so surely it is down to a more generous benefits system.
That's quite a jump you have made there, could it possibly be we have lower unemployment than France? Could it be our taxes are lower than France?
The idea that you can just rock up to the UK, start claiming benefits is largely nonsense. The myth peddled by the far right about millions doing it is absurd as well.
We are on the same side in this debate generally but I've got to point out that the Polish Foreign Minister said on the Marr show a few weeks back that we do give benefits without a qualifying period whereas the Poles have such a period (I think he said six months), and he said Poland would fully accept our right to make such an adjustment. So that the hardworking Poles in the UK don't get it in the neck because of a few chancers.
It may not be the only or main solution but it surely must be an issue if even the Poles are telling us to adjust it.
A ring of barbed wire to keep out Johnny Foreigner is the only way forward.
Nobody is saying that.
It's about controlled immigration - both from the EU abnd elsewhere.
So no unskilled people allowed basically?
Yet again, no one has said that.
Tell me what you see as wrong with controlling immigration - either the volume or the quality?
So many posters trying to infer that anyone who considers some kind of controls on the current levels of immigration into this country as nothing but xenophobic wrong 'uns.
Be as flipant as you like, but it would appear that to the good people of Rochester and Strood it is a massive problem.
OK here is a question for you. Why don't "so many posters" push first for other measures which could be implemented to reduce immigration and population growth, such as
1. Tougher restrictions on non -EU immigrants. Such as the Danes have 2. Harmonisation of benefits so that we are not so attractive to EU economic migrants. Such as the Poles have suggested 3. Alter the tax regime to encourage people not to have so many children 4. Invest in a competent HMRC elite team to nail non-dom foreigners tax affairs, and those of global companies. The receipts to be be used directly for affordable housing schemes.
Why not do these things first rather than bang on about the EU? We can do them tomorrow.
You in favour?
100% with all of these. There must be dozens of similar ideas - but I'm yet to see anyone who have these policies in their manifesto.
I wonder if an EU wide benefits system could be topped up by a local system which you had paid tax for 5 years - something like that anyway (wrote that before watching that vid)
It's not just about space for building houses, it's the whole infrastructure of the UK. There are serious issues with supply of the most basic services (Transport, Education, NHS, etc) at current population levels. These are not going to go away over night.
Power supplies (Coal Fired Power stations are disappearing to help reduce Carbon emmissions)and the supply of fresh drinking water and the subsequent removal and treatment of foul water are just two that haven't even been mentioned yet.
But, the net contributions EU migrants are making should be used for these things instead it is being used to cut the deficit.
Ah - the old spend, spend, spend mantra. So easy to say when it isn't your money.
One of the reasons why we're in this mess and having to pay down the excesses of the last Government. And their on book record of expenditure on infrastructure was one of the lowest in history.
If everything was the fault of the Labour Government then why was there an economic crisis in every country in the world that just happened to occur at the same time Gordon Brown was PM. Easy for the current nobility in charge to scapegoat Brown when in truth what happened here happened all around the world and would have happened if we had Ebenezer Scrooge in charge at the time.
Change the record. Its discredited.
Eh? By who? Who discredited it?
No you're right. Gordon Brown was solely responsible for the recession in the whole of Europe. North America, Japan, China and anywhere else the Tory press can hang on him.
Or
Maybe the recession that hit us was exactly the same one that hit the rest of the industrialised world.
A ring of barbed wire to keep out Johnny Foreigner is the only way forward.
Nobody is saying that.
It's about controlled immigration - both from the EU abnd elsewhere.
So no unskilled people allowed basically?
Yet again, no one has said that.
Tell me what you see as wrong with controlling immigration - either the volume or the quality?
So many posters trying to infer that anyone who considers some kind of controls on the current levels of immigration into this country as nothing but xenophobic wrong 'uns.
Be as flipant as you like, but it would appear that to the good people of Rochester and Strood it is a massive problem.
