Plus the flood plains are not exactly staying still, they are growing larger and larger with everyone lump of concrete that covers the ground.
And with every person who concretes over their lawn to create a driveway.
Regardless of government permission to build, there is a reason you do searches including environmental when you buy a house and flood risk is one of them.
I agree that government can help out but rainfall will go somewhere and when river burst their banks that land alongside it is where it will go.
I have sympathy with people affected but to buy a home on a flood plain and then blame the government when it floods Is a little bit irritating.
Trouble is some of the places weren't flood plains when the homes were built and purchased originally but have become so because of the neglect of the Environment Agency, ie the Government, specifically lack of dredging.
The reasons for that neglect are probably worth a separate thread.
I have sympathy with people affected but to buy a home on a flood plain and then blame the government when it floods Is a little bit irritating.
Trouble is some of the places weren't flood plains when the homes were built and purchased originally but have become so because of the neglect of the Environment Agency, ie the Government, specifically lack of dredging.
The reasons for that neglect are probably worth a separate thread.
Does the dredging issue explain the flooding along the Thames or the Severn? Genuine question. Also I cant see how there can be significant new flood plains in the past hundred years or so.
I have sympathy with people affected but to buy a home on a flood plain and then blame the government when it floods Is a little bit irritating.
Trouble is some of the places weren't flood plains when the homes were built and purchased originally but have become so because of the neglect of the Environment Agency, ie the Government, specifically lack of dredging.
The reasons for that neglect are probably worth a separate thread.
Does the dredging issue explain the flooding along the Thames or the Severn? Genuine question. Also I cant see how there can be significant new flood plains in the past hundred years or so.
I don't profess to be an expert on this subject and local factors come into play too which make it hard to generalise too much.
BUT coastal erosion has intensified in some areas and the breached / lost defences mean that other areas formerly regarded as safe become vulnerable.
Dredging essentially means removing all the silt and general crap that fills the original river space so, whilst not the whole answer, given the length of both the Thames and Severn lack of dredging is almost certainly a factor and homes set back from the "old" river with a nice view of it have now become vulnerable as the excess water has to find somewhere else to flow.
At the bottom of Cobham High Street right opposite an increasingly nice pub is the River Mole which usually sees plenty of ducks etc, some kids even wading in.
I estimate that the river is usually15 foot below the road level and 20 foot wide. The river has been dredged twice as far as I know in recent years but last year and this it still makes the road un drivable regularly and stretches 200 mtrs into the field on the other side
This amount of rain is not usual and we simply can't keep up. I hear the Army are out 5 miles down river in Chertsey etc.
Dredging would do almost nothing to alleviate the floods. It would, at best, lessen the impact during minor flooding. We are currently experiencing the wettest winter for 200 years. This needs to be put into the wider context of poor planning decisions being made by local authoritoies (who are able to ignore the wishes of the EA seemingly with impunity), the need to protect areas with higher population density from more disastrous flooding, the cost involved in making even seemingly minor changes to flood defences and incessant lobbying by farmers that contradicts flood plain management best practices in favour of their own selfish needs.
I did post earlier in the thread about exactly why dredging would do little to nothing to help in this situation and would massively increase the risk of far more serious problems. If there is anybody on here with a background in Geography (more specifically, Hydrology, but that's the longest of long shots!) they can probably explain it better than a Geologist who just did a few months on it as part of their degree. Basically, dredging the rivers and tributaries increases marginally the volume of water that can drain through them, but increases relatively massively the speed at which they flow - leading to things like bridges being washed away and burst banks in urban areas (much greater loss of life).
What Leroy said, yet another example of the media and politicians ignoring the science.
Had to laugh when Pickles said they'd listened too much to the EA - basically saying, we put too much trust in the experts, we should have listened more to the people spouting half baked nonsense based on half truths and misinformation.
Never realized you were a Geologist Leroy, although (and I say this as a Geologist) it makes sense and puts a lot of the stuff you come out with in context!
