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Evans back at SUFC (agreed terms with Oldham p.25)

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    I don't believe that society (even a so-called civilised one) should feel obliged to offer rehabilitation without remorse. Without the latter in this case, you have an unrepentant convicted rapist who presumably thus remains a danger to women since he doesn't acknowledge his crime.

    Rape is a near uniquely despicable crime - the bar for accepting a rapist back into society is thus rightly set higher than it is for other crimes.

    Even if the victim had not contacted the police, most reasonable people would consider the actions of Evans and to a lesser extent McDonald to be fairly abhorrent that night (call me too conservative perhaps). The fact that a serious crime did take place renders it considerably more sordid.

    His subsequent public statements, the shameful website (which shoes videos of a rape victim, her face barely concealed), and his pathetic attempts to blame mob rule reveal the truth about the type of person we are dealing with. Lack of intelligence is no defence especially when he can afford proper advice.

    The 40 or so clubs (all with public stakeholders across their communities) which might have considered taking him on have, with only two naive exceptions, recognised that there are bigger issues at stake than the opportunity to acquire a (potentially) good striker on the cheap.
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    And that's why I like you aun
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    There are already many, many exceptions to that tradition.

    Involving professions such as the law, teaching and accountancy etc - there are no such exceptions to a bloke playing football.

    Let's be honest, if Evans were playing for Goole Town then nobody would care, it's the fact he's coming back as a well paid professional that aggravates people.
    You said "We either believe in our tradition of post-custodial rehabilitation or we don't, there cannot be convenient exceptions." My point was that those very exceptions already exist. So to suggest adding any other professions would some how destroy some tradition is just not right, in my opinion.

    Also thank you for telling me what I would and wouldn't care about. Maybe your world revolves around money but that's not the case for everyone.

    We have had a convicted armed robber - Ricky Otto - play for Charlton, I dont seem to remember the moral majority making a song and dance about that. The bloke served his time and rehabilitated himself through football, so armed robbers get a second chance but rapists don't? Who makes these rules up by the way?

    Well seeing as Otto played for us in the days before facebook, twitter and club message boards, how would people have made a fuss anyway? Was there even a club website back then? Most fans probably wouldn't have even known we'd signed him until his name was read out 5 minutes before kick off.
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    I don't believe that society (even a so-called civilised one) should feel obliged to offer rehabilitation without remorse. Without the latter in this case, you have an unrepentant convicted rapist who presumably thus remains a danger to women since he doesn't acknowledge his crime.

    Rape is a near uniquely despicable crime - the bar for accepting a rapist back into society is thus rightly set higher than it is for other crimes.

    Even if the victim had not contacted the police, most reasonable people would consider the actions of Evans and to a lesser extent McDonald to be fairly abhorrent that night (call me too conservative perhaps). The fact that a serious crime did take place renders it considerably more sordid.

    His subsequent public statements, the shameful website (which shoes videos of a rape victim, her face barely concealed), and his pathetic attempts to blame mob rule reveal the truth about the type of person we are dealing with. Lack of intelligence is no defence especially when he can afford proper advice.

    The 40 or so clubs (all with public stakeholders across their communities) which might have considered taking him on have, with only two naive exceptions, recognised that there are bigger issues at stake than the opportunity to acquire a (potentially) good striker on the cheap.

    Seeing that McDonald was found guilty of nothing, I'm not sure why his actions by themselves are any worse than that of the girl. A woman after a few drinks has sex with a bloke she just met. Hardly an unusual occurrence. Indeed isn't that the whole point of Club 18-30 holidays etc?

    Ultimately a (drunk or fairly drunk) woman had sex with 2 men she hardly knew, in one case legally she was deemed to have been a fit state to give consent, in the the other she wasn't. Whatever you might think of Evans, the risk to society from him re-offending is pretty low, hence his relatively early release from prison.
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    Who remembers the 'roasting' scandals a few years ago, in which young footballers, some of whom still have lucrative careers in football were involved.
    Much, nay, everything concerning Evans' future will depend on the findings of the inquiry into his trial and subsequent prison sentence. Until then his career must be on hold, at least in the UK.
    IF and it is a big IF, he is partially or wholly cleared of the rape charge, there will still be the fact that he was involved in what was in effect the 'gang banging' of a drunken young woman, a fact which should make Evans and all his 'mates' who were involved thoroughly ashamed, although I doubt if they will be so. However, IF he IS cleared of rape, he must be allowed to restart his career as a footballer. As I stated at the start of this post, a few young men who were involved in very unsavoury sexual activities years ago resumed their careers and at least one is still playing at the top level.
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    I can categorically state that my opposition to Evans returning to football has absolutely f*** all to do with his potential earnings.

