tbh none of them do least of all him.
[cite]Posted By: Ru1986[/cite]While Darren might not have changed much hes top english goal scored in the top english division behind Rooney and you dont take him, questions need to be asked there i think too.
That's not what I was saying, point was he would have had no effect last night. Of course with his record he deserved to be in the squad (though I can kind of understand why he wasn't in).
[cite]Posted By: Ru1986[/cite]Ok so replace Bent with Rooney who is in the squad.
Comments
Sorry if I've missed your point, but what does "Rooney used to be the exception in that he would perform for both his club and country and act professionally to get the job done. Now he's just like the rest of them" mean?
Don't get me wrong - I'm not questioning it because I'm concerned about it hurting Rooney's feelings, or damaging his reputation (he's paid 120 grand a week to kick a f***ing ball around for Christ's sake), but because all it does - ALL it does - is f*** the country off even more when they are supposed to want the fans supporting the team.
No-one comes out of that with any credit except Barry. The only one who remotely did a job tonight. It was by far the worst performance I've ever seen from an England side - as inept (considering the alleged level these players are at and paucity of quality in the opposition) as some of the Charlton performances of the Dowie/Reed/Pardew era.
Still - like I said the other day - at least most of you only have one lot of underperforming, underachieving c***s to get sickened by - being half-dayglo I have had to sit through both Spanish and English torture every four years for as long as I can remember. Can see that continuing again this year.
Overpaid, whinging, classless, thick primadonna c***s the lot of them.
And where is the plan B? Why didn't he learn from the recent friendlies where England were crap in both first halves, changes were made at half time and had an impact. I know that you get unlimited subs in the friendlies but managers with balls like Mourinho would not hesitate to bring on three half time substitutes.
Rooney would never have stayed on the pitch for 90 minutes if he had performed like that for Sir Alec. And Heskey is a reserve in a mid-table EPL side FFS.
There's nothing different in the rest of the squad apart from, maybe, Joe Cole so can we expect anything different on Wednesday? I bloody hope so, especially as I fly into London on the morning of that game, but I fully expect to see an unchanged system.
Bring on Bournemouth I say.
to next stage??? You can at least be happy for one thing .... France are worse off : their game was even worse than England, most of
them don't sing their anthelm (either because they don't know the lyrics or their loyalties lie elsewhere), nobody believes they can go
further and the big headlines today is what Le Sulk said to Domenech at half time : "va te faire enc*** ", which is a harder version of f**off.
Most of the french team sung their national anthem as did all but one of ours. It means nothing.
If you are looking for a team whose loyalaties lie elsewhere then try Algeria. Many played for France at youth level.
The blame is all down to ITV. Simples.
We have to win on Wednesday, so the team should be IMO :-
JAMES
JOHNSON TERRY UPSON A COLE
LENNON GERRARD BARRY J COLE
DEFOE CROUCH
That team surely will get goals. Upson must play before Dawson as he was in the original squad, although I don't rate him & would probably go with Dawson myself.
Lennon or SWP - little difference IMO. J Cole in for Lampard as Lampard never produces for England particularly with Gerrard in the team.
Gerrard should have a free role more in the middle, with J Cole on the left and Barry sitting back. J Cole generally plays well for England.
Crouch & Defoe are more likely to score than an off form / injured Rooney & Heskey who will never get you goals.
I couldn't understand the substitutions last night. It was obvious very early on we were struggling & I think J Cole should have come on 10 mins into the second half in place of Lampard & Gerrard should have moved to the middle.
I would also have brought on either Defoe for Rooney or Crouch for Heskey to begin with & if we still hadn't scored I would have made the other substitution, with 15 mins to go.
I'm quite confident we would have won, if he had done so.
I rate Capello & can't see what the problem is other than the usual Gerrard & Lampard don't play well together & Rooney was abysmal for whatever reason. If he had sorted that out then I'd like to think the rest would have fallen into place.
If he does the above I think we will win well on Wednesday (famous last words).
There's not one algerian player whose loyalty can be questioned. No way. France is practically their enemy.
Am surprised no one mentioned the crap behaviour of the algerian fans whistling every time their players were
not in possession. But then, you have the same elsewhere, in Turkey, in Greece and even in Spain.
Hart - Terry, Carragher, Dawson - Johnson, Barry, Cole, Gerrard, Cole - Rooney, Defoe
Players who should be out there: Adam Johnson, Agbonlahor, Bent and Parker.
They have now repeated the exact same error with Capello who, if he has any honour (Sven didnt) should resign if England are knocked out at the group stage. Doubtless he'll carry on taking the money too.
Curbs for England!
Wrong to give him an extension, probably. I don't see how Sven was clueless though, 3 quarter finals is pretty decent. Was far better than McClaren and Keegan.
....and Capello at this rate!
I just think 3-5-2 could work as we have two attacking full backs and no decent wingers in the squad. It would also allow us to play Gerrard in the middle behind a front two. The only other option I can see is 4-5-1 with Rooney up on his own and staying up there no matter how frustrated he gets.
Brazil won the world cup with 3-5-2 in 2002.
What 3 would you have up front?
It doesn't matter what formation we play if we can't keep the ball. You cannot afford to give the ball away at International level.
I like Bent like we all do, but he wouldn't have done anything in that game. Team didn't keep the ball and create enough chances. None of the strikers looked good, but they need more of the ball.
Personally i would play crouch in the middle because hes difficult for defenses to deal with because hes a bizzare shape of a humanbeing. Defoe and Bent on the outside of him i am not sure it would have worked last night cos we were just naturally poo but it would look allot more threatening Rooney after last night doesn't deserve to wear the shirt well tbh none of them do least of all him.
While Darren might not have changed much hes top english goal scored in the top english division behind Rooney and you dont take him, questions need to be asked there i think too.
Bent isn't in the squad so how will that work?
Ok sorry i wil stop comenting now sorry.
Erm?