Interesting article on the BBC web site (which annoyingly i can't find now) on the way football is run.
Apparently English football brings in £500M a year more than German football yet the Germans spend £20M a year more on youth coaching than the FA.
Our system really has to change, but whilst the FA are full of people that only care about money and personally have no knowledge or personal involvement with football it isn't going to happen. Also whilst stupid football fans put up with the situation and keep paying over the odds to watch football and SKY telly, then the FA have even less reason to change things.
[quote][cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Do you know what ? I now really couldn't give a feck. As long as Charlton survive and thrive that'll do for me.[/quote]
It's that sort of club over country attitude that has got the national team in the mess it is in.
Not a dig at you SHG as I suspect a lot of fans feel that way but fans can't have it both ways. You can't expect the clubs to think of the England team first when the majority of fans only really care about it when the world cup comes round.
[quote][cite]Posted By: DRAddick[/cite]Interesting article on the BBC web site (which annoyingly i can't find now) on the way football is run.
Apparently English football brings in £500M a year more than German football yet the Germans spend £20M a year more on youth coaching than the FA.
Our system really has to change, but whilst the FA are full of people that only care about money and personally have no knowledge or personal involvement with football it isn't going to happen. Also whilst stupid football fans put up with the situation and keep paying over the odds to watch football and SKY telly, then the FA have even less reason to change things.[/quote]
the problem is all encompassing FA, Sky and premier league. And the fans, most of us would rather success for our clubs than England given the choice, so will they accept a re distribution of funds, I doubt it and the clubs certainly won't after all they are businesses. When Sky and the Premier League came to fruition the control of football was handed to those with their own interests at heart and the y won't be the turkeys that vote for christmas. Does anyone think Sky are not pleased that England are out of the world cup of course they are now they can get people back onto sky one watching cricket and the forthcoming friendlies.
The genie is out of the bottle and there is no way he is going back in - sorry
Really interesting piece in The Times today about what went on inside the cmap throughout our World Cup campaign. Apparantly on the eve of naming his squad Capello was told Barry was not going to make it and if he did wouldn't be anywhere near full fitness, so who did he pencil in as a replacement? Scott Parker maybe?....Owen Hargreaves who had played 60 seconds of football all season. the only reason he didn;t take Hargreaves was because Fergie told explained the extent of the injury to him. Says it all for me.
They've also said Terry has zero support from the players and one player said he's still bitter about being dropped as captain and hasn't stopped trying t get the captaincy back since. Also big problems between Terry and Gerrard.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]They've also said Terry has zero support from the players and one player said he's still bitter about being dropped as captain and hasn't stopped trying t get the captaincy back since. Also big problems between Terry and Gerrard.
Fecking arseholes should start behaving like men not spoilt children! They were playing for their country - something millions can only dream of - they should've put the petty squabbles behind them and got on with the job in hand.
When we had youngsters coming into my old pub side we could only ever have three absolute tops because they were coming into a game that is completely different to youth football. We had to have less skillfull players who were prepared to stick up for them and make sure whoever was trying to kick them got kicked a lot harder by cloggers like me (I can millions of keep ups but probably had the football at my feet a maximum of five seconds constant in my time playing mens football).
That put loads of quality young footballers off and the same thing happens at the highest level in England. If Arsenal have a midfield of Rosicky and Arshavin they will get booted off the field, and that hardly encourages a skillfull game now does it!
Gerrard and Parker are two players who have come through who are skillfull but have done so well because they both love smashing someone up in the air.
Xavi and Iniesta would last ten seconds in the field of brilliance we call the premiership before someone like Essien or Nicky Hunt wiped them out.
That isn't going to change any time soon.
I said years and years ago that English players going abroad would do them nothing but good. France won the title with nearly every member of their squad playing in countries other than France.
