Remind me again...and don't forget that you and I broadly agree with each other on Chris P....when he led us to 101 points in League One, wasn't it with far greater resources than any other manager bar Sheff Wed ? Wasn't he given the Jenkinson money to go out and buy a new team ?
He has been in tenure longer than 80% of his peers in this League. Make excuses and defend him, but don't say he is still learning ..
...and finished just outside the play offs in a league where most other teams have better funding. Boro just spent a reported 1 million on one player. Not really sure what your argument is to be honest. It started with Powell has done a good job but isn't beyond criticism (fair enough) and has changed to, he's had a whole 2 1/2 seasons of managing so he can't still be learning and we only won the league because of the money he was given to spend. Money, incidentally, earned after playing a player who wasn't even in the squad under the previous manager.
Exacty.
Just changing his tune as he goes along.
Apparently CP is one of the most experienced managers in the football league!!! Heard it all now.
My argument is more a question..why do a section of our fans brook no criticism in any circumstances of C.Powell, and what's more pounce like Tom on Jerry on those of us with doubts.
Thanks to BFR for spelling out his position. I dont agree with it, but appreciate his view.
The point about the Jenkinson £1m was that while getting promotion with 101 points was great, it can't be claimed that CP has never had backing, because that year he was supported.
He was supported because there was a financial backer who has since fallen out with Tone and, as a result, we now don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. You seem to be suggesting that Powell deserves booing when the team lose because its his job to manage the team. In that case, the only thing Jimenez has to do is secure the financial side of the club. This he has singularly failed to do. Seems to me that, by your logic, he should be roundly abused until he either secures some cash, or fucks off.
Just as a general question to others, if you had the hypothetical choice in 2014 of getting new owners who had promised £10m for new players and a promotion push BUT wanted their own man is as manager (i.e au revoir Sir Chris) , which would you choose ?
What does that have to do with your different perspective than certain others on Chris at the moment? That isn't the circumstances so is irrelevant. The views are mainly based in recent factual history and current circumstances, and then it's about a choice of perspective. Changing an argument to hypotheticals just smacks of desperation and arrogance.
On reading your posts it's clear that your views and method of argument are as blinkered, selective and non subjective as you think the Pro Powell'y ones you are disagreeing with are. Especially when you insist on saying Chris is above criticism by some when that clearly isn't the case. You can criticise and allow leeway. Most of us fans suffer from hypocrisiy at various times, don't worry. And like most people you're just unable to see it. Doesn't necessarily make either views wrong or write, just a different choice of perspective.
Just as a general question to others, if you had the hypothetical choice in 2014 of getting new owners who had promised £10m for new players and a promotion push BUT wanted their own man is as manager (i.e au revoir Sir Chris) , which would you choose ?
What does that have to do with your different perspective than certain others on Chris at the moment? That isn't the circumstances so is irrelevant. The views are mainly based in recent factual history and current circumstances, and then it's about a choice of perspective. Changing an argument to hypotheticals just smacks of desperation and arrogance.
On reading your posts it's clear that your views and method of argument are as blinkered, selective and non subjective as you think the Pro Powell'y ones you are disagreeing with are. Especially when you insist on saying Chris is above criticism by some when that clearly isn't the case. You can criticise and allow leeway. Most of us fans suffer from hypocrisiy at various times, don't worry. And like most people you're just unable to see it. Doesn't necessarily make either views wrong or write, just a different choice of perspective.
its not an irrelevance, I was interested to know if some fans would put Powell before new owners and possible promotion (a situation which may yet arise..)
Remind me again...and don't forget that you and I broadly agree with each other on Chris P....when he led us to 101 points in League One, wasn't it with far greater resources than any other manager bar Sheff Wed ? Wasn't he given the Jenkinson money to go out and buy a new team ?
He has been in tenure longer than 80% of his peers in this League. Make excuses and defend him, but don't say he is still learning ..
...and finished just outside the play offs in a league where most other teams have better funding. Boro just spent a reported 1 million on one player. Not really sure what your argument is to be honest. It started with Powell has done a good job but isn't beyond criticism (fair enough) and has changed to, he's had a whole 2 1/2 seasons of managing so he can't still be learning and we only won the league because of the money he was given to spend. Money, incidentally, earned after playing a player who wasn't even in the squad under the previous manager.
Exacty.
Just changing his tune as he goes along.
Apparently CP is one of the most experienced managers in the football league!!! Heard it all now.
have a look at the average tenure of every other manager in the Championship, and then tell me that Powell is not the managerial equivalent of Old Father Time. If you asked your dentist before he kneeled on your chest and pulled oit your root canal how long he had been doing them, and he replied " two and a half years mate", you would think great , he is experienced.
My argument is more a question..why do a section of our fans brook no criticism in any circumstances of C.Powell, and what's more pounce like Tom on Jerry on those of us with doubts.
Thanks to BFR for spelling out his position. I dont agree with it, but appreciate his view.
The point about the Jenkinson £1m was that while getting promotion with 101 points was great, it can't be claimed that CP has never had backing, because that year he was supported.
