Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

National Team - The way forward?

The most sensible comment in the heat of post match analysis comes from a contributor to the BBC blog site

Spain have 750 fully qualified Grade A UEFA trained coaches compared to under 150 in England. But that’s not even the clincher. The most striking point is this, 150 Grade coaches in England all coach at professional or semi professional level to fully grown men. 640 of the Grade A coaches in Spain teach in SCHOOLS. They coach 5 year olds and up how to play the game. One touch football, pass and move, to actually think about the game when playing. Have a football brain and use it. 15 years ago the Spanish F.A and government changed the whole youth set up from 5 years of age up. 15 years later and they have a group of maybe 7 or 8 world class players in their national team! Sheer luck? Coincidence? I don’t think so.

Surely the FA taking this direction is worth a try. It was laughable today, and something has to be done (just like it has to be done in the world of tennis
«13456

Comments

  • good sensible analysis, it has to get right down to basics and grass roots, something that has always gone right over the head of the majority
  • Capello is a good manager with poor resources. Our teams disappointing display has nothing to do with the formation we selected, the players we brought on or off or the manager, it's to do with that fact that you can take any 11 English players and they will never win a World Cup. Why? Cause we don't have 11 English players good enough to do so, and we never will. Not until the way we train and bring up players in the UK changes. If the system were to change now we could maybe win the WC in 2030. If we continue to pursue a failing system in the way we are now we may never win the WC.
  • [cite]Posted By: JollyRobin[/cite]Capello is a good manager with poor resources. Our teams disappointing display has nothing to do with the formation we selected, the players we brought on or off or the manager, it's to do with that fact that you can take any 11 English players and they will never win a World Cup. Why? Cause we don't have 11 English players good enough to do so, and we never will. Not until the way we train and bring up players in the UK changes. If the system were to change now we could maybe win the WC in 2030. If we continue to pursue a failing system in the way we are now we may never win the WC.
    Bollocks. we have the resources, we just need to remind them that they are not so great.
    The pace of our back four, fuck me, I have seen Bolton put on a braver display.
    Drop some of the primadonnas. perahps then we can beat the USA.
  • Need to stop 10 year olds playing 11-a-side on full size adult pitches with adult goals. Small pitches with more touches on the ball, the biggest, strongest and quickest players will have to learn to think more. They'll have to learn to find and create space, control and pass the ball well and keep possession. The better athletes and players with the right characters will naturally come through.

    It's not that the current players can't control and pass the ball, there's just no one that level above, with that little bit extra. They're good (in a world scale), but none are the very best in the world or quite close to it.
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: JollyRobin[/cite]Capello is a good manager with poor resources. Our teams disappointing display has nothing to do with the formation we selected, the players we brought on or off or the manager, it's to do with that fact that you can take any 11 English players and they will never win a World Cup. Why? Cause we don't have 11 English players good enough to do so, and we never will. Not until the way we train and bring up players in the UK changes. If the system were to change now we could maybe win the WC in 2030. If we continue to pursue a failing system in the way we are now we may never win the WC.[/quote]

    Capello is a good manager but he has made a lot of mistakes in this tournament through intransigence and being stubborn. However, as a manager who has never been a manager of a team in a tournament the question is will he learn from this and can he take this experience and build on it, can the FA afford to push him given that they have re negotiated his contract to remove the break clause,whois there that couldtake over from him.

    As for the team they were poor and lacked cohesion and the worry is that if you look beyond them who is there that will take over from this generation and if these are the golden generation what are the next group coming through?
  • [cite]Posted By: Robbo on the wing[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: JollyRobin[/cite]Capello is a good manager with poor resources. Our teams disappointing display has nothing to do with the formation we selected, the players we brought on or off or the manager, it's to do with that fact that you can take any 11 English players and they will never win a World Cup. Why? Cause we don't have 11 English players good enough to do so, and we never will. Not until the way we train and bring up players in the UK changes. If the system were to change now we could maybe win the WC in 2030. If we continue to pursue a failing system in the way we are now we may never win the WC.
    Bollocks. we have the resources, we just need to remind them that they are not so great.
    The pace of our back four, fuck me, I have seen Bolton put on a braver display.
    Drop some of the primadonnas. perahps then we can beat the USA.

