"Religion, with its repetitive rituals, is a "universal obsessional neurosis." Sigmund Freud. I respect peoples faiths except when they are forcing it on other people or fundamentalists who terrorize other communities. Religion, for me, is simplifying the answer to why we are here and why everything happens. I think evolution got us where we are today and where we are going. I won't say I believe in evolution but it is the most plausible reason for our existence.
As you believe in nothing, you believe that when you die you die, etc. how do you find comfort when a loved one dies? How do you go about life happily if that is all? Just a question, be nice, lol.
Not a lot of confort, but I don't believe in something hidden round the corner to avoid facing up to what's happened. I lost my dad back in may, so we did the humanist funeral thing, celebrating his life and being happy he was among us. I've been to catholic funerals in Spain where the service is so wrapped up in religión the deceased barely get's a mention, so as a family, we were very happy with the humanist. Afterwards, you still have to face up to the fact that dead is dead, which is a nasty thing to do (depends how old the deceased is, and how they went, as obviously I life cut short in it's prime is horrible) but in my opinión, that's really the same for anyone, and to answer your question with a question, if religión is so great, why are'nt religious people happy when someone dies, as logically, they've gone to heaven to be with god. Life can be shit, and there are obviously big downers that come along, but if you are an atheist, you try and find comfort in the person you lost, and the life they led. Deep down, I would'nt even put myself as an atheist, there may be some higher power (NOT god but maybe something more intelligent than us!!) but I look at organised religión and what it has achieved (and worse, how it wishes to claim to have been a forcé for good since people stopped being monkeys) and to put it politely, my reaction is 'not for me thanks'.
As you believe in nothing, you believe that when you die you die, etc. how do you find comfort when a loved one dies? How do you go about life happily if that is all? Just a question, be nice, lol.
Not a lot of confort, but I don't believe in something hidden round the corner to avoid facing up to what's happened. I lost my dad back in may, so we did the humanist funeral thing, celebrating his life and being happy he was among us. I've been to catholic funerals in Spain where the service is so wrapped up in religión the deceased barely get's a mention, so as a family, we were very happy with the humanist. Afterwards, you still have to face up to the fact that dead is dead, which is a nasty thing to do (depends how old the deceased is, and how they went, as obviously I life cut short in it's prime is horrible) but in my opinión, that's really the same for anyone, and to answer your question with a question, if religión is so great, why are'nt religious people happy when someone dies, as logically, they've gone to heaven to be with god. Life can be shit, and there are obviously big downers that come along, but if you are an atheist, you try and find comfort in the person you lost, and the life they led. Deep down, I would'nt even put myself as an atheist, there may be some higher power (NOT god but maybe something more intelligent than us!!) but I look at organised religión and what it has achieved (and worse, how it wishes to claim to have been a forcé for good since people stopped being monkeys) and to put it politely, my reaction is 'not for me thanks'.
Good answer thanks, sorry about your father. In answer to your question, in Christianity, there are mixed emotions when someone dies, we feel content that they are happy and are at peace, no more suffering etc, we are sad that we have lost the person and will miss them etc, comforted that one day we'll be reunited. I am not a fan of the Catholic Church either, I find it dated and too strict, a religion is a life choice it should not be a dictatorship, so I agree where the funerals are concerned and weddings and baptisms, the Anglican Church is much more flexible and more about the person.
All the suffering, atrocities and hate currently going on in the world and not one faction, group or sect involved could be described as atheist. I hear how peaceful, loving and wonderful religion is regardless which flavour. As an observer all I see is a Catholic Church so rich that it's fortunes could not be counted yet millions in the world are starving. I see Islam waging a war and repressing its people with medieval vigour.
You will forgive me I hope this simplistic take on religion and perhaps see why I view all religion nomatter how wonderful with great scepticism.
It is important to distinguish between a religion itself and cynical use of that religion by politically motivated people as a cloak to justify atrocities.
Religion has often been used as a mask for political ends and as a justification of terrorism.
