Can so much nonsense have ever been written about a player few of us have even seen? Talk about making a bloke feel welcome. None of us know the actual fee (reported as Euro700k) or more crucially how such fee was to be paid. We have even less idea how much he is being paid.
We do know De Graafschap are struggling financially and that their local press suggested PP was out of contract at the end of the season.
I refer the honourable gentlemen (and ladies) to my comments of Feb 23 on the earlier thread.
He did go to Portugal to join Benfica and local press in Nantes did have him lined up to join them on a 4yr deal. I have absolutely no idea whether he is the answer to our current challenges or if he is a complete duffer - because I have not seen him play.
Is he a target man? Does he run the channels? Does he play off the last defender? Does he have pace? Is he good in the air? Does he rely on crosses in the box? Is he simply an "in the box" finisher? NONE OF US have a "friggin" clue.
I can but repeat when he was approached by the club about joining for NEXT season HE asked whether he could come now, because he wanted to sort out his future and give himself time to acclimatise.
We have one new forward trying to adjust to the league and yet to find his feet (Reza) and we are trying to develop a different pattern of play, which may or may not suit his (PP) style of play. It is a big ask even for an experienced player. Putting another inexperienced young player into the mix maybe, for Powell, is a challenge too far.
Which is one reason we now have Tudgay.
Against Sheff Wed. we had Fox, Cousins, Poyet, Harriott - 4 players 20 or under. Look at the difference in the marks people then gave Harriott against Leicester. The difference is typical of a side relying on young players learning their trade at a senior level. Performances will be inconsistent, sometimes dramatically so, as different sides present different challenges.
Things that work one week don't the next you have to understand why and learn to adjust to the next challenge. It can be a very steep learning curve.
If people have created an expectation the lad was going to be our saviour this season then then they have only themselves to blame. It was bad enough people creating unrealistic expectations for youngsters starting out in the profession when they HAVE SEEN them play now we create an expectation BEFORE we have seen them play and lambast them as crap without them kicking a ball in anger.
Utter, utter nonsense - those "Football Manager" games have a lot to answer for.
Big clubs scoop up lots of promising youngsters, and often loan them out again, as they can afford to take a chance. We don't have that luxury, and while Reza and Piotr may not be ready for English football, they aren't going to get acclimatised playing the occasional U-21 game, and sitting in the stands. Sordell was brought up in the English game, but he's been ineffective for us, Church works hard but is hardly any better. Tudgay isn't matchfit as he's hardly played this season, whereas Piotr has got 16 in 20 games.
Can so much nonsense have ever been written about a player few of us have even seen? Talk about making a bloke feel welcome. None of us know the actual fee (reported as Euro700k) or more crucially how such fee was to be paid. We have even less idea how much he is being paid.
We do know De Graafschap are struggling financially and that their local press suggested PP was out of contract at the end of the season.
I refer the honourable gentlemen (and ladies) to my comments of Feb 23 on the earlier thread.
He did go to Portugal to join Benfica and local press in Nantes did have him lined up to join them on a 4yr deal. I have absolutely no idea whether he is the answer to our current challenges or if he is a complete duffer - because I have not seen him play.
Is he a target man? Does he run the channels? Does he play off the last defender? Does he have pace? Is he good in the air? Does he rely on crosses in the box? Is he simply an "in the box" finisher? NONE OF US have a "friggin" clue.
I can but repeat when he was approached by the club about joining for NEXT season HE asked whether he could come now, because he wanted to sort out his future and give himself time to acclimatise.
We have one new forward trying to adjust to the league and yet to find his feet (Reza) and we are trying to develop a different pattern of play, which may or may not suit his (PP) style of play. It is a big ask even for an experienced player. Putting another inexperienced young player into the mix maybe, for Powell, is a challenge too far.
Which is one reason we now have Tudgay.
Against Sheff Wed. we had Fox, Cousins, Poyet, Harriott - 4 players 20 or under. Look at the difference in the marks people then gave Harriott against Leicester. The difference is typical of a side relying on young players learning their trade at a senior level. Performances will be inconsistent, sometimes dramatically so, as different sides present different challenges.
Things that work one week don't the next you have to understand why and learn to adjust to the next challenge. It can be a very steep learning curve.
If people have created an expectation the lad was going to be our saviour this season then then they have only themselves to blame. It was bad enough people creating unrealistic expectations for youngsters starting out in the profession when they HAVE SEEN them play now we create an expectation BEFORE we have seen them play and lambast them as crap without them kicking a ball in anger.
