It is with great regret that I have come round to the fact that we need a change to have any chance of retaining our Championship status. Powell, for me, has lost it, Pritchard being played just behind Kermy please, what a disastrous move. Too much tinkering every match with the formations and personnel. Just play your best team Chris, try and impose ourselves on the opposition. He is a lovely man and a Charlton legend, but it is imperative that we retain our Championship status and I can't see it happening under Mr Powell.
What is Charltons best 11, from the squad as it is what team would you have put out on Saturday. I feel Chris is making more mistakes with substitutions this season, but that could be because the first team squad is weaker than last season.
IF the current owners are here come June I think CP will be dispensed of if only because they will be able to get someone in on cheaper wages without the need of paying compensation to CP. That is the only thing saving CP at the moment in my opinion.
IF the current owners are here come June I think CP will be dispensed of if only because they will be able to get someone in on cheaper wages without the need of paying compensation to CP. That is the only thing saving CP at the moment in my opinion.
IF the current owners are here come June I think CP will be dispensed of if only because they will be able to get someone in on cheaper wages without the need of paying compensation to CP. That is the only thing saving CP at the moment in my opinion.
Apparently, you can't get much lower than CP's wages. Still, maybe we can get someone in on work experience.
I couldn't friggin care if Derby played 4-5-1, 4-3-3 or even 6-3-1..........to start a home game with Pritchard in a role that he is totally unsuitable for is just plain wrong - just like playing JJ there instead would have also been a mistake. Pritchard has pace but no composure if front of goal and is too lightweight to boot. JJ is probably our best finisher but hasn't got the pace to play off a "target man".
Just out of interest , I wonder when some people would call for a change ?? If against Sheff W CP decides to play Dervite up front instead ?? or dispenses with Kermy and packs 6 across the middle ??
I know this wont happen but just saying. yesterday for me was the thin end of the wedge. I really don't care what other teams do - why not let them worry about us for a change ?? What would McLaren have done if we had gone with Yann, Church & Sordell and gone for it ???
Put simply, when he's backed in the transfer market and - given time - fails to deliver. And I think he's earned that, because when he was backed he produced a Charlton team that broke more records than any preceding it.
There were similar noises about him last season before his team smashed 5 past the eventual title winners and ultimately ended up top ten, way beyond our wildest expectations. There is so little evidence that football's crazy approach to firing managers left right and centre actually benefits the clubs long term - 4 of the 5 Prem clubs who have dispensed of their manager remain in the bottom 5. Did Sunderland sacking O'Neill work out for them? Reading sacking MacDermott? How are Fulham and Stoke looking right now? How did sacking Warnock help QPR?
The best examples are those with patience and build slowly year-on-year, and we of all clubs should recognise that. Our best three managers, Jimmy Seed, Lennie Lawrence and Alan Curbishley, have managed Charlton for half its existence, give or take. That's really no coincidence. Obviously the best managers don't get sacked, but even so Curbishley had his best years after relegation.
IF the current owners are here come June I think CP will be dispensed of if only because they will be able to get someone in on cheaper wages without the need of paying compensation to CP. That is the only thing saving CP at the moment in my opinion.
Apparently, you can't get much lower than CP's wages. Still, maybe we can get someone in on work experience.
My sons looking for work experience at the moment, even he doesn't fancy this gig.
Which doesn't necessarily mean 93 per cent think he's doing a grand job, of course.
A considerable section of that 93 per cent may simply have taken the pragmatic view that it would almost certainly be worse under someone else in the present circumstances of instability and financial neglect.
If new owners came in with money and ambition and were prepared to pay top dollar for a world-class manager whom they promised to back with multi-million signings in January, I might feel very differently.
He obviously hasn't been allowed to strengthen the squad as he had wished. However...
This phrase is the one I use to describe Charlton supporters' attitudes towards SCP, almost word-for-word. My attitude is, if you believe the first half, there is no 'but' or 'however'.
realistically looking at a few of our future fixtures
Bolton A - lose Brighton H - Lose Massive H - Win Ipswich A - Draw
That takes us into January, Im sure most can agree that the above predictions are on the positive side.
That will leave us 22 points from 24 games (over half the season). That is relegation material!!
