A few on here are saying this is a wind up but I don't think so...
Vincent is simply replaying the famous Life of Brian sketch from a different angle... What did the Romans ever do for us / what did the board do against us? It has been my priviledge to be on the Trust Board for nearly a year now and in that time I have met Peter Varney, David White, Paul Elliott, Richard Murray and of course Steve Bradshaw on several occasions... I have also worked with some really bright people like Mundell Flemming, New York Addick and others to put together a reasoned view of Charlton finances and the new world of FFP
My very simple point is that Charlton needs to find enough money to get promoted. There are a number of ways to do this and the Trust hopes to pull together some ideas which might help the club. The trouble is that even the mere mention of this gets a few people going about how impossible it is etc. etc. But sowing the seeds appears to be working as the Trust grows each and every month.
If the fans want their shares back then they have two options - wait for the club to fall over or go and buy some off one of the current owners - I did ask Richard Murray if he would like to give some to the Trust but unfortunately he didn't sign them over there and then... but I did try!
There is a third option which is that the fans act as a cohesive unit and earn the shares / raise enough cash to buy them but that's a long way off. As Prague has stated on occasions, perhaps the Trust can meet and greet wealthier fans and put together a scheme that makes sense - not to Kings Hill but just to most people!
So the club has to either follow the Peterborough model or win promotion and these two strategies are often diametrically opposed when it comes to squad management. You either sell your best player or strengthen your weakest positions. What I saw last season was the weakest positions being strengthened by loans, trial and error etc... constantly until we got to a decent AND consistent team. And the players who didn't feature in the final plan were let go. What I haven't seen is a natural continuation of that but I will be consistent and won't comment until end September.
To expand on it, if we don't achieve that promotion we are in trouble if we have owners in it just for profit, because they are investing more than a Champ club is worth. There does not appear to be a CAFC supporting Jack Walker or Dave Whelan out there to spunk away a large personal fortune on his or her life's sporting passion. Without that the inevitable sale of our club will be to someone who is either minted and on an ego trip or someone else looking for profit. Problem with the latter is the limited ways of cashing in. either you get absolutely slated for taking out Sky money and not "investing in the squad" or you sell on to someone else who is deluded enough to think further value can be added.
I think the Peterboro model is the one for Charlton. It's how it always was. Problem is it's a bit late for that now, with profit-seeking owners having committed a large wedge. we are already committed to loan repayments if we ever get a sniff of Sky's Premiership shilling.
The current situation is a gamble and the gambler is not on a roll which means he has to dig deeper and deeper or cut his losses. It Won't go on like that indefinitely in the Championship. Seriously red makes a good case for the Trust to get organised and work on a quiet contingency plan in the background working with our wealthier fans. To me, applying logic, it is going to end in administration or oligarch. If the former we can set about doing a Swansea. What I don't know though is where Swansea stood vis a vis the ground. Pompey's problems were exacerbated by their owners apparent desire to recover money from a security over Fratton Park and I never quite understood how the Supporters Trust was able to defeat that. Much we can learn from dialogue with other STs I think!
Meanwhile criticising the board serves little purpose unless the critics have a realistic alternative to propose.
I believe that the improvements to our squad this year should see us pushing for at least a play-off spot. What disappoints me a little is SCP's comment that we 'over-achieved' last season which suggests that he does not share my optimistic view of building on last year. The win last night with a reserve team (albeit against lesser opposition) has helped bring back my optimism after witnessing the poor performance at Bournemouth on Saturday. If we can get a few quick league wins this year and improve our home results, I'm sure that top 6 is achievable...................all of this is relevant given the absolute need to reach the Promised Land of the Premiership which is likely to be the best hope of long term financial survival for our beloved team.
I can see where Vincent is coming from. I don't have any inside knowledge of anything, don't know anyoneITK. But... isn't our real problem the fact that it seems to be impossible to run the club at a profit in the championship, in spite of decent attendances in the league? That's what any prospective buyer would want- a profit. So how do you think he'd go about getting it? Answers please on a postcard to Valley Floyd Road.
