Answering a question nobody has asked. OK, carry on believing Gordon was just fine and dandy for banking the UK economy and the country. It's a free world full of all sorts.
Thanks for allowing me my views. That's very magnanimous of you.
Gordon Brown was far from wonderful and the Labour Party took their eye off the ball with regard to some aspects of border control but to lay the blame on him and them for the world financial crisis is complete political rhetoric.
Thank goodness no one has been stupid enough to do that then.
I'd hate to repeat myself but for the benefit of some people, here it is again:
"...whenever the last Labour government's financial credibility is legitimately called into question, people try to shut down the debate by wrongfully claiming that the critic is blaming Labour for the global financial crisis."
Just out of interest SHG, why is Britain's economy about the fastest recovering in Europe, with one of the lowest unemployment rates? Do we have saint Brownie to thank?
Just out of interest SHG, why is Britain's economy about the fastest recovering in Europe, with one of the lowest unemployment rates? Do we have saint Brownie to thank?
Maybe it's because it's not being held back as much as other EU countries because of the euro. Inextricably linked but not in. It might also be that the austerity measures brought in are squeezing the bollox out of anyone other than the very well off. The economy is also being helped by the number of immigrants working hard and paying taxes. Might be the superlative skills of George Osborne that's the cause.
Just out of interest SHG, why is Britain's economy about the fastest recovering in Europe, with one of the lowest unemployment rates? Do we have saint Brownie to thank?
How can we have the lowest unemployment rate? The country is full of citizens from other EU countries scrounging our dole... Apparently.
I also note that the unemployment figures are falling just at the same time zero hours contracts are growing. Shameful. Another reason why our economy looks like it's doing well is because it's being paid for by the working man at the moment. The rich and companies are seeing an upturn but everyone else is still seeing the standard of living fall. I know I am.
Just out of interest SHG, why is Britain's economy about the fastest recovering in Europe, with one of the lowest unemployment rates? Do we have saint Brownie to thank?
One "reason" is that we fell lower than Germany and other northern European countries after 2008 (I mean, we suffered worse negative GDP than them) . So we have been recovering from a lower base. Not the only factor, but does need to be borne in mind, when talking about our great "recovery".
As to why we fell lower, I would say it was largely because of our over-dependance on financial services, which were badly regulated. Whether you blame Brown for that, or more Thatcher and Lawson, as I do, is a whole other debate.
I also note that the unemployment figures are falling just at the same time zero hours contracts are growing. Shameful. Another reason why our economy looks like it's doing well is because it's being paid for by the working man at the moment. The rich and companies are seeing an upturn but everyone else is still seeing the standard of living fall. I know I am.
Agree and the problem is the acceptance of dumb selective statistics without any context.
There are a finite number of jobs available and from official figures I think the unemployment rate amongst those from Poland is under 3% compared to the national average of 6%, numbers may be wrong but the point is that the Poles are better at finding work. So no disagreement that immigrants themselves may not be a drain on social welfare fund but what if they are actually displacing existing workers who in turn become unemployed or take lower paid jobs and receive working tax credits and benefit support. We are told it is working people needing a top up to a living income that is one of the biggest drains on the welfare budget.
Unless the effect of increased immigration is to immediately increase wealth and create more jobs paying living wages, surely suddenly increasing our population by whatever mechanism increases the competition for jobs depresses wages and creates more unemployment across the spectrum. If you happen to be a person moving into that spectrum as a result of a sudden influx of new workers you are not benefitting from the additional profitability of business. The longterm result may well be more jobs, but the short term impact is what matters to people who only have one working life to live. Planned immigration is good, immigration driven by unplanned socialist ideology is bad.
The social academics telling people that the "country" is better off with uncontrolled immigration and immigration can do nothing but good, when it patently is untrue, is what is supporting the rise of UKIP. It's anti increase in population we should be talking about, controlling immigration is simply one of the strategies and has nothing to do with racism unless you are racist..
