Leroy has considered this situation. And breaks it down thus.
1 - The overall population of the country may only be 3% black, but the players that make up the football 'industry' (from whence the vast majority of football managers are recruited) have a far higher percentage of blacks. This has been the case for at least twenty years and, with the exceptionally high turnover rate in the industry, enough time has passed for the change in attitude that has been prevalent in society over that time to have filtered down to football. This indicates there may be a valid point to look at (arguments from hand wringing liberals and knuckle dragging troglodytes notwithstanding)
2 - The Rooney Rule has actually been a success in the NFL - to the point that it's no longer even discussed by anyone outside Fox News. Black coaches are now far more prominent than previously, and no-one cares about ethnicity any more (whereas a black coach 30 years ago raised eyebrows and pulses alike)
3 - Neither of these points, despite being obvious to anyone possessed of intelligence in excess of that of pine furniture will prevent this thread from descending into a pathetic free for all as those with their own agendas to push and too much time on their hands engage in futile oneupmanship and childish point scoring
4 - Sol Campbell is an arrogant, self-aggrandising, facetious prick.
Lets not let stories like this tar every black player complaining about racism under the same brush.
Sure, Sol might be a bit mistaken in this case, but lets not kid ourselves thinking racism has been completely eradicated from the game. The amount of black (or any minority) managers and coaches compared to players is one indication alone.
Sol Campbell, the former England and Arsenal defender, believes he will have to move abroad to fulfil his ambitions of becoming a coach due to racial prejudices that exist in this country, describing attitudes to black footballers here as "archaic".
Campbell, who won 73 caps for his country, two Premier League titles with Arsenal and at his prime was recognised as being among the finest central defenders in the world, is currently working towards gaining the qualifications required to become a coach or manager across Europe having retired following a 19-year playing career in May 2012. From start to finish, the process is likely to take three years and Campbell believes that upon completion he will have to leave Britain to begin his new career.
"I want to start abroad," said the 39-year-old in an exclusive interview with the Guardian. "There are no opportunities for me here, not until attitudes change anyway. Everyone has to ask themselves why there are not more black managers in this country and why the likes of [former Sheffield United striker] Brian Deane have to go abroad [to Sarpsborg 08 in Norway] to get a chance. I've spoken to other black players who want to coach and they feel the same, that attitudes here are archaic. I hope and pray the environment changes."
Campbell's assertion is backed up by the paucity of black managers currently working in England, with only four – Chris Hughton, Chris Powell, Paul Ince and Chris Kiwomya – employed among the country's 92 professional clubs. There may well be vast improvements should the Professional Footballers Association and Football League's plans to introduce an equivalent of the "Rooney Rule" – which requires NFL teams in America to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head-coach roles – go ahead. However, Campbell may be long gone by then given the anger he feels towards the English Football Association in particular.
"I gave my heart and soul for the national team but the FA were not there for me when I had problems," he said. "Even after that, I still wanted to do something with the England setup, and they said they were interested, but the interest went cold. Suddenly, Gary Neville pops up as assistant manager. It's obvious they want nice people who won't cause them any problems. I put out an olive branch and it got broken, but whatever, I'm ready to move on."
Now to me it appears to be a load of nonsense, as there are apparently 92 professional clubs with 4 black managers, with 3.5% of the UK being black, that would mean that 3.5% of 92 is 3.22, so with 4, I don't think he can necessarily claim that.
Sounds like sour grapes to me, anyway I thought I'd post it before Roy does.
The ethnic minority population of the UK has nothing to do with it. Have a look at the racial breakdown of footballers compared to managers. Saying it's 'sour grapes' ignores a serious point. People don't really, seriously want to talk about racism in football. Just ignore the important issues about discrimination and oppression in this country, probably because it doesn't affect you
Forty odd years ago the number of black players in the British professional game could be counted on the fingers of one hand. That has grown in proportion with population growth.
The same will happen with managers. A team only has one manager but eleven players so it will inevitably take longer.
And this is because the game is racist, right? That's what you are saying. I'd agree with you, that seems to be the only explanation to me. Unless you have a different idea of why time is such a massive factor...
I don't think the game is racist per se although that doesn't exclude the possibility of isolated incidents of racism as in any other walk of life.
Our own Chris Powell, Brendan Batson and Clark Carlisle have all risen to high prominence within the PFA for instance. That doesn't suggest a racist game to me.
Chris Powell and others have said that not enough former black players have attempted to gain coaching badges and get into management although that will hopefully change now as more black players have come into and retired from the game.
There are 92 managerial posts and if more white blokes apply than black blokes then the greater the probability a white bloke will get the job.