    Yer, everything is fine, and the fact we haven't come close to winning in a World Cup in 40 years has everything to do with 'players who have no passion' and nothing to do with the fact that the system in which we develop our young players.
  • so much dosh gets pumped into the prem, its obscene. Lower leagues see none of it or very little, cos it all gets
    pumped into foreign talent , or not so talented.
    The existing English players at prem clubs are getting fewer by the year, and if it was'nt for cts like andy gray bigging them up on sky, they really are not that great.
  • The reason why english players are becoming fewer is because they are mostly shit. Blame the arsehole suites in the FA for five decades of negligence at the gassroots. Trevor Brooking has been screaming for years about the problems at grassroots bu these pompous pricks do not listen. It is a cultural problem in this country. The busibodies rule and this is the result. Tennis is also like it/ Cricket and Rugby has learn't the lessons but it took years.
  • Some very good points have been made here. SSN ran a story a while ago about the amount of players moving away from 11 to 5 a side, for me that is a positive thing. The most attractive sides at this world cup are those that have grown up playing the smaller side version of the game i.e. futsal. It promotes first touch, movement and vision. The sooner we as a culture embrace those qualities the better and the quicker our domestic players will improve.

    For me at the moment this group of players are just not good enough however that result today shouldn't have happened. I know a lot of the press will try and put it down to the manager as some of these players seem untouchable when it comes to criticism and while he should take some of the blame the big players did not perform (again) and the basic stuff was ignored, for me that is not the manager's fault but the players and they have to be big enough to take the blame.
  • The fact that Arsenal,a top four English side,did not have one single representitive in the english squad is,in my opinion,a disgrace and tells it's own story.
  • Sponsored links:


  • [cite]Posted By: carly burn[/cite]The fact that Arsenal,a top four English side,did not have one single representitive in the english squad is,in my opinion,a disgrace and tells it's own story.

    The question may be how many Arsenal players in the England squad, the answer is how many English players in the Arsenal team.
  • [cite]Posted By: guinnessaddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: carly burn[/cite]The fact that Arsenal,a top four English side,did not have one single representitive in the english squad is,in my opinion,a disgrace and tells it's own story.

    The question may be how many Arsenal players in the England squad, the answer is how many English players in the Arsenal team.

    Give the man a dime bar!

    And another thing.Have a look at the Argie v Mex game tonight and notice how many players can use BOTH feet.I've said it before ,it opens so much more of the game up to a player.

    If i was on 90 grand a week to play the beautiful game every day of my working life then i think i'd have the decency to learn to use my other bloody foot.
    Lazy cnuts!
  • SKY SKY SKY SKY, you all love them they have fucked our football up for the past 20 years.all the league teams are concerned about is where they finish in the table. The big 4 dont give a sbhite about England only the champions league.Apart from this season when did a german team figure in the latter stages of this competition.Let the greedy fucjkers get on with the xhampions leage and let the rest of us get on with compiling a national team.FOR THE RECORD GLEN JOHNSON YOU ARE A SAD EXCUSE FOR A PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER.Their 3rd goal was so swindon awa y take the foul and get on with it you twat. Anyway we are nailed on to get 2018 after that referreing decision so happy days,
  • I completley agree with the posts above, re - focusing more on the development of real football skills, I also think we cannot keep on sacking managers everytime we are shown to be simply not skilful enough. We do need to stick to a manager over a decent period of time and for this not to be dependant on how far we get in tournaments.
  • Our game needs root and branch reform. Its one thing not being able to play like Spain/Brazil but quite another to not be able to play like Holland/Germany (who have a similar climate, mentality etc to us). I am in agreement with JR, Sco (who can not be 22) and Col3, it needs to start at the very earliest level and Floyd has provided the damning stats of the coaches (or lack of them) in the UK. Can't be arsed to look up the stats but I think both Spain and Germany have thousands more qualified coaches than us, and Spain does not recognise lower level qualifications like we do.
  • [cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]The most sensible comment in the heat of post match analysis comes from a contributor to the BBC blog site

    Spain have 750 fully qualified Grade A UEFA trained coaches compared to under 150 in England. But that’s not even the clincher. The most striking point is this, 150 Grade coaches in England all coach at professional or semi professional level to fully grown men. 640 of the Grade A coaches in Spain teach in SCHOOLS. They coach 5 year olds and up how to play the game. One touch football, pass and move, to actually think about the game when playing. Have a football brain and use it. 15 years ago the Spanish F.A and government changed the whole youth set up from 5 years of age up. 15 years later and they have a group of maybe 7 or 8 world class players in their national team! Sheer luck? Coincidence? I don’t think so.

    Surely the FA taking this direction is worth a try. It was laughable today, and something has to be done (just like it has to be done in the world of tennis

    We could have as many coaches as you want but if they're just going to keep asking kids to play on full size pitches and hoofing the ball up the pitch it won't change. We need to learn from other countries and get more foreign coaches running our game at a lower level because we clearly haven't got a clue. We need to reduce competetions at under 12 level and place more emphasis on keeping the ball, dribbling, flair, imagination, attacking in numbers, controlling the tempo, movement on and off the ball, judgement etc. NOT heading, long passing, slide tackles etc.

