This was one of the worst disasters at a Football Staduim in this country but am I alone in thinking that it was an accident. Sure the policing was inept, there was little if no crowd control and the penning in of fans, basically treating them like animals ultimately led to 96 people being crushed to death. But I don't believe that anyone got up that day with the intention to make this thing happen, those involved have to live with the results of that day so I personally see no point in yet another witch hunt to try and pin blame.
The best legacy of Hillsborough is that it got rid of the railings that seperated the crowd from the pitch that was always a disaster waiting to happen. Sorry if this seems harsh I mean no disrespect I just can't see what is being looked for in another documentry/enquiry
Aren't the police dosuments to be released this week? I would have thought a docummentary would have made more sense to be made after that information has become public.
This was one of the worst disasters at a Football Staduim in this country but am I alone in thinking that it was an accident. Sure the policing was inept, there was little if no crowd control and the penning in of fans, basically treating them like animals ultimately led to 96 people being crushed to death. But I don't believe that anyone got up that day with the intention to make this thing happen, those involved have to live with the results of that day so I personally see no point in yet another witch hunt to try and pin blame.
The best legacy of Hillsborough is that it got rid of the railings that seperated the crowd from the pitch that was always a disaster waiting to happen. Sorry if this seems harsh I mean no disrespect I just can't see what is being looked for in another documentry/enquiry
Of course nobody got up that day intending for it to happen but a great tragedy did happen and lots of false accusations wee made for whatever reason. People should be interested in the truth.
The truth won't bring anyone back. I can't help but think that the cost of all the enquiries could have been better spent giving those that lost someone some help (not just financial).
I also worry that the continual chase for someone to blame is, ultimately, motivated by lawyers that believe "If there's blame, there's a claim!".
I watched the 1996 program a couple of months ago, and it was very interesting to use it to understand what actually happened that day, but it was made from a specific point of view and was probably biased for that reason. It covered the grief that some of the families suffered. It was very heart moving, but I have to say that having watched my wife recover emotionally from losing her 11 year old sister and then her 19 year old brother within three years of each other I think there is an argument that the pain is irrespective as to the reason for the loss. With this in mind I just don't see how focusing anger towards someone (that may or may nor have contributed to the outcome) can help.
I noted that there was a fuss when the club moved the image of the Hillsborough tragedy from the team badge to the back of the new shirts earlier in the summer. I know it was a terrible thing that happened, and I can't begin to imagine how terrible it must have been (I have some experience as I answered the phone at 2am when my father-in-law called to tell his daughter that her brother had died in a car accident) but there comes a point when one has to stop being angry, and stop looking for someone to punish.
I agree with daveaddick, it was a tragedy, the behaviour of the fans was probably not perfect, the decisions made by the police were not ideal but I just don't believe that those involved could have foreseen what unfolded, and they did the best they could under the circumstances. I have no comment about the reporting of The Sun and other papers after the event, but even if their claims that fans were stealing from the bodies of the dead were completely made up, it doesn't change the fact the disaster happened long before any of those events could have done. The anger about these things was probably driven from the grief, which came about, I believe, from a succession of, well intentioned, bad decisions.
Has anyone read the book 'Hilsborough The Truth'. It would appear from reading it, that there were lots of past warnings, both long before it happened and very shortly. You can't help but feel the authorities just assumed 'it will always be okay', but as we know, it wasnt.
I can't begin to judge whether those persuing justice/the truth are right or wrong in doing so, as I can't begin to imagine what they went through.
Not many things bring tears to my eyes, but reading accounts from those there and seeing the pics, never fails too, because as a match-going football fan you can relate.
In Moldova Fri night, there was a crush getting in, as they move 10k fans through one entrance. It was the worst one I've experienced and that sudden panic is horrible to feel, even though it was short lived and probably minor in realtion to most. A horrible way to go.
No one should go to a football game and not come home!!
But as has been said - those involved/possibly to blame, have to live with that for the rest of their lives - there can surely be no greater 'punishment' for an individual.
having watch a few documentaries, seen the "film" with Chris Ecclestone and having been to many football matches in the 80's I will say that there is blame on all sides:
1) with the FA as Liverpool fans should have had the other end 2) with Liverpool fans as many turned up drunk & without tickets (yes, it is true) 3) with the police for treating football fans as holigans and not as paying members of the publec (it sill happens today) 4) with football clubs for not updating facilities and having stadiums that were dangerous (fencing etc)
I worked the turnstiles at Charlton (Selhurst) and Millwall 86 to 89 - plenty of scum bags trying to intimidate a young lad into a free ticket and quite a few offering a few quid to jump the turnstiles.