Utter, utter nonsense - those "Football Manager" games have a lot to answer for.
Took the words right out of my mouth....so much speculative nonsense here these days....everyone's a frigging expert and all based on hearsay
There is clearly something wrong here...Tudgay comes on as sub in front of Reza....That's an awful lot of wages and transfer fee not involved yesterday...
Don't forget that Reza has TWO midweek internationals to play in this week. One tonight and one on Wednesday. Clearly, a young player featuring in four games in 8 days, including travelling to Iran, was just not going to happen.
All this just goes back to the fact that we haven't strengthened the current squad though, doesn't it? Players who might be useful in the medium or long term were not the priority in January. We brought in six players in January and moved out four. These changes have left us weaker than before, because five of the six aren't playing, whereas three of the four were. That much we know. Take all the politics and personalities out of it and it's still bizarre.
All this just goes back to the fact that we haven't strengthened the current squad though, doesn't it? Players who might be useful in the medium or long term were not the priority in January. We brought in six players in January and moved out four. These changes have left us weaker than before, because five of the six aren't playing, whereas three of the four were. That much we know. Take all the politics and personalities out of it and it's still bizarre.
Spot on, this sums it up for me. As AFKA has said on another thread it is a very "limp" effort to avoid relegation.
I don't think for a minute a kid who was scoring goals in a level of football that equates to the conference or below was bought for this season, but the football manager games seem to have reared a new generation of fans who can't detach reality from fantasy.
It does, however, as Airman points out, lead to suspicion that something odd is going on. Any fool could tell that when he bought the shysters out we needed about five players who could contribute there and then. With the exception of AA (who is doing what Stephens was) and Reda (who is doing what Kermorgant was, but not as well) we didn't get that.
I suspect more and more that Duchatelet's master plan is to pay less for us by being relegated this year, then throwing a bit more cash at us, or loan players from SL/Alcorcon/FC Nobend of Latvia next season in what he will probably feel is a 'sure thing' of getting promoted. That's a worry, as getting out of division 3 is a damn sight harder than he thinks.
There is clearly something wrong here...Tudgay comes on as sub in front of Reza....That's an awful lot of wages and transfer fee not involved yesterday...
Don't forget that Reza has TWO midweek internationals to play in this week. One tonight and one on Wednesday. Clearly, a young player featuring in four games in 8 days, including travelling to Iran, was just not going to happen.
Well surely it would then be logical to play him against Leicester, then rest him next weekend in the cup AFTER his 2 internationals!
Our problem is we haven't scored enough goals, that's why we are in the bottom 3. If Church and Sordell are part of the problem, They're not part of the solution.
Our problem is we haven't scored enough goals, that's why we are in the bottom 3. If Church and Sordell are part of the problem, They're not part of the solution.
But what's the point of changing it for other players who aren't going to be part of the solution? Powell obviously knows that Sordell is pony, and doesn't think Parsley is ready yet. That's why we're stuck with Church and Reza. Hopefully Tudgay can make a difference.
Trouble is since Piotr has joined we've played Birmingham...Queens Park Rangers...Sheffield Wednesday...Leicester City and of course its just against Birmingham he's appeared.
Powell has seen what happened when he's put a youngster in a big game (Joe Pigott v Millwall) and has seen what it can do for confidence... Maybe he's felt that playing against those four clubs it could have done more harm than good playing him because we'd have to play so Defensive in the matches i.e.
Queens Park Rangers... They've got Dunne and Onouha as their Defence, he wouldnt win much against those two Sheffield Wednesday... We know what lumps they are Leicester City... Running away with the Division and in Moore have an England U21 Defender who was wanted by Fulham a few weeks ago.
Maybe when it comes to facing Sheffield United, Barnsley and Yeovil we will see Piotr because those clubs have the same passing style as us so it'll be an easier route into the First-Team for him rather than being thrown in the deep end of a swimming pool without arm bands.
Also its been mentioned on here that Piotr confirmed we firstly wanted him in the Summer yet it was him who asked to join now... How do we know Powell didnt turn round to him and say okay but be warned, I've just let Michael Smith leave the club because he wanted to play but I couldnt risk bloody a youngster what with us being in relegation trouble so I can give you match time but you'll probably need to wait till next season for some proper game time.
Trouble is since Piotr has joined we've played Birmingham...Queens Park Rangers...Sheffield Wednesday...Leicester City and of course its just against Birmingham he's appeared.
Powell has seen what happened when he's put a youngster in a big game (Joe Pigott v Millwall) and has seen what it can do for confidence... Maybe he's felt that playing against those four clubs it could have done more harm than good playing him because we'd have to play so Defensive in the matches i.e.
