I don't understand this though. Load a bunch of people on the back of a spiny dragon that is hastily trying to take flight and wouldn't you expect someone to almost fall off?
I don't understand this though. Load a bunch of people on the back of a spiny dragon that is hastily trying to take flight and wouldn't you expect someone to almost fall off?
It's false jeopardy. The character is in no danger. It's just window dressing. A device to make the stage direction 'exit stage right on a dragon' more exciting than it really is.
One thing that made no sense, we have seen the night king has a good ol throw on him, why didn't he throw a load of spears at the fellowship?
I think I am now done with this thread.
This thread is filled with people who lack any kind of suspension of belief or those that like to complain about just about anything.
The point is though, when it's at its best, GoT avoids these problems because although it is set in a fantasy world with magic, zombies, reincarnation and dragons, the characters within it act rationally and with logic and it has always taken the time to build the story in a way that means the way the main players have acted makes sense. For some reason, it has stopped doing that this series and has been rushing through the story and used a few too many tired old tropes.
I don't get the problem with people coming onto a thread specifically designed for discussing GoT in order to discuss how they feel it has lost some of what makes it such a great show.
I think I am getting frustrated because we've been over it a lot in this thread. The vast majority of issues people have come down to one thing - for financial reasons the show is being tied up in fewer episodes than the story needs. That's pretty much it. Journeys are moving quicker, relationships are moving faster, and sequences that don't further the plot lines are being jettisoned.
This is linked to the perceived plot holes. A plot hole only exists if it breaks the internal logic of the story. Almost every complaint so far isn't a plot hole as it can easily be explained, or an explanation may yet be forthcoming.
In most cases, the writers are deciding we don't need to see something like a journey, or make it clear how much time has passed, and in the case of the Night's King, rather than say "it's stupid because he didn't do X Y Z" why aren't people asking "oooh I wonder why he didn't do X Y Z" - after all, these are the same writers that everyone lauded for the last 5 years. Why backlash when they haven't even finished the story!?
It's also a different part of the story. The Red Wedding was shocking, but we know now the story is not unique. The idea that Martin is breaking convention by killing his heroes was misguided - it's following the structure of any hero's journey story, and the Red Wedding was effectively the Starks' 'supreme ordeal'. And that means the big finish is now coming, and it's going to be big and brash as any fantasy epic would be.
I like coming into this thread to discuss theories. When Dazzler explains something like he did above, I get a kick out of that and look at parts of the show in a new light. Reminds me of the good old Lost days on 4815162342.com.
As you said, Exiled, it's easy to be over-critical, and my guess is that we'll find the books, if we ever get them, are going to do precisely what you need them to do - add logic and detail that the show simply can't afford to spend time on.
In the meantime, I'd like to just enjoy the spectacle of what's left without making out that the showrunners are idiots. I think they're doing a great job in an extremely tricky situation (no more source material/ a huge and vocal fanbase/ a huge, unwieldy cast / financial constraints etc).
I just can't abide plot hole complaints that are not plot holes. So I reserve the right to fight them. I'm taking to the fight to them!!
I don't understand this though. Load a bunch of people on the back of a spiny dragon that is hastily trying to take flight and wouldn't you expect someone to almost fall off?
It's false jeopardy. The character is in no danger. It's just window dressing. A device to make the stage direction 'exit stage right on a dragon' more exciting than it really is.
Nailed it. If you're gonna have someone fall off then let them fall off. Don't write in some stupid Hollywood hanging on by a hand for no reason. Either he falls or he doesn't.
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter but it's a small moment that incapsulates all the problems I have with newer episodes of GOT.
Arya knows she's being played by Littlefinger so she's pretending to beef it up with Sansa. That's why she gave Sansa the dagger after saying "I can be anyone, sound like anyone, and all I need is their face". Then Sansa smiled. Shes gonna kill Littlefinger so that Arya can rule the Vale as him. Arya is far too street smart to be outsmarted by Petyr Baelish.
I don't understand this though. Load a bunch of people on the back of a spiny dragon that is hastily trying to take flight and wouldn't you expect someone to almost fall off?
It's false jeopardy. The character is in no danger. It's just window dressing. A device to make the stage direction 'exit stage right on a dragon' more exciting than it really is.
Nailed it. If you're gonna have someone fall off then let them fall off. Don't write in some stupid Hollywood hanging on by a hand for no reason. Either he falls or he doesn't.
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter but it's a small moment that incapsulates all the problems I have with newer episodes of GOT.
This is more or less my problem with Spectre. Daniel Craig is constantly put in these impossible to escape situations but keeps inexplicably escaping them. After half an hour you're convinced you're not watching the world's greatest spy but just the world's luckiest man. I don't think I've ever been so bored watching a man crash a plane into a mountain when I am 100% certain nothing bad is going to happen.
I don't understand this though. Load a bunch of people on the back of a spiny dragon that is hastily trying to take flight and wouldn't you expect someone to almost fall off?
It's false jeopardy. The character is in no danger. It's just window dressing. A device to make the stage direction 'exit stage right on a dragon' more exciting than it really is.