What Leroy said, yet another example of the media and politicians ignoring the science.
Had to laugh when Pickles said they'd listened too much to the EA - basically saying, we put too much trust in the experts, we should have listened more to the people spouting half baked nonsense based on half truths and misinformation.
Never realized you were a Geologist Leroy, although (and I say this as a Geologist) it makes sense and puts a lot of the stuff you come out with in context!
Geologist by training... (more specifically, paleontologist) but decided pretty early on I didn't want to spend my days stuck in a dingy basement, getting sunstroke on a dig or going batshit on an oil rig
What do you do? And don't say you're a sedimentologist. They're dull, even for Geologists!
So it's the most populated and economically important place in the country.
With all due respect to the people that live there, a little bit more "newsworthy" than some sleepy rural village in Somerset that gets flooded every other year anyway (which in part is why the land is so fertile).
Anyway, when I started this thread back when Christ was a carpenter it was because my kids inflatable day had been cancelled because of a slight breeze. Hardly the same thing is it.
What Leroy said, yet another example of the media and politicians ignoring the science.
Had to laugh when Pickles said they'd listened too much to the EA - basically saying, we put too much trust in the experts, we should have listened more to the people spouting half baked nonsense based on half truths and misinformation.
Never realized you were a Geologist Leroy, although (and I say this as a Geologist) it makes sense and puts a lot of the stuff you come out with in context!
Geologist by training... (more specifically, paleontologist) but decided pretty early on I didn't want to spend my days stuck in a dingy basement, getting sunstroke on a dig or going batshit on an oil rig
What do you do? And don't say you're a sedimentologist. They're dull, even for Geologists!
I work in contaminated land, mostly at petrol stations so I don't get to do much proper geology these days. I used to spend most of my time stood next to a drill rig getting sworn at by the operator and inhaling petrol fumes from the soil but I'm project managing these days though so mostly office based, which I'm bloody glad is what I do here in Canada - it meant when we had to make an emergency site visit today I could send someone else out into the -22°C weather!
Friday morning at 5am I was awoken to go and rescue somebody from flood water on a local road, which the Police closed there and then with the relevant signs etc. Sunday morning our lot went back there as somebody had driven around the signs and was stuck in 4 foot of flood water, yesterday we went there twice for the same thing. 4am we were sent there to find somebody had removed the signs at one end, which we found after helping the man out of his car, we then used lots of "Fire Keep Out" tape to make a spiders web behind the signs. Yet yesterday evening somebody still tore it all down and decided to rsik the flood water. People are idiots, most names have a clue in them, if it contains "Mill", "Water" or "Stream" pick another route.
Great post - we have exactly the same problem in Oz with absolute dickheads trying to cross flooded bridges etc. even when they are explicitly told not to do so.
In the end the Police here often have no choice but to close the entire road down from both ends just so that they don't have to keep rescuing people who try and drive a Ford Fiesta across an eight-foot deep stretch of water.
One woman nearly died in the 2011 floods because she tried to drive across a flooded bridge just so she could rent some DVDs. Unbelievable.
What Leroy said, yet another example of the media and politicians ignoring the science.
Had to laugh when Pickles said they'd listened too much to the EA - basically saying, we put too much trust in the experts, we should have listened more to the people spouting half baked nonsense based on half truths and misinformation.
Never realized you were a Geologist Leroy, although (and I say this as a Geologist) it makes sense and puts a lot of the stuff you come out with in context!
Geologist by training... (more specifically, paleontologist) but decided pretty early on I didn't want to spend my days stuck in a dingy basement, getting sunstroke on a dig or going batshit on an oil rig
What do you do? And don't say you're a sedimentologist. They're dull, even for Geologists!
Two of my favourite posters and they are both Geographers. OK from the dodgy end but Geographers none the less.
Who could possibly think that we Addicks wear cardigans now!
The geology/geography relationship is a bit like Rugby Union and Rugby League. To any non-aficionado, they are basically the same thing but don't try telling that to a fan of either code.