OK here is a question for you. Why don't "so many posters" push first for other measures which could be implemented to reduce immigration and population growth, such as
1. Tougher restrictions on non -EU immigrants. Such as the Danes have 2. Harmonisation of benefits so that we are not so attractive to EU economic migrants. Such as the Poles have suggested 3. Alter the tax regime to encourage people not to have so many children 4. Invest in a competent HMRC elite team to nail non-dom foreigners tax affairs, and those of global companies. The receipts to be be used directly for affordable housing schemes.
Why not do these things first rather than bang on about the EU? We can do them tomorrow.
You in favour?
100% in favour. The only reason I'm not pushing for them on here, is because it was mainly an EU debate.
Fair enough. But @Addickted tells us that 'the good people" of Rochester and Strood are concerned mainly about immigration,and as a result they are going to elect UKIP, a party whose only recognisable policy is to take us out of the EU.
To depersonalised earlier points, there are plenty of English pensioners living in Spain for the weather, the prices and the cost of property. Surely by freeing up SE England demand they are helping out?! It happens they can use Spanish health paid for by the NHS. And it has just been revealed that any EU citizen using the NHS could be recharged to their government. People work hard, make their choices, retire then push up the daisies! People have been cashing in on London property for generations and that's why they are prepared to pay a ridiculous price/mortgage. As someone posted above, the same urban/ rural discussion can be had about choices within a country as well as people movements within EU countries. And a minimum benefits level across the EU might well help harmonise things / take this off of the agenda. I have no idea what benefits and health cover is available across new and old EU members but it might help inform the debate if this were published. But here's the thing: recent research shows that immigrants are less likely than UK born adults to be claiming benefits.
The economic side of cutting benefits is a nonsense! The working poor on minimum wage are going to spend 110% of their cash on living. Increasing the minimum wage and benefits will inject cash into the economy far quicker than investment or bank bailouts. Right now there is a risk of deflation partly because both prices and average disposable income is going down. The irony is that this in itself creates social instability, job losses etc...which in turn some choose to blame on people who have been here five minutes!
Re global over population it tends to be developing countries (not developed) that have high birthrate...UK France etc have a stable or even declining rate? I won't get into precise demographics as I know nothing about it...just that the world population is getting very big very quickly...and that this is a far bigger issue/threat than 250,000 net immigration.
There is a story in todays papers where a company who make sandwiches for M&S plus others, is opening a new factory in Northampton and despite trying to recruit in the local area they have been unable to, due to the low unemployment in the area, they are now recruiting in Hungary approximatley 300 people required. I have to ask why they were allowed to build the factory in the first place when the local population were unable to staff it.
There is a story in todays papers where a company who make sandwiches for M&S plus others, is opening a new factory in Northampton and despite trying to recruit in the local area they have been unable to, due to the low unemployment in the area, they are now recruiting in Hungary approximatley 300 people required. I have to ask why they were allowed to build the factory in the first place when the local population were unable to staff it.
Why are they recruiting from Hungary ? Why are they not recruiting from the wider UK ?
A ring of barbed wire to keep out Johnny Foreigner is the only way forward.
Nobody is saying that.
It's about controlled immigration - both from the EU abnd elsewhere.
So no unskilled people allowed basically?
Yet again, no one has said that.
Tell me what you see as wrong with controlling immigration - either the volume or the quality?
So many posters trying to infer that anyone who considers some kind of controls on the current levels of immigration into this country as nothing but xenophobic wrong 'uns.
Be as flipant as you like, but it would appear that to the good people of Rochester and Strood it is a massive problem.
OK here is a question for you. Why don't "so many posters" push first for other measures which could be implemented to reduce immigration and population growth, such as
1. Tougher restrictions on non -EU immigrants. Such as the Danes have 2. Harmonisation of benefits so that we are not so attractive to EU economic migrants. Such as the Poles have suggested 3. Alter the tax regime to encourage people not to have so many children 4. Invest in a competent HMRC elite team to nail non-dom foreigners tax affairs, and those of global companies. The receipts to be be used directly for affordable housing schemes.
Why not do these things first rather than bang on about the EU? We can do them tomorrow.
You in favour?
100% in favour. The only reason I'm not pushing for them on here, is because it was mainly an EU debate.
Fair enough. But @Addickted tells us that 'the good people" of Rochester and Strood are concerned mainly about immigration,and as a result they are going to elect UKIP, a party whose only recognisable policy is to take us out of the EU.