Nor many Brazillians play in Brazil, nor many Dutch players in Holland (I'm talking about the ones in the national sides)
[cite]Posted by northstandsteve[/cite] quote# 44
but what is wrong with this country is the bloody loopholes that man u aresnal & chelsea use in signing foreign kids at 15 to the detriment of our game such as fabregas , macheda etc. Jimmy just bocoz you are more intelligent than me and teach for living dont give you the right to belittle me .Because i could lose you in my sleep in my knowledge how to watch and play the game. .
how about playing fit players, playing well for their clubs??? Oh and don't bring on Heskey or play Heskey when looking for goals. Winter break would be good too. Can't clubs have a youth tournament or something for fans to follow over this period. Could drop League Cup as it's rubbish.
[cite]Posted By: DRAddick[/cite]Interesting article on the BBC web site (which annoyingly i can't find now) on the way football is run.
Apparently English football brings in £500M a year more than German football yet the Germans spend £20M a year more on youth coaching than the FA.
Our system really has to change, but whilst the FA are full of people that only care about money and personally have no knowledge or personal involvement with football it isn't going to happen. Also whilst stupid football fans put up with the situation and keep paying over the odds to watch football and SKY telly, then the FA have even less reason to change things.
the problem is all encompassing FA, Sky and premier league. And the fans, most of us would rather success for our clubs than England given the choice, so will they accept a re distribution of funds, I doubt it and the clubs certainly won't after all they are businesses. When Sky and the Premier League came to fruition the control of football was handed to those with their own interests at heart and the y won't be the turkeys that vote for christmas. Does anyone think Sky are not pleased that England are out of the world cup of course they are now they can get people back onto sky one watching cricket and the forthcoming friendlies.
The genie is out of the bottle and there is no way he is going back in - sorry
I agree, and Champions league can also be added to the mix. But i think success for a club like ours and most clubs is relative. Having periods of good and bad between leagues is normal.
When i first following football obviously you still had bigger clubs but there was more rotation of clubs and periods of success because clubs didn't have to worry as much about the short term. Teams could be built up using the youngsters and players you brought in and managers were generally given more time. Now everything is about the Premiership and teams will do anything to get and stay there and relegation can be and is disastrous. This means lots of foreign players often because English players are vastly over priced, defensive football and changing managers every ten minutes and not giving new/lower league managers a chance.
It also means that the big clubs despite all the money are in major debt staying where they are and trying to chase more money. That isn't good for anybody either.
If the money wasn't as big then this wouldn't be the case as much.
Would real football fans really care if the money went out of the game and we went back to the way things were before SKY? No ofcourse not, real fans would still be going to support there club as they always have and will.
Plus the culture of us public towards youth teams has to change away from the full games of hard and fast football win at all costs has to change. But again thats down to the FA to sort out and the people will follow. Having lots of well meaning parents or coaches with level 1 badges accounting for most of the early coaching of kids in this country is not benificial as their knowledge and skills aren't there. Ity'll take time but as proved by Spain and Germany it can be done.
I think it would help if people in this country educated themselves more about football. Henry's comment about laughing stock Hargreaves is so true. There was a thread on here about Villa comparing him with Rooney and Torres that illustrated the same thing. In my work there's a big sign proudly proclaiming that all world cup games will be screened in the coffee lounge - that stopped on Monday and they switched back to Sky news. Many pubs have taken the decorations down. There seems relatively little curiosity in looking at and understanding why other teams are consistently better.
I honestly reckon the average old granny in Italy has a better understanding of the game than the average bloke that I sit with at the Valley - or indeed the average "expert" paid by the media to inform us about the sport. There they have endless analysis and a text crammed daily broadsheet mostly about football. Spain's the same. In England the Sun ran two pages rating the German players' WAGS against our slags. You can blame coaches and foreigners taking our boys places (it just makes me laugh my arse of that some people believe Fabergas was taking the opportunity of some English lad - if there was an English lad within a mile of that standard, he'd have made it, seriously). If kids - and young players - grow up in an environment of blinding ignorance then they'll follow the same path.