He was supported because there was a financial backer who has since fallen out with Tone and, as a result, we now don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. You seem to be suggesting that Powell deserves booing when the team lose because its his job to manage the team. In that case, the only thing Jimenez has to do is secure the financial side of the club. This he has singularly failed to do. Seems to me that, by your logic, he should be roundly abused until he either secures some cash, or fucks off.
Never once said CP should be booed. Just thought he was poor yesterday on a number of levels. "The Pack" swooped and disagreed with me.
I cannot believe I have just read that Chris Powell is the managerial equivalent of Old Father Time. And as for the dental analogy !
Mate, do you think Sir Alex Ferguson knew everything after 2 & a half years ? Or Wenger ?
Powell is learning as he goes without a Lennie type in the dug out with him. He's made mistakes and will make more but I'd say his overall record ain't too shabby.
Harry Redknapp, Billy Davies, Dave Jones, Gary Johnson, Lee Clark, Tony Mowbray, Nigel Pearson, Owen Coyle, Nigel Adkins, Mick McCarthy, Paul Ince, Gianfranco Zola, Brian McDermott, even Eddie Howe. That's as many as I could think of in our league off the top of my head, all of whom have more experience than Powell. The idea that being at one team for 2.5 years makes you some kind of footballing Illuminati is hilarious.
Just as a general question to others, if you had the hypothetical choice in 2014 of getting new owners who had promised £10m for new players and a promotion push BUT wanted their own man is as manager (i.e au revoir Sir Chris) , which would you choose ?
What does that have to do with your different perspective than certain others on Chris at the moment? That isn't the circumstances so is irrelevant. The views are mainly based in recent factual history and current circumstances, and then it's about a choice of perspective. Changing an argument to hypotheticals just smacks of desperation and arrogance.
On reading your posts it's clear that your views and method of argument are as blinkered, selective and non subjective as you think the Pro Powell'y ones you are disagreeing with are. Especially when you insist on saying Chris is above criticism by some when that clearly isn't the case. You can criticise and allow leeway. Most of us fans suffer from hypocrisiy at various times, don't worry. And like most people you're just unable to see it. Doesn't necessarily make either views wrong or write, just a different choice of perspective.
its not an irrelevance, I was interested to know if some fans would put Powell before new owners and possible promotion (a situation which may yet arise..)
Remind me again...and don't forget that you and I broadly agree with each other on Chris P....when he led us to 101 points in League One, wasn't it with far greater resources than any other manager bar Sheff Wed ? Wasn't he given the Jenkinson money to go out and buy a new team ?
He has been in tenure longer than 80% of his peers in this League. Make excuses and defend him, but don't say he is still learning ..
...and finished just outside the play offs in a league where most other teams have better funding. Boro just spent a reported 1 million on one player. Not really sure what your argument is to be honest. It started with Powell has done a good job but isn't beyond criticism (fair enough) and has changed to, he's had a whole 2 1/2 seasons of managing so he can't still be learning and we only won the league because of the money he was given to spend. Money, incidentally, earned after playing a player who wasn't even in the squad under the previous manager.
Exacty.
Just changing his tune as he goes along.
Apparently CP is one of the most experienced managers in the football league!!! Heard it all now.
have a look at the average tenure of every other manager in the Championship, and then tell me that Powell is not the managerial equivalent of Old Father Time. If you asked your dentist before he kneeled on your chest and pulled oit your root canal how long he had been doing them, and he replied " two and a half years mate", you would think great , he is experienced.
Yes it is irrelevant because a point of view on Chris within the current circumstances doesn't relate to hypothetical scenarios. No matter how desperate you are to show that certain posters are blinded by faith.
So a manager in a job for 2 1/2 seasons is as/more experienced than someone who's had 10 jobs in 10 seasons? And a job that consists of complete knowns, scientific facts and a 1 to 1 scenario is comparable to a job with numerous people involved, countless unknowns and numerous circumstances beyond personal control? Very strange. I'll also add that if you're in a job where you learn't everything there is to learn about it in 2 1/2 years; You're in a simple job.
Two and a half years is plenty of time. We were a big boy in the playground in League One. Stop making excuses for him. Even if he has managed 150 games that is plenty. Most could spot that Danny Green isn't up to it after one. Dougie Freedman got Lennie in as the wise old head at Palace... and then took him to Bolton with him. Chris seems to prefer to be seen as the main man at Charlton. With that goes the bouquets and the brickbats I'm afraid.
Two and a half years is plenty of time. We were a big boy in the playground in League One. Stop making excuses for him. Even if he has managed 150 games that is plenty. Most could spot that Danny Green isn't up to it after one. Dougie Freedman got Lennie in as the wise old head at Palace... and then took him to Bolton with him. Chris seems to prefer to be seen as the main man at Charlton. With that goes the bouquets and the brickbats I'm afraid.
Christ, did he piss in your cornflakes or something?
champions with record points and 9th now tell me why he cant have grace
My position is on Powell is very similar to friend Valley Garry's. So similar in fact, I am thinking of renaming myself ValleyBarry. Or Harry.
