Bruce's comments are misguided in my view but this is not Saudi Arabia, he has every right to express those views if that is what he feels and the 'outrage brigade' really are getting a little tedious now.
We get it, we really do, that rape is a terrible crime and that Evans' conduct and that of his supporters post-conviction has been lamentable but the reaction is getting way over the top now.
What he did - even if his conviction is over turned - was wrong but he is not Adolf Eichmann for Christ's sake - he is a guy who has served over two years inside and now wants to resume his career as a lower-league footballer, he is not running for Prime Minister.
I personally think that Evans should be allowed back into football and am very uncomfortable with the way in which he has been singled our for exclusion whilst others with arguably equally serious crimes have come back into the game.
By the way, please don't waste your time lecturing me about "how would you feel if it was your daughter?" because I have had to cope with someone very close to me going through a dreadful experience in this area - so going down that path doesn't really cut it with me.
We either believe in our tradition of post-custodial rehabilitation or we don't, there cannot be convenient exceptions.
Yep you can be re introduced in society but just not as a footballer
A banker who defrauds can't stay a banker
A teacher who nonces can't teach
Why should a rapist be allowed to return to a privileged position of adulation and be held up as a role model
They shouldn't go off and re deem your soul elsewhere
I'm not disagreeing with you about Evans's situation, necessarily, but it is plainly obvious why a banker caught for fraud can't go back into a bank and why a child molester can't be a teacher. The same link between raping a woman (irrespective as to the circumstances) and plying your trade in a totally male dominant sports team is just not there.
The position of privilege, that I understand to be the huge wealth is, also, in my view, not relevant.
There is a question as to if a rapist should ever be considered for a position by the employer, especially one in the area of entertainment/celebrity - and we are seeing this, mainly due to social media and the public's opinion.
However, in my view, the link between a fraudster handling money or a pedophile being in charge of children is miles away from a convicted rapist being able to play football for a living.
Football is a family community sport at its heart, how could I take my daughter to a game as a fan and have to explain why the player is being called such words that he would be called
Wealth to me is irrelevant, he could create a vast fortune from starting his own business
The position of a professional footballer should come with a morale code and it is one that has vanished beyond recognition
If I was a pro footballer should I have to share my team my enjoyment my dream with a rapist, how would you ever forget what he done
It's unfair to put good honest people in that position
I'm confident your daughter will hear all types of the worst swear words aimed at the ref, lino, players and oppo fans. What may be shouted at Evans wouldn't be much/any worse.
If Evans worked at Sainsbury's he'd still have to work with good honest people.
I don't want him back playing as yet, but your ramblings are holding less weight the more you say.
ce would you want to have to work with a rapist, I don't believe you would you have values you can tell that
This issue is close to my heart I won't say more than that
The thought that if I had to work with one because people say he has a right to return what would my rights be, that I have to leave I have to find alternative employment
There are good people at the clubs this filth is being peddled too that would have to make that choice
Why should they have too
With regards to kids how do you explain to a child what a rapist is, how do you field that question
How do you explain it doesn't matter to those that cheer him and they would
It's about returning a morale code to the game we love
It never said mcormack or Hughes should be allowed to return (not that you ever implied it) but in those cases imo it was a situation that arose that could have happened to me when I made a terrible decision to drive after a night on the lashe with only a few hrs sleep, not a proud announcement, it could be anyone's son daughter mother or child, remember it wasn't long ago it was not frowned upon and was acceptable
But what evans done was not a position I could ever imagine that I could do not would i like to think anyone is know or love could
My stance would be the same god forbid if it was a member of my family, I could never forgive it never forget i would never accept that person to be near me again
If he is guilty he is guilty, if in his attempt to appeal it is over turned I will apologize I will accept that he is the victim and I was implicit in his condemnation and his suffering also that won't sit comfortable that I said the things I have
But right now he is guilty he was found guilty and therefore has no place in the game the joins people and families together
Whether you or anybody wants to work with a rapist is not specifically relevant. The answer is almost certainly no. But in that case, you are asserting that he can never work again.