Queens Park Rangers... They've got Dunne and Onouha as their Defence, he wouldnt win much against those two Sheffield Wednesday... We know what lumps they are Leicester City... Running away with the Division and in Moore have an England U21 Defender who was wanted by Fulham a few weeks ago.
Maybe when it comes to facing Sheffield United, Barnsley and Yeovil we will see Piotr because those clubs have the same passing style as us so it'll be an easier route into the First-Team for him rather than being thrown in the deep end of a swimming pool without arm bands.
its been mentioned on here that Piotr confirmed we firstly wanted him in the Summer yet it was him who asked to join now... How do we know Powell didnt turn round to him and say okay but be warned, I've just let Michael Smith leave the club because he wanted to play but I couldnt risk bloody a youngster what with us being in relegation trouble so I can give you match time but you'll probably need to wait till next season for some proper game time.
In his arrival interview he said that we wanted to sign him in the summer at first but decided we needed him sooner to help out.
Was it really Charlton that were "after" Piotr in the summer or RD ? If the fee reported was not fantasy then there is no way that it was Charlton that were in for him. Or have I missed something ?
I understand that RD network were tracking him for two years. I think this is what Richard Murray means when he alluded to CAFC having the benefit of a European scouting network. Google "Standard Liege Ghana players" and you will see the type of player they are in touch with.
I understand and indeed share the concerns about the strength of the squad but that has little to do with insulting a young lad, who has just joined us, before he has kicked a ball in anger.
In terms of squad building I am afraid we are talking "chalk & cheese".
We can all view the current squad and endlessly speculate on how we might strengthen the current squad extrapolating the financial consequences of relegation.
We can see such strengthening as a priority but when you take over a business, the priority is actually to put a plan in place to balance the books especially a "distressed" business whose vendors for the previous 18 months could barely find the money to operationally fund it, let alone invest in its future.
Judging by many of the aspirations on here such strengthening does not come cheap.
When you consider at the time of take over there is a known finite exposure to fund the club until the end of the season on what basis is a new owner going substantially increase the clubs trading liabilities when its future income may shortly be notably reduced? Especially when the increase brings him no guarantee of any retention of existing revenue streams.
We know the January window is the most expensive time to invest in players. It is one of the most difficult times to assimilate multiple players into a senior squad and secure results (see Millwall with 8 new players). Most clubs, if they possibly can, avoid spending in January.
So how much capital do you commit to avoiding relegation?
Is it 1 player on say £5k a week? How long a contract 1yr? 2yr? 3yr? Is it 2 players? Is it 3 players?, Is it 4 players? Is £5k a week enough to attract the players you need? Is it £10kpw - Is it £12kpw? etc., etc.,- How many of the "right players" are going choose to be part of a relegation battle? Will securing such players guarantee we will not be relegated?
4 players on £10kpw for 3yrs adds £6mn to your contingent liabilities before any transfer or agent fees. All such investment based on 6 weeks assessment of playing staff & management. If we are then relegated we would have just added £2mn p.a. to the wage bill against a reduced income of circa £4mn. That is a recipe for administration.
So we turn to the loan market, where we know with the greatest respect, we will be dealing with players who have either not yet made it or who are effectively on their club reject list.
Best - joins Sheff Wed. because it is more local to his current home. Wright Phillips - sees no benefit in joining before pursuing a career in the MLS Williams - His club sees a better opportunity for the player playing in a play off scenario Guedioura - will likely return to Forest because he was successful when he played there before
The players available hardly inspire confidence they will be sufficient to guarantee Championship survival in the first place.
The bottom line is due to the strategy followed by the previous executive, which was at best to stand still, while desperately seeking someone to take over the debts, we are not an attractive proposition for players and agents. It will take time to turn that round. We are going to have to live with the consequences.
If the current management and staff can win the scramble for safety then we will be in a better position to move forward and they will have shown the qualities to be part of our future. It is a tough call but it is the hand they and the new owners have been dealt.
If they fail we will not be burdened with "additional operating" debt which would then restrict our ability to rebuild the squad for the future. There are no guarantees we could bounce back immediately but the cost of appropriate squad investment in L1 is likely to be significantly less.
I agree it is not a pretty picture but RD is an engineer and a technician. I doubt he was ever going to spend extravagantly at any age stage but certainly not until he has got the foundations right and certainly not to bolt on a "temporary solution" which may ultimately do very little in contributing to our long term future.