Powell has done well on limited resources. Yesterday was pathetic and he as manager was culpable. There is no point replacing him unless we get new owners with lots of money. He is NOT learning on the job, he has been our manager for over two years which makes him one of the most experienced in the football league . During that time he has been on more courses than Red Rum. Good luck to.him, but please judge him by the same standards as the other 91 managers, or if you and Fanny can't, please allow the rest of us to.
Cheers.
Is that a serious comment? or in fact are you confirming your on a wind up? 2 years compared to Mowbury's? Even people like Ince and Freedman have been managing more than Chrissy? Not to mention people like Pearson, McCarthy and Jones
Just as a general question to others, if you had the hypothetical choice in 2014 of getting new owners who had promised £10m for new players and a promotion push BUT wanted their own man is as manager (i.e au revoir Sir Chris) , which would you choose ?
There is no new owners, there is no £10 million for new players. If CP had some backing last season and this for the players he wanted then I believe we would be top 6. What is the point of this hypothetical question in any case ? I hate hypothetical questions. It is just another angle of the undermining of CP line, for your unspecified agenda.
Personally, I think you are Gus Poyets agent and I claim my £10.
This fella is clearly winding up. Where do we find these fans.
In the Covered End yesterday supporting my team of 40 years. Ditto at places like Barnsley last season. Come back and have a better attempt at patronising me when you have seen Charlton at over 70 grounds like I have.
@ NLA
Not a WUM mate, just an alternative view on Powell on CL. Think of it like the Guardian currently doing a Page 3.
Woopy doo. Fair play, ill never beat that, but saying a fella in his job for 2 years is more experienced than another in the job for 10-20 years is a bit weird.
You know that 'Godwin's Law'? Where the first person to mention Nazi Germany in an argument automatically loses the debate? There needs to be a similar rule for bores invoking the number of years they've been following Charlton, or the amount of games they've seen, or the number of grounds they've been to as a way to legitimise a completely spurious argument or viewpoint. How about 'Maginot's Law'?
Powell is not inexperienced. His USP when he replaced Parky (a better manager, IMO) was that he uniquely "knew Charlton" whatever that guff means and knew the Charlton way (at that time, losing every week). If he felt he lacked experience he could have brought an.old head in as No.2. He didn't. Experience not an issue or excuse, then. I refer you all to the thread "Chris Powell ....is it man love?" from earlier this year, on which presumably sentient human beings apparently declare undying love for a bloke for leaping out of a tunnel.
Comments
Just changing his tune as he goes along.
Apparently CP is one of the most experienced managers in the football league!!! Heard it all now.
On reading your posts it's clear that your views and method of argument are as blinkered, selective and non subjective as you think the Pro Powell'y ones you are disagreeing with are. Especially when you insist on saying Chris is above criticism by some when that clearly isn't the case. You can criticise and allow leeway. Most of us fans suffer from hypocrisiy at various times, don't worry. And like most people you're just unable to see it. Doesn't necessarily make either views wrong or write, just a different choice of perspective.
At a guess I reckon that of all the managers of the 92 in the league he will be in the lower half experience wise
SCP has managed at Charlton 2.5 years , David Moyes has managed at Man Utd 40 days and he is soooooo much more experienced than SCP
Mate, do you think Sir Alex Ferguson knew everything after 2 & a half years ?
Or Wenger ?
Powell is learning as he goes without a Lennie type in the dug out with him. He's made mistakes and will make more but I'd say his overall record ain't too shabby.
1. Lennie
2. Curbs
3. Parky (got a bum deal)
4. Powell
5. Mike Bailey
6. Craggs
7. Reed
8. Nelson Out
9. Dowie
10. Mullery
100th Pardew
To be honest, all of them from 5 down couldn't manage a school tuck shop.
Yes it is irrelevant because a point of view on Chris within the current circumstances doesn't relate to hypothetical scenarios. No matter how desperate you are to show that certain posters are blinded by faith.
So a manager in a job for 2 1/2 seasons is as/more experienced than someone who's had 10 jobs in 10 seasons? And a job that consists of complete knowns, scientific facts and a 1 to 1 scenario is comparable to a job with numerous people involved, countless unknowns and numerous circumstances beyond personal control? Very strange. I'll also add that if you're in a job where you learn't everything there is to learn about it in 2 1/2 years; You're in a simple job.
Dougie Freedman got Lennie in as the wise old head at Palace...
and then took him to Bolton with him. Chris seems to prefer to be seen as the main man at Charlton. With that goes the bouquets and the brickbats I'm afraid.
Personally, I think you are Gus Poyets agent and I claim my £10.
No i would no problem if you talk shite you need to be told either on here or in the boozer
@ NLA
Not a WUM mate, just an alternative view on Powell on CL. Think of it like the Guardian currently doing a Page 3.
@ Alan
Surely you were not a fan of Andy Nelson Out !
I refer you all to the thread "Chris Powell ....is it man love?" from earlier this year, on which presumably sentient human beings apparently declare undying love for a bloke for leaping out of a tunnel.
That's how it works right?