In a game of mistakes, did the ref make one at the end ?
Looked very harsh after seeing in slow motion. At best, it should of been a scrum to Aussies.
Fantastic effort by Scotland.
Foley kept his nerve at the end, after having a poor game by his high standards.
The game was won by the Aussies great line outs.
The Aussies have had 3 hard games against England, Wales and Scotland. Argentina have had an easier route to the semi final.The Aussies should still win but the Pumas have improved so much in the last 4 years.
World Rugby have just put out a statement, that the Referee made a mistake and it should have been a scrum for the Aussies. No Penalty.
As much as the ref getting it wrong, why didn't the TMO speak to the ref at the time. Does he only get involved if the ref requests?
In a game of mistakes, did the ref make one at the end ?
Looked very harsh after seeing in slow motion. At best, it should of been a scrum to Aussies.
Fantastic effort by Scotland.
Foley kept his nerve at the end, after having a poor game by his high standards.
The game was won by the Aussies great line outs.
The Aussies have had 3 hard games against England, Wales and Scotland. Argentina have had an easier route to the semi final.The Aussies should still win but the Pumas have improved so much in the last 4 years.
World Rugby have just put out a statement, that the Referee made a mistake and it should have been a scrum for the Aussies. No Penalty.
As much as the ref getting it wrong, why didn't the TMO speak to the ref at the time. Does he only get involved if the ref requests?
TMO is only to be involved in certain instances, including the build up to a try, but not every penalty decision.
I have previously always rated Joubert as one of the very best referees .. no longer though .. of course he made a total mess of the last and very vital decision .. why he did not refer to the replay referee we will never know .. to my mind if the ball had come off an Australian, the game should just have carried on as offside, either accidental or deliberate only occurs if the last touch came from a teammate .. I am so sorry for Scotland (loath as I am to type this), a once in every 20 years performance only to be robbed at the very end. For a country with only 2 top professional clubs, they have done superbly, although of course, as with the other northern hemisphere nations, Scotland has made liberal use of overseas imported players, as indeed have New Zealand and Australia
Unfortunate Ireland ? .. we will never know how the injuries affected the result of their game .. whatever, Argentina thanks to their participation in the southern hemisphere international tournament, are unrecognisable from the muddy, tough scrummagers unable to pass the ball, of a few years ago .. Like the footballers, it is all about clinical finishing and taking chances .... Aguerro, Tevez, Batistuta, Maradonna, Kempes, etc. etc. all experts at keeping cool and scoring .. the rugby players are now doing exactly the same
For what it's worth, which is not much, my view is that the main problem with rugby is the points system. It cannot be right that a try - which is usually a lot of hard work to get - is only worth five points (plus the conversion points) but, for example, some trivial foul back on the half way line costs a team three points. It's like two free kicks in football being worth more than a goal. Last season in football the very best free kick taker in Europe scored with less than 25% of his efforts. A certain Cristiano Ronaldo scored once from 24 attempts. What's the success rate in rugby? I think I read somewhere that Leigh Halfpenny has a success rating of over 90%! (Obviously with kicks close enough to have a go with). With twenty odd penalties per match and let's say half of those being kickable, that's going to be 15 points per game per team. The equivalent of three tries each It's all got rather silly. Either the points awarded need to be reduced or some offences need to be reclassified as something less than a penalty, probably a free kick into touch for a lineout rather than a direct punt at the posts.
I sort of see where you are coming from but the game has never just been about tries. Also consider that most penalties are awarded due to pressure applied by strong forward play at the breakdowns - maybe reducing a penalty to 2 points would balance it better.
Bear in mind that when the rules of rugby football were first codified a try was worth precisely zero points - all it earned was a 'try' at kicking a goal.