One of my mates was saying that England should just pick a team of players from the Championship. Because they have the passion. The guy runs a team himself and he's not a stupid bloke, but it's that kind of sheer idiocy that seems to poison every aspect of the game in this country. Entering every championship believing there's a fair chance of winning it despite only having managed one fourth place away from these shores is a special form of mass delusion, but it keeps repeating itself time after time.
The "Pick a Bunch of Championship Players" argument is ridiculous in most ways but also has some logic in others.
What I mean by this is that you could arguably pick an effective England TEAM from the Championship by selecting an XI based on their ability to gel as a team and be properly balanced.
In recent times, arguably since Hoddle left, England had shoe-horned their best XI players onto the park rather than the actual best TEAM - witness the crazy Lampard/Gerrard nonsene and the inclusion of Barry rather than Parker.
Every team needs the right balance and how England can take the field without a left-sided player in midfield is simply ridiculous, Downing or Johnson should play there because it makes the team more effective not because they are in the best XI players.
The manager, whoever it is, MUST choose between Lampard and Gerrard, you can't have TWO attacking midfield players, it would be like playing two "sweeping" centre-halves or two "target-men" forwards, it just upsets the balance of the side totally.
The same goes for having an "attacking" full-back like Glen Johnson, if he can attack then great but his first job is to defend and the bloke's defending is so bad that it is frightening.
My England side going forward would be:
Hart
Richards - Terry - Jagielka - A. Cole
Lennon - Gerrard - Parker/Hargreaves - Johnson/Downing
Rooney - Crouch
There is nothing "wrong" with 4-4-2 as such, you can easily switch back to 4-5-1 if you need an extra man in the middle or even go 4-3-3 if you want more attacking thrust.
The problem with England's 4-4-2 was that Gerrard's persistent drifting in left huge spaces for the Germans to pour into - that's not even mentioning the huge gaps left by Lampard in the middle when he got caught in front of the ball.
Problem with that line-up Ormy is that you've shot yourself in the foot - one of your principle arguments is that a defender's primary job is the ability to defend - and you've selected Richards, whose defending is even more comical than Johnson's ) However, since they're BOTH shit, it's a pretty difficult choice, I'll grant you.
I totally agree, btw - the primary aim of building a team is to get the best players for the team, in their correct positions. If Capello really had the bollocks necessary he'd say ta-ta to Lampard or Gerrard right now (I'd get rid of Lampard because he doesn't give as much to the team as Gerrard does)
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]Problem with that line-up Ormy is that you've shot yourself in the foot - one of your principle arguments is that a defender's primary job is the ability to defend - and you've selected Richards, whose defending is even more comical than Johnson's ) However, since they're BOTH shit, it's a pretty difficult choice, I'll grant you.
I totally agree, btw - the primary aim of building a team is to get the best players for the team, in their correct positions. If Capello really had the bollocks necessary he'd say ta-ta to Lampard or Gerrard right now (I'd get rid of Lampard because he doesn't give as much to the team as Gerrard does)
Hmmm, yes, Richards is crap but Johnson makes him look like a world-class defender.
At least Richards is a big lump who might be able to also play centre-half, Johnson is a truly shocking defender - as witnessed by Podolski's goal when Johnson wasn't within shouting distance of getting a block in.
I can't believe we can't even find a capable right-back.....
For people who think the "formation" is crucial, just think of this: Brazil, Spain, Argentina, Germany could all play 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 and still look class because they have good footballers who are adaptable.
Our sole argument for 4-5-1 (or 4-3-2-1) seems to be that it gives us extra men behind the ball for when we give it away!!!
I'd agree with a lot of what you say Ormi particularly Parker, but there's an element of not-yet-failed. Almost all of the going forward teams that I've seen have Hart in. Had it not been for that game with the states everyone knows (deep down at least) that about half of them would have had Green. There's a bit of that about Richards, although I think he's a better player than GlenJo, who was over-exposed too young.
The problem with that line up with attacking wide men is - I'd imagine - that a decent side like Germany would have made (even more) hay down the flanks with Ozil and Muller. Totally agree on playing Gerrard where in the middle and having him properly supported by Parker.