The answer is, as Addickted said.
No party is attempting to do any of those type of things that you have quite correctly suggested.
Vince Cable has called for increased immigration.
Labour are saying they now want to reduce immigration, but whether they actually do is questionable.
The Tories are/say they are trying to reduce immigration and are miserably failing to meet their targets.
If UKIP get us out of the EU, then immigration will surely fall massively. That is why. No other parties are doing anything about it, whether wilfully or unsuccessfully.
Migration within nations causes problems too. One of the reasons why Cornwall wants greater autonomy is to gain powers to ensure what's left of the property owned by those who were born or grew up in Cornwall isn't bought up by rich Londoners like much of the desirable property there already has been.
Of course where that old argument falls down is when you point out that those doing the selling were born or grew up in Cornwall, and they set the price they want for their property.
Nothing to stop them from selling it at a reasonable price to Jethro and his young family down the road, but they are happy to cash in and take the incomers extra £££, and then have the temerity to blame those incomers for the situation.
The point is that when a supply of a limited, finite resource such as desirable land is far smaller than the demand, it is allocated as per ability to afford rather than need. What you're describing is known as tragedy of the commons where individuals cannot be relied upon to act on the best interests of a group if being selfish is more rewarding. It doesn't undermine the argument that left to pure market forces, rich outsiders will be able to outbid those native to an area, thus harming the community.
PARKLIFE!
;-)
I think it does undermine the argument. So we will have to agree to disagree...
The two applications to join the EU were made by the Conservatives. The one referendum was run by the Labour Government. There is still a sizeable minority of Labour members who have always been against membership and would campaign so in a new Referendum. The Left has traditionally been the most anti European, as led by Tony Benn.
Enough already with everything bad in the EU is Labours fault!
Personally I am in favour of membership and reform but have always been against the Euro. At a time where we could use the support of other EU countries whose populations have many similar concerns to ours, the Government is in self - imposed exile
I wonder if an EU wide benefits system could be topped up by a local system which you had paid tax for 5 years - something like that anyway (wrote that before watching that vid)
Decent idea that, in every sense of the word, Raz. Fits with the European sense of a basic decent way of life, while allowing freedom for each country to have its own policies. Makes everything so much more transparent. Maybe five years is too tough, but the principle is excellent.
It's not just about space for building houses, it's the whole infrastructure of the UK. There are serious issues with supply of the most basic services (Transport, Education, NHS, etc) at current population levels. These are not going to go away over night.
Power supplies (Coal Fired Power stations are disappearing to help reduce Carbon emmissions)and the supply of fresh drinking water and the subsequent removal and treatment of foul water are just two that haven't even been mentioned yet.
But, the net contributions EU migrants are making should be used for these things instead it is being used to cut the deficit.
Ah - the old spend, spend, spend mantra. So easy to say when it isn't your money.
One of the reasons why we're in this mess and having to pay down the excesses of the last Government. And their on book record of expenditure on infrastructure was one of the lowest in history.
If everything was the fault of the Labour Government then why was there an economic crisis in every country in the world that just happened to occur at the same time Gordon Brown was PM. Easy for the current nobility in charge to scapegoat Brown when in truth what happened here happened all around the world and would have happened if we had Ebenezer Scrooge in charge at the time.
Change the record. Its discredited.
Eh? By who? Who discredited it?
No you're right. Gordon Brown was solely responsible for the recession in the whole of Europe. North America, Japan, China and anywhere else the Tory press can hang on him.
Or
Maybe the recession that hit us was exactly the same one that hit the rest of the industrialised world.
As the yanks would say "go figure"
So you arent going to answer the question then? Has anyone claimed what you have written? Have I? Just more vacuous name calling? Astonishingly blinkered avoidance of the management of the UK economy which even Milliband has acknowledged as being at fault, as have many others of the Labour party. Last I looked they could not be described as the Tory press. Start here at the tory press bastion, The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/01/gordon-brown-labour-lost-credibility-economy
There is a story in todays papers where a company who make sandwiches for M&S plus others, is opening a new factory in Northampton and despite trying to recruit in the local area they have been unable to, due to the low unemployment in the area, they are now recruiting in Hungary approximatley 300 people required. I have to ask why they were allowed to build the factory in the first place when the local population were unable to staff it.