    Then what has it to do with? If it's not the fact he would be high profile and well paid again, why should he NOT be a football player again if he can find a club who will take him?
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    As we approach the thousandth posting on this thread, this BBC article is a good summary of the issues that have developed for football out of the Ched Evans affair
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    edited January 2015

    Who remembers the 'roasting' scandals a few years ago, in which young footballers, some of whom still have lucrative careers in football were involved.
    Much, nay, everything concerning Evans' future will depend on the findings of the inquiry into his trial and subsequent prison sentence. Until then his career must be on hold, at least in the UK.
    IF and it is a big IF, he is partially or wholly cleared of the rape charge, there will still be the fact that he was involved in what was in effect the 'gang banging' of a drunken young woman, a fact which should make Evans and all his 'mates' who were involved thoroughly ashamed, although I doubt if they will be so. However, IF he IS cleared of rape, he must be allowed to restart his career as a footballer. As I stated at the start of this post, a few young men who were involved in very unsavoury sexual activities years ago resumed their careers and at least one is still playing at the top level.

    And played on loan for us - Carlton Cole. His legal case was ongoing while he was on loan to us, although his alleged (and subsequent not guilty) crime was while in the West Ham squad.
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    thenewbie said:

    Without getting into the specifics of this one case but if we take it that a convicted rapist serves time and is released from jail, in the eyes of the law, they have been punished appropriately. If their punishment is served then surely they deserve the chance of rehabilitation - legally at least. SO, who gets to decide what job is 'suitable' for a rapist to do? People can say, he shouldn't be a footballer, or another high profile/well paid job. Fine, but should (for example) someone at a call centre 'need' to work with a rapist, or a murderer? It's a pretty awful job I know that much from experience but saying that criminals deserve that chance more than another seems a pretty flimsy argument.

    To me, he should be allowed to find work himself again, if he can. If he can find a club that will take him on as a footballer, then that is on them. If he can't, then he's lost out through his own actions. If there is any justice, he won't ever play again, but it should be because no-one will hire him, not because 'the people' said not to.

    The second paragraph is exactly how I feel about it and in an ideal world, what should happen. Sadly, football has no morals.
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    edited January 2015

    I don't believe that society (even a so-called civilised one) should feel obliged to offer rehabilitation without remorse. Without the latter in this case, you have an unrepentant convicted rapist who presumably thus remains a danger to women since he doesn't acknowledge his crime.

    Rape is a near uniquely despicable crime - the bar for accepting a rapist back into society is thus rightly set higher than it is for other crimes.

    Even if the victim had not contacted the police, most reasonable people would consider the actions of Evans and to a lesser extent McDonald to be fairly abhorrent that night (call me too conservative perhaps). The fact that a serious crime did take place renders it considerably more sordid.

    His subsequent public statements, the shameful website (which shoes videos of a rape victim, her face barely concealed), and his pathetic attempts to blame mob rule reveal the truth about the type of person we are dealing with. Lack of intelligence is no defence especially when he can afford proper advice.

    The 40 or so clubs (all with public stakeholders across their communities) which might have considered taking him on have, with only two naive exceptions, recognised that there are bigger issues at stake than the opportunity to acquire a (potentially) good striker on the cheap.

    Seeing that McDonald was found guilty of nothing, I'm not sure why his actions by themselves are any worse than that of the girl. A woman after a few drinks has sex with a bloke she just met. Hardly an unusual occurrence. Indeed isn't that the whole point of Club 18-30 holidays etc?

    Ultimately a (drunk or fairly drunk) woman had sex with 2 men she hardly knew, in one case legally she was deemed to have been a fit state to give consent, in the the other she wasn't. Whatever you might think of Evans, the risk to society from him re-offending is pretty low, hence his relatively early release from prison.
    Well the police and CPS concluded there was sufficient evidence to charge McDonald with rape - bear in mind it wasn't the victim who alleged rape as she had no memory of the events. Leaving a very drunk woman who he described as 'sick' naked in a strange hotel room is hardly the behaviour of a gentleman, nor I suspect a typical Club18-30 holidaymaker, not that I have had first hand experience oddly enough. He is a very lucky boy.

    Indeed if any case should scare the life out of any predatory lothario, it is arguably McDonald's and not Evans' since most men with a modicum of decency and respect would not have behaved like the latter did under any circumstances.
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    Kap10 said:

    Who remembers the 'roasting' scandals a few years ago, in which young footballers, some of whom still have lucrative careers in football were involved.
    Much, nay, everything concerning Evans' future will depend on the findings of the inquiry into his trial and subsequent prison sentence. Until then his career must be on hold, at least in the UK.
    IF and it is a big IF, he is partially or wholly cleared of the rape charge, there will still be the fact that he was involved in what was in effect the 'gang banging' of a drunken young woman, a fact which should make Evans and all his 'mates' who were involved thoroughly ashamed, although I doubt if they will be so. However, IF he IS cleared of rape, he must be allowed to restart his career as a footballer. As I stated at the start of this post, a few young men who were involved in very unsavoury sexual activities years ago resumed their careers and at least one is still playing at the top level.