One thing few people have picked up on is for the third (killer) goal where he booted a free kick straight into the wall and stood whining at the ref (presumably looking for a ball-to-hand) while Muller trotted past him. Never the speediest Frank got after him, but was never in the race and the German got an easy tap in. I thought he'd have been slaughtered, but the BBC didn't talk about it so it seems to have gone under the radar.
[cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]there's an element of not-yet-failed.
That is a key point. We dismiss the old lot and then overpraise the new until then they fail in their turn and we start the process again.
Neville makes good points.
On Johnson, I don't think he is a great defender but on their second goal it wasn't totally down to him. He had to come across to cover the gaps left by the others and the Germans exploited the gap well.
[cite]Posted By: carly burn[/cite]I've since watched bits of the last four games back.Capello,to my suprise,showed all the tactical nous of a tin bath.
He has to go.
How could you bear to watch that back? You must be some kind of masochist.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]The "Pick a Bunch of Championship Players" argument is ridiculous in most ways but also has some logic in others.
What I mean by this is that you could arguably pick an effective England TEAM from the Championship by selecting an XI based on their ability to gel as a team and be properly balanced.
Interestingly, a 'bunch of championship players' is pretty much what a decent percentage of the international sides equate to, and in the case of New Zealand, not even that. Yet most sides seem to put up a good showing so I agree with you the set up of the team is hugely important.
A lot has been made of the fact the England players aren't good enough, and no they're not not enough to win the world cup, but they are good enough to go further than they did, just like France were. The likes of Malouda, Anelka, Ribery and Evra are 'good enough' to reach the latter stages, but the French fell short in other areas such as organisation and team spirit.
Success in tournament football goes beyond having the best players, and failure isn't always down to your players being inferior individually. I've heard that Klose, Podolski and Muller have been pony in the Bundesliga this season (and watching them you'd be hard pressed to say any of them display any obvious brilliance) but they fit together seamlessly thanks to the German focus on building a national team. It's also not just about producing technical footballers or Holland would have done far better than they have done at major tournaments.
I agree with most of the sentiments about the need to improve English technique, but it's far from being the only reason, and I don't think we need to play like Brazil to start having success in tournaments. We could really do with unearthing at least one Ozil, but beyond that if we get some young players into the set up early and trained in a system, we might not be quite as far off competing as some may think. Technique may the long term ambition, but in the short term I think we should look to Italy and Germany for lessons, and maybe we can make ourselves effective, if not yet exciting.
[quote][cite]Posted By: LawrieAbrahams[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: carly burn[/cite]I've since watched bits of the last four games back.Capello,to my suprise,showed all the tactical nous of a tin bath. He has to go.[/quote]
How could you bear to watch that back? You must be some kind of masochist.[/quote] I watched the game at a mates house, but had sky plused it for a replay when I got home, that was the first thing i did when I got home delete it, before I tore my eyes out.
A couple of interesting articles. Hoddle talking about developing young players among a few other things (including a suggestion to split the Championship into two leagues). Martin Samuel talking about England's lack of intelligence on the pitch.
Joe Cole has admitted England "just weren't good enough" at the World Cup and suggested the philosophy of the team needs to change for international success to be possible.
"It is obvious that we lack the kind of qualities you need to be successful at international level," the midfielder said. "We don't keep the ball as well as other countries; that's not a secret.
"It wasn't just the Germany game. Over the course of the tournament we looked a long way behind the other top nations and when it came to the crunch, the best side won. People will talk about the decision not to allow Frank Lampard's goal, but it was plain and simple to see that we just weren't good enough.
"Almost every team I have played for – including England – always want to hit the front players as early as possible. You won't get away with that at international level. It's about technique, keeping control of the ball, passing and moving.
"We seem to abandon good technique because we are obsessed with getting the ball from back to front as quickly as possible. That doesn't work against top teams.
"No one pulls the England shirt on with more pride than me but we've got to face up to the reality of it all. We're just not good enough.