Why are they recruiting from Hungary ? Why are they not recruiting from the wider UK ?
Why indeed? So maybe instead of people aiming their scope at immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves, save your ire for the companies who love a bit of cheap labour. Those at the top love it when those at the bottom (indigenous working class and newcomers) squabble amongst ourselves as it means we're too pre-occupied to actually focus on the cause of the problem.
The two applications to join the EU were made by the Conservatives. The one referendum was run by the Labour Government. There is still a sizeable minority of Labour members who have always been against membership and would campaign so in a new Referendum. The Left has traditionally been the most anti European, as led by Tony Benn.
Enough already with everything bad in the EU is Labours fault!
Personally I am in favour of membership and reform but have always been against the Euro. At a time where we could use the support of other EU countries whose populations have many similar concerns to ours, the Government is in self - imposed exile
I'm afraid your first paragraph is largely irrellevent. The Labour Party, as of today are pro The EU and that is what counts today. Not what Tony Benn said many years ago.
No one has said everything bad in the EU is Labour's fault, so I don't understand why you would try to muddy the waters, with that statement ?
Let's stick to present day facts. (I admit that I am not beyond criticism myself in this discussion).
There is a story in todays papers where a company who make sandwiches for M&S plus others, is opening a new factory in Northampton and despite trying to recruit in the local area they have been unable to, due to the low unemployment in the area, they are now recruiting in Hungary approximatley 300 people required. I have to ask why they were allowed to build the factory in the first place when the local population were unable to staff it.
Why are they recruiting from Hungary ? Why are they not recruiting from the wider UK ?
I believe this story is in the Daily Fail. Front page story as I heard on the Today paper review.
So I kind of doubt we have the full story here. As you say, why Hungary? Trust me, sandwiches are not a Hungarian specialty....
A ring of barbed wire to keep out Johnny Foreigner is the only way forward.
Nobody is saying that.
It's about controlled immigration - both from the EU abnd elsewhere.
So no unskilled people allowed basically?
Yet again, no one has said that.
Tell me what you see as wrong with controlling immigration - either the volume or the quality?
So many posters trying to infer that anyone who considers some kind of controls on the current levels of immigration into this country as nothing but xenophobic wrong 'uns.
Be as flipant as you like, but it would appear that to the good people of Rochester and Strood it is a massive problem.
OK here is a question for you. Why don't "so many posters" push first for other measures which could be implemented to reduce immigration and population growth, such as
1. Tougher restrictions on non -EU immigrants. Such as the Danes have 2. Harmonisation of benefits so that we are not so attractive to EU economic migrants. Such as the Poles have suggested 3. Alter the tax regime to encourage people not to have so many children 4. Invest in a competent HMRC elite team to nail non-dom foreigners tax affairs, and those of global companies. The receipts to be be used directly for affordable housing schemes.
Why not do these things first rather than bang on about the EU? We can do them tomorrow.
You in favour?
This! But allow me to add: 1) only an EU approach to corporation and value added tax rates, codes, evasion and avoidance is going to work. If we clamp down too hard then companies move elsewhere. Companies will gravitate to territories with less tax and at some other countries expense. (for years the Dutch, Irish and Luxembourg have played this game) 2) The irony is that for the EU to work as a whole it requires harmonisation or at least agreed minimum rates on taxes, benefits. As above whether it's an EU or locally administered standard it would help to be there. And perhaps areas that need low skilled labour due to shortages can offer a top up to subsidise free movement. 3) An agreed approach to non EU immigration. The recent disbandment of Mediterranean naval "lifeguard / rescue" by Italy and others is a real life example of a political response to a very tricky question. Thousands will die but the objective is to stem the trafficking across the med... Perhaps some of these economic refugees aim for the UK? 4) Someone living in Prague is going to have a different perspective to events in the Ukraine and Putin. Again this needs an EU wide approach else we are all screwed! A map from 1989 compared to today was in one of the Sunday papers and the change is dramatic. The proximity of the EU and NATO to Moscow with just Belarus and Ukraine in the middle is shaping up into a situation which needs managing. 5) Similarly our approach to IS, Syria and political/economic refugees in that area is crucial. On that occasion Putin was spot on when Parliament and the US actually voted on whether to arm groups against Assad or not. Fortunately Putin played the veto card at the UN else we would have a much bigger IS today and a lot more utube "recruitment specials"
It may seem like I digress but geopolitical challenges outside of the EU will fuel future refugee and security challenges far more than 100,000 from eastern Europe. I'm not saying the EU is fully competent to handle these issues but it certainly needs to up its game rather than fragment.