So where do we draw the line? How deep in the mire do we need to get before a change has to come?
But you have already decided he should go so why ask the question? That's fair enough but what if we get 7 or 10 points? Will you then change your mind?
But what is the change?? That's the single most important part of the whole discussion. If you destabilise the club you'd better have a way of improving it lined up from minute one. Yet no-one seems able to suggest any better managers, and there's been little talk of managers who are good enough and affordable. The only names I've seen so far are Holloway and Warnock, who were suggested on the basis that Powell is a poor tactician, which is so ironic I'm pretty sure it must have been a joke
Henry - as I've said before, I would love CP to be the man to take us forward as that would be a fairytale. But what we have seen and continue to see each week does not constitute progression. Everybody has their own opinion of when enough is enough, and yes I now have both feet over that line. What I am asking is, all the people with 100% support, where is that line for you? When does your confidence in the man start to wain? 5 more defeats? 10 more defeats? relagation at end of season? How long do we have to stagnate for before you want to see a change? I would love for us to get 7 points. Do you think that is realistically achievable? also, that would still only give us 25 points and would still be relegation form. we spoke earlier on this thread about the investment levels of similar clubs and you pointed out that Donny have invested (Macheda loan) and others at other clubs. I would highlight to you that we have Stewart on loan from a PL club and Sordell (an Eng U21 player) on loan, that is also some investment. Im sure these 2 players most cost equal or greater than Donnys fee for Macheda.
love or hate Warnock,but I would say he is a proven championship manager,would still hope Chris can save us but Warnock I think would at least keep us up
With what SCP has done for us as a manager** , 101 pts pissing League One and 9th place finish in the Championship last year (which was a miracle, even I called that wrong) is where he has earnt himself breathing space. So on that basis and the fact he hasn't been properly backed since the League One squad was established I believe he has until January 2015 to see where we're at
**and if it was Phil Parkinson-Neil Warnock-Iain Dowie- TerryFuctardCharltonfan-whoever had achieved what SCP has as our manager , that is the time I would give them
I doubt very much that Hull or Bolton players earn as much as Man Utd players even combined. I also doubt that we are paying all of their wages. Why do you think Bolton let Sordell go to a rival?
Powell said that he wanted Machada in the summer but he didn't come. ££££££ again. He wanted to keep Fuller but as Ince said he couldn't unless there was a takeover. ££££££ again.
Donny also got Theo Robinson for an estimated £150k. not a huge fee but £150k more than Powell was able to spend this summer. ££££££ again.
But as you used Donny as an example what has Dickov actually done? Did he get them promoted as Powell did with CAFC? No, that was Brian Flynn.
So far he's got them into the bottom six. Not terrible for a Club like Donny but hardly fantastic stuff. And we played them off the park three weeks ago. Yet you suggest that Dickov would be a better option than Powell. Why?
I agree that the Club is stagnating and I do want to see a change. The big difference is that I see Powell as a victim of that stagnation not the cause.
The board won't sack him as they can't afford to pay him and his staff off or to attract anyone better than the likes of Gary Megson.
And frankly I don't think they care who the manager is anymore. They just want to get out and I sincerely hope they get their wish ASAP.
If Powell had not played all those games for us we would not be having this debate.
The fans would have turned by now. I am glad that the fans haven't but there is only so long people can blame the board, the players, the pitch, the contracts etc
As earlier stated Chris Powell has played pro football all his life, been involved in the premier league, international games, assisted under a former international manager so therefore knows so much more than you or I do about tactics and football. Fine. I agree. Now don't use the 'he's an inexperienced manager' line. It doesn't stand up.
Not being able to strengthen is also not an excuse, so there are four teams with a lower budget than us? There are only three teams below us in the league. We have loaned a premier league player and an England u21 international.
4 wins from 20. 2 from 10 @ home. I don't go away but bar leicester and Donny I think we have been pitiful at home. A clear lack of tactical nous, class, game plan has been obvious for all to see. How many times this year have we not even created a good chance at home? We have scored the least amount of goals in our league. Do Yeovil, Doncaster, Barnsley and Bournemouth all have a collectively better midfield and attack than us? I doubt it.
Believe it or not I want Chris Powell to succeed but there is no point in having 100% blind faith if it's not working.