Explaining "rapist" to a child would be very very difficult, I agree entirely. But not much more difficult than having to explaining why the referee is a W**k**, or another payer is a c**t etc etc.
Yes, there should be a set of codes introduced by the FA, to stop this situation arising in the future.
It is debateable whether a rapist is worse than a drunk driver who has killed someone. I understand what you are saying. I don't know. However, just because you can have imagined yourself killing someone through drink driving, but not raping someone, doesn't necessarily make one criminal act worse than the other.
In summary, I abhor what Evans did & I don't think he should be allowed to play league football at the present time.
But what I am saying, is that in regard to your recent posts on this subject, you are not being entirely logical.
Yep you can be re introduced in society but just not as a footballer
A banker who defrauds can't stay a banker
A teacher who nonces can't teach
Why should a rapist be allowed to return to a privileged position of adulation and be held up as a role model
They shouldn't go off and re deem your soul elsewhere
I'm not disagreeing with you about Evans's situation, necessarily, but it is plainly obvious why a banker caught for fraud can't go back into a bank and why a child molester can't be a teacher. The same link between raping a woman (irrespective as to the circumstances) and plying your trade in a totally male dominant sports team is just not there.
Explaining "rapist" to a child would be very very difficult, I agree entirely. But not much more difficult than having to explaining why the referee is a W**k**, or another payer is a c**t etc etc.
You can't really believe they are at all similar, can you?
Explaining "rapist" to a child would be very very difficult, I agree entirely. But not much more difficult than having to explaining why the referee is a W**k**, or another payer is a c**t etc etc.
You can't really believe they are at all similar, can you?
How many 4 year olds have you explained to what a w**k** is and what a c**t is ?
Sometimes the angst that some can seemingly just accept that these people can be allowed to carry on as normal when the true victim never can causes me to post at a million miles an hr
I don't think that these people should ever be allowed to be employed where they will put them with others, but life doesn't allow it, I am really glad In this case evans is suffering humiliating rejection and down right condemnation for his actions, and struggling to find employment and to probably struggling to come to terms with it
It's his pennants for his behavior it's a fine punishment and a just one
Sometimes the angst that some can seemingly just accept that these people can be allowed to carry on as normal when the true victim never can causes me to post at a million miles an hr
I don't think that these people should ever be allowed to be employed where they will put them with others, but life doesn't allow it, I am really glad In this case evans is suffering humiliating rejection and down right condemnation for his actions, and struggling to find employment and to probably struggling to come to terms with it
It's his pennants for his behavior it's a fine punishment and a just one
I agree with all of that NLA, except the underlined, which is of course, not possible.
I don't know, explain that conundrum like you would do anything else of a delicate nature. Do want somebody else to do it for you, or be given a manual to tell you how?
There are already many, many exceptions to that tradition.
Involving professions such as the law, teaching and accountancy etc - there are no such exceptions to a bloke playing football.
Let's be honest, if Evans were playing for Goole Town then nobody would care, it's the fact he's coming back as a well paid professional that aggravates people.
Without getting into the specifics of this one case but if we take it that a convicted rapist serves time and is released from jail, in the eyes of the law, they have been punished appropriately. If their punishment is served then surely they deserve the chance of rehabilitation - legally at least. SO, who gets to decide what job is 'suitable' for a rapist to do? People can say, he shouldn't be a footballer, or another high profile/well paid job. Fine, but should (for example) someone at a call centre 'need' to work with a rapist, or a murderer? It's a pretty awful job I know that much from experience but saying that criminals deserve that chance more than another seems a pretty flimsy argument.
To me, he should be allowed to find work himself again, if he can. If he can find a club that will take him on as a footballer, then that is on them. If he can't, then he's lost out through his own actions. If there is any justice, he won't ever play again, but it should be because no-one will hire him, not because 'the people' said not to.
@Redskin don't get you. Why do you only really choose contentious subjects to contribute to, and why.post in such an antagonistic way?
Take a step back and ask yourself what you offer to this community in a
Really?