Make no mistake, the long game is all about the future of two millennium of European culture and history. We are in it together whether we like it or not!
if and when immigration falls then so will our economy.
You may well be right. But it should also reduce pressure on the NHS, schools, public services and property prices.
Except that the NHS relies upon immigrants labour - perhaps for a whole range of skills and duties. I have no wider experience of education and obviously having to teach English as a second language is a big overhead. But then so are successive ministers of education with their political reforms every few years!
if and when immigration falls then so will our economy.
You may well be right. But it should also reduce pressure on the NHS, schools, public services and property prices.
Except that the NHS relies upon immigrants labour - perhaps for a whole range of skills and duties. I have no wider experience of education and obviously having to teach English as a second language is a big overhead. But then so are successive ministers of education with their political reforms every few years!
That's the whole point of targeted immigration. We need immigrants to run the NHS, so let's continue to get them. I don't think any reasonable person has a problem with that.
It's getting 300 Hungarians to make sandwiches. You can't tell me that there's not 300 unemployed people, closer to Northampton than Hungary who can make a sandwich !
Whose fault I don't know, but for God's sake let's sort it out.
if and when immigration falls then so will our economy.
You may well be right. But it should also reduce pressure on the NHS, schools, public services and property prices.
Except that the NHS relies upon immigrants labour - perhaps for a whole range of skills and duties. I have no wider experience of education and obviously having to teach English as a second language is a big overhead. But then so are successive ministers of education with their political reforms every few years!
That's the whole point of targeted immigration. We need immigrants to run the NHS, so let's continue to get them. I don't think any reasonable person has a problem with that.
It's getting 300 Hungarians to make sandwiches. You can't tell me that there's not 300 unemployed people, closer to Northampton than Hungary who can make a sandwich !
Whose fault I don't know, but for God's sake let's sort it out.
good post .. this is not the first time that a large proportion of the British people's reluctance to do 'demeaning and/or hard work' is an issue ..there must be a quid pro quo .. IF the UK population as a whole wants to cut immigration .. and that is not a given .. then many more must be prepared to live on reduced benefits or take a 'low grade job' ..
I'm sure that many of us have done bad jobs, poorly paid jobs, dirty, demoralising jobs and got on with it because, in my case at least, I was certain that they would not last for too long .. I confess that the thought of making sandwiches on piecework for the next thirty years would not float my boat at all .. as @CoveredEnd writes, IT needs sorting out, problem is what and who will do the sorting ? .. there must be good prospects for better jobs to get, especially young, people motivated and enthused
It's not just about space for building houses, it's the whole infrastructure of the UK. There are serious issues with supply of the most basic services (Transport, Education, NHS, etc) at current population levels. These are not going to go away over night.
Power supplies (Coal Fired Power stations are disappearing to help reduce Carbon emmissions)and the supply of fresh drinking water and the subsequent removal and treatment of foul water are just two that haven't even been mentioned yet.
But, the net contributions EU migrants are making should be used for these things instead it is being used to cut the deficit.
Ah - the old spend, spend, spend mantra. So easy to say when it isn't your money.
One of the reasons why we're in this mess and having to pay down the excesses of the last Government. And their on book record of expenditure on infrastructure was one of the lowest in history.
If everything was the fault of the Labour Government then why was there an economic crisis in every country in the world that just happened to occur at the same time Gordon Brown was PM. Easy for the current nobility in charge to scapegoat Brown when in truth what happened here happened all around the world and would have happened if we had Ebenezer Scrooge in charge at the time.