I have previously always rated Joubert as one of the very best referees .. no longer though .. of course he made a total mess of the last and very vital decision .. why he did not refer to the replay referee we will never know .. to my mind if the ball had come off an Australian, the game should just have carried on as offside, either accidental or deliberate only occurs if the last touch came from a teammate .. I am so sorry for Scotland (loath as I am to type this), a once in every 20 years performance only to be robbed at the very end. For a country with only 2 top professional clubs, they have done superbly, although of course, as with the other northern hemisphere nations, Scotland has made liberal use of overseas imported players, as indeed have New Zealand and Australia
Unfortunate Ireland ? .. we will never know how the injuries affected the result of their game .. whatever, Argentina thanks to their participation in the southern hemisphere international tournament, are unrecognisable from the muddy, tough scrummagers unable to pass the ball, of a few years ago .. Like the footballers, it is all about clinical finishing and taking chances .... Aguerro, Tevez, Batistuta, Maradonna, Kempes, etc. etc. all experts at keeping cool and scoring .. the rugby players are now doing exactly the same
For what it's worth, which is not much, my view is that the main problem with rugby is the points system. It cannot be right that a try - which is usually a lot of hard work to get - is only worth five points (plus the conversion points) but, for example, some trivial foul back on the half way line costs a team three points. It's like two free kicks in football being worth more than a goal. Last season in football the very best free kick taker in Europe scored with less than 25% of his efforts. A certain Cristiano Ronaldo scored once from 24 attempts. What's the success rate in rugby? I think I read somewhere that Leigh Halfpenny has a success rating of over 90%! (Obviously with kicks close enough to have a go with). With twenty odd penalties per match and let's say half of those being kickable, that's going to be 15 points per game per team. The equivalent of three tries each It's all got rather silly. Either the points awarded need to be reduced or some offences need to be reclassified as something less than a penalty, probably a free kick into touch for a lineout rather than a direct punt at the posts.
I sort of see where you are coming from but the game has never just been about tries. Also consider that most penalties are awarded due to pressure applied by strong forward play at the breakdowns - maybe reducing a penalty to 2 points would balance it better.
Bear in mind that when the rules of rugby football were first codified a try was worth precisely zero points - all it earned was a 'try' at kicking a goal.
It's just to a non rugby expert, the infringements that lead to penalties seem disproportionate to the punishment. Of course the drawback of making a try worth more, is that the incentive to stop the try by giving away the penalty becomes greater!
Feel for Joubert. Completely thrown under the bus by world rugby.
Well the bloke should have made the right decision then. Threw himself under the bus if anything. Refreshing honesty from the rugby hierarchy - wish other sports would follow suit.
Mistakes get made though, Joubert is only human...
Don't get this as people don't want AI to eventually come in take all our jobs away, but if people cant accept that mistakes get made in life, maybe robots doing all the jobs is the only way to cut them out (What will us Humans do then?)
At the end of the day Joubert, is only allowed certain tools to do his job, if he wasn't allowed TMO then the people who don't let Referees use it should be the ones answering if anyone surely?
Funnily enough the Welsh Premiership is trialling a new rugby scoring system - 6 points for a try, 2pts for a conversion, drop goals and penalties are 2pts each.
If it is a success it could perhaps be adopted further.
I have previously always rated Joubert as one of the very best referees .. no longer though .. of course he made a total mess of the last and very vital decision .. why he did not refer to the replay referee we will never know .. to my mind if the ball had come off an Australian, the game should just have carried on as offside, either accidental or deliberate only occurs if the last touch came from a teammate .. I am so sorry for Scotland (loath as I am to type this), a once in every 20 years performance only to be robbed at the very end. For a country with only 2 top professional clubs, they have done superbly, although of course, as with the other northern hemisphere nations, Scotland has made liberal use of overseas imported players, as indeed have New Zealand and Australia
Unfortunate Ireland ? .. we will never know how the injuries affected the result of their game .. whatever, Argentina thanks to their participation in the southern hemisphere international tournament, are unrecognisable from the muddy, tough scrummagers unable to pass the ball, of a few years ago .. Like the footballers, it is all about clinical finishing and taking chances .... Aguerro, Tevez, Batistuta, Maradonna, Kempes, etc. etc. all experts at keeping cool and scoring .. the rugby players are now doing exactly the same
For what it's worth, which is not much, my view is that the main problem with rugby is the points system. It cannot be right that a try - which is usually a lot of hard work to get - is only worth five points (plus the conversion points) but, for example, some trivial foul back on the half way line costs a team three points. It's like two free kicks in football being worth more than a goal. Last season in football the very best free kick taker in Europe scored with less than 25% of his efforts. A certain Cristiano Ronaldo scored once from 24 attempts. What's the success rate in rugby? I think I read somewhere that Leigh Halfpenny has a success rating of over 90%! (Obviously with kicks close enough to have a go with). With twenty odd penalties per match and let's say half of those being kickable, that's going to be 15 points per game per team. The equivalent of three tries each It's all got rather silly. Either the points awarded need to be reduced or some offences need to be reclassified as something less than a penalty, probably a free kick into touch for a lineout rather than a direct punt at the posts.