' Andy all you need to do is listen to Peterborough's chairman. Live by your means and sell the odd player when you need to. Or better still get promoted to the PL
Reading your thread and the comments persuaded me to join CL to reply.
Like many, I was at the Stoke game the day the gates were padlocked. The 5,000 of us who then stuck with the Club and went to Selhurst and Upton Park for 7 years of "home games" vowed at the time...never again.
Incidentally, I find it absolutely laughable the amount of snide comments Rick Everitt gets on here. No single ordinary supporter has done more than Rick over the years to keep CAFC going. Some people need to wise up, or read a bit of recent Club history starting around 1984.
A combination of a moribund supporters club that took it's eye off the ball, and a group of secretive owners who did not have the Clubs best interests at heart is a situation that could easily arise again.
I am sure Michael Slater told a fan's Q and A last year that he was personally pumping £1m a month into the Club to keep it going. Isn't it the legitimate concern of every Charlton fan to worry just how long this situation can continue ?
Well done for asking. No great surprise that you didn't get a complete answer.
Isn't it astounding that the wantaway, invisible owners have allowed a situation to arise whereby 90% of our playing squad and our entire management team will be out of contract next summer.
Reading your thread and the comments persuaded me to join CL to reply.
Like many, I was at the Stoke game the day the gates were padlocked. The 5,000 of us who then stuck with the Club and went to Selhurst and Upton Park for 7 years of "home games" vowed at the time...never again.
Incidentally, I find it absolutely laughable the amount of snide comments Rick Everitt gets on here. No single ordinary supporter has done more than Rick over the years to keep CAFC going. Some people need to wise up, or read a bit of recent Club history starting around 1984.
A combination of a moribund supporters club that took it's eye off the ball, and a group of secretive owners who did not have the Clubs best interests at heart is a situation that could easily arise again.
I am sure Michael Slater told a fan's Q and A last year that he was personally pumping £1m a month into the Club to keep it going. Isn't it the legitimate concern of every Charlton fan to worry just how long this situation can continue ?
To be concerned for the future maybe but criticism of the board why? As I have said previously when RM sold the club who else was interested and as you state the current board are financing CAFC at a loss. As for Rick again I have already said what he had done over the years has been fantastic and he should be added to our proud history in years to come
To expand on it, if we don't achieve that promotion we are in trouble if we have owners in it just for profit, because they are investing more than a Champ club is worth. There does not appear to be a CAFC supporting Jack Walker or Dave Whelan out there to spunk away a large personal fortune on his or her life's sporting passion. Without that the inevitable sale of our club will be to someone who is either minted and on an ego trip or someone else looking for profit. Problem with the latter is the limited ways of cashing in. either you get absolutely slated for taking out Sky money and not "investing in the squad" or you sell on to someone else who is deluded enough to think further value can be added.
I think the Peterboro model is the one for Charlton. It's how it always was. Problem is it's a bit late for that now, with profit-seeking owners having committed a large wedge. we are already committed to loan repayments if we ever get a sniff of Sky's Premiership shilling.
The current situation is a gamble and the gambler is not on a roll which means he has to dig deeper and deeper or cut his losses. It Won't go on like that indefinitely in the Championship. Seriously red makes a good case for the Trust to get organised and work on a quiet contingency plan in the background working with our wealthier fans. To me, applying logic, it is going to end in administration or oligarch. If the former we can set about doing a Swansea. What I don't know though is where Swansea stood vis a vis the ground. Pompey's problems were exacerbated by their owners apparent desire to recover money from a security over Fratton Park and I never quite understood how the Supporters Trust was able to defeat that. Much we can learn from dialogue with other STs I think!
Meanwhile criticising the board serves little purpose unless the critics have a realistic alternative to propose.
Reading your thread and the comments persuaded me to join CL to reply.
Like many, I was at the Stoke game the day the gates were padlocked. The 5,000 of us who then stuck with the Club and went to Selhurst and Upton Park for 7 years of "home games" vowed at the time...never again.
Incidentally, I find it absolutely laughable the amount of snide comments Rick Everitt gets on here. No single ordinary supporter has done more than Rick over the years to keep CAFC going. Some people need to wise up, or read a bit of recent Club history starting around 1984.