Change the record. Its discredited.
Eh? By who? Who discredited it?
No you're right. Gordon Brown was solely responsible for the recession in the whole of Europe. North America, Japan, China and anywhere else the Tory press can hang on him.
Or
Maybe the recession that hit us was exactly the same one that hit the rest of the industrialised world.
As the yanks would say "go figure"
So you arent going to answer the question then? Has anyone claimed what you have written? Have I? Just more vacuous name calling? Astonishingly blinkered avoidance of the management of the UK economy which even Milliband has acknowledged as being at fault, as have many others of the Labour party. Last I looked they could not be described as the Tory press. Start here at the tory press bastion, The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/01/gordon-brown-labour-lost-credibility-economy
When posters give a reasoned response you by pass their responses and return to type adding nothing to this excellent discussion.
If you want me to answer why the continual Tory mantra that Gordon Brown destroyed the British economy and Labour were the cause of our financial woes then I think that suggestion is truly discredited by dint of the fact that the whole world crashed at that time also. Nothing to do with Gordon Brown or the Labour Party. It was always certain to happen. Caused by bankers and financial institutions that are stil to this day unanswerable for what we're in many cases crimes. Of course we can't have those posh banker types with mates in every government missing out on their bonuses can we. We just continue to allow them to get away with it with barely a sorry.
Answering a question nobody has asked. OK, carry on believing Gordon was just fine and dandy for banking the UK economy and the country. It's a free world full of all sorts.
Answering a question nobody has asked. OK, carry on believing Gordon was just fine and dandy for banking the UK economy and the country. It's a free world full of all sorts.
Thanks for allowing me my views. That's very magnanimous of you.
Gordon Brown was far from wonderful and the Labour Party took their eye off the ball with regard to some aspects of border control but to lay the blame on him and them for the world financial crisis is complete political rhetoric.
The two applications to join the EU were made by the Conservatives. The one referendum was run by the Labour Government. There is still a sizeable minority of Labour members who have always been against membership and would campaign so in a new Referendum. The Left has traditionally been the most anti European, as led by Tony Benn.
Enough already with everything bad in the EU is Labours fault!
Personally I am in favour of membership and reform but have always been against the Euro. At a time where we could use the support of other EU countries whose populations have many similar concerns to ours, the Government is in self - imposed exile
I'm afraid your first paragraph is largely irrellevent. The Labour Party, as of today are pro The EU and that is what counts today. Not what Tony Benn said many years ago.
No one has said everything bad in the EU is Labour's fault, so I don't understand why you would try to muddy the waters, with that statement ?
Let's stick to present day facts. (I admit that I am not beyond criticism myself in this discussion).
Many statments on this site re the EU start or end with a swipe a Labour and the Lib Dems. Labour was pro Europe when the referendum was held however there was and is a big chunk of Labour membership and support who remain anti EU.
Present day facts are that Labour are committed to remaining an active part of Europe and that there are no plans to surrender further sovereignty.
Again there are problems with the EU and instead of leading the more sceptical elements across Europe to combat them our PM is hiding in a corner Europe bashing to pander to his own party.
Answering a question nobody has asked. OK, carry on believing Gordon was just fine and dandy for banking the UK economy and the country. It's a free world full of all sorts.
Thanks for allowing me my views. That's very magnanimous of you.
Gordon Brown was far from wonderful and the Labour Party took their eye off the ball with regard to some aspects of border control but to lay the blame on him and them for the world financial crisis is complete political rhetoric.
Thank goodness no one has been stupid enough to do that then.
Answering a question nobody has asked. OK, carry on believing Gordon was just fine and dandy for banking the UK economy and the country. It's a free world full of all sorts.
Thanks for allowing me my views. That's very magnanimous of you.
Gordon Brown was far from wonderful and the Labour Party took their eye off the ball with regard to some aspects of border control but to lay the blame on him and them for the world financial crisis is complete political rhetoric.
Thank goodness no one has been stupid enough to do that then.
I'd hate to repeat myself but for the benefit of some people, here it is again:
"...whenever the last Labour government's financial credibility is legitimately called into question, people try to shut down the debate by wrongfully claiming that the critic is blaming Labour for the global financial crisis."