I agree there is no-one better who could take us on that immediately springs to mind but who's to say there isn't someone out there? I don't think many saints fans were calling for Adkins to go and pochettino to come in and it hasn't worked out too bad for them.
Sadly bugger all is going to happen until we are taken over or admin and some one else come in and either gives Powell a massive wedge or a thank you and goodbye
Why do you think Bolton let Sordell go to a rival? Do you really see us as a rival to Bolton? Or do you believe they really see us as a rival? as you used Donny as an example what has Dickov actually done? He has got 2 more home wins than CP has with us. Plus Donny are above us. Yet you suggest that Dickov would be a better option than Powell. Why? I don't recall ever saying this!
I hope they manage to sell soon too, but as time goes by and bid after bid falls by the way side, its looking less and less likely it will be anytime soon. Henry, you also didn't answer my question. Where is your line? When will you start to question your support of CP?
With what SCP has done for us as a manager** , 101 pts pissing League One and 9th place finish in the Championship last year (which was a miracle, even I called that wrong) is where he has earnt himself breathing space. So on that basis and the fact he hasn't been properly backed since the League One squad was established I believe he has until January 2015 to see where we're at
**and if it was Phil Parkinson-Neil Warnock-Iain Dowie- TerryFuctardCharltonfan-whoever had achieved what SCP has as our manager , that is the time I would give them
I respect the fact that you wish to give CP that time and also that you would support any manager in the same position likewise. My point would be that by JAN 2015, we may have been relegated, lost half our squad and in mid table of league 1 playing catchup after a 10pt deduction due to entering administration. Do you not then feel that your support over all that time was wasted? As we would be in the exact same position we were in when CP took over.
Very little benefit achieving something today if you undo it all tomorrow. Why not try to change things now in the hope that the promotion and record points haul isn't for nothing.
love or hate Warnock,but I would say he is a proven championship manager,would still hope Chris can save us but Warnock I think would at least keep us up
Let's presume that this is the correct answer (even though it isn't) and that Neil Warnock would definitely save our season. How are you going to attract him to come to Charlton, considering he's used to wages three or four times higher than what Powell gets paid, he'd have absolutely no money to spend on players and all of the squad he inherits are out of contract in the summer, meaning he can't raise money by selling some of them and they're all demoralised because they don't know what their future is.
Serious question - how would you attract Warnock to the club against that background? Seems just a touch unrealistic to me, not that I'd want him anyway.
Why do you think Bolton let Sordell go to a rival? Do you really see us as a rival to Bolton? Or do you believe they really see us as a rival? as you used Donny as an example what has Dickov actually done? He has got 2 more home wins than CP has with us. Plus Donny are above us. Yet you suggest that Dickov would be a better option than Powell. Why? I don't recall ever saying this!
I hope they manage to sell soon too, but as time goes by and bid after bid falls by the way side, its looking less and less likely it will be anytime soon. Henry, you also didn't answer my question. Where is your line? When will you start to question your support of CP?
You listed dickov as someone who'd done a better job than Powell. And in the league table so far he has inherited a successful, newly promoted side and been able to spend to add new strikers.
I don't accept the basis of the question "where is your line?" You have already made up your mind and are now looking for examples from other clubs to "prove" yourself right so for you there is no line. Same with me.
The problem is and remains the lack of funding at all levels and areas of the club. And I and a few others have been saying that there is a problem we needed to be concerned about since the summer before last. This is not to defend Powell as I don't think he needs to be defended now any more than when he got the team to finish 9th last season.
Love how people keep calling Stewart a Premier League footballer, I don't think he's played one game in the PL and was loaned out a couple of times by Hull in the Championship.
Which doesn't necessarily mean 93 per cent think he's doing a grand job, of course.
A considerable section of that 93 per cent may simply have taken the pragmatic view that it would almost certainly be worse under someone else in the present circumstances of instability and financial neglect.
If new owners came in with money and ambition and were prepared to pay top dollar for a world-class manager whom they promised to back with multi-million signings in January, I might feel very differently.
But that's not where we are currently at, is it?