Liverpool away at Millwall midweek in that period was the worst I came across. At least twice as many Liverpool in the end that actually paid.
The thing here is you cannot overlook people going to a football match and not coming back. Same as Bradford.
Blame doesn't bring anyone back, offer closure maybe, and if I lost a loved one that day I would not want to believe it was the fault of other football fans either. Nor would it make me feel any better being told it was the fault of a four metre high fence or the local constabulary.
having watch a few documentaries, seen the "film" with Chris Ecclestone and having been to many football matches in the 80's I will say that there is blame on all sides:
1) with the FA as Liverpool fans should have had the other end 2) with Liverpool fans as many turned up drunk & without tickets (yes, it is true) 3) with the police for treating football fans as holigans and not as paying members of the publec (it sill happens today) 4) with football clubs for not updating facilities and having stadiums that were dangerous (fencing etc)
No 2 - Unfortunatley and rightly or wrongly people turn up without tickets and drunk to lots of sporting (and music) events. Always have done, always will. Its part of the passion which drives football fans, that desire to be there. The England end in Moldova was overfull Fri night.
It is the job of the police to control a crowd. I think reason number two was not a significant one.
The police did not do their their homework and were sadly complacent. The whole police attitude was crowd control, rather than crowd safety.
Agree with all your other points though.
I don't blame any individuals but the WYP collectively and the whole footballing authority ethos and attitude to supporters back then.
Having just watched the documentary I have to say I feel a little cheated. I don't think I learned anything I didn't already know. Sure they had some different people comment on what we had all heard before, but there was nothing new.
The BBC coverage from the stadium provided vivd memories of watching it live. It really was a terrible tragedy.
As far as I know the poor people who died that day were all at the front of the terrace. I imagine they all arrived early and took up their chosen place.
Perhaps the several thousand people running onto the terrace behind them might have contributed. The police might have asked them to walk slowly but I imagine they didn't hear and just ran to get the best view they could. From personal experience I am not sure they all had tickets.
And no, I wasn't there and didn't see what happened.
having watch a few documentaries, seen the "film" with Chris Ecclestone and having been to many football matches in the 80's I will say that there is blame on all sides:
1) with the FA as Liverpool fans should have had the other end 2) with Liverpool fans as many turned up drunk & without tickets (yes, it is true) 3) with the police for treating football fans as holigans and not as paying members of the publec (it sill happens today) 4) with football clubs for not updating facilities and having stadiums that were dangerous (fencing etc)
No 2 - Unfortunatley and rightly or wrongly people turn up without tickets and drunk to lots of sporting (and music) events. Always have done, always will. Its part of the passion which drives football fans, that desire to be there. The England end in Moldova was overfull Fri night.
It is the job of the police to control a crowd. I think reason number two was not a significant one.
The police did not do their their homework and were sadly complacent. The whole police attitude was crowd control, rather than crowd safety.
Agree with all your other points though.
I don't blame any individuals but the WYP collectively and the whole footballing authority ethos and attitude to supporters back then.
I don't want to be pedantic, but Sheffield is the South Yorkshire Police.
But how were they supposed to know they were contributing to the crush that was killing their fellow fans? The police are responsible for controlling and the safety of the crowd. There were two half empty pens to the sides that fans should have been directed too, rather than the central ones.
Disaster had already happened at grounds in Britian and come close to happening before - there was an ignored precedent, which I know is easy to say in hindsight.
Just seen it on ITV1+1 and my opinion has not changed. South Yorkshire Police are are totally to blame for letting so many Liverpool Supporters without tickets into the areas behind the turnstile area of Leppings Lane, which resulted in a crush, which resulted in the exit gates being opened that led to the tragedy. Huge numbers of fans were always going to turn up without tickets and they can never be to blame. South Yorkshire Police failed to recognise this and failed to put in the messures they put in the year before.
Hang on a minute - so its the old bill's fault that a load of mickeys turned up without a ticket? Do me a favour. Yes, south yorks plod didn't act perfectly, but would it have happened if tons of scousers hadnt turn up without a ticket? Absolute tragedy but scousers need to look at their own before looking for someone else to blame.