    And played on loan for us - Carlton Cole. His legal case was ongoing while he was on loan to us, although his alleged (and subsequent not guilty) crime was while in the West Ham squad.
    I was loath to mention names (:>)
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    Kap10 said:

    Who remembers the 'roasting' scandals a few years ago, in which young footballers, some of whom still have lucrative careers in football were involved.
    Much, nay, everything concerning Evans' future will depend on the findings of the inquiry into his trial and subsequent prison sentence. Until then his career must be on hold, at least in the UK.
    IF and it is a big IF, he is partially or wholly cleared of the rape charge, there will still be the fact that he was involved in what was in effect the 'gang banging' of a drunken young woman, a fact which should make Evans and all his 'mates' who were involved thoroughly ashamed, although I doubt if they will be so. However, IF he IS cleared of rape, he must be allowed to restart his career as a footballer. As I stated at the start of this post, a few young men who were involved in very unsavoury sexual activities years ago resumed their careers and at least one is still playing at the top level.

    And played on loan for us - Carlton Cole. His legal case was ongoing while he was on loan to us, although his alleged (and subsequent not guilty) crime was while in the West Ham squad.
    I was loath to mention names (:>)
    Well it was published at the time so I think he is alright with naming plus they were detained by the police. Titus Bramble

    Thought it was disgusting at the time but I believe it was consensual so nothing came of it.

    A move away from that culture has to be a good thing.
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    Kap10 said:

    Who remembers the 'roasting' scandals a few years ago, in which young footballers, some of whom still have lucrative careers in football were involved.
    Much, nay, everything concerning Evans' future will depend on the findings of the inquiry into his trial and subsequent prison sentence. Until then his career must be on hold, at least in the UK.
    IF and it is a big IF, he is partially or wholly cleared of the rape charge, there will still be the fact that he was involved in what was in effect the 'gang banging' of a drunken young woman, a fact which should make Evans and all his 'mates' who were involved thoroughly ashamed, although I doubt if they will be so. However, IF he IS cleared of rape, he must be allowed to restart his career as a footballer. As I stated at the start of this post, a few young men who were involved in very unsavoury sexual activities years ago resumed their careers and at least one is still playing at the top level.

    And played on loan for us - Carlton Cole. His legal case was ongoing while he was on loan to us, although his alleged (and subsequent not guilty) crime was while in the West Ham squad.
    I was loath to mention names (:>)
    If it had not been in the public domain I would not have named. Cole and I believe Bramble were accused of rape, but the CPS dropped the case. Whist innocent the case did not put footballers in a very good light and of course led to the chant "You only score when you're roasting."



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    We could very easily be giving McDonald all the grief that Evan's is getting given the near-identical circumstances. As it is, McDonald can play again without any gripe and the other is a monster
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    We could very easily be giving McDonald all the grief that Evan's is getting given the near-identical circumstances. As it is, McDonald can play again without any gripe and the other is a monster

    She went to the hotel with McDonald, she chose to do that, she'd never even met Evans, not quite sure how that is near identical.
    Got to wonder though why McDonald stopped having consentual sex with her so that Ched could start raping her. And then left him to it.
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    We could very easily be giving McDonald all the grief that Evan's is getting given the near-identical circumstances. As it is, McDonald can play again without any gripe and the other is a monster

    She went to the hotel with McDonald, she chose to do that, she'd never even met Evans, not quite sure how that is near identical.
    Got to wonder though why McDonald stopped having consentual sex with her so that Ched could start raping her. And then left him to it.
    Maybe he'd, er, finished?
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    We could very easily be giving McDonald all the grief that Evan's is getting given the near-identical circumstances. As it is, McDonald can play again without any gripe and the other is a monster

    She went to the hotel with McDonald, she chose to do that, she'd never even met Evans, not quite sure how that is near identical.
    Got to wonder though why McDonald stopped having consentual sex with her so that Ched could start raping her. And then left him to it.
    Maybe he'd, er, finished?
    Hope not, I'm sure I read Ched performed oral sex on her.
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    We could very easily be giving McDonald all the grief that Evan's is getting given the near-identical circumstances. As it is, McDonald can play again without any gripe and the other is a monster

    She went to the hotel with McDonald, she chose to do that, she'd never even met Evans, not quite sure how that is near identical.
    Got to wonder though why McDonald stopped having consentual sex with her so that Ched could start raping her. And then left him to it.
    Maybe he'd, er, finished?
    Hope not, I'm sure I read Ched performed oral sex on her.
    Anyway, back to the match thread....
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    "Oldham Athletic banner regarding the petition to stop Ched Evans playing for them."