"Maybe it's time to really look at how we're teaching kids to play. Maybe we're paying the price for having the best league in the world."
Joe Cole can see one of the main problems. Can't see much changing in the next few years, same problems will be talked about in 2, 4 and 6 years time.
We have been saying it since the Dutch gave the world a passing lesson in te 1970's And still these dunderheads run the game we love so very very badly We really are mugs
Also read about Howard Wilkinson's report, "Charter of Quality", about coaching concentrating on technique, how moving away from a 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3 type formation could be the future among other things. That was back in 1997 and the FA did nothing about it.
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]We have been saying it since the Dutch gave the world a passing lesson in te won sod all in the 1970's
And still these dunderheads run the game we love so very very badly
We really are mugs
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]We have been saying it since the Dutch[strike]gave the world a passing lesson in te[/strike]won sod all in the1970's
And still these dunderheads run the game we love so very very badly
We really are mugs
Won 4 European cups in a row, a couple of UEFA cups and reached two World Cup finals in the 1970s.
And in a country with half the population of England.
Personally I don't think slavishly copying what the Dutch or the Germans do is the why forward.
Learn from them, take some of their ideas and blend them with what is good with our football (and there are some good things) just as the Ajax coaches did in the 60s.
They game to England and watch training sessions at Spurs. They adapted those techniques and developed them in Total Football.
Comments
The future.
Apparently English football brings in £500M a year more than German football yet the Germans spend £20M a year more on youth coaching than the FA.
Our system really has to change, but whilst the FA are full of people that only care about money and personally have no knowledge or personal involvement with football it isn't going to happen. Also whilst stupid football fans put up with the situation and keep paying over the odds to watch football and SKY telly, then the FA have even less reason to change things.
It's that sort of club over country attitude that has got the national team in the mess it is in.
Not a dig at you SHG as I suspect a lot of fans feel that way but fans can't have it both ways. You can't expect the clubs to think of the England team first when the majority of fans only really care about it when the world cup comes round.
Apparently English football brings in £500M a year more than German football yet the Germans spend £20M a year more on youth coaching than the FA.
Our system really has to change, but whilst the FA are full of people that only care about money and personally have no knowledge or personal involvement with football it isn't going to happen. Also whilst stupid football fans put up with the situation and keep paying over the odds to watch football and SKY telly, then the FA have even less reason to change things.[/quote]
the problem is all encompassing FA, Sky and premier league. And the fans, most of us would rather success for our clubs than England given the choice, so will they accept a re distribution of funds, I doubt it and the clubs certainly won't after all they are businesses. When Sky and the Premier League came to fruition the control of football was handed to those with their own interests at heart and the y won't be the turkeys that vote for christmas. Does anyone think Sky are not pleased that England are out of the world cup of course they are now they can get people back onto sky one watching cricket and the forthcoming friendlies.
The genie is out of the bottle and there is no way he is going back in - sorry
They've also said Terry has zero support from the players and one player said he's still bitter about being dropped as captain and hasn't stopped trying t get the captaincy back since. Also big problems between Terry and Gerrard.
Fecking arseholes should start behaving like men not spoilt children! They were playing for their country - something millions can only dream of - they should've put the petty squabbles behind them and got on with the job in hand.
That put loads of quality young footballers off and the same thing happens at the highest level in England. If Arsenal have a midfield of Rosicky and Arshavin they will get booted off the field, and that hardly encourages a skillfull game now does it!
Gerrard and Parker are two players who have come through who are skillfull but have done so well because they both love smashing someone up in the air.
Xavi and Iniesta would last ten seconds in the field of brilliance we call the premiership before someone like Essien or Nicky Hunt wiped them out.
That isn't going to change any time soon.
I said years and years ago that English players going abroad would do them nothing but good. France won the title with nearly every member of their squad playing in countries other than France.