I would accept that the reticence of religious leaders of all types to condemn such acts makes your viewpoint understandable if misguided in my opinion.
An interesting viewpoint. But I'm not convinced you can so readily separate religion and politics. Politics, after all, is the practice and theory of influencing other people on a global, civic or individual level.
Surely that is all (most?) religions' raison d'etre? Otherwise what is the point of any of it on an organised scale?
It is therefore not surprising that politically motivated people, such as evangelists, are attracted to the profession of religion.
Personally, I've always been very suspicious indeed of anyone who is attracted to a job that needs a uniform in order to demonstrate their superiority over the hoi polloi. Whether that's a policeman, traffic warden, local vicar or the gold-encrusted Bishop of Rome.
As you believe in nothing, you believe that when you die you die, etc. how do you find comfort when a loved one dies? How do you go about life happily if that is all? Just a question, be nice, lol.
Not a lot of confort, but I don't believe in something hidden round the corner to avoid facing up to what's happened. I lost my dad back in may, so we did the humanist funeral thing, celebrating his life and being happy he was among us. I've been to catholic funerals in Spain where the service is so wrapped up in religión the deceased barely get's a mention, so as a family, we were very happy with the humanist. Afterwards, you still have to face up to the fact that dead is dead, which is a nasty thing to do (depends how old the deceased is, and how they went, as obviously I life cut short in it's prime is horrible) but in my opinión, that's really the same for anyone, and to answer your question with a question, if religión is so great, why are'nt religious people happy when someone dies, as logically, they've gone to heaven to be with god. Life can be shit, and there are obviously big downers that come along, but if you are an atheist, you try and find comfort in the person you lost, and the life they led. Deep down, I would'nt even put myself as an atheist, there may be some higher power (NOT god but maybe something more intelligent than us!!) but I look at organised religión and what it has achieved (and worse, how it wishes to claim to have been a forcé for good since people stopped being monkeys) and to put it politely, my reaction is 'not for me thanks'.
Good answer thanks, sorry about your father. In answer to your question, in Christianity, there are mixed emotions when someone dies, we feel content that they are happy and are at peace, no more suffering etc, we are sad that we have lost the person and will miss them etc, comforted that one day we'll be reunited. I am not a fan of the Catholic Church either, I find it dated and too strict, a religion is a life choice it should not be a dictatorship, so I agree where the funerals are concerned and weddings and baptisms, the Anglican Church is much more flexible and more about the person.
Umm, so, I guess there's no fire and brimstone and eternal damnation in your faith? You see, my born-again sister-in-law is never anything but deeply upset that her sister and I will be spending eternity in the pits of hell and we'll never get to meet up in the afterlife.
As you believe in nothing, you believe that when you die you die, etc. how do you find comfort when a loved one dies? How do you go about life happily if that is all? Just a question, be nice, lol.
Not a lot of confort, but I don't believe in something hidden round the corner to avoid facing up to what's happened. I lost my dad back in may, so we did the humanist funeral thing, celebrating his life and being happy he was among us. I've been to catholic funerals in Spain where the service is so wrapped up in religión the deceased barely get's a mention, so as a family, we were very happy with the humanist. Afterwards, you still have to face up to the fact that dead is dead, which is a nasty thing to do (depends how old the deceased is, and how they went, as obviously I life cut short in it's prime is horrible) but in my opinión, that's really the same for anyone, and to answer your question with a question, if religión is so great, why are'nt religious people happy when someone dies, as logically, they've gone to heaven to be with god. Life can be shit, and there are obviously big downers that come along, but if you are an atheist, you try and find comfort in the person you lost, and the life they led. Deep down, I would'nt even put myself as an atheist, there may be some higher power (NOT god but maybe something more intelligent than us!!) but I look at organised religión and what it has achieved (and worse, how it wishes to claim to have been a forcé for good since people stopped being monkeys) and to put it politely, my reaction is 'not for me thanks'.