When I moved away from London into Surrey in the early 90's, some local people made it clear to me that I was not particularly welcome.
They claimed that the exodus of commuters from London put a strain on public services and schools. The indigenous population were being forced away by soaring house prices - making it even harder to find anyone to work in schools, hospitals and shops. It was seriously suggested to me that a quota should be applied to the number of people leaving London for the countryside!
Now I've been here for twenty years I too get annoyed when I cannot park anywhere near the station and children have to fight for a place in a local school.
On the other hand, the number of trains to London has doubled and house prices do keep rising so there is an "economic" benefit.
I sometimes wonder whether the government might introduce measures to regulate movement of people into parts of the country which are already crowed. This would be far more effective than controlling immigration and is probably a logical next step if that doesn't work. Be careful what you wish for!
I also note that the unemployment figures are falling just at the same time zero hours contracts are growing. Shameful. Another reason why our economy looks like it's doing well is because it's being paid for by the working man at the moment. The rich and companies are seeing an upturn but everyone else is still seeing the standard of living fall. I know I am.
i think another thing that's pretty shameful is the propaganda being spouted about zero hours contracts. They exist so employers and the employees can stay away from the traditional shackles that come with being an employer and employee. If they're taken out of existence the employer and employee will simply find another way to create that relationship. My father has a couple of zero hour contracts with companies, he's a lorry driver, working class etc. He can only speak highly of being on a zero hour contract. There is some archaic view that companies are either run by a man in a top hat wandering around a factory spinning his gold pocket watch or a bunch of soulless suits in a tall office building. People forget that your worth to a company = hard work + having a decent human relationship with the employer.
How is the standard of living falling? I'm genuinely interested. My standard of living has actually improved significantly in the last few months, I'm self employed, I'm still below the tax threshold and companies seem to be having a lot more money to get me to work for them. Although things wouldn't be incredibly different under a labour government, they would be a bit tougher and I'd have one or two more things to worry about financially. I guess that's why you'd probably class me as a tory, the more money a company makes the better imo. Both my parents were self employed and were forced to go into employment because of how difficult the previous labour government made it to be self employed, or rather, increased the advantages of being employed significantly. So it's from my own personal experience that labour are the ones that would like nothing better than you working for "the man".
Some might argue that the coalition government held back the economy to start with and have now generated a pre-election boom... House prices start rising again new HS3 projects suddenly announced but that is cynical and off topic. The real issue is that while the number of people employed has steadily risen, typical wages have frozen and productivity is going down! High skill, high pay jobs are not expanding. Financial services are being squeezed by regulation and hold more capital over a relatively short period of time so they cut back lending, staff and pay less taxes as a result. Universities are attacked over recruiting high paying overseas students so as to keep some political number down. Shame is that the UK is a global leader in financial services, education and the arts plus some areas of tech. A government that restricts the areas of the economy which are world leaders is always going to stop growth in areas that deliver real value. Low skilled, low wage jobs get people off the dole but not much fun and very little contribution. As long as the top 1% are ok then that's alright ~ reference a book I've heard about which perhaps adds to the debate about the free movement of labour and capital.
Once again next year's election and the debate leading up to it are vital in shaping post 2007-09 crash Britain.
I also note that the unemployment figures are falling just at the same time zero hours contracts are growing. Shameful. Another reason why our economy looks like it's doing well is because it's being paid for by the working man at the moment. The rich and companies are seeing an upturn but everyone else is still seeing the standard of living fall. I know I am.
Right, so if the economy goes down the toilet during Labour's watch, it's a global problem, if it improves under the coalition, it's a global thing, or because the coalition are really nasty, or according to Prague the coup de grace of it being something somehow to do with Thatcher 30 years ago. Teflon stuff. Brilliant. you have, in your own mind, created a win win situation that cannot be challenged.