I've never understood the What do I tell my children argument. It's your responsibility as parent to tell your child about sensitive matters in the way you find most appropriate.
Considering some of the casually racist, homophobic, threatening posts I've seen on here - and they are very much in the minority -I'm surprised you single me out for attention
I sometimes make contentious points but I am not alone in that and to say I only choose such subjects is simply untrue; the beards thread off the top of my head
The truth of the matter is, you simply don't like my presence here.
It's your ball, so ban me if you find my being here so at antagonistic to the status quo.
The level of football evans plays the money he earns is of no consequence to my view
Then what is of consequence to your view? Truly, I am not being facetious. Why is one job 'too good' for a convict but another is not? Why should he be 'allowed' to sit in a supermarket scanning food but not be allowed to kick a football, if money is of no consequence to the view? IF he can find a team who will take him on, then he should be allowed to play for them... though I truly hope that never happens.
I look at it in simple terms. If Evans was a plumber, I'd choose to pay a different plumber to fix my bog. If Evans was a movie star, I'd pay to watch a different film. I wouldn't want to make a single pennies contribution to his pocket. If Evans was signed by Oldham and Charlton had drawn them in the FA Cup, my morals would prohibit my attendance at The Valley to support my team and that can't be right.
There are already many, many exceptions to that tradition.
Involving professions such as the law, teaching and accountancy etc - there are no such exceptions to a bloke playing football.
Let's be honest, if Evans were playing for Goole Town then nobody would care, it's the fact he's coming back as a well paid professional that aggravates people.
You said "We either believe in our tradition of post-custodial rehabilitation or we don't, there cannot be convenient exceptions." My point was that those very exceptions already exist. So to suggest adding any other professions would some how destroy some tradition is just not right, in my opinion.
Also thank you for telling me what I would and wouldn't care about. Maybe your world revolves around money but that's not the case for everyone.
There are already many, many exceptions to that tradition.
Involving professions such as the law, teaching and accountancy etc - there are no such exceptions to a bloke playing football.
Let's be honest, if Evans were playing for Goole Town then nobody would care, it's the fact he's coming back as a well paid professional that aggravates people.
You said "We either believe in our tradition of post-custodial rehabilitation or we don't, there cannot be convenient exceptions." My point was that those very exceptions already exist. So to suggest adding any other professions would some how destroy some tradition is just not right, in my opinion.
Also thank you for telling me what I would and wouldn't care about. Maybe your world revolves around money but that's not the case for everyone.
Those exceptions exist in very narrow professional cases - none of which could seriously be applied to a footballer or, indeed, ever have been. Care to show me where they have?
You must find that very frustrating because it blows your argument to smithereens.
We have had a convicted armed robber - Ricky Otto - play for Charlton, I dont seem to remember the moral majority making a song and dance about that. The bloke served his time and rehabilitated himself through football, so armed robbers get a second chance but rapists don't? Who makes these rules up by the way?
Thanks for the bitchy little dig about my world revolving around money, since you wouldn't know me from a bar of soap I have no idea how you can make that judgement.
That being said if you think for one second I give a flying fuck about how some utter irrelevance of a two-bob TEFL teacher thinks about me then you are even more deluded than you come across on here.
There are already many, many exceptions to that tradition.
Involving professions such as the law, teaching and accountancy etc - there are no such exceptions to a bloke playing football.
Let's be honest, if Evans were playing for Goole Town then nobody would care, it's the fact he's coming back as a well paid professional that aggravates people.
You said "We either believe in our tradition of post-custodial rehabilitation or we don't, there cannot be convenient exceptions." My point was that those very exceptions already exist. So to suggest adding any other professions would some how destroy some tradition is just not right, in my opinion.
Also thank you for telling me what I would and wouldn't care about. Maybe your world revolves around money but that's not the case for everyone.
Those exceptions exist in very narrow professional cases - none of which could seriously be applied to a footballer or, indeed, ever have been. Care to show me where they have?
You must find that very frustrating because it blows your argument to smithereens.