Good answer thanks, sorry about your father. In answer to your question, in Christianity, there are mixed emotions when someone dies, we feel content that they are happy and are at peace, no more suffering etc, we are sad that we have lost the person and will miss them etc, comforted that one day we'll be reunited. I am not a fan of the Catholic Church either, I find it dated and too strict, a religion is a life choice it should not be a dictatorship, so I agree where the funerals are concerned and weddings and baptisms, the Anglican Church is much more flexible and more about the person.
Umm, so, I guess there's no fire and brimstone and eternal damnation in your faith? You see, my born-again sister-in-law is never anything but deeply upset that her sister and I will be spending eternity in the pits of hell and we'll never get to meet up in the afterlife.
Of course there is, I believe that if you're evil you will be punished when you die, I also believe you have to be truly evil, murder, kiddy fiddling, destroying lives with no remorse etc. I don't believe that you go to hell for not believing in God, for cheating on your wife or for shoplifting not unless you repeatedly do bad things with no remorse and never do any good. It is also, as I said before, not for us mere mortals to decide and condemn people to eternal damnation, the big guy himself will decide when our times come.
Actually, if I was going to be religious, I'd reluctantly choose the C of E simply because they seem to be removing all the religious bits of it. Women get some involvement, gays are'nt stoned any more etc etc. Just an aside, I was discussing football with some Spamish mates, and happened to mention the Rangers/Celtic Protestant/Catholic thing. The reaction was that I was pulling some sort of pointless joke. Religious football teams? Ha ha, good one. They did eventually believe it after a long tiring discussion of Northern Ireland,but the reality is it just convinced them the British are weird, and any excuse will do for a punch up at football.
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Every season I pray that Charlton beat Millwall and I'm sure there is a spanner somewhere praying for Millwall to beat Charlton. You might say those prayers cancel each other out or perhaps God would not respond to something so frivolous. On that basis Millwall win which I can only conclude must be part of gods great plan. Perhaps we have picked the wrong side chaps ?
When I was living in Indonesia for a year I met an interesting guy (he was European) who believed that everyone should 'choose' a religion. He advised me to think about it; to research all the religions and make a choice. He thought that you have a whole lifetime to think about it and make your choice and that anyone who ignored the 'great debate' was in his mind 'stupid.'
Indonesia is a great place to start such research. Just a simple hop from one island to the next brings you into a completely different culture and religion. Rather than make me make my choice however it brought me to a completely different conclusion than that which my friend would have imagined.
I concluded that religion is like a form of brainwashing for 99% of people. There are only 1% (to be generous) who actually make a choice e.g. I had two housemates in Indonesia: one was a Buddhist from USA and the other was an atheist vegan. The other 99% of people on the planet just fall in line with their environment. How else is it that one island is Muslim and the next Hindi - it just doesn't make any sense. None of these people have 'made a choice', most don't even consider that a choice is there to be made.
My conclusion has only been confirmed since my Indonesian realisations by my subsequent marriage and trips to Argentina. Ask questions to Catholics and you just get standard answers, even from intelligent people with scientific professions. I try and try but there is just no logic.
I believe that you die and the afterlife is the remains of your body whether that be rotting into the ground or as ashes on the wind. You also leave behind everything you say and do. What you do is the most important as you have an influence on the world. There is an interesting passage about this in 'Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close' by Jonathon Safran Foer. If you have children you leave behind a genetic trace too but this is not just your trace but also that of all your ancestors so your influence in that sense is pretty limited anyway. That's all.....sorry. Just live life and enjoy it.
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
George Carlin was raised Catholic. I suspect he was more than familiar with the bible.