    We should also clamp down on allowing anyone off the street running kids teams if they are not willing to take the relevant coaching courses. The FA should also be funding local councils, counties and districts to provide them with coaches or even borrowing players from local clubs for a few hours a week.

    There's so much wrong with our footballing culture and it could take 30 years before we begin to see results - assuming we are willing to change our ways.
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]The most sensible comment in the heat of post match analysis comes from a contributor to the BBC blog site

    Spain have 750 fully qualified Grade A UEFA trained coaches compared to under 150 in England. But that’s not even the clincher. The most striking point is this, 150 Grade coaches in England all coach at professional or semi professional level to fully grown men. 640 of the Grade A coaches in Spain teach in SCHOOLS. They coach 5 year olds and up how to play the game. One touch football, pass and move, to actually think about the game when playing. Have a football brain and use it. 15 years ago the Spanish F.A and government changed the whole youth set up from 5 years of age up. 15 years later and they have a group of maybe 7 or 8 world class players in their national team! Sheer luck? Coincidence? I don’t think so.

    Surely the FA taking this direction is worth a try. It was laughable today, and something has to be done (just like it has to be done in the world of tennis[/quote]

    We could have as many coaches as you want but if they're just going to keep asking kids to play on full size pitches and hoofing the ball up the pitch it won't change. We need to learn from other countries and get more foreign coaches running our game at a lower level because we clearly haven't got a clue. We need to reduce competetions at under 12 level and place more emphasis on keeping the ball, dribbling, flair, imagination, attacking in numbers, controlling the tempo, movement on and off the ball, judgement etc. NOT heading, long passing, slide tackles etc.

    We should also clamp down on allowing anyone off the street running kids teams if they are not willing to take the relevant coaching courses. The FA should also be funding local councils, counties and districts to provide them with coaches or even borrowing players from local clubs for a few hours a week.

    There's so much wrong with our footballing culture and it could take 30 years before we begin to see results - assuming we are willing to change our ways.[/quote]

    so we reduce 11 a side by a year, for fuck sake until under 11 last year of primary school we play mini soccer wise up for christ sake and stop jumping on the pr band wagon.IT IS DOWN TO SKY WHAT HAS FUCKED OUR NATIONAL GAME
  • edited June 2010
    You have to say that the inception of the prem league must have something to do with our countries success, however on the flip side look at countries that do well, but have leagues that hardly any of their representatives play in e.g. Brazil, Argentina, Netherlands even Portugal to an extent. IMHO it has more to do with the grassroots than foreign players playing the prem league.
  • The points about coaching at school and youth level are spot on, but that isn't the entire answer. You have to coach teamwork and develop a team ethic. Too often England lost possession and didn't work hard as a unit to win it back. Again Rooney went charging around the pitch looking to win the ball, all very laudable, bit he's a forward, it's the job of the midfield to do that and then to get the ball to him.

    All four goals were preventable - our back four played like strangers who'd only just been introduced to each other and didn't bother to either mark attackers or simply went AWOL. The midfield was too static and upfront there was too little movement into the box, Germany played a very narrow game, concentrating too many players in central midfield - only late in the first half did Milner get enough ball out wide to stretch them. The German defence and keeper are nothing special, but how often were they put under consistent pressure? How often were balls played at angles for Defoe/Rooney to run onto and create something? The argument about teaching skills at youth level is fine, but pointless unless you are going to develop a cohesive team ethic and play to a set of tactics and a strategy that identies weaknesses in opponents and plays to your strengths and then you have to have a set of players with some idea of how they are going to win.

    England today were very naive in their strategy and its implementation.

    From here we do need to focus on youth coaching, but that isn't going to win us the next European Championship or World Cup. Perhaps it's time to get players in who might not be starts, but will graft for the team. Germany's best striker is Kevin Kuranyi, however although he's a good goal scorer he's not a team player, hence he's not in Germany's squad and hasn't been for two or more years and may never make another squad. That's another difference - in Germany the team are expected to defend and the team win or lose together - anyone not prepared to pull their weight is unlikely to get more than a few caps.
  • All down to grass root level , are coaching is piss poor compared to spain , brazil , argentina , germany etc . Stupid parents screaming at kids to get it up front for the big boy to score , get stuck in , win at all costs , instead of pass , pass , beat a player and pass and enjoy the game. We had a player who is technically gifted in Adam Johnson who is also left footer who would of gave us much needed balance on the left but we chose not to take him , DID THE GERMANS DO THAT ! NOPE they took Muller , ozeil , and others from their under 21 squad and have reaped the benifits.
  • Sponsored links:


  • Our national team's been rubbish since 1970 so don't see how can it be blamed on the Premiership.
  • Agree with you BFR.
  • [cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]The most sensible comment in the heat of post match analysis comes from a contributor to the BBC blog site

    Spain have 750 fully qualified Grade A UEFA trained coaches compared to under 150 in England. But that’s not even the clincher. The most striking point is this, 150 Grade coaches in England all coach at professional or semi professional level to fully grown men. 640 of the Grade A coaches in Spain teach in SCHOOLS. They coach 5 year olds and up how to play the game. One touch football, pass and move, to actually think about the game when playing. Have a football brain and use it. 15 years ago the Spanish F.A and government changed the whole youth set up from 5 years of age up. 15 years later and they have a group of maybe 7 or 8 world class players in their national team! Sheer luck? Coincidence? I don’t think so.