A ring of barbed wire to keep out Johnny Foreigner is the only way forward.
Nobody is saying that.
It's about controlled immigration - both from the EU abnd elsewhere.
So no unskilled people allowed basically?
Yet again, no one has said that.
Tell me what you see as wrong with controlling immigration - either the volume or the quality?
So many posters trying to infer that anyone who considers some kind of controls on the current levels of immigration into this country as nothing but xenophobic wrong 'uns.
Be as flipant as you like, but it would appear that to the good people of Rochester and Strood it is a massive problem.
OK here is a question for you. Why don't "so many posters" push first for other measures which could be implemented to reduce immigration and population growth, such as
1. Tougher restrictions on non -EU immigrants. Such as the Danes have 2. Harmonisation of benefits so that we are not so attractive to EU economic migrants. Such as the Poles have suggested 3. Alter the tax regime to encourage people not to have so many children 4. Invest in a competent HMRC elite team to nail non-dom foreigners tax affairs, and those of global companies. The receipts to be be used directly for affordable housing schemes.
Why not do these things first rather than bang on about the EU? We can do them tomorrow.
You in favour?
100% with all of these. There must be dozens of similar ideas - but I'm yet to see anyone who have these policies in their manifesto.
Vote Prague!
Vote Prague? Like he has got any experience of political campaigning ;-)
Comments
From 02.30 - 04.30 but particularly from 03.30
Highly recommended to everyone who hasn't seen this interview before.
Vote Prague!
Or
Maybe the recession that hit us was exactly the same one that hit the rest of the industrialised world.
As the yanks would say "go figure"
People work hard, make their choices, retire then push up the daisies! People have been cashing in on London property for generations and that's why they are prepared to pay a ridiculous price/mortgage.
As someone posted above, the same urban/ rural discussion can be had about choices within a country as well as people movements within EU countries. And a minimum benefits level across the EU might well help harmonise things / take this off of the agenda. I have no idea what benefits and health cover is available across new and old EU members but it might help inform the debate if this were published. But here's the thing: recent research shows that immigrants are less likely than UK born adults to be claiming benefits.
The economic side of cutting benefits is a nonsense! The working poor on minimum wage are going to spend 110% of their cash on living. Increasing the minimum wage and benefits will inject cash into the economy far quicker than investment or bank bailouts. Right now there is a risk of deflation partly because both prices and average disposable income is going down. The irony is that this in itself creates social instability, job losses etc...which in turn some choose to blame on people who have been here five minutes!
Re global over population it tends to be developing countries (not developed) that have high birthrate...UK France etc have a stable or even declining rate? I won't get into precise demographics as I know nothing about it...just that the world population is getting very big very quickly...and that this is a far bigger issue/threat than 250,000 net immigration.
No party is attempting to do any of those type of things that you have quite correctly suggested.
Vince Cable has called for increased immigration.
Labour are saying they now want to reduce immigration, but whether they actually do is questionable.
The Tories are/say they are trying to reduce immigration and are miserably failing to meet their targets.
If UKIP get us out of the EU, then immigration will surely fall massively. That is why. No other parties are doing anything about it, whether wilfully or unsuccessfully.
;-)
I think it does undermine the argument. So we will have to agree to disagree...
The two applications to join the EU were made by the Conservatives. The one referendum was run by the Labour Government. There is still a sizeable minority of Labour members who have always been against membership and would campaign so in a new Referendum. The Left has traditionally been the most anti European, as led by Tony Benn.
Enough already with everything bad in the EU is Labours fault!
Personally I am in favour of membership and reform but have always been against the Euro. At a time where we could use the support of other EU countries whose populations have many similar concerns to ours, the Government is in self - imposed exile
Has anyone claimed what you have written? Have I? Just more vacuous name calling? Astonishingly blinkered avoidance of the management of the UK economy which even Milliband has acknowledged as being at fault, as have many others of the Labour party. Last I looked they could not be described as the Tory press.