I also note that the unemployment figures are falling just at the same time zero hours contracts are growing. Shameful. Another reason why our economy looks like it's doing well is because it's being paid for by the working man at the moment. The rich and companies are seeing an upturn but everyone else is still seeing the standard of living fall. I know I am.
Right, so if the economy goes down the toilet during Labour's watch, it's a global problem, if it improves under the coalition, it's a global thing, or because the coalition are really nasty, or according to Prague the coup de grace of it being something somehow to do with Thatcher 30 years ago. Teflon stuff. Brilliant. you have, in your own mind, created a win win situation that cannot be challenged.
Why let facts get in the way of a good argument, eh?
I also note that the unemployment figures are falling just at the same time zero hours contracts are growing. Shameful. Another reason why our economy looks like it's doing well is because it's being paid for by the working man at the moment. The rich and companies are seeing an upturn but everyone else is still seeing the standard of living fall. I know I am.
Right, so if the economy goes down the toilet during Labour's watch, it's a global problem, if it improves under the coalition, it's a global thing, or because the coalition are really nasty, or according to Prague the coup de grace of it being something somehow to do with Thatcher 30 years ago. Teflon stuff. Brilliant. you have, in your own mind, created a win win situation that cannot be challenged.
I think that is the correct party line. Well observed.
I also note that the unemployment figures are falling just at the same time zero hours contracts are growing. Shameful. Another reason why our economy looks like it's doing well is because it's being paid for by the working man at the moment. The rich and companies are seeing an upturn but everyone else is still seeing the standard of living fall. I know I am.
Right, so if the economy goes down the toilet during Labour's watch, it's a global problem, if it improves under the coalition, it's a global thing, or because the coalition are really nasty, or according to Prague the coup de grace of it being something somehow to do with Thatcher 30 years ago. Teflon stuff. Brilliant. you have, in your own mind, created a win win situation that cannot be challenged.
@PragueAddick an article on Greencore being unable to recruit sufficient local workers can be found on the BBC website dated 6th November. In your eyes is the BBC more creditable than the Daily ....? I leave you to fill in the blanks.
Without buying into the very boring right-left blame game the most interesting thing about the UK recovery is that it is largely confined to London and the south-eastern corner.
The rest of the country remains very much in the doldrums and it will be very interesting to see how this plays out electorally next year.
Under the hapless Miliband Labour are struggling but Cameron/Osbourne are not exactly wildly popular either outside the Tory shires.
if and when immigration falls then so will our economy.
You may well be right. But it should also reduce pressure on the NHS, schools, public services and property prices.
Except that the NHS relies upon immigrants labour - perhaps for a whole range of skills and duties. I have no wider experience of education and obviously having to teach English as a second language is a big overhead. But then so are successive ministers of education with their political reforms every few years!
if and when immigration falls then so will our economy.
You may well be right. But it should also reduce pressure on the NHS, schools, public services and property prices.
Except that the NHS relies upon immigrants labour - perhaps for a whole range of skills and duties. I have no wider experience of education and obviously having to teach English as a second language is a big overhead. But then so are successive ministers of education with their political reforms every few years!
if and when immigration falls then so will our economy.
You may well be right. But it should also reduce pressure on the NHS, schools, public services and property prices.
Except that the NHS relies upon immigrants labour - perhaps for a whole range of skills and duties. I have no wider experience of education and obviously having to teach English as a second language is a big overhead. But then so are successive ministers of education with their political reforms every few years!
Comments
Do we have saint Brownie to thank?
Only joking. It isn't gormless George.
They need us as much as we apparently need them
It's all just hot air nonsense
Input
As
Ever
From
NLA
As to why we fell lower, I would say it was largely because of our over-dependance on financial services, which were badly regulated. Whether you blame Brown for that, or more Thatcher and Lawson, as I do, is a whole other debate.