Sol Campbell, the former England and Arsenal defender, believes he will have to move abroad to fulfil his ambitions of becoming a coach due to racial prejudices that exist in this country, describing attitudes to black footballers here as "archaic".
Campbell, who won 73 caps for his country, two Premier League titles with Arsenal and at his prime was recognised as being among the finest central defenders in the world, is currently working towards gaining the qualifications required to become a coach or manager across Europe having retired following a 19-year playing career in May 2012. From start to finish, the process is likely to take three years and Campbell believes that upon completion he will have to leave Britain to begin his new career.
"I want to start abroad," said the 39-year-old in an exclusive interview with the Guardian. "There are no opportunities for me here, not until attitudes change anyway. Everyone has to ask themselves why there are not more black managers in this country and why the likes of [former Sheffield United striker] Brian Deane have to go abroad [to Sarpsborg 08 in Norway] to get a chance. I've spoken to other black players who want to coach and they feel the same, that attitudes here are archaic. I hope and pray the environment changes."
Campbell's assertion is backed up by the paucity of black managers currently working in England, with only four – Chris Hughton, Chris Powell, Paul Ince and Chris Kiwomya – employed among the country's 92 professional clubs. There may well be vast improvements should the Professional Footballers Association and Football League's plans to introduce an equivalent of the "Rooney Rule" – which requires NFL teams in America to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head-coach roles – go ahead. However, Campbell may be long gone by then given the anger he feels towards the English Football Association in particular.
"I gave my heart and soul for the national team but the FA were not there for me when I had problems," he said. "Even after that, I still wanted to do something with the England setup, and they said they were interested, but the interest went cold. Suddenly, Gary Neville pops up as assistant manager. It's obvious they want nice people who won't cause them any problems. I put out an olive branch and it got broken, but whatever, I'm ready to move on."
Now to me it appears to be a load of nonsense, as there are apparently 92 professional clubs with 4 black managers, with 3.5% of the UK being black, that would mean that 3.5% of 92 is 3.22, so with 4, I don't think he can necessarily claim that.
Sounds like sour grapes to me, anyway I thought I'd post it before Roy does.
The ethnic minority population of the UK has nothing to do with it. Have a look at the racial breakdown of footballers compared to managers. Saying it's 'sour grapes' ignores a serious point. People don't really, seriously want to talk about racism in football. Just ignore the important issues about discrimination and oppression in this country, probably because it doesn't affect you
Forty odd years ago the number of black players in the British professional game could be counted on the fingers of one hand. That has grown in proportion with population growth.
The same will happen with managers. A team only has one manager but eleven players so it will inevitably take longer.
And this is because the game is racist, right? That's what you are saying. I'd agree with you, that seems to be the only explanation to me. Unless you have a different idea of why time is such a massive factor...
I don't think the game is racist per se although that doesn't exclude the possibility of isolated incidents of racism as in any other walk of life.
Our own Chris Powell, Brendan Batson and Clark Carlisle have all risen to high prominence within the PFA for instance. That doesn't suggest a racist game to me.
Chris Powell and others have said that not enough former black players have attempted to gain coaching badges and get into management although that will hopefully change now as more black players have come into and retired from the game.
There are 92 managerial posts and if more white blokes apply than black blokes then the greater the probability a white bloke will get the job.
That's statistics not racism.
Stop lettin the facts get in the way of a good old race related argument!
I genuinely believe that the vast majority of people don't care what colour your skin is anymore, but there is a minority of people, and I would argue as many white as there are black who do still care about the colour of your skin and judge you on it.
The only thing that's racist is Sol Campbell's attitude
Cheers for only leaving it four minutes.
Not bothered reading the whole thread just giving my opinion if England are racist how come Ince was made captain for a while or did Sol not acknowledge this.
i would think that any one fan/player who likes his football regardless of their skin pigment would like the opportunities that Sol Campball had and continues to have.
Book to promote---plays race card --- meh zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
If Ince can be captain than skin colour isn't an issue. Furthermore if someone with Ince's character can be captain, then what does that say about Campbell's character?!
If Ince can be captain than skin colour isn't an issue. Furthermore if someone with Ince's character can be captain, then what does that say about Campbell's character?!
Isn't the most recent story about Tottenham anyway? Don't understand why the England captaincy has been brought up.
If Ince can be captain than skin colour isn't an issue. Furthermore if someone with Ince's character can be captain, then what does that say about Campbell's character?!
Isn't the most recent story about Tottenham anyway? Don't understand why the England captaincy has been brought up.