A combination of a moribund supporters club that took it's eye off the ball, and a group of secretive owners who did not have the Clubs best interests at heart is a situation that could easily arise again.
I am sure Michael Slater told a fan's Q and A last year that he was personally pumping £1m a month into the Club to keep it going. Isn't it the legitimate concern of every Charlton fan to worry just how long this situation can continue ?
GPA I agree with the points you make but it is not the board who are at fault, IMHO we have gained promotion have a better squad now than when they took over, a lot of youths coming through and our season tickets are competitively priced. They give away thousands of free tickets for every home game and yet our attendances have not increased so what more do you want them to do. And who else is banging on the door to throw their money away
The last couple of years of the Richard Murray regime were a calamity. Rather like Roger Moore as James Bond, Muzza went on a bit longer than was sensible. I think after two relegations and Dowie/Reed/Pardew/Parky, we were all guilty of viewing Slater and Co thru rose tinted specs for a while.
2. They have sacked long serving , proper Charlton people.
3. They don't communicate with fans.
4. They have failed to support Powell in the transfer market, leading to a lop sided squad.
5. They have presided over a situation whereby 90% of our squad cam walk away for nothing next summer.
6. A small bottle of Charlton water cost £1.80 at the recent Open Day.
GPA I accept all the points you have made because I do not get involved with what goes on behind the scenes all I do is go to the Valley to watch my team play football something I have been doing for 42 years, and I have seen it all before but considering that there are a lot of clubs in the same or worse position than we are I do not think the club is run badly. The next few months might prove how wrong I am to be so naive or you to worry about nothing I hope it is you but who really knows
The last couple of years of the Richard Murray regime were a calamity. Rather like Roger Moore as James Bond, Muzza went on a bit longer than was sensible. I think after two relegations and Dowie/Reed/Pardew/Parky, we were all guilty of viewing Slater and Co thru rose tinted specs for a while.
Trouble is as I have said before who else was there
Churchills butler noted that supporters of the board are ridiculed insulted and then banished. That is the democracy of Airman chappie and dear old Henry alias BH. I know this cos he told me when tried to enter on Sat last he found himself Entry denied. No reason given though he e mailed to ask no one replied. If I am banned now you will know why. They don't allow a reasoned reply.
Hello Sailor, somehow I don't think you will be in port long.
Churchills butler noted that supporters of the board are ridiculed insulted and then banished. That is the democracy of Airman chappie and dear old Henry alias BH. I know this cos he told me when tried to enter on Sat last he found himself Entry denied. No reason given though he e mailed to ask no one replied. If I am banned now you will know why. They don't allow a reasoned reply.
Not that's it's anything to do with me. But I believe he was banned, for going on an all day rant, that became more and more bizarre as the day progressed. Very very strange.
Churchills butler noted that supporters of the board are ridiculed insulted and then banished. That is the democracy of Airman chappie and dear old Henry alias BH. I know this cos he told me when tried to enter on Sat last he found himself Entry denied. No reason given though he e mailed to ask no one replied. If I am banned now you will know why. They don't allow a reasoned reply.
You're sounding very much like Churchill's Butler & I think you may well emulate your friend. Anyway carry on.
What CL toe the line view? The site is pretty diverse it seems to me. Out and out wrongdoing, like blatant racism gets banned. However a range of opinions seems to be the order of the day. if everybody took the same view there would scarcely be any debate, nor would there be any traffic on here.
There are several posters who don't 'toe the line' as you call it Sailor.
Plenty are taking the 'let's just wait and see' route. Not necessarily burying their heads in the sand, but certainly prepared to give the present incumbants the benefit of the doubt........... for the moment.
Re those that don't toe the line, there should be a BO squad that patrols the city like a "Smell Gestapo". To sniff 'em out, strip 'em down and wash them with a big, soapy brush.
They may sign new contracts this year but I agree that an iceberg is on the horizon. I also believe the board know this and they are trying to sell the club before it hits. They also realise that the team needs to be in good shape and considering the financial difficulties, the squad stacks up ok as far as I am concerned. Frustrating, because we were in a position at the end of last season that with some minor investment, we would have been very strong this season.