I'm not a fan of Carlin either - I don't trust anyone who's statements are so clearly dependent on approval from others. The problem with using the bible as proof of divine intervention or presence is that it isn't proof of anything except that somebody wrote some text at some point in the past. Any amount of contextual evidence (ie, for there having been a "flood", or for certain individuals that correspond to, for instance, Christ or Moses having actually existed) is just that - evidence of historical context and that, again, someone at some point wrote a text which took place in that context. Studying the bible may give you insight into the background for the Judaistic religions, but does not begin to provide anything you could call proof for the assumptions of those faiths. The "word of god" is, for some, just the word of man presenting itself as the word of god. As for dedicating your resources to researching the bible in order to determine something that it cannot possibly prove, perhaps your time would be better spent determining how best to live life in ways that are incontrovertibly (or almost) "right" - ie living in ways that are conducive to peace of mind, mutual care, appreciation of oneself and others. This is achievable by all, regardless of religion or lack of it. The human mind finds patterns and makes sense of chaos, and that is as true of studying ancient texts as finding shapes in an apparently random array of dots on a screen - we cannot trust it to tell us "the truth" about the meaning of those patterns. As soon as you step outside of those patterns and start making claims for their objective existence you are in trouble.
I'm not a fan of Carlin either - I don't trust anyone who's statements are so clearly dependent on approval from others. The problem with using the bible as proof of divine intervention or presence is that it isn't proof of anything except that somebody wrote some text at some point in the past. Any amount of contextual evidence (ie, for there having been a "flood", or for certain individuals that correspond to, for instance, Christ or Moses having actually existed) is just that - evidence of historical context and that, again, someone at some point wrote a text which took place in that context. Studying the bible may give you insight into the background for the Judaistic religions, but does not begin to provide anything you could call proof for the assumptions of those faiths. The "word of god" is, for some, just the word of man presenting itself as the word of god. As for dedicating your resources to researching the bible in order to determine something that it cannot possibly prove, perhaps your time would be better spent determining how best to live life in ways that are incontrovertibly (or almost) "right" - ie living in ways that are conducive to peace of mind, mutual care, appreciation of oneself and others. This is achievable by all, regardless of religion or lack of it. The human mind finds patterns and makes sense of chaos, and that is as true of studying ancient texts as finding shapes in an apparently random array of dots on a screen - we cannot trust it to tell us "the truth" about the meaning of those patterns. As soon as you step outside of those patterns and start making claims for their objective existence you are in trouble.
(Covers head and waits for the physical scientists to get out the big guns)
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
I have a GSCE in Religious Education (Catholic). In general, there is an argument to back up / justify any position you like in the Bible if you selectively quote. That involves good and bad actions.
Religion can be individually helpful and provides a sense of community. It is belief and opinion. Ultimately it is a matter of faith that cannot be proven one or other.
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
George Carlin was raised Catholic. I suspect he was more than familiar with the bible.
With a clearly poor understanding of the key themes of the book. I find it hard to believe that he knows the bible with comments like that. I have given an example from the bible that demonstrates my point.
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
I have a GSCE in Religious Education (Catholic). In general, there is an argument to back up / justify any position you like in the Bible if you selectively quote.
I didn't know you could specialise in one particular faith in RE! I thought it was a kind of comparative thing. When I was at school it was a load of stories from the new testament presented to us as fact by our dodgy school chaplain and a passing disparaging reference to the lunacy of all other faiths.
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
I have a GSCE in Religious Education (Catholic). In general, there is an argument to back up / justify any position you like in the Bible if you selectively quote. That involves good and bad actions.
Religion can be individually helpful and provides a sense of community. It is belief and opinion. Ultimately it is a matter of faith that cannot be proven one or other.
With all due respect to Addick in SW16.
There is some truth in that. What is important is the context. Knowing why and when a passage was written and having a background of the particular scripture.
I was brought up as a catholic in a catholic school, my parents are/ were churchgoers sometimes four times a week. I am very anti the Catholic Church on a number of counts. Firstly the way they brushed all the sexual offences by priests over the years under the carpet. Their stance on homosexuals, is out of date and barbaric. Their stance on women priests and ministers. Their stance on birth control are all things that I don't believe in. I am a spiritual person but I do not affiliate myself to any organised Religion. I belief in right and wrong and peace and love, the only thing to hate is hate itself.