@danhughes99 This post sums it up for me but instead of keeping on wanting to know the ins and outs of a cats a*se behind peoples reasoning, why don't you offer up an alternative solution if you want him gone yesterday assuming you have some funds to part with and then the 93% might be prepared to change their minds.
Why do you think Bolton let Sordell go to a rival? Do you really see us as a rival to Bolton? Or do you believe they really see us as a rival? as you used Donny as an example what has Dickov actually done? He has got 2 more home wins than CP has with us. Plus Donny are above us. Yet you suggest that Dickov would be a better option than Powell. Why? I don't recall ever saying this!
I hope they manage to sell soon too, but as time goes by and bid after bid falls by the way side, its looking less and less likely it will be anytime soon. Henry, you also didn't answer my question. Where is your line? When will you start to question your support of CP?
You listed dickov as someone who'd done a better job than Powell. And in the league table so far he has inherited a successful, newly promoted side and been able to spend to add new strikers.
I don't accept the basis of the question "where is your line?" You have already made up your mind and are now looking for examples from other clubs to "prove" yourself right so for you there is no line. Same with me.
The problem is and remains the lack of funding at all levels and areas of the club. And I and a few others have been saying that there is a problem we needed to be concerned about since the summer before last. This is not to defend Powell as I don't think he needs to be defended now any more than when he got the team to finish 9th last season.
You imply that I went into this season against CP. that's not right! I have made my mind up after a points return of 7 from 21 and only 18 from 20 games. As I have stated before, that is relegation form. Now I don't wish for our team to be relegated and as I am not seeing any change in form evident as we make the same mistakes week in week out, that is why I would like to see us change.
So your telling me that if were -bottom by new year - your 100% behind Powell - were relegated in march - your 100% behind Powell - we lose the first 15 games in league 1 next season - your 100% behind Powell
I refuse to believe that. There comes a time were even the most avid of followers lose faith in the powers that be. So to say you don't have a line in rubbish.
It seems a lot of people look at this subjectively, but it is a decision that must be made objectively. On facts and not opinions.
Comments
There were similar noises about him last season before his team smashed 5 past the eventual title winners and ultimately ended up top ten, way beyond our wildest expectations. There is so little evidence that football's crazy approach to firing managers left right and centre actually benefits the clubs long term - 4 of the 5 Prem clubs who have dispensed of their manager remain in the bottom 5. Did Sunderland sacking O'Neill work out for them? Reading sacking MacDermott? How are Fulham and Stoke looking right now? How did sacking Warnock help QPR?
The best examples are those with patience and build slowly year-on-year, and we of all clubs should recognise that. Our best three managers, Jimmy Seed, Lennie Lawrence and Alan Curbishley, have managed Charlton for half its existence, give or take. That's really no coincidence. Obviously the best managers don't get sacked, but even so Curbishley had his best years after relegation.
159 "LoLs".
A considerable section of that 93 per cent may simply have taken the pragmatic view that it would almost certainly be worse under someone else in the present circumstances of instability and financial neglect.
If new owners came in with money and ambition and were prepared to pay top dollar for a world-class manager whom they promised to back with multi-million signings in January, I might feel very differently.
But that's not where we are currently at, is it?
realistically looking at a few of our future fixtures
Bolton A - lose
Brighton H - Lose
Massive H - Win
Ipswich A - Draw
That takes us into January, Im sure most can agree that the above predictions are on the positive side.
That will leave us 22 points from 24 games (over half the season). That is relegation material!!
So where do we draw the line? How deep in the mire do we need to get before a change has to come?
Nothing will change until there is new money IMO
I would love for us to get 7 points. Do you think that is realistically achievable? also, that would still only give us 25 points and would still be relegation form.
we spoke earlier on this thread about the investment levels of similar clubs and you pointed out that Donny have invested (Macheda loan) and others at other clubs.
I would highlight to you that we have Stewart on loan from a PL club and Sordell (an Eng U21 player) on loan, that is also some investment. Im sure these 2 players most cost equal or greater than Donnys fee for Macheda.
So on that basis and the fact he hasn't been properly backed since the League One squad was established I believe he has until January 2015 to see where we're at
**and if it was Phil Parkinson-Neil Warnock-Iain Dowie- TerryFuctardCharltonfan-whoever had achieved what SCP has as our manager , that is the time I would give them
Powell said that he wanted Machada in the summer but he didn't come. ££££££ again. He wanted to keep Fuller but as Ince said he couldn't unless there was a takeover. ££££££ again.