There seems to be two issues, the first I have mentioned above and the second is the way the club behaves in the business sense. As fans, we are less concerned, rightly or wrongly with the second. If the club is sold, people we associate the business dealings with the past management and not the club though.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't be worried as the current set up is not sustainable but we should also remember the situation was caused by the bailing out of the key backer and money man. We got promotion and things were working very well up to then. It is a shame that Cash is clearly a business man with no insight into football as had he had a modicum of the latter, he may have realised that despite things not being quite what he was promised, he had a fantastic opportunity to make good money as Chrissy was doing something special with the team.
My position has always been that whatever you think about the board - fortunately on one level they have the same interests as we do do. Not for the same reasons but this is important. If we go down, they suffer too, so they will be doing everything they can to sell and if they succeed history will judge them more kindly than they possibly deserve. But that is the way it goes.
For our part, if we are not as fans going to plough millions into the club, the best thing we can do is support the lads and be together so that future buyer isn't put off by a disunited club. A pretty helpless, but in my opinion the pragmatic position. We have to understand that an owner isn't elected - when you demonstrate to get one out, you need somebody else to step in. One thing I do believe, is that Jiminez has the savvy to find a buyer.
I've not read the thread at all, I just wanted to make this point.
One thing that worries me is our academy status, it being category2 we have already lost players, something which I think will continue. I understand that it is expensive to run it as a category 1 however, in the longer term I think it will pay for itself.
Comments
Vincent is simply replaying the famous Life of Brian sketch from a different angle... What did the Romans ever do for us / what did the board do against us?
It has been my priviledge to be on the Trust Board for nearly a year now and in that time I have met Peter Varney, David White, Paul Elliott, Richard Murray and of course Steve Bradshaw on several occasions... I have also worked with some really bright people like Mundell Flemming, New York Addick and others to put together a reasoned view of Charlton finances and the new world of FFP
My very simple point is that Charlton needs to find enough money to get promoted. There are a number of ways to do this and the Trust hopes to pull together some ideas which might help the club. The trouble is that even the mere mention of this gets a few people going about how impossible it is etc. etc. But sowing the seeds appears to be working as the Trust grows each and every month.
If the fans want their shares back then they have two options - wait for the club to fall over or go and buy some off one of the current owners - I did ask Richard Murray if he would like to give some to the Trust but unfortunately he didn't sign them over there and then... but I did try!
There is a third option which is that the fans act as a cohesive unit and earn the shares / raise enough cash to buy them but that's a long way off. As Prague has stated on occasions, perhaps the Trust can meet and greet wealthier fans and put together a scheme that makes sense - not to Kings Hill but just to most people!
So the club has to either follow the Peterborough model or win promotion and these two strategies are often diametrically opposed when it comes to squad management. You either sell your best player or strengthen your weakest positions. What I saw last season was the weakest positions being strengthened by loans, trial and error etc... constantly until we got to a decent AND consistent team. And the players who didn't feature in the final plan were let go. What I haven't seen is a natural continuation of that but I will be consistent and won't comment until end September.
Now time to get to the first win of the season
To expand on it, if we don't achieve that promotion we are in trouble if we have owners in it just for profit, because they are investing more than a Champ club is worth. There does not appear to be a CAFC supporting Jack Walker or Dave Whelan out there to spunk away a large personal fortune on his or her life's sporting passion. Without that the inevitable sale of our club will be to someone who is either minted and on an ego trip or someone else looking for profit. Problem with the latter is the limited ways of cashing in. either you get absolutely slated for taking out Sky money and not "investing in the squad" or you sell on to someone else who is deluded enough to think further value can be added.
I think the Peterboro model is the one for Charlton. It's how it always was. Problem is it's a bit late for that now, with profit-seeking owners having committed a large wedge. we are already committed to loan repayments if we ever get a sniff of Sky's Premiership shilling.