Nailed it. If you're gonna have someone fall off then let them fall off. Don't write in some stupid Hollywood hanging on by a hand for no reason. Either he falls or he doesn't.
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter but it's a small moment that incapsulates all the problems I have with newer episodes of GOT.
It's definitely something I've noticed since the TV show has passed and diverged from where the books are. The producers are falling back on action movie tropes to keep the excitement going. We've had Jamie Lanister and Jon Snow in two pointless fake drownings and Benjen Stark riding in on his deus ex machina horse to save the day. I think the show is brilliant but its disappointing that they resort to these things which are kind of insulting to a discerning audience.
Seems to me the moment the show began to run ahead of the books and the screenwriters had to write the dialogue and write the show on their own away from the existing source material, the show's pace and character development and gravitas have dropped.
I just enjoy it it's a great way to forget about all the shit going on day to day
Some of you over think it and I get that it's a consuming program but does it not start to detract from your enjoyment when your questioning the why and why nots seeing plot holes etc
Get the booze out close the living room door ignore the baby monitor put down your phone ignore the front door and just remember it's the best fictional program ever made so far for tv and your watching it draw to a close
One thing that made no sense, we have seen the night king has a good ol throw on him, why didn't he throw a load of spears at the fellowship?
I think I am now done with this thread.
Why, it's a reasonable question mate. I think they're in danger of going down the LOST route and having a very poor finish.
If the theory about the night king is true and he can see the future and that's why he didn't kill Jon Snow etc, why didn't he wait till the exact moment Dany was about to arrive and then start chucking spears, then when she arrives and sees their dead, takes all three dragons.
On the other hand, why didn't they stress and say to her look, killing that night king more or less ends the war, take him out now?
I know it's fantasy but they are milking it imo and are facing the criticism they deserve. Hopefully they can make amends in the final episode of the season. New GoT will probably have Cersei, Dany, Jon all be together and join forces and start the march to the north. Old GoT would have Tyrion have a change of heart when Dany arrives in kings landing and have a secret plot to switch sides and kill her, with Jon Snow somehow getting revenge. I miss the bittersweet GoT moments
A fan theory I heard was the one about Bran being the night king, and that he got trapped etc. I thought it was really interesting.
Also when I thought about it the three eyed Raven said to Bran you will fly, Bran had that vision of a dragon shadow flying over kings landing, could be the night king flying over kings landing on Viserion about to gatecrash Jon Snow and Cersei's get together, if Bran is genuinely the night king obviously
Having read the books, I'm not too fussed about the speed at which the tv show is getting through the storylines - I agree with Jimmy, it's a bit of a necessity and for the purpose of watching it on TV, I think the pace is actually a good thing
Arya knows she's being played by Littlefinger so she's pretending to beef it up with Sansa. That's why she gave Sansa the dagger after saying "I can be anyone, sound like anyone, and all I need is their face". Then Sansa smiled. Shes gonna kill Littlefinger so that Arya can rule the Vale as him. Arya is far too street smart to be outsmarted by Petyr Baelish.
Arya knows she's being played by Littlefinger so she's pretending to beef it up with Sansa. That's why she gave Sansa the dagger after saying "I can be anyone, sound like anyone, and all I need is their face". Then Sansa smiled. Shes gonna kill Littlefinger so that Arya can rule the Vale as him. Arya is far too street smart to be outsmarted by Petyr Baelish.
"Fucking hell Petyr, you've shrunk overnight"
Walder Frey was surely taller too, which I thought at the time was odd!
I don't understand this though. Load a bunch of people on the back of a spiny dragon that is hastily trying to take flight and wouldn't you expect someone to almost fall off?
It's false jeopardy. The character is in no danger. It's just window dressing. A device to make the stage direction 'exit stage right on a dragon' more exciting than it really is.
To be fair, Thrones is guilty of this kind of thing all the way through. Especially the very-last-moment, off-camera saviour trick, especially for characters with thick plot armour. Off the top of my head:
Sansa V The Rapists (Saved by The Hound) Jorah V The Dothraki guy (Saved by Daario) Jon Snow V Ygritte (Saved by Olly) - sort of Mance V Fire (Saved by Jon Snow) - sort of Grey Worm V Masked people (Saved by Selmy) Jon Snow v Karl (Saved by Wildling Girl) Karl V Wildling Girl (Saved by Jon Snow) Sand Snake V Tristan (Kinda saved by another Sand Snake)
I don't understand this though. Load a bunch of people on the back of a spiny dragon that is hastily trying to take flight and wouldn't you expect someone to almost fall off?
It's false jeopardy. The character is in no danger. It's just window dressing. A device to make the stage direction 'exit stage right on a dragon' more exciting than it really is.