We have bought a young player with bags of potential for the future. What do people expect from the lad?
Well, a lot on here told us that he would start banging in the goals straight away and it would be "Yann who?" as a result.
That's not Pete's fault as the expectations were foisted upon him but regardless that was what many told us to expect from the lad.
It is all very well saying "he's for the future" but at the time we'd just sold our main striker and "replaced" him with PP. So I can understand why, and said it at the time, people think we swapped a bird in the hand for two in the bush.
Taking the lad out of the equation, we have sold Yann and brought in Reza and Tudgay - in addition to Church and Sordell. Now we can make a very strong case to say we would rather have kept Yann, but wrong to look at the lad as a replacement. He was clearly bought for the future and in the future, we are unlikely to be complaining if he comes good!
Taking the lad out of the equation, we have sold Yann and brought in Reza and Tudgay - in addition to Church and Sordell. Now we can make a very strong case to say we would rather have kept Yann, but wrong to look at the lad as a replacement. He was clearly bought for the future and in the future, we are unlikely to be complaining if he comes good!
I'm not complaining at all about him.
You asked "What do people expect from the lad" and I replied that some people expected him to replace Yann instantly.
We can't leave him out of the equation as 1. this is a thread about him 2. he was bought for what is a large fee for us so in fact meant another option or options weren't taken. Buying him in January meant we didn't buy someone else.
It's great that we are looking to the future and we MAY have a good player for next season. But we also needed a good player for this season. Reza hasn't done it yet and Tudgay came much later.
He was bought with RDs money I would imagine! And the profit will no doubt go in RDs pockets. I don't think buying him meant we didn't get a striker for the here and now in! We tried to get players and they didn't come off for whatever reason. I am merely saying that this could be an excellent acquisition, and maybe it is us who are at fault for having too high expectations of him in the short to immediate term.
I don't agree with us selling Yann - but am saying we shouldn't view this signing as a replacement!
The reason why people saw him as Yann's replacement, is that he's the only one of our strikers who can theoretically play the target man role. Reza and Tudgay aren't target man players, both are players who'd probably like to play off a target man. Sordell isn't a target man, and Church is hardly ideal at the role either.
All this just goes back to the fact that we haven't strengthened the current squad though, doesn't it? Players who might be useful in the medium or long term were not the priority in January. We brought in six players in January and moved out four. These changes have left us weaker than before, because five of the six aren't playing, whereas three of the four were. That much we know. Take all the politics and personalities out of it and it's still bizarre.
Still disagree , I would rather have Astrit than Stephens , and we have more strength in depth , if yann got injured we had piggot , now we have Piotr reza and tudgay I think we are 100% stronger now .
All this just goes back to the fact that we haven't strengthened the current squad though, doesn't it? Players who might be useful in the medium or long term were not the priority in January. We brought in six players in January and moved out four. These changes have left us weaker than before, because five of the six aren't playing, whereas three of the four were. That much we know. Take all the politics and personalities out of it and it's still bizarre.
Still disagree , I would rather have Astrit than Stephens , and we have more strength in depth , if yann got injured we had piggot , now we have Piotr reza and tudgay I think we are 100% stronger now .
I feel we are stronger as well. Also think we are playing better football.
Comments
I don't think for a minute a kid who was scoring goals in a level of football that equates to the conference or below was bought for this season, but the football manager games seem to have reared a new generation of fans who can't detach reality from fantasy.
It does, however, as Airman points out, lead to suspicion that something odd is going on. Any fool could tell that when he bought the shysters out we needed about five players who could contribute there and then. With the exception of AA (who is doing what Stephens was) and Reda (who is doing what Kermorgant was, but not as well) we didn't get that.
I suspect more and more that Duchatelet's master plan is to pay less for us by being relegated this year, then throwing a bit more cash at us, or loan players from SL/Alcorcon/FC Nobend of Latvia next season in what he will probably feel is a 'sure thing' of getting promoted. That's a worry, as getting out of division 3 is a damn sight harder than he thinks.
Powell has seen what happened when he's put a youngster in a big game (Joe Pigott v Millwall) and has seen what it can do for confidence... Maybe he's felt that playing against those four clubs it could have done more harm than good playing him because we'd have to play so Defensive in the matches i.e.
Queens Park Rangers... They've got Dunne and Onouha as their Defence, he wouldnt win much against those two
Sheffield Wednesday... We know what lumps they are
Leicester City... Running away with the Division and in Moore have an England U21 Defender who was wanted by Fulham a few weeks ago.