Heard an interview with Gary Neville shortly after the story regarding Campbell not getting managerial opportunities where, although he didn't name Campbell directly, he said that too many players who have now retired and had a few years away from the game on a decent payday and now want to get back into the game and are expecting jobs to just fall on their lap as if they deserve it.
This latest drivel just increases the dislike for Campbell that he is clearly a deeply jealous man who wants excuses rather than accept people work harder than him and/or players were better captain material than him. Personally I don't think much of a captain who would go to their fiercest rivals for free to get 100k a week.
If Ince can be captain than skin colour isn't an issue. Furthermore if someone with Ince's character can be captain, then what does that say about Campbell's character?!
Isn't the most recent story about Tottenham anyway? Don't understand why the England captaincy has been brought up.
I thought he was Spurs captain?
Sorry, completely missed that story.
He said something about Sherwood stealing the captaincy from him in another paper today. Clearly creating stories for his new book.
Leroy has considered this situation. And breaks it down thus.
1 - The overall population of the country may only be 3% black, but the players that make up the football 'industry' (from whence the vast majority of football managers are recruited) have a far higher percentage of blacks. This has been the case for at least twenty years and, with the exceptionally high turnover rate in the industry, enough time has passed for the change in attitude that has been prevalent in society over that time to have filtered down to football. This indicates there may be a valid point to look at (arguments from hand wringing liberals and knuckle dragging troglodytes notwithstanding)
2 - The Rooney Rule has actually been a success in the NFL - to the point that it's no longer even discussed by anyone outside Fox News. Black coaches are now far more prominent than previously, and no-one cares about ethnicity any more (whereas a black coach 30 years ago raised eyebrows and pulses alike)
3 - Neither of these points, despite being obvious to anyone possessed of intelligence in excess of that of pine furniture will prevent this thread from descending into a pathetic free for all as those with their own agendas to push and too much time on their hands engage in futile oneupmanship and childish point scoring
4 - Sol Campbell is an arrogant, self-aggrandising, facetious prick.
Here endeth the lesson. Go in peace. Amen.
Quite, race has nothing to do with one's ability to be an arrogant self-aggrandising prick.
Personally I think Sol Campbell is doing the whole issue a great disservice. Race had absolutely nothing to do with whether he was England captain or not. When he made his debut, Shearer was the incumbent captain. Shearer's successor was David Beckham, who was succeeded by John Terry. Would anyone here seriously put Sol Campbell ahead of any of those?
His whole argument - which clearly is motivated by book sales - is undone by the fact that both Paul Ince and Rio Ferdinand wore the armband during his England career.
I agree that the days when people couldn't see beyond skin colour are long behind us, even if there are some idiots who insist on living in ignorance. There is a demographic argument that's valid here, just as there is in business, that players rise to be managers and proportions of managers reflects yesterday's proportions of players, not today's.
Equally I'm quite sure Paul Ince lost his job at Blackpool for reasons other than his skin colour, and it would at best be missing the point to keep him in a job simply because he is black. Or Hughton. Or even Chris Powell.
However, we mustn't be complacent either. There does seem to be a disproportionate shortfall of black coaches and managers. The reasons, I'm sure, are a lot more complex than the simplistic view it must be racism, but equally just because most of us here don't think in a racist way doesn't mean that it's not a factor and we should be open to that if we're not to miss something important to address.
Incidentally I think the Rooney Rule is a red herring. The USA has a very different and ingrained problem with racism. Despite what people would have you believe, the UK is one of the most racially and culturally tolerant nations on earth. The USA, whilst being a melting pot in its own way, still has some deep cultural and historical challenges to overcome that are very different to the ones we've had to face. I don't think, for example, very many people here would raise eyebrows at the appointment of a black football manager.
Yeah, but then I think before all the crap came out Terry was an obvious choice. And certainly at the time ahead of Campbell.
We probably forget how important Campbell was to England when he was at his very best. But not sure I'd ever have thought him England captain material.
Campbell was always the other centre back though. First it was Adams, then Ferdinand, then Terry. All were more likely to be captain. That's ignoring Beckham, Pearce, Platt, Ince, Shearer and Neville in other positions.
I will be honest, with some of the crap he's coming up with nowadays he is at the best an idiot, or at worst deliberately trying to stir up some sort of controversy... which will sell his book for sure, but race and football still aren't a totally safe mix despite massive leaps forward (look at the Wednesday twat spouting racist crap about our own Chris Powell, and the abuse Haynes got at Milwall.)
But you will never, ever rid football of racism in the stands completely because you will never eradicate it completely in society and a football crowd is just a reflection of society.
And I don't think the sheff wed twat can be labelled as 'racism in football' - was more than likely a silly kid making a silly comment behind the 'safety' of his computer.