We have had a convicted armed robber - Ricky Otto - play for Charlton, I dont seem to remember the moral majority making a song and dance about that. The bloke served his time and rehabilitated himself through football, so armed robbers get a second chance but rapists don't? Who makes these rules up by the way?
Thanks for the bitchy little dig about my world revolving around money, since you wouldn't know me from a bar of soap I have no idea how you can make that judgement.
That being said if you think for one second I give a flying fuck about how some utter irrelevance of a two-bob TEFL teacher thinks about me then you are even more deluded than you come across on here.
I've never once said those rules do exist for football, clearly they don't, however I believe they should exist. I'm not sure how that blows anything to smithereens.
I also wouldn't consider armed robbery as bad as rape. If you think they are, that's your opinion, we're all entitled to one. Being 11 at the time I don't really remember too much about the "song and dance" that was or wasn't made.
Look back through the posts, it was you who made the judgment, saying people only care about Ched due to the money he earns, without knowing anyone.
It's nice to see you resorting to personal insults though, you must be a really nice guy.
Comments
The jury were much better qualified because 1. They had the guidance of the judge and 2. They had been in court and heard ALL evidence .
We get it, we really do, that rape is a terrible crime and that Evans' conduct and that of his supporters post-conviction has been lamentable but the reaction is getting way over the top now.
What he did - even if his conviction is over turned - was wrong but he is not Adolf Eichmann for Christ's sake - he is a guy who has served over two years inside and now wants to resume his career as a lower-league footballer, he is not running for Prime Minister.
I personally think that Evans should be allowed back into football and am very uncomfortable with the way in which he has been singled our for exclusion whilst others with arguably equally serious crimes have come back into the game.
By the way, please don't waste your time lecturing me about "how would you feel if it was your daughter?" because I have had to cope with someone very close to me going through a dreadful experience in this area - so going down that path doesn't really cut it with me.
We either believe in our tradition of post-custodial rehabilitation or we don't, there cannot be convenient exceptions.
A banker who defrauds can't stay a banker
A teacher who nonces can't teach
Why should a rapist be allowed to return to a privileged position of adulation and be held up as a role model
They shouldn't go off and re deem your soul elsewhere
The position of privilege, that I understand to be the huge wealth is, also, in my view, not relevant.
There is a question as to if a rapist should ever be considered for a position by the employer, especially one in the area of entertainment/celebrity - and we are seeing this, mainly due to social media and the public's opinion.
However, in my view, the link between a fraudster handling money or a pedophile being in charge of children is miles away from a convicted rapist being able to play football for a living.
Wealth to me is irrelevant, he could create a vast fortune from starting his own business
The position of a professional footballer should come with a morale code and it is one that has vanished beyond recognition
If I was a pro footballer should I have to share my team my enjoyment my dream with a rapist, how would you ever forget what he done
It's unfair to put good honest people in that position
I'm confident your daughter will hear all types of the worst swear words aimed at the ref, lino, players and oppo fans.
What may be shouted at Evans wouldn't be much/any worse.
If Evans worked at Sainsbury's he'd still have to work with good honest people.
I don't want him back playing as yet, but your ramblings are holding less weight the more you say.
This issue is close to my heart I won't say more than that
The thought that if I had to work with one because people say he has a right to return what would my rights be, that I have to leave I have to find alternative employment
There are good people at the clubs this filth is being peddled too that would have to make that choice
Why should they have too
With regards to kids how do you explain to a child what a rapist is, how do you field that question
How do you explain it doesn't matter to those that cheer him and they would
It's about returning a morale code to the game we love
It never said mcormack or Hughes should be allowed to return (not that you ever implied it) but in those cases imo it was a situation that arose that could have happened to me when I made a terrible decision to drive after a night on the lashe with only a few hrs sleep, not a proud announcement, it could be anyone's son daughter mother or child, remember it wasn't long ago it was not frowned upon and was acceptable
But what evans done was not a position I could ever imagine that I could do not would i like to think anyone is know or love could
My stance would be the same god forbid if it was a member of my family, I could never forgive it never forget i would never accept that person to be near me again
If he is guilty he is guilty, if in his attempt to appeal it is over turned I will apologize I will accept that he is the victim and I was implicit in his condemnation and his suffering also that won't sit comfortable that I said the things I have
But right now he is guilty he was found guilty and therefore has no place in the game the joins people and families together
But in that case, you are asserting that he can never work again.