The current situation is a gamble and the gambler is not on a roll which means he has to dig deeper and deeper or cut his losses. It Won't go on like that indefinitely in the Championship. Seriously red makes a good case for the Trust to get organised and work on a quiet contingency plan in the background working with our wealthier fans. To me, applying logic, it is going to end in administration or oligarch. If the former we can set about doing a Swansea. What I don't know though is where Swansea stood vis a vis the ground. Pompey's problems were exacerbated by their owners apparent desire to recover money from a security over Fratton Park and I never quite understood how the Supporters Trust was able to defeat that. Much we can learn from dialogue with other STs I think!
Meanwhile criticising the board serves little purpose unless the critics have a realistic alternative to propose.
Reading your thread and the comments persuaded me to join CL to reply.
Like many, I was at the Stoke game the day the gates were padlocked. The 5,000 of us who then stuck with the Club and went to Selhurst and Upton Park for 7 years of "home games" vowed at the time...never again.
Incidentally, I find it absolutely laughable the amount of snide comments Rick Everitt gets on here. No single ordinary supporter has done more than Rick over the years to keep CAFC going. Some people need to wise up, or read a bit of recent Club history starting around 1984.
A combination of a moribund supporters club that took it's eye off the ball, and a group of secretive owners who did not have the Clubs best interests at heart is a situation that could easily arise again.
I am sure Michael Slater told a fan's Q and A last year that he was personally pumping £1m a month into the Club to keep it going. Isn't it the legitimate concern of every Charlton fan to worry just how long this situation can continue ?
However, I wasn't given the opportunity to follow up with "whose money", as the microphone was swiftly whisked away :-)
Isn't it astounding that the wantaway, invisible owners have allowed a situation to arise whereby 90% of our playing squad and our entire management team will be out of contract next summer.
As for Rick again I have already said what he had done over the years has been fantastic and he should be added to our proud history in years to come
1. They can't be bothered to come to our games.
2. They have sacked long serving , proper Charlton people.
3. They don't communicate with fans.
4. They have failed to support Powell in the transfer market, leading to a lop sided squad.
5. They have presided over a situation whereby 90% of our squad cam walk away for nothing next summer.
6. A small bottle of Charlton water cost £1.80 at the recent Open Day.
The last couple of years of the Richard Murray regime were a calamity. Rather like Roger Moore as James Bond, Muzza went on a bit longer than was sensible. I think after two relegations and Dowie/Reed/Pardew/Parky, we were all guilty of viewing Slater and Co thru rose tinted specs for a while.
The site is pretty diverse it seems to me. Out and out wrongdoing, like blatant racism gets banned. However a range of opinions seems to be the order of the day. if everybody took the same view there would scarcely be any debate, nor would there be any traffic on here.
Plenty are taking the 'let's just wait and see' route. Not necessarily burying their heads in the sand, but certainly prepared to give the present incumbants the benefit of the doubt........... for the moment.
There seems to be two issues, the first I have mentioned above and the second is the way the club behaves in the business sense. As fans, we are less concerned, rightly or wrongly with the second. If the club is sold, people we associate the business dealings with the past management and not the club though.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't be worried as the current set up is not sustainable but we should also remember the situation was caused by the bailing out of the key backer and money man. We got promotion and things were working very well up to then. It is a shame that Cash is clearly a business man with no insight into football as had he had a modicum of the latter, he may have realised that despite things not being quite what he was promised, he had a fantastic opportunity to make good money as Chrissy was doing something special with the team.
My position has always been that whatever you think about the board - fortunately on one level they have the same interests as we do do. Not for the same reasons but this is important. If we go down, they suffer too, so they will be doing everything they can to sell and if they succeed history will judge them more kindly than they possibly deserve. But that is the way it goes.
For our part, if we are not as fans going to plough millions into the club, the best thing we can do is support the lads and be together so that future buyer isn't put off by a disunited club. A pretty helpless, but in my opinion the pragmatic position. We have to understand that an owner isn't elected - when you demonstrate to get one out, you need somebody else to step in. One thing I do believe, is that Jiminez has the savvy to find a buyer.
One thing that worries me is our academy status, it being category2 we have already lost players, something which I think will continue. I understand that it is expensive to run it as a category 1 however, in the longer term I think it will pay for itself.