Maybe when it comes to facing Sheffield United, Barnsley and Yeovil we will see Piotr because those clubs have the same passing style as us so it'll be an easier route into the First-Team for him rather than being thrown in the deep end of a swimming pool without arm bands.
Also its been mentioned on here that Piotr confirmed we firstly wanted him in the Summer yet it was him who asked to join now... How do we know Powell didnt turn round to him and say okay but be warned, I've just let Michael Smith leave the club because he wanted to play but I couldnt risk bloody a youngster what with us being in relegation trouble so I can give you match time but you'll probably need to wait till next season for some proper game time.
In terms of squad building I am afraid we are talking "chalk & cheese".
We can all view the current squad and endlessly speculate on how we might strengthen the current squad extrapolating the financial consequences of relegation.
We can see such strengthening as a priority but when you take over a business, the priority is actually to put a plan in place to balance the books especially a "distressed" business whose vendors for the previous 18 months could barely find the money to operationally fund it, let alone invest in its future.
Judging by many of the aspirations on here such strengthening does not come cheap.
When you consider at the time of take over there is a known finite exposure to fund the club until the end of the season on what basis is a new owner going substantially increase the clubs trading liabilities when its future income may shortly be notably reduced? Especially when the increase brings him no guarantee of any retention of existing revenue streams.
We know the January window is the most expensive time to invest in players. It is one of the most difficult times to assimilate multiple players into a senior squad and secure results (see Millwall with 8 new players). Most clubs, if they possibly can, avoid spending in January.
So how much capital do you commit to avoiding relegation?
Is it 1 player on say £5k a week? How long a contract 1yr? 2yr? 3yr? Is it 2 players? Is it 3 players?, Is it 4 players? Is £5k a week enough to attract the players you need? Is it £10kpw - Is it £12kpw? etc., etc.,- How many of the "right players" are going choose to be part of a relegation battle? Will securing such players guarantee we will not be relegated?
4 players on £10kpw for 3yrs adds £6mn to your contingent liabilities before any transfer or agent fees. All such investment based on 6 weeks assessment of playing staff & management. If we are then relegated we would have just added £2mn p.a. to the wage bill against a reduced income of circa £4mn. That is a recipe for administration.
So we turn to the loan market, where we know with the greatest respect, we will be dealing with players who have either not yet made it or who are effectively on their club reject list.
Best - joins Sheff Wed. because it is more local to his current home.
Wright Phillips - sees no benefit in joining before pursuing a career in the MLS
Williams - His club sees a better opportunity for the player playing in a play off scenario
Guedioura - will likely return to Forest because he was successful when he played there before
The players available hardly inspire confidence they will be sufficient to guarantee Championship survival in the first place.
The bottom line is due to the strategy followed by the previous executive, which was at best to stand still, while desperately seeking someone to take over the debts, we are not an attractive proposition for players and agents. It will take time to turn that round. We are going to have to live with the consequences.
If the current management and staff can win the scramble for safety then we will be in a better position to move forward and they will have shown the qualities to be part of our future. It is a tough call but it is the hand they and the new owners have been dealt.
If they fail we will not be burdened with "additional operating" debt which would then restrict our ability to rebuild the squad for the future. There are no guarantees we could bounce back immediately but the cost of appropriate squad investment in L1 is likely to be significantly less.
I agree it is not a pretty picture but RD is an engineer and a technician. I doubt he was ever going to spend extravagantly at any age stage but certainly not until he has got the foundations right and certainly not to bolt on a "temporary solution" which may ultimately do very little in contributing to our long term future.
That's not Pete's fault as the expectations were foisted upon him but regardless that was what many told us to expect from the lad.
It is all very well saying "he's for the future" but at the time we'd just sold our main striker and "replaced" him with PP. So I can understand why, and said it at the time, people think we swapped a bird in the hand for two in the bush.
What AB and AFKA is correct.
You asked "What do people expect from the lad" and I replied that some people expected him to replace Yann instantly.
We can't leave him out of the equation as 1. this is a thread about him 2. he was bought for what is a large fee for us so in fact meant another option or options weren't taken. Buying him in January meant we didn't buy someone else.
It's great that we are looking to the future and we MAY have a good player for next season. But we also needed a good player for this season. Reza hasn't done it yet and Tudgay came much later.
I don't agree with us selling Yann - but am saying we shouldn't view this signing as a replacement!
...one for the future...ahem
He fully designed the schematics for a rocket and then he managed to come up with a cure for the common cold, all in my front room.
What did you think I was going to say, you daft racists.