The key tenant in any religion should be that if others don't share your particularly faith that they are treated with humanity and respect the same as members of those who have the faith. The trouble with many religions is that they fall down on this level. Those who don't share the faith can be treated without respect / violence and are fair game due to their perceived lack of faith or belief in a different religion.
Whats happening in Iraq is a prime example of this. Extremely conservative Isis Sunni Muslims feel that they can mistreat / murder Yezidi's, Christians and Shia Muslims because they do not believe in their version of religion. It is one of things in religion that I find very contradictory and wrong.
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
George Carlin was raised Catholic. I suspect he was more than familiar with the bible.
With a clearly poor understanding of the key themes of the book. I find it hard to believe that he knows the bible with comments like that. I have given an example from the bible that demonstrates my point.
That highlights perfectly the futility of a discussion about religion between someone who believes in it, and someone who doesn't. If the bible was 'true' then there wouldn't need to be an 'interpretation' of the themes in it. You can 'interpret' a book like 1984 however you want - because it's a 'fictional' book. You can't 'interpret' the Haynes Manual for a 1984 Ford Cortina - because it's a 'factual' book.
If you just take the bible as a bunch of stories to live your life by - I have no problem with that. I have problems with the content of a lot of them, and it's frankly ridiculous to live your life by some of them 2000 years later as they have zero relevance to how we live today - but as a concept, if you just take the 'peace and love' and ignore the 'eye for an eye' stuff, that's great.
What I do have an issue with, is people attempting to 'justify' their faith by trying to 'prove' that God exists. Surely, if God DOES exist, then why do you need to prove it?
thanks for reply and honesty (but as a good Christian I'd expect nothing less, right
so.... in saying this:
"Yes (I believe i have found THE TRUTH). There are lots of theories out there and they can't all be true. I strongly believe that in Jesus I've found the answer."
You also believe that all those other theories (e.g. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Taoists, pantheists, athiests etc.) are wrong and adherents to those faiths are wrong in their world view.
is that also a correct representation of your views?
again, i promise you this is all meant in the good spirit of this fine thread.
Comments
I respect peoples faiths except when they are forcing it on other people or fundamentalists who terrorize other communities. Religion, for me, is simplifying the answer to why we are here and why everything happens. I think evolution got us where we are today and where we are going. I won't say I believe in evolution but it is the most plausible reason for our existence.
Afterwards, you still have to face up to the fact that dead is dead, which is a nasty thing to do (depends how old the deceased is, and how they went, as obviously I life cut short in it's prime is horrible) but in my opinión, that's really the same for anyone, and to answer your question with a question, if religión is so great, why are'nt religious people happy when someone dies, as logically, they've gone to heaven to be with god. Life can be shit, and there are obviously big downers that come along, but if you are an atheist, you try and find comfort in the person you lost, and the life they led.
Deep down, I would'nt even put myself as an atheist, there may be some higher power (NOT god but maybe something more intelligent than us!!) but I look at organised religión and what it has achieved (and worse, how it wishes to claim to have been a forcé for good since people stopped being monkeys) and to put it politely, my reaction is 'not for me thanks'.
Surely that is all (most?) religions' raison d'etre? Otherwise what is the point of any of it on an organised scale?
It is therefore not surprising that politically motivated people, such as evangelists, are attracted to the profession of religion.
Personally, I've always been very suspicious indeed of anyone who is attracted to a job that needs a uniform in order to demonstrate their superiority over the hoi polloi. Whether that's a policeman, traffic warden, local vicar or the gold-encrusted Bishop of Rome.
Just an aside, I was discussing football with some Spamish mates, and happened to mention the Rangers/Celtic Protestant/Catholic thing. The reaction was that I was pulling some sort of pointless joke. Religious football teams? Ha ha, good one. They did eventually believe it after a long tiring discussion of Northern Ireland,but the reality is it just convinced them the British are weird, and any excuse will do for a punch up at football.