Donny also got Theo Robinson for an estimated £150k. not a huge fee but £150k more than Powell was able to spend this summer. ££££££ again.
But as you used Donny as an example what has Dickov actually done? Did he get them promoted as Powell did with CAFC? No, that was Brian Flynn.
So far he's got them into the bottom six. Not terrible for a Club like Donny but hardly fantastic stuff. And we played them off the park three weeks ago. Yet you suggest that Dickov would be a better option than Powell. Why?
I agree that the Club is stagnating and I do want to see a change. The big difference is that I see Powell as a victim of that stagnation not the cause.
The board won't sack him as they can't afford to pay him and his staff off or to attract anyone better than the likes of Gary Megson.
And frankly I don't think they care who the manager is anymore. They just want to get out and I sincerely hope they get their wish ASAP.
The fans would have turned by now. I am glad that the fans haven't but there is only so long people can blame the board, the players, the pitch, the contracts etc
As earlier stated Chris Powell has played pro football all his life, been involved in the premier league, international games, assisted under a former international manager so therefore knows so much more than you or I do about tactics and football. Fine. I agree. Now don't use the 'he's an inexperienced manager' line. It doesn't stand up.
Not being able to strengthen is also not an excuse, so there are four teams with a lower budget than us? There are only three teams below us in the league. We have loaned a premier league player and an England u21 international.
4 wins from 20. 2 from 10 @ home. I don't go away but bar leicester and Donny I think we have been pitiful at home. A clear lack of tactical nous, class, game plan has been obvious for all to see. How many times this year have we not even created a good chance at home? We have scored the least amount of goals in our league. Do Yeovil, Doncaster, Barnsley and Bournemouth all have a collectively better midfield and attack than us? I doubt it.
Believe it or not I want Chris Powell to succeed but there is no point in having 100% blind faith if it's not working.
I agree there is no-one better who could take us on that immediately springs to mind but who's to say there isn't someone out there? I don't think many saints fans were calling for Adkins to go and pochettino to come in and it hasn't worked out too bad for them.
Sadly bugger all is going to happen until we are taken over or admin and some one else come in and either gives Powell a massive wedge or a thank you and goodbye
Do you really see us as a rival to Bolton? Or do you believe they really see us as a rival?
as you used Donny as an example what has Dickov actually done?
He has got 2 more home wins than CP has with us. Plus Donny are above us.
Yet you suggest that Dickov would be a better option than Powell. Why?
I don't recall ever saying this!
I hope they manage to sell soon too, but as time goes by and bid after bid falls by the way side, its looking less and less likely it will be anytime soon.
Henry, you also didn't answer my question. Where is your line? When will you start to question your support of CP?
Very little benefit achieving something today if you undo it all tomorrow. Why not try to change things now in the hope that the promotion and record points haul isn't for nothing.
Serious question - how would you attract Warnock to the club against that background? Seems just a touch unrealistic to me, not that I'd want him anyway.
I don't accept the basis of the question "where is your line?" You have already made up your mind and are now looking for examples from other clubs to "prove" yourself right so for you there is no line. Same with me.
The problem is and remains the lack of funding at all levels and areas of the club. And I and a few others have been saying that there is a problem we needed to be concerned about since the summer before last. This is not to defend Powell as I don't think he needs to be defended now any more than when he got the team to finish 9th last season.
I have made my mind up after a points return of 7 from 21 and only 18 from 20 games. As I have stated before, that is relegation form. Now I don't wish for our team to be relegated and as I am not seeing any change in form evident as we make the same mistakes week in week out, that is why I would like to see us change.
So your telling me that if were
-bottom by new year - your 100% behind Powell
- were relegated in march - your 100% behind Powell
- we lose the first 15 games in league 1 next season - your 100% behind Powell
I refuse to believe that. There comes a time were even the most avid of followers lose faith in the powers that be. So to say you don't have a line in rubbish.
It seems a lot of people look at this subjectively, but it is a decision that must be made objectively. On facts and not opinions.