Comments
The best legacy of Hillsborough is that it got rid of the railings that seperated the crowd from the pitch that was always a disaster waiting to happen. Sorry if this seems harsh I mean no disrespect I just can't see what is being looked for in another documentry/enquiry
This Alan Davies?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2127339/Alan-Davies-causes-outrage-criticism-Liverpool-dodging-Hillsborough-date.html
The BBC had a programme about Hillsborough last night.
I also worry that the continual chase for someone to blame is, ultimately, motivated by lawyers that believe "If there's blame, there's a claim!".
I watched the 1996 program a couple of months ago, and it was very interesting to use it to understand what actually happened that day, but it was made from a specific point of view and was probably biased for that reason. It covered the grief that some of the families suffered. It was very heart moving, but I have to say that having watched my wife recover emotionally from losing her 11 year old sister and then her 19 year old brother within three years of each other I think there is an argument that the pain is irrespective as to the reason for the loss. With this in mind I just don't see how focusing anger towards someone (that may or may nor have contributed to the outcome) can help.
I noted that there was a fuss when the club moved the image of the Hillsborough tragedy from the team badge to the back of the new shirts earlier in the summer. I know it was a terrible thing that happened, and I can't begin to imagine how terrible it must have been (I have some experience as I answered the phone at 2am when my father-in-law called to tell his daughter that her brother had died in a car accident) but there comes a point when one has to stop being angry, and stop looking for someone to punish.
I agree with daveaddick, it was a tragedy, the behaviour of the fans was probably not perfect, the decisions made by the police were not ideal but I just don't believe that those involved could have foreseen what unfolded, and they did the best they could under the circumstances. I have no comment about the reporting of The Sun and other papers after the event, but even if their claims that fans were stealing from the bodies of the dead were completely made up, it doesn't change the fact the disaster happened long before any of those events could have done. The anger about these things was probably driven from the grief, which came about, I believe, from a succession of, well intentioned, bad decisions.
It would appear from reading it, that there were lots of past warnings, both long before it happened and very shortly.
You can't help but feel the authorities just assumed 'it will always be okay', but as we know, it wasnt.
I can't begin to judge whether those persuing justice/the truth are right or wrong in doing so, as I can't begin to imagine what they went through.
Not many things bring tears to my eyes, but reading accounts from those there and seeing the pics, never fails too, because as a match-going football fan you can relate.
In Moldova Fri night, there was a crush getting in, as they move 10k fans through one entrance. It was the worst one I've experienced and that sudden panic is horrible to feel, even though it was short lived and probably minor in realtion to most. A horrible way to go.
No one should go to a football game and not come home!!
1) with the FA as Liverpool fans should have had the other end
2) with Liverpool fans as many turned up drunk & without tickets (yes, it is true)
3) with the police for treating football fans as holigans and not as paying members of the publec (it sill happens today)
4) with football clubs for not updating facilities and having stadiums that were dangerous (fencing etc)
I worked the turnstiles at Charlton (Selhurst) and Millwall 86 to 89 - plenty of scum bags trying to intimidate a young lad into a free ticket and quite a few offering a few quid to jump the turnstiles.
Liverpool away at Millwall midweek in that period was the worst I came across. At least twice as many Liverpool in the end that actually paid.
Cheeky fun loving Scousers !
Blame doesn't bring anyone back, offer closure maybe, and if I lost a loved one that day I would not want to believe it was the fault of other football fans either. Nor would it make me feel any better being told it was the fault of a four metre high fence or the local constabulary.
Doesn't make it right what they printed mind you
Try sharing some blame and you will be more credible
It is the job of the police to control a crowd. I think reason number two was not a significant one.
The police did not do their their homework and were sadly complacent. The whole police attitude was crowd control, rather than crowd safety.
Agree with all your other points though.
I don't blame any individuals but the WYP collectively and the whole footballing authority ethos and attitude to supporters back then.
The BBC coverage from the stadium provided vivd memories of watching it live. It really was a terrible tragedy.
Perhaps the several thousand people running onto the terrace behind them might have contributed. The police might have asked them to walk slowly but I imagine they didn't hear and just ran to get the best view they could. From personal experience I am not sure they all had tickets.
And no, I wasn't there and didn't see what happened.
The police are responsible for controlling and the safety of the crowd. There were two half empty pens to the sides that fans should have been directed too, rather than the central ones.
Disaster had already happened at grounds in Britian and come close to happening before - there was an ignored precedent, which I know is easy to say in hindsight.
JUSTICE FOR THE 96!