Start here at the tory press bastion, The Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/01/gordon-brown-labour-lost-credibility-economy
Or an admission here from the leader's mouth
'We need to learn some painful truths about where we went wrong and how we lost touch. ''
http://www2.labour.org.uk/ed-miliband---a-new-generation
When posters give a reasoned response you by pass their responses and return to type adding nothing to this excellent discussion.
Why indeed? So maybe instead of people aiming their scope at immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves, save your ire for the companies who love a bit of cheap labour. Those at the top love it when those at the bottom (indigenous working class and newcomers) squabble amongst ourselves as it means we're too pre-occupied to actually focus on the cause of the problem.
No one has said everything bad in the EU is Labour's fault, so I don't understand why you would try to muddy the waters, with that statement ?
Let's stick to present day facts. (I admit that I am not beyond criticism myself in this discussion).
Front page story as I heard on the Today paper review.
So I kind of doubt we have the full story here. As you say, why Hungary? Trust me, sandwiches are not a Hungarian specialty....
But allow me to add:
1) only an EU approach to corporation and value added tax rates, codes, evasion and avoidance is going to work. If we clamp down too hard then companies move elsewhere. Companies will gravitate to territories with less tax and at some other countries expense. (for years the Dutch, Irish and Luxembourg have played this game)
2) The irony is that for the EU to work as a whole it requires harmonisation or at least agreed minimum rates on taxes, benefits. As above whether it's an EU or locally administered standard it would help to be there. And perhaps areas that need low skilled labour due to shortages can offer a top up to subsidise free movement.
3) An agreed approach to non EU immigration. The recent disbandment of Mediterranean naval "lifeguard / rescue" by Italy and others is a real life example of a political response to a very tricky question. Thousands will die but the objective is to stem the trafficking across the med... Perhaps some of these economic refugees aim for the UK?
4) Someone living in Prague is going to have a different perspective to events in the Ukraine and Putin. Again this needs an EU wide approach else we are all screwed! A map from 1989 compared to today was in one of the Sunday papers and the change is dramatic. The proximity of the EU and NATO to Moscow with just Belarus and Ukraine in the middle is shaping up into a situation which needs managing.
5) Similarly our approach to IS, Syria and political/economic refugees in that area is crucial. On that occasion Putin was spot on when Parliament and the US actually voted on whether to arm groups against Assad or not. Fortunately Putin played the veto card at the UN else we would have a much bigger IS today and a lot more utube "recruitment specials"
It may seem like I digress but geopolitical challenges outside of the EU will fuel future refugee and security challenges far more than 100,000 from eastern Europe. I'm not saying the EU is fully competent to handle these issues but it certainly needs to up its game rather than fragment.
Make no mistake, the long game is all about the future of two millennium of European culture and history. We are in it together whether we like it or not!
I have no wider experience of education and obviously having to teach English as a second language is a big overhead. But then so are successive ministers of education with their political reforms every few years!
I don't think any reasonable person has a problem with that.
It's getting 300 Hungarians to make sandwiches. You can't tell me that there's not 300 unemployed people, closer to Northampton than Hungary who can make a sandwich !
Whose fault I don't know, but for God's sake let's sort it out.
I'm sure that many of us have done bad jobs, poorly paid jobs, dirty, demoralising jobs and got on with it because, in my case at least, I was certain that they would not last for too long .. I confess that the thought of making sandwiches on piecework for the next thirty years would not float my boat at all .. as @CoveredEnd writes, IT needs sorting out, problem is what and who will do the sorting ? .. there must be good prospects for better jobs to get, especially young, people motivated and enthused
OK, carry on believing Gordon was just fine and dandy for banking the UK economy and the country.
It's a free world full of all sorts.
Gordon Brown was far from wonderful and the Labour Party took their eye off the ball with regard to some aspects of border control but to lay the blame on him and them for the world financial crisis is complete political rhetoric.
Present day facts are that Labour are committed to remaining an active part of Europe and that there are no plans to surrender further sovereignty.
Again there are problems with the EU and instead of leading the more sceptical elements across Europe to combat them our PM is hiding in a corner Europe bashing to pander to his own party.
"...whenever the last Labour government's financial credibility is legitimately called into question, people try to shut down the debate by wrongfully claiming that the critic is blaming Labour for the global financial crisis."