    Surely the FA taking this direction is worth a try. It was laughable today, and something has to be done (just like it has to be done in the world of tennis

    We could have as many coaches as you want but if they're just going to keep asking kids to play on full size pitches and hoofing the ball up the pitch it won't change. We need to learn from other countries and get more foreign coaches running our game at a lower level because we clearly haven't got a clue. We need to reduce competetions at under 12 level and place more emphasis on keeping the ball, dribbling, flair, imagination, attacking in numbers, controlling the tempo, movement on and off the ball, judgement etc. NOT heading, long passing, slide tackles etc.

    We should also clamp down on allowing anyone off the street running kids teams if they are not willing to take the relevant coaching courses. The FA should also be funding local councils, counties and districts to provide them with coaches or even borrowing players from local clubs for a few hours a week.

    There's so much wrong with our footballing culture and it could take 30 years before we begin to see results - assuming we are willing to change our ways.

    so we reduce 11 a side by a year, for fuck sake until under 11 last year of primary school we play mini soccer wise up for christ sake and stop jumping on the pr band wagon.IT IS DOWN TO SKY WHAT HAS FUCKED OUR NATIONAL GAME

    Thats what I said isn't it?

    As for Sky ruining our game? Don't be so naive. Sky aren't the ones making our clubs buy foreign players instead of giving English players a chance . They also aren't responsible for big clubs bulk buying every half decent young English player and leaving them in their reserves teams, never to be seen again. I haven't seen Murdoch down any local parks coaching our kids either.
  • The decision to leave Theo Walcott behind looks even dafter now.

    Neither Lennon nor SWP looked the part as wingers and eventually Milner had to come over from the left wing to play wide right.
  • [cite]Posted By: LawrieAbrahams[/cite]Our national team's been rubbish since 1970 so don't see how can it be blamed on the Premiership.

    I agree to some extent but we have made quarters/semis in the past.Now we just manage to scrape past the group stage.stuck in reverse.
  • That wasn't all down to the manager to many big stars didn't play how they do for their club sides. Having said tha i didn't see one player in the 4 games busting a gut for their manager. We have had worse players than this in our team playing for other managers and they try harder for him. Is it a language barrier thing? I dont know but lets face it he cant have a laugh with the lads can he. I know it aint all about having a laugh but i bet Harry redknapp would have gotten more out of that squad. For me the way forward is to get 30 of the best players in this country under 21 and make that your squad and build them into a unit. Let them play all the competitions from now on, the euro's the olympics then when the world cup comes round next 7 would have gone by the wayside and you'll be left with something that could compete for the world cup
  • Walcott ,A johnson are too inexprienced according to are coaching staff. Lol
  • From here England need to develop a club style ethos, assuming three keepers - with Joe Hart being the preferred starter we need to find two players for each position and unless injured stick with them. Develop a core team with players like Theo Walcott/Adam Johnson and coach them to play a style that suits the way they play.

    The current England team have some great players but as soon as you ask them to play to a style that they aren't used to playing in for their clubs they seem to lose interest and look clueless.
  • [cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]For me the way forward is to get 30 of the best players in this country under 21 and make that your squad and build them into a unit. Let them play all the competitions from now on, the euro's the olympics then when the world cup comes round next 7 would have gone by the wayside and you'll be left with something that could compete for the world cup

    Totally agree and think this should be the way forward now. The older lot have had their chance and won't be around for the next World Cup so lets chuck a few decent U-21's into the mix and let them develop into a team. Germany have 9 of their U-21 squad from last summer at the World Cup, how many do we have? They beat us in the final, so our youngsters are far from useless. Another thing about giving younger players a chance is that they have no fear and play with more freedom.
  • [cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]From here England need to develop a club style ethos, assuming three keepers - with Joe Hart being the preferred starter we need to find two players for each position and unless injured stick with them. Develop a core team with players like Theo Walcott/Adam Johnson and coach them to play a style that suits the way they play.

    The current England team have some great players but as soon as you ask them to play to a style that they aren't used to playing in for their clubs they seem to lose interest and look clueless.

    For that to happen the national team need to play more games. Mexico played 8 games in 4 weeks in the lead up the this World Cup and look a decent unit for it and just lacked a bit of quality tonight.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!