Explaining "rapist" to a child would be very very difficult, I agree entirely.
But not much more difficult than having to explaining why the referee is a W**k**, or another payer is a c**t etc etc.
Yes, there should be a set of codes introduced by the FA, to stop this situation arising in the future.
It is debateable whether a rapist is worse than a drunk driver who has killed someone. I understand what you are saying. I don't know. However, just because you can have imagined yourself killing someone through drink driving, but not raping someone, doesn't necessarily make one criminal act worse than the other.
In summary, I abhor what Evans did & I don't think he should be allowed to play league football at the present time.
But what I am saying, is that in regard to your recent posts on this subject, you are not being entirely logical.
How did you field that question ?
I don't think that these people should ever be allowed to be employed where they will put them with others, but life doesn't allow it, I am really glad In this case evans is suffering humiliating rejection and down right condemnation for his actions, and struggling to find employment and to probably struggling to come to terms with it
It's his pennants for his behavior it's a fine punishment and a just one
I don't know, explain that conundrum like you would do anything else of a delicate nature. Do want somebody else to do it for you, or be given a manual to tell you how?
Fuck's sake...
Take a step back and ask yourself what you offer to this community in a
Or was it typus interruptus ?
:-)
Positive way!
There was more but its late, cold and windy.
Let's be honest, if Evans were playing for Goole Town then nobody would care, it's the fact he's coming back as a well paid professional that aggravates people.
To me, he should be allowed to find work himself again, if he can. If he can find a club that will take him on as a footballer, then that is on them. If he can't, then he's lost out through his own actions. If there is any justice, he won't ever play again, but it should be because no-one will hire him, not because 'the people' said not to.
I've never understood the What do I tell my children argument. It's your responsibility as parent to tell your child about sensitive matters in the way you find most appropriate.
Considering some of the casually racist, homophobic, threatening posts I've seen on here - and they are very much in the minority -I'm surprised you single me out for attention
I sometimes make contentious points but I am not alone in that and to say I only choose such subjects is simply untrue; the beards thread off the top of my head
The truth of the matter is, you simply don't like my presence here.
It's your ball, so ban me if you find my being here so at antagonistic to the status quo.
If Evans was a plumber, I'd choose to pay a different plumber to fix my bog.
If Evans was a movie star, I'd pay to watch a different film.
I wouldn't want to make a single pennies contribution to his pocket.
If Evans was signed by Oldham and Charlton had drawn them in the FA Cup, my morals would prohibit my attendance at The Valley to support my team and that can't be right.
Also thank you for telling me what I would and wouldn't care about. Maybe your world revolves around money but that's not the case for everyone.
You must find that very frustrating because it blows your argument to smithereens.
We have had a convicted armed robber - Ricky Otto - play for Charlton, I dont seem to remember the moral majority making a song and dance about that. The bloke served his time and rehabilitated himself through football, so armed robbers get a second chance but rapists don't? Who makes these rules up by the way?
Thanks for the bitchy little dig about my world revolving around money, since you wouldn't know me from a bar of soap I have no idea how you can make that judgement.
That being said if you think for one second I give a flying fuck about how some utter irrelevance of a two-bob TEFL teacher thinks about me then you are even more deluded than you come across on here.
I also wouldn't consider armed robbery as bad as rape. If you think they are, that's your opinion, we're all entitled to one. Being 11 at the time I don't really remember too much about the "song and dance" that was or wasn't made.
Look back through the posts, it was you who made the judgment, saying people only care about Ched due to the money he earns, without knowing anyone.
It's nice to see you resorting to personal insults though, you must be a really nice guy.