Nor many Brazillians play in Brazil, nor many Dutch players in Holland (I'm talking about the ones in the national sides)
oooooooooooh, I'll go and get my handbag
I agree, and Champions league can also be added to the mix. But i think success for a club like ours and most clubs is relative. Having periods of good and bad between leagues is normal.
When i first following football obviously you still had bigger clubs but there was more rotation of clubs and periods of success because clubs didn't have to worry as much about the short term. Teams could be built up using the youngsters and players you brought in and managers were generally given more time. Now everything is about the Premiership and teams will do anything to get and stay there and relegation can be and is disastrous. This means lots of foreign players often because English players are vastly over priced, defensive football and changing managers every ten minutes and not giving new/lower league managers a chance.
It also means that the big clubs despite all the money are in major debt staying where they are and trying to chase more money. That isn't good for anybody either.
If the money wasn't as big then this wouldn't be the case as much.
Would real football fans really care if the money went out of the game and we went back to the way things were before SKY? No ofcourse not, real fans would still be going to support there club as they always have and will.
Plus the culture of us public towards youth teams has to change away from the full games of hard and fast football win at all costs has to change. But again thats down to the FA to sort out and the people will follow. Having lots of well meaning parents or coaches with level 1 badges accounting for most of the early coaching of kids in this country is not benificial as their knowledge and skills aren't there. Ity'll take time but as proved by Spain and Germany it can be done.
I honestly reckon the average old granny in Italy has a better understanding of the game than the average bloke that I sit with at the Valley - or indeed the average "expert" paid by the media to inform us about the sport. There they have endless analysis and a text crammed daily broadsheet mostly about football. Spain's the same. In England the Sun ran two pages rating the German players' WAGS against our slags. You can blame coaches and foreigners taking our boys places (it just makes me laugh my arse of that some people believe Fabergas was taking the opportunity of some English lad - if there was an English lad within a mile of that standard, he'd have made it, seriously). If kids - and young players - grow up in an environment of blinding ignorance then they'll follow the same path.
One of my mates was saying that England should just pick a team of players from the Championship. Because they have the passion. The guy runs a team himself and he's not a stupid bloke, but it's that kind of sheer idiocy that seems to poison every aspect of the game in this country. Entering every championship believing there's a fair chance of winning it despite only having managed one fourth place away from these shores is a special form of mass delusion, but it keeps repeating itself time after time.
What I mean by this is that you could arguably pick an effective England TEAM from the Championship by selecting an XI based on their ability to gel as a team and be properly balanced.
In recent times, arguably since Hoddle left, England had shoe-horned their best XI players onto the park rather than the actual best TEAM - witness the crazy Lampard/Gerrard nonsene and the inclusion of Barry rather than Parker.
Every team needs the right balance and how England can take the field without a left-sided player in midfield is simply ridiculous, Downing or Johnson should play there because it makes the team more effective not because they are in the best XI players.
The manager, whoever it is, MUST choose between Lampard and Gerrard, you can't have TWO attacking midfield players, it would be like playing two "sweeping" centre-halves or two "target-men" forwards, it just upsets the balance of the side totally.
The same goes for having an "attacking" full-back like Glen Johnson, if he can attack then great but his first job is to defend and the bloke's defending is so bad that it is frightening.
My England side going forward would be:
Hart
Richards - Terry - Jagielka - A. Cole
Lennon - Gerrard - Parker/Hargreaves - Johnson/Downing
Rooney - Crouch
There is nothing "wrong" with 4-4-2 as such, you can easily switch back to 4-5-1 if you need an extra man in the middle or even go 4-3-3 if you want more attacking thrust.
The problem with England's 4-4-2 was that Gerrard's persistent drifting in left huge spaces for the Germans to pour into - that's not even mentioning the huge gaps left by Lampard in the middle when he got caught in front of the ball.
I totally agree, btw - the primary aim of building a team is to get the best players for the team, in their correct positions. If Capello really had the bollocks necessary he'd say ta-ta to Lampard or Gerrard right now (I'd get rid of Lampard because he doesn't give as much to the team as Gerrard does)
Hmmm, yes, Richards is crap but Johnson makes him look like a world-class defender.