But then again, to quote Mr Carlin, "What's the point in praying if it's already all been decided in God's 'Divine Plan?' What's the point of being a Supreme Being with a 'Divine Plan' if it can get screwed up by any schmuck with a $2 Prayer Book?"
Indonesia is a great place to start such research. Just a simple hop from one island to the next brings you into a completely different culture and religion. Rather than make me make my choice however it brought me to a completely different conclusion than that which my friend would have imagined.
I concluded that religion is like a form of brainwashing for 99% of people. There are only 1% (to be generous) who actually make a choice e.g. I had two housemates in Indonesia: one was a Buddhist from USA and the other was an atheist vegan. The other 99% of people on the planet just fall in line with their environment. How else is it that one island is Muslim and the next Hindi - it just doesn't make any sense. None of these people have 'made a choice', most don't even consider that a choice is there to be made.
My conclusion has only been confirmed since my Indonesian realisations by my subsequent marriage and trips to Argentina. Ask questions to Catholics and you just get standard answers, even from intelligent people with scientific professions. I try and try but there is just no logic.
I believe that you die and the afterlife is the remains of your body whether that be rotting into the ground or as ashes on the wind. You also leave behind everything you say and do. What you do is the most important as you have an influence on the world. There is an interesting passage about this in 'Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close' by Jonathon Safran Foer. If you have children you leave behind a genetic trace too but this is not just your trace but also that of all your ancestors so your influence in that sense is pretty limited anyway. That's all.....sorry. Just live life and enjoy it.
Sometimes I really wish that people such as the guy you're quoting would either read the bible, ask questions, simply state why they don't believe or not say anything. How can you pull something apart and make arguments against it if you don't know about it? How can you argue against the theology of Christianity or any faith if you haven't read the book and understood it's context? Anyone who has read the bible will know of examples when God has heard the cries of his people and responded. For example, Hannah desperately pleaded and wrestled with God for him to bless her with a child and God responded. The Bible is clear about the power of prayer to change circumstances within his will. He says he longs to give us the desires of our hearts.
Do you believe that you have found THE TRUTH?
And i promise that I'm asking in the excellent spirit of this thread.
Religion can be individually helpful and provides a sense of community. It is belief and opinion. Ultimately it is a matter of faith that cannot be proven one or other.
With all due respect to Addick in SW16.
With a clearly poor understanding of the key themes of the book. I find it hard to believe that he knows the bible with comments like that. I have given an example from the bible that demonstrates my point.
There is some truth in that. What is important is the context. Knowing why and when a passage was written and having a background of the particular scripture.
I am a spiritual person but I do not affiliate myself to any organised Religion. I belief in right and wrong and peace and love, the only thing to hate is hate itself.
Whats happening in Iraq is a prime example of this. Extremely conservative Isis Sunni Muslims feel that they can mistreat / murder Yezidi's, Christians and Shia Muslims because they do not believe in their version of religion. It is one of things in religion that I find very contradictory and wrong.
If you just take the bible as a bunch of stories to live your life by - I have no problem with that. I have problems with the content of a lot of them, and it's frankly ridiculous to live your life by some of them 2000 years later as they have zero relevance to how we live today - but as a concept, if you just take the 'peace and love' and ignore the 'eye for an eye' stuff, that's great.
What I do have an issue with, is people attempting to 'justify' their faith by trying to 'prove' that God exists. Surely, if God DOES exist, then why do you need to prove it?
thanks for reply and honesty (but as a good Christian I'd expect nothing less, right
so.... in saying this:
"Yes (I believe i have found THE TRUTH). There are lots of theories out there and they can't all be true. I strongly believe that in Jesus I've found the answer."
You also believe that all those other theories (e.g. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Taoists, pantheists, athiests etc.) are wrong and adherents to those faiths are wrong in their world view.
is that also a correct representation of your views?
again, i promise you this is all meant in the good spirit of this fine thread.