From December 2022, Southeastern have scrapped the direct loop train from the Sidcup line to Woolwich line. Meaning no more direct trains to Charlton from stations on the Sidcup line and vice versa.
Return journeys from Charlton on match days in particular will take a lot longer.
Devastating for those that use this service for ease of mobility, age etc.
Not sure if anyone from the club has been consulted but not good at all.
Par for the course for South Eastern. I use the train from Crayford to Charlton but also to Abbey Wood to use the Elizabeth Line. When all things CAFC are a bit meh you don't need disincentives to go.
Head of the unions have justify their £100k plus a year to the members in creating a noise every now and then to justify their wage
Do they really earn that? But if they do the membership can always vote them out if they are not happy with their service, more than can be said for those who are on extraordinary salaries who are actually responsible for the railways.
Head of the unions have justify their £100k plus a year to the members in creating a noise every now and then to justify their wage
Do they really earn that? But if they do the membership can always vote them out if they are not happy with their service, more than can be said for those who are on extraordinary salaries who are actually responsible for the railways.
Yes they are on that…think you would find it hard to oust a leader of a union. Wish I could go in and demand a 11% pay rise. Personally o would like to think nurses and doctors should come before train drivers when handing our pay increases
From December 2022, Southeastern have scrapped the direct loop train from the Sidcup line to Woolwich line. Meaning no more direct trains to Charlton from stations on the Sidcup line and vice versa.
Return journeys from Charlton on match days in particular will take a lot longer.
Devastating for those that use this service for ease of mobility, age etc.
Not sure if anyone from the club has been consulted but not good at all.
Bang average for southeastern but that looks weird. Are they going to be sending everything through to Dartford to turn it around or terminating everything at Slade Green? Obviously not. They'll still need to be running trains round both loops to/from SG onto the Sidcup and Bexleyheath loops, won't they? So what's the hey with stopping punters from riding those services? In days gone by I've certainly joined a train at SG to go up the Sidcup loop when that train was timetabled as starting from Crayford. Same thing in reverse, catch a train that's officially ended its journey at Crayford but takes one to Charlton. Just needs checking with the platform staff so you don't end up in the sidings or SG yard. Call me an anorak... thanks But there's some sort of ancient legislation tucked away that train operators are obliged to run a minimum number of passenger services along lengths of track in order to keep that track open and available for use and because the formal withdrawal of a service or route is a lengthy and tiresome process. I think they're referred to as parliamentary trains. Not that setrains will give a toss about breaking any service standard rules, they'll just be cost cutting at every turn.
Head of the unions have justify their £100k plus a year to the members in creating a noise every now and then to justify their wage
Do they really earn that? But if they do the membership can always vote them out if they are not happy with their service, more than can be said for those who are on extraordinary salaries who are actually responsible for the railways.
To be fair in this case, a more accurate description would be that the Woolwich/Lewisham trains are being diverted to Cannon Street instead of Charing Cross, as they're not being cut.
Pathing of this train currently isn't great anyway. Any time I take this train to Charlton from London, it always seems to get stuck outside Lewisham, on the ramp on the "wrong side" of the mainline tracks. By going to Cannon Street it will be on the other side, with hopefully an easier path into Lewisham
Not that it’ll probably achieve much but a petition has been started and is being supported by borough MPs about the shambolic nature of these timetable changes. Zero passenger consultation took place.
Affects me as I get the train from New Eltham to Charing Cross for work. I rarely get a seat anyway and now they are halving the number of trains I can get. Excellent.
For those who live in Maidstone, a new hourly Maidstone East to Charing Cross is launching on December 12th. They are removing the Blackfriars trains though a connection train takes 5 mins between the stations.
Head of the unions have justify their £100k plus a year to the members in creating a noise every now and then to justify their wage
Do they really earn that? But if they do the membership can always vote them out if they are not happy with their service, more than can be said for those who are on extraordinary salaries who are actually responsible for the railways.