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    “70,000: Where are you?” read the banner raised by Oldham Athletic fans at the Chadderton Road End, and if a fraction of that number who signed their name in protest at the notion of signing Ched Evans turned up in support then this would be a far less impoverished place indeed.

    The half-built new main stand looked very exposed as a fierce Pennine wind whipped around the weather-beaten stadium and intermittent hailstorms threatened to give way to snow. The circus had moved on out of town and Oldham were left to do something they are very familiar with: survive.

    It took half an hour or so for a small, intellectually challenged minority to beginning chanting “one Ched Evans” and “sign him on”. A fan in his sixties stood up to urge stewards to shut them up but, since singing the name of a convicted rapist is not a criminal offence and the offenders liked causing offence, the man took up his possessions and walked out of the ground.

    “We did what we could,” the steward said. The incident revealed the deep unease which the League One club’s six weeks of amateurish flirtation with Evans have left in their wake. Heading off to watch the side play Doncaster Rovers yesterday was no ordinary experience.

    One supporter, Paul, told his daughter not to put on her club top “because you don’t know what abuse you will get” and said he would have walked away from the club if they had signed Evans. But some felt the weight of being an Oldham fan even before leaving their front doors.

    Sarah, a 45-year-old, found herself being lumped in, on Facebook, with the 2,000 people who signed a petition in support of signing Evans. “By the end of the week I was ready to have a go back about that,” she said. “The insinuation is that not to oppose buying him is the same as supporting it. I object to that.”

    She was by no means alone among women in the fan-base to feel neutrality about the plan to sign Evans, rather than be set against it. “I think that’s because I read about the case,” she said, sheltering in the lee of the tea hut. “You get to know the details when it’s in the public eye. It’s the club I care about and it’s the club I blame for this business. They are a small club. They don’t have what it takes to deal with a controversy like that. They should never have put themselves in that position. Or us.”

    Chris, 45, whom she stood with, said that the barometer of Facebook suggested that views of supporters were far more mixed than the broader opprobrium over Evans had suggested. “I’d say 50 per cent were for it, 50 per cent against, and among women it was 50-50 too.”

    Norma, 74, did not demur. She had her own concerns about the court case. “Where are all those protestors today?” she said, echoing the banner’s sentiment.

    Their quiet thoughtfulness was a contrast to the sound and fury of the week just past and a straw poll of 20 fans by your correspondent suggest that 70 per cent fans would actually have taken Evans. The men were not the only ones who had allowed themselves to contemplate his goals. “Lee Hughes scored when he signed,” Sarah said of the player who was controversially brought in eight years ago after causing death by dangerous driving.

    The advertising hoardings inside and outside the stadium revealed the names of financial backers whose future unease with an Evans storm would have been understandable. A company called Sports Identity, another ethically enlightened outfit called Greencare, plus Oldham’s “well-being partner” Intersystem. George Hill Timber was probably not accustomed to controversy either, you fancied.

    The club’s young manager, Lee Johnson, is in that category too, and for 75 minutes against Doncaster here his players seemed to have proved that Oldham did not need to hire a convicted rapist.

    The game brought them up against a team who were their equals on points – managed by Paul Dickov, whom Oldham sacked to make way for Johnson last year – and they looked comfortable. The goals which had dried up in four successive defeats came: first from Jabo Ibehre – strong and impressive as he span and shot a little more than 20 minutes in – and then George Elokobi, who headed home a corner eight minutes after half-time.

    The night had set in when the reminder of Oldham’s fragility came. Defender Joe Mills was sent off. A scrambled Doncaster goal by substitute Nathan Tyson quickly followed and at the death Doncaster’s James Coppinger cut in from the right to make it 2-2.

    A discussion of the week’s challenge had to be dragged out of Johnson last night. “It is a very unique potential signing. It divided opinion [and] individual families,” he said. “I have to be careful what I say.”

    His real challenge – the reason why Oldham were tempted to sign Evans in the first place – is keeping his club’s head above water. It will go on, quietly and inexorably.
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    Apparently his legal team are saying there is now fresh evidence available to support his appeal
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    Been saying that for months now
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    WSS said:

    Apparently his legal team are saying there is now fresh evidence available to support his appeal

    Interesting. I have always felt that there would be another chapter to this.
    After all, its his girlfriends father who is pouring his money into Evans defence, an odd thing to do because at the very least Evans cheated on his daughter. I don't understand what right minded father would seek to protect and spend money on protecting someone who had wronged his daughter, never mind a convicted rapist, so they must be convinced 100% that Evans is not guilty.
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    edited January 2015
    WSS said:

    Apparently his legal team are saying there is now fresh evidence available to support his appeal, to be able to appeal l

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    Money talks.
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    This is the latest BBC article

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31026229
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