There are a finite number of jobs available and from official figures I think the unemployment rate amongst those from Poland is under 3% compared to the national average of 6%, numbers may be wrong but the point is that the Poles are better at finding work. So no disagreement that immigrants themselves may not be a drain on social welfare fund but what if they are actually displacing existing workers who in turn become unemployed or take lower paid jobs and receive working tax credits and benefit support. We are told it is working people needing a top up to a living income that is one of the biggest drains on the welfare budget.
Unless the effect of increased immigration is to immediately increase wealth and create more jobs paying living wages, surely suddenly increasing our population by whatever mechanism increases the competition for jobs depresses wages and creates more unemployment across the spectrum. If you happen to be a person moving into that spectrum as a result of a sudden influx of new workers you are not benefitting from the additional profitability of business. The longterm result may well be more jobs, but the short term impact is what matters to people who only have one working life to live. Planned immigration is good, immigration driven by unplanned socialist ideology is bad.
The social academics telling people that the "country" is better off with uncontrolled immigration and immigration can do nothing but good, when it patently is untrue, is what is supporting the rise of UKIP. It's anti increase in population we should be talking about, controlling immigration is simply one of the strategies and has nothing to do with racism unless you are racist..
They claimed that the exodus of commuters from London put a strain on public services and schools. The indigenous population were being forced away by soaring house prices - making it even harder to find anyone to work in schools, hospitals and shops. It was seriously suggested to me that a quota should be applied to the number of people leaving London for the countryside!
Now I've been here for twenty years I too get annoyed when I cannot park anywhere near the station and children have to fight for a place in a local school.
On the other hand, the number of trains to London has doubled and house prices do keep rising so there is an "economic" benefit.
I sometimes wonder whether the government might introduce measures to regulate movement of people into parts of the country which are already crowed. This would be far more effective than controlling immigration and is probably a logical next step if that doesn't work. Be careful what you wish for!
How is the standard of living falling? I'm genuinely interested. My standard of living has actually improved significantly in the last few months, I'm self employed, I'm still below the tax threshold and companies seem to be having a lot more money to get me to work for them. Although things wouldn't be incredibly different under a labour government, they would be a bit tougher and I'd have one or two more things to worry about financially. I guess that's why you'd probably class me as a tory, the more money a company makes the better imo. Both my parents were self employed and were forced to go into employment because of how difficult the previous labour government made it to be self employed, or rather, increased the advantages of being employed significantly. So it's from my own personal experience that labour are the ones that would like nothing better than you working for "the man".
The real issue is that while the number of people employed has steadily risen, typical wages have frozen and productivity is going down! High skill, high pay jobs are not expanding. Financial services are being squeezed by regulation and hold more capital over a relatively short period of time so they cut back lending, staff and pay less taxes as a result. Universities are attacked over recruiting high paying overseas students so as to keep some political number down.
Shame is that the UK is a global leader in financial services, education and the arts plus some areas of tech.
A government that restricts the areas of the economy which are world leaders is always going to stop growth in areas that deliver real value. Low skilled, low wage jobs get people off the dole but not much fun and very little contribution. As long as the top 1% are ok then that's alright ~ reference a book I've heard about which perhaps adds to the debate about the free movement of labour and capital.
Once again next year's election and the debate leading up to it are vital in shaping post 2007-09 crash Britain.
Coltheturd
Read
My
Posts
And
Waste
It's
Life
Typing
Responses
Winner
All
Round
Teflon stuff.
Brilliant. you have, in your own mind, created a win win situation that cannot be challenged.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-30004805
Perhaps, that's why they can't recruit UK employees.
Apologies, if it isn't the same company.
http://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Greencore-Reviews-E10632.htm
The rest of the country remains very much in the doldrums and it will be very interesting to see how this plays out electorally next year.
Under the hapless Miliband Labour are struggling but Cameron/Osbourne are not exactly wildly popular either outside the Tory shires.
It's going to be a very messy election.
We don't want to take this argument down the TU route I don't think.
How the hell is relevant in 2014?
I was only joking comrade.