Typical train driver wages apparently £57k.
I was referring to the senior management rather than a driver.
For those who live in Maidstone, a new hourly Maidstone East to Charing Cross is launching on December 12th. They are removing the Blackfriars trains though a connection train takes 5 mins between the stations.
This has caused a bit of uproar for Bearsted commuters (the stop before Maidstone, London bound) as the direct train to Blackfriars was very popular. Users will now have to change at Maidstone to avoid going all the way to Victoria and getting the tube. In typical Southeastern style the trains forming the Maidstone to Charing Cross service come up from Ashford so will sail through Bearsted before commencing the journey from Maidstone.
For those who live in Maidstone, a new hourly Maidstone East to Charing Cross is launching on December 12th. They are removing the Blackfriars trains though a connection train takes 5 mins between the stations.
This has caused a bit of uproar for Bearsted commuters (the stop before Maidstone, London bound) as the direct train to Blackfriars was very popular. Users will now have to change at Maidstone to avoid going all the way to Victoria and getting the tube. In typical Southeastern style the trains forming the Maidstone to Charing Cross service come up from Ashford so will sail through Bearsted before commencing the journey from Maidstone.
Did wonder about that.
I'm a fan of the Blackfriars service as the walk is 5 mins to the office, so it's swings and roundabouts. But I'll take it.
All very well blaming Southeastern, but in reality it is the DfT (Department for Transport) who determine the train service levels for stations and routes. The train operator and Network Rail then develop the finer detail of the timetable to match the DfT's specification. Despite the then government wanting private sector innovation incorporated into the running of the railways as a significant benefit of privatisation, micromanagement by the DfT negated this to a large degree. Franchising of the passenger operation ended as a result of Covid and most train operation companies are now run under a management contract, with the DfT paying the operator for the services it wishes to operate, plus a percentage profit. Not surprised about the changes. The government wants to claw back some of the money it gave to train operators to support train services during Covid. Hence matching the level of service to current demand. As a result off-peak levels of service will operate on some routes during the peak, where reduced demand (compared to pre-2020 / Covid) doesn't yet warrant the previous level of peak service being reinstated. The industry has wanted to simplify services to reduce conflict at key junctions for some time. Hence a preference for running Woolwich via Lewisham services to Cannon Street and Sidcup and Hayes services to Charing Cross or Blackfriars. This will significantly reduce conflicts at the junction to the west of Lewisham Station and supposedly reduce resulting delays and possible cancellations. Not so convenient if you now have to change trains at London Bridge and suffer mobility problems or have young kids and a pushchair and find the lift to / from the platform isn't working! The removal of the Sidcup and Woolwich loop service must be a result of loosing a pair of Woolwich line trains every hour, compared with the pre-covid timetable. At one time Loop services operated from Cannon Street via both Bexleyheath and Sidcup onto the Woolwich line; this was a way of increasing the number of trains per hour on the Dartford lines without overloading terminating capacity at Dartford or Gravesend. Remodelling of Gravesend Station to provide a dedicated terminating platform has enabled more trains to be reversed here without blocking the through lines. Significant house building between Dartford and Gravesend must now justify 6 trains per hour, compared with 2 stopping and 2 semi-fast previously, hence more services being extended to Gravesend. Removal of the loop services will also reduce conflict at junctions in the Crayford and Slade Green areas. Sidcup line to Charlton journeys are still possible, changing at Dartford, with an extended journey time and fare increase, as Dartford is in a separate fare zone. As long as one journey in one direction on one day per week is maintained between each of Slade Green and Crayford / Barnehurst, there will be no 'removal of passenger service' issues resulting from removal of the loop services between the Woolwich and Sidcup / Bexleyheath lines.
Comments
From December 2022, Southeastern have scrapped the direct loop train from the Sidcup line to Woolwich line. Meaning no more direct trains to Charlton from stations on the Sidcup line and vice versa.
Return journeys from Charlton on match days in particular will take a lot longer.