At least Richards is a big lump who might be able to also play centre-half, Johnson is a truly shocking defender - as witnessed by Podolski's goal when Johnson wasn't within shouting distance of getting a block in.
I can't believe we can't even find a capable right-back.....
For people who think the "formation" is crucial, just think of this: Brazil, Spain, Argentina, Germany could all play 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 and still look class because they have good footballers who are adaptable.
Our sole argument for 4-5-1 (or 4-3-2-1) seems to be that it gives us extra men behind the ball for when we give it away!!!
The problem with that line up with attacking wide men is - I'd imagine - that a decent side like Germany would have made (even more) hay down the flanks with Ozil and Muller. Totally agree on playing Gerrard where in the middle and having him properly supported by Parker.
One thing few people have picked up on is for the third (killer) goal where he booted a free kick straight into the wall and stood whining at the ref (presumably looking for a ball-to-hand) while Muller trotted past him. Never the speediest Frank got after him, but was never in the race and the German got an easy tap in. I thought he'd have been slaughtered, but the BBC didn't talk about it so it seems to have gone under the radar.
That is a key point. We dismiss the old lot and then overpraise the new until then they fail in their turn and we start the process again.
Neville makes good points.
On Johnson, I don't think he is a great defender but on their second goal it wasn't totally down to him. He had to come across to cover the gaps left by the others and the Germans exploited the gap well.
He has to go.
How could you bear to watch that back? You must be some kind of masochist.
Interestingly, a 'bunch of championship players' is pretty much what a decent percentage of the international sides equate to, and in the case of New Zealand, not even that. Yet most sides seem to put up a good showing so I agree with you the set up of the team is hugely important.
A lot has been made of the fact the England players aren't good enough, and no they're not not enough to win the world cup, but they are good enough to go further than they did, just like France were. The likes of Malouda, Anelka, Ribery and Evra are 'good enough' to reach the latter stages, but the French fell short in other areas such as organisation and team spirit.
Success in tournament football goes beyond having the best players, and failure isn't always down to your players being inferior individually. I've heard that Klose, Podolski and Muller have been pony in the Bundesliga this season (and watching them you'd be hard pressed to say any of them display any obvious brilliance) but they fit together seamlessly thanks to the German focus on building a national team. It's also not just about producing technical footballers or Holland would have done far better than they have done at major tournaments.
I agree with most of the sentiments about the need to improve English technique, but it's far from being the only reason, and I don't think we need to play like Brazil to start having success in tournaments. We could really do with unearthing at least one Ozil, but beyond that if we get some young players into the set up early and trained in a system, we might not be quite as far off competing as some may think. Technique may the long term ambition, but in the short term I think we should look to Italy and Germany for lessons, and maybe we can make ourselves effective, if not yet exciting.
He has to go.[/quote]
How could you bear to watch that back? You must be some kind of masochist.[/quote]
I watched the game at a mates house, but had sky plused it for a replay when I got home, that was the first thing i did when I got home delete it, before I tore my eyes out.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1290667/MARTIN-SAMUEL-If-England-brain-dangerous.html
A couple of interesting articles. Hoddle talking about developing young players among a few other things (including a suggestion to split the Championship into two leagues). Martin Samuel talking about England's lack of intelligence on the pitch.
Joe Cole can see one of the main problems. Can't see much changing in the next few years, same problems will be talked about in 2, 4 and 6 years time.
And still these dunderheads run the game we love so very very badly
We really are mugs
Won 4 European cups in a row, a couple of UEFA cups and reached two World Cup finals in the 1970s.
And in a country with half the population of England.
Personally I don't think slavishly copying what the Dutch or the Germans do is the why forward.
Learn from them, take some of their ideas and blend them with what is good with our football (and there are some good things) just as the Ajax coaches did in the 60s.
They game to England and watch training sessions at Spurs. They adapted those techniques and developed them in Total Football.