Comments
If not and, God forbid, they picked someone else over him, would that make them racist too?
1 - The overall population of the country may only be 3% black, but the players that make up the football 'industry' (from whence the vast majority of football managers are recruited) have a far higher percentage of blacks. This has been the case for at least twenty years and, with the exceptionally high turnover rate in the industry, enough time has passed for the change in attitude that has been prevalent in society over that time to have filtered down to football. This indicates there may be a valid point to look at (arguments from hand wringing liberals and knuckle dragging troglodytes notwithstanding)
2 - The Rooney Rule has actually been a success in the NFL - to the point that it's no longer even discussed by anyone outside Fox News. Black coaches are now far more prominent than previously, and no-one cares about ethnicity any more (whereas a black coach 30 years ago raised eyebrows and pulses alike)
3 - Neither of these points, despite being obvious to anyone possessed of intelligence in excess of that of pine furniture will prevent this thread from descending into a pathetic free for all as those with their own agendas to push and too much time on their hands engage in futile oneupmanship and childish point scoring
4 - Sol Campbell is an arrogant, self-aggrandising, facetious prick.
Here endeth the lesson. Go in peace. Amen.
Sure, Sol might be a bit mistaken in this case, but lets not kid ourselves thinking racism has been completely eradicated from the game. The amount of black (or any minority) managers and coaches compared to players is one indication alone.
Our own Chris Powell, Brendan Batson and Clark Carlisle have all risen to high prominence within the PFA for instance. That doesn't suggest a racist game to me.
Chris Powell and others have said that not enough former black players have attempted to gain coaching badges and get into management although that will hopefully change now as more black players have come into and retired from the game.
There are 92 managerial posts and if more white blokes apply than black blokes then the greater the probability a white bloke will get the job.
That's statistics not racism.
I genuinely believe that the vast majority of people don't care what colour your skin is anymore, but there is a minority of people, and I would argue as many white as there are black who do still care about the colour of your skin and judge you on it.
The fact is it is a tiny minority
Book to promote---plays race card --- meh zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
If Ince can be captain than skin colour isn't an issue. Furthermore if someone with Ince's character can be captain, then what does that say about Campbell's character?!
I thought he was Spurs captain?
This latest drivel just increases the dislike for Campbell that he is clearly a deeply jealous man who wants excuses rather than accept people work harder than him and/or players were better captain material than him. Personally I don't think much of a captain who would go to their fiercest rivals for free to get 100k a week.
A very sad man.
He said something about Sherwood stealing the captaincy from him in another paper today. Clearly creating stories for his new book.
Personally I think Sol Campbell is doing the whole issue a great disservice. Race had absolutely nothing to do with whether he was England captain or not. When he made his debut, Shearer was the incumbent captain. Shearer's successor was David Beckham, who was succeeded by John Terry. Would anyone here seriously put Sol Campbell ahead of any of those?
His whole argument - which clearly is motivated by book sales - is undone by the fact that both Paul Ince and Rio Ferdinand wore the armband during his England career.
I agree that the days when people couldn't see beyond skin colour are long behind us, even if there are some idiots who insist on living in ignorance. There is a demographic argument that's valid here, just as there is in business, that players rise to be managers and proportions of managers reflects yesterday's proportions of players, not today's.
Equally I'm quite sure Paul Ince lost his job at Blackpool for reasons other than his skin colour, and it would at best be missing the point to keep him in a job simply because he is black. Or Hughton. Or even Chris Powell.
However, we mustn't be complacent either. There does seem to be a disproportionate shortfall of black coaches and managers. The reasons, I'm sure, are a lot more complex than the simplistic view it must be racism, but equally just because most of us here don't think in a racist way doesn't mean that it's not a factor and we should be open to that if we're not to miss something important to address.
Incidentally I think the Rooney Rule is a red herring. The USA has a very different and ingrained problem with racism. Despite what people would have you believe, the UK is one of the most racially and culturally tolerant nations on earth. The USA, whilst being a melting pot in its own way, still has some deep cultural and historical challenges to overcome that are very different to the ones we've had to face. I don't think, for example, very many people here would raise eyebrows at the appointment of a black football manager.
We probably forget how important Campbell was to England when he was at his very best. But not sure I'd ever have thought him England captain material.
If he does, bless him he's misguided. If he doesn't then he really is a long range of expletives.
Billy Wright
Bobby Moore
Kevin Keegan
Bryan Robson
David Beckham
Sorry Sol, you just don't have it.
...got no idea where they could have got that idea from.
Anyhow...
And I don't think the sheff wed twat can be labelled as 'racism in football' - was more than likely a silly kid making a silly comment behind the 'safety' of his computer.