Devastating for those that use this service for ease of mobility, age etc.
Not sure if anyone from the club has been consulted but not good at all.
Wish I could go in and demand a 11% pay rise. Personally o would like to think nurses and doctors should come before train drivers when handing our pay increases
Are they going to be sending everything through to Dartford to turn it around or terminating everything at Slade Green? Obviously not.
They'll still need to be running trains round both loops to/from SG onto the Sidcup and Bexleyheath loops, won't they? So what's the hey with stopping punters from riding those services? In days gone by I've certainly joined a train at SG to go up the Sidcup loop when that train was timetabled as starting from Crayford. Same thing in reverse, catch a train that's officially ended its journey at Crayford but takes one to Charlton. Just needs checking with the platform staff so you don't end up in the sidings or SG yard.
Call me an anorak... thanks
But there's some sort of ancient legislation tucked away that train operators are obliged to run a minimum number of passenger services along lengths of track in order to keep that track open and available for use and because the formal withdrawal of a service or route is a lengthy and tiresome process. I think they're referred to as parliamentary trains.
Not that setrains will give a toss about breaking any service standard rules, they'll just be cost cutting at every turn.
Pathing of this train currently isn't great anyway. Any time I take this train to Charlton from London, it always seems to get stuck outside Lewisham, on the ramp on the "wrong side" of the mainline tracks. By going to Cannon Street it will be on the other side, with hopefully an easier path into Lewisham
https://www.change.org/p/save-our-se9-train-services
Wankers
In typical Southeastern style the trains forming the Maidstone to Charing Cross service come up from Ashford so will sail through Bearsted before commencing the journey from Maidstone.
I'm a fan of the Blackfriars service as the walk is 5 mins to the office, so it's swings and roundabouts. But I'll take it.
Despite the then government wanting private sector innovation incorporated into the running of the railways as a significant benefit of privatisation, micromanagement by the DfT negated this to a large degree.
Franchising of the passenger operation ended as a result of Covid and most train operation companies are now run under a management contract, with the DfT paying the operator for the services it wishes to operate, plus a percentage profit.
Not surprised about the changes. The government wants to claw back some of the money it gave to train operators to support train services during Covid. Hence matching the level of service to current demand. As a result off-peak levels of service will operate on some routes during the peak, where reduced demand (compared to pre-2020 / Covid) doesn't yet warrant the previous level of peak service being reinstated.
The industry has wanted to simplify services to reduce conflict at key junctions for some time. Hence a preference for running Woolwich via Lewisham services to Cannon Street and Sidcup and Hayes services to Charing Cross or Blackfriars. This will significantly reduce conflicts at the junction to the west of Lewisham Station and supposedly reduce resulting delays and possible cancellations. Not so convenient if you now have to change trains at London Bridge and suffer mobility problems or have young kids and a pushchair and find the lift to / from the platform isn't working!
The removal of the Sidcup and Woolwich loop service must be a result of loosing a pair of Woolwich line trains every hour, compared with the pre-covid timetable. At one time Loop services operated from Cannon Street via both Bexleyheath and Sidcup onto the Woolwich line; this was a way of increasing the number of trains per hour on the Dartford lines without overloading terminating capacity at Dartford or Gravesend. Remodelling of Gravesend Station to provide a dedicated terminating platform has enabled more trains to be reversed here without blocking the through lines. Significant house building between Dartford and Gravesend must now justify 6 trains per hour, compared with 2 stopping and 2 semi-fast previously, hence more services being extended to Gravesend. Removal of the loop services will also reduce conflict at junctions in the Crayford and Slade Green areas.
Sidcup line to Charlton journeys are still possible, changing at Dartford, with an extended journey time and fare increase, as Dartford is in a separate fare zone.
As long as one journey in one direction on one day per week is maintained between each of Slade Green and Crayford / Barnehurst, there will be no 'removal of passenger service' issues resulting from removal of the loop services between the Woolwich and Sidcup / Bexleyheath lines.