Good post: there are currently moves to possibly change the points scoring system for the better. In one of the Welsh leagues this season (I think, you'll need to check this), experimental scoring is in place: 6 points for a try, and 2 points for all successful kicks, conversions, penalties and drops .. the problem is of course that as the value of a penalty decreases, there is more incentive to commit an offence, especially to stop a try. American football might have the best scoring system for 'handling/running football games', 6pts for a try/touchdown, 3 for a field goal/penalty and 1for a conversion/point after. I would advocate that all Rugby conversions be taken from in front of the posts. It is usually the case that tries scored wide out, the ones where the conversion is difficult, are more spectacular than a scrambled rush over near the posts.
Of course, in the current furore around the Scots/Aus game, Australia scored 5 tries, Scotland 3 .... under a better system, Australia would have been outta sight when d'affair Joubert happened. Last word, it is VERY out of order how Joubert has been hung drawn and quartered by the RFU hierarchies. He is an honourable man who made a mistake under pressure, nothing more or less
I reckon that will lead to more foul play - much better to hold on to the ball, go in off your feet if you are only going to lose 2 points and save a potential 8 points.
Refs can award penalty tries if a side persistently infringes.
no ... at present only if it was likely that a try would have been scored if it were not for the infringement .. persistent infringing means a yellow card
Feel for Joubert. Completely thrown under the bus by world rugby.
Well the bloke should have made the right decision then. Threw himself under the bus if anything. Refreshing honesty from the rugby hierarchy - wish other sports would follow suit.
Mistakes get made though, Joubert is only human...
Don't get this as people don't want AI to eventually come in take all our jobs away, but if people cant accept that mistakes get made in life, maybe robots doing all the jobs is the only way to cut them out (What will us Humans do then?)
At the end of the day Joubert, is only allowed certain tools to do his job, if he wasn't allowed TMO then the people who don't let Referees use it should be the ones answering if anyone surely?
Agree ForeverAd. Having refereed adult league level rugby (abroad) I believe all referees know they make mistakes - it's in the nature of the game and it's complexities - and all players and fans know they do too and accept it.
He made a mistake. He knows it and we all know it, so world rugby saying it is, to my mind refreshingly honest.
I dont see them criticising him, just saying 'yes that decision (crucial though it was) was wrong'
I dont see them 'throwing him under a bus' which was the statement I was responding to.
I'm Scottish and bitter so my opinion is probably worthless.
That said, what rankles with me is not the error (mistakes happen) but the speed and keenness with which he gave the decision - he just couldn't wait - and his cowardly exit. Chunt of the highest order. Shame.
How on earth are Carter and Nonu "finished" after this tournament? Ripping Australia apart this afternoon.
Time to give someone else from New Zealand a chance, guessing they're not short of quality so players can retire when they want as they know the National Team will be safe
Comments
Bear in mind that when the rules of rugby football were first codified a try was worth precisely zero points - all it earned was a 'try' at kicking a goal.
Don't get this as people don't want AI to eventually come in take all our jobs away, but if people cant accept that mistakes get made in life, maybe robots doing all the jobs is the only way to cut them out (What will us Humans do then?)
At the end of the day Joubert, is only allowed certain tools to do his job, if he wasn't allowed TMO then the people who don't let Referees use it should be the ones answering if anyone surely?
If it is a success it could perhaps be adopted further.
American football might have the best scoring system for 'handling/running football games', 6pts for a try/touchdown, 3 for a field goal/penalty and 1for a conversion/point after.
I would advocate that all Rugby conversions be taken from in front of the posts. It is usually the case that tries scored wide out, the ones where the conversion is difficult, are more spectacular than a scrambled rush over near the posts.
Of course, in the current furore around the Scots/Aus game, Australia scored 5 tries, Scotland 3 .... under a better system, Australia would have been outta sight when d'affair Joubert happened.
Last word, it is VERY out of order how Joubert has been hung drawn and quartered by the RFU hierarchies. He is an honourable man who made a mistake under pressure, nothing more or less
There is a play-off for fifth place in the Rugby Word Cup.
It's called the Six Nations.
Having refereed adult league level rugby (abroad) I believe all referees know they make mistakes - it's in the nature of the game and it's complexities - and all players and fans know they do too and accept it.
He made a mistake. He knows it and we all know it, so world rugby saying it is, to my mind refreshingly honest.
I dont see them criticising him, just saying 'yes that decision (crucial though it was) was wrong'
I dont see them 'throwing him under a bus' which was the statement I was responding to.
That said, what rankles with me is not the error (mistakes happen) but the speed and keenness with which he gave the decision - he just couldn't wait - and his cowardly exit. Chunt of the highest order. Shame.
Could we check that on TMO as i Believe it was a Spear tackle
and then a forward pass!
I think Nonu is moving to Toulon so can't play.