I felt a little bit betrayed when the School of Earth Sciences at Brum Uni merged with the School of Geography.
No cardigans round here - just an anorak and a beard!
On the matter of support for these people affected, when I was a wee lad back in the late 50's and 60's we had what I recall a 'Civil Defense' volunteer force which used to come to the fore in situations such as these.
Forgive me if I haven't kept abreast of the times but do we no longer have them or something similar. Seems to me to be a big leap to deploy the forces in these circumstances, when I would suggest another tier in the hierarchy wouldn't go amiss.
Surely there is no need for this is there. I am certain as I type this other governments will be signing cheques to send our way to help with the flooding crises in the UK, just as we do whenever a country finds itself in difficulty.
Comments
Regardless of government permission to build, there is a reason you do searches including environmental when you buy a house and flood risk is one of them.
I agree that government can help out but rainfall will go somewhere and when river burst their banks that land alongside it is where it will go.
The reasons for that neglect are probably worth a separate thread.
Genuine question.
Also I cant see how there can be significant new flood plains in the past hundred years or so.
BUT coastal erosion has intensified in some areas and the breached / lost defences mean that other areas formerly regarded as safe become vulnerable.
Dredging essentially means removing all the silt and general crap that fills the original river space so, whilst not the whole answer, given the length of both the Thames and Severn lack of dredging is almost certainly a factor and homes set back from the "old" river with a nice view of it have now become vulnerable as the excess water has to find somewhere else to flow.
I estimate that the river is usually15 foot below the road level and 20 foot wide. The river has been dredged twice as far as I know in recent years but last year and this it still makes the road un drivable regularly and stretches 200 mtrs into the field on the other side
This amount of rain is not usual and we simply can't keep up. I hear the Army are out 5 miles down river in Chertsey etc.
I did post earlier in the thread about exactly why dredging would do little to nothing to help in this situation and would massively increase the risk of far more serious problems. If there is anybody on here with a background in Geography (more specifically, Hydrology, but that's the longest of long shots!) they can probably explain it better than a Geologist who just did a few months on it as part of their degree. Basically, dredging the rivers and tributaries increases marginally the volume of water that can drain through them, but increases relatively massively the speed at which they flow - leading to things like bridges being washed away and burst banks in urban areas (much greater loss of life).
Had to laugh when Pickles said they'd listened too much to the EA - basically saying, we put too much trust in the experts, we should have listened more to the people spouting half baked nonsense based on half truths and misinformation.
Never realized you were a Geologist Leroy, although (and I say this as a Geologist) it makes sense and puts a lot of the stuff you come out with in context!
What do you do? And don't say you're a sedimentologist. They're dull, even for Geologists!
With all due respect to the people that live there, a little bit more "newsworthy" than some sleepy rural village in Somerset that gets flooded every other year anyway (which in part is why the land is so fertile).
When threads get bizarrely resurrected #152
"Watery Lane Kemsing »
Road closed due to flooding"
In the end the Police here often have no choice but to close the entire road down from both ends just so that they don't have to keep rescuing people who try and drive a Ford Fiesta across an eight-foot deep stretch of water.
One woman nearly died in the 2011 floods because she tried to drive across a flooded bridge just so she could rent some DVDs. Unbelievable.
Two of my favourite posters and they are both Geographers. OK from the dodgy end but Geographers none the less.
Who could possibly think that we Addicks wear cardigans now!
Edit - Exile being the other Geographer.
The geology/geography relationship is a bit like Rugby Union and Rugby League. To any non-aficionado, they are basically the same thing but don't try telling that to a fan of either code.
I felt a little bit betrayed when the School of Earth Sciences at Brum Uni merged with the School of Geography.
No cardigans round here - just an anorak and a beard!
Forgive me if I haven't kept abreast of the times but do we no longer have them or something similar. Seems to me to be a big leap to deploy the forces in these circumstances, when I would suggest another tier in the hierarchy wouldn't go amiss.
Or maybe not.....................