To be fair, Thrones is guilty of this kind of thing all the way through. Especially the very-last-moment, off-camera saviour trick, especially for characters with thick plot armour. Off the top of my head:
Sansa V The Rapists (Saved by The Hound) Jorah V The Dothraki guy (Saved by Daario) Jon Snow V Ygritte (Saved by Olly) - sort of Mance V Fire (Saved by Jon Snow) - sort of Grey Worm V Masked people (Saved by Selmy) Jon Snow v Karl (Saved by Wildling Girl) Karl V Wildling Girl (Saved by Jon Snow) Sand Snake V Tristan (Kinda saved by another Sand Snake)
True, and I appreciate that TV and film needs these things to keep the pace and drama going. I just feel in this series it's been done a bit too much and with a heavy hand. If the writers are going to get the characters in to sticky situations they should make a better job of writing their way out of it too.
I just enjoy it it's a great way to forget about all the shit going on day to day
Some of you over think it and I get that it's a consuming program but does it not start to detract from your enjoyment when your questioning the why and why nots seeing plot holes etc
Get the booze out close the living room door ignore the baby monitor put down your phone ignore the front door and just remember it's the best fictional program ever made so far for tv and your watching it draw to a close
I just enjoy it it's a great way to forget about all the shit going on day to day
Some of you over think it and I get that it's a consuming program but does it not start to detract from your enjoyment when your questioning the why and why nots seeing plot holes etc
Get the booze out close the living room door ignore the baby monitor put down your phone ignore the front door and just remember it's the best fictional program ever made so far for tv and your watching it draw to a close
I'd put the sopranos and the wire above game if thrones, but it's certainly one of the finest to shows ever made.
Comments
This is linked to the perceived plot holes. A plot hole only exists if it breaks the internal logic of the story. Almost every complaint so far isn't a plot hole as it can easily be explained, or an explanation may yet be forthcoming.
In most cases, the writers are deciding we don't need to see something like a journey, or make it clear how much time has passed, and in the case of the Night's King, rather than say "it's stupid because he didn't do X Y Z" why aren't people asking "oooh I wonder why he didn't do X Y Z" - after all, these are the same writers that everyone lauded for the last 5 years. Why backlash when they haven't even finished the story!?
It's also a different part of the story. The Red Wedding was shocking, but we know now the story is not unique. The idea that Martin is breaking convention by killing his heroes was misguided - it's following the structure of any hero's journey story, and the Red Wedding was effectively the Starks' 'supreme ordeal'. And that means the big finish is now coming, and it's going to be big and brash as any fantasy epic would be.
I like coming into this thread to discuss theories. When Dazzler explains something like he did above, I get a kick out of that and look at parts of the show in a new light. Reminds me of the good old Lost days on 4815162342.com.
As you said, Exiled, it's easy to be over-critical, and my guess is that we'll find the books, if we ever get them, are going to do precisely what you need them to do - add logic and detail that the show simply can't afford to spend time on.
In the meantime, I'd like to just enjoy the spectacle of what's left without making out that the showrunners are idiots. I think they're doing a great job in an extremely tricky situation (no more source material/ a huge and vocal fanbase/ a huge, unwieldy cast / financial constraints etc).
I just can't abide plot hole complaints that are not plot holes. So I reserve the right to fight them. I'm taking to the fight to them!!
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter but it's a small moment that incapsulates all the problems I have with newer episodes of GOT.
Arya knows she's being played by Littlefinger so she's pretending to beef it up with Sansa. That's why she gave Sansa the dagger after saying "I can be anyone, sound like anyone, and all I need is their face". Then Sansa smiled. Shes gonna kill Littlefinger so that Arya can rule the Vale as him. Arya is far too street smart to be outsmarted by Petyr Baelish.
Some of you over think it and I get that it's a consuming program but does it not start to detract from your enjoyment when your questioning the why and why nots seeing plot holes etc
Get the booze out close the living room door ignore the baby monitor put down your phone ignore the front door and just remember it's the best fictional program ever made so far for tv and your watching it draw to a close
If the theory about the night king is true and he can see the future and that's why he didn't kill Jon Snow etc, why didn't he wait till the exact moment Dany was about to arrive and then start chucking spears, then when she arrives and sees their dead, takes all three dragons.
On the other hand, why didn't they stress and say to her look, killing that night king more or less ends the war, take him out now?
I know it's fantasy but they are milking it imo and are facing the criticism they deserve. Hopefully they can make amends in the final episode of the season. New GoT will probably have Cersei, Dany, Jon all be together and join forces and start the march to the north. Old GoT would have Tyrion have a change of heart when Dany arrives in kings landing and have a secret plot to switch sides and kill her, with Jon Snow somehow getting revenge. I miss the bittersweet GoT moments
Also when I thought about it the three eyed Raven said to Bran you will fly, Bran had that vision of a dragon shadow flying over kings landing, could be the night king flying over kings landing on Viserion about to gatecrash Jon Snow and Cersei's get together, if Bran is genuinely the night king obviously
Sansa V The Rapists (Saved by The Hound)
Jorah V The Dothraki guy (Saved by Daario)
Jon Snow V Ygritte (Saved by Olly) - sort of
Mance V Fire (Saved by Jon Snow) - sort of
Grey Worm V Masked people (Saved by Selmy)
Jon Snow v Karl (Saved by Wildling Girl)
Karl V Wildling Girl (Saved by Jon Snow)
Sand Snake V Tristan (Kinda saved by another Sand Snake)