For a club with limited resources such as ourselves, to have wasted so much money through appalling scouting and a complete failure to research the strength of the Championship, is a disgrace. Nothing against Piotr personally, but his time on the pitch in the first team is likely to have cost us in the region of
£100,000 per minute
if it were just him then fair enough as all Clubs make the odd mistake but we have had far too many in the RD era who have, or still are, costing us plenty out of our limited budget.
Dmitrovic's contract runs out in the summer anyway, George I agree should be released, Ceballos has more to give IMO, Sarr also has enough about him to be a squad player, but RoJo can do one as far as I'm concerned
What has Ceballos done so wrong to be lumped in with this? He's played 6-7 matches this year. His injury was a contact one, not muscular (Hull game was on telly here, the injury was unlucky but a result of him sticking a boot in). I know he made a brief comeback and hasn't been seen since, although given he was signed near the end of the window and then got injured shortly thereafter, he probably didn't have much of a preseason and has had to spend three months on the sidelines. Surely he's at least worth giving until the end of the season before judgment can be made?
What has Ceballos done so wrong to be lumped in with this? He's played 6-7 matches this year. His injury was a contact one, not muscular (Hull game was on telly here, the injury was unlucky but a result of him sticking a boot in). I know he made a brief comeback and hasn't been seen since, although given he was signed near the end of the window and then got injured shortly thereafter, he probably didn't have much of a preseason and has had to spend three months on the sidelines. Surely he's at least worth giving until the end of the season before judgment can be made?
I think it's more that there are strong rumours that he's to be moved on rather than anything else
Dmitrovic's contract runs out in the summer anyway, George I agree should be released, Ceballos has more to give IMO, Sarr also has enough about him to be a squad player, but RoJo can do one as far as I'm concerned
I thought Dmitrovic looked a decent enough player. 15 U21 Caps for a decent Serbian team, probably a better prospect than Pope
Big bucks reported at the time but I do wonder how much signing PP has actually cost. Doubt there was a very big up front payment with most of the fee dependent on games played etc etc. Doubt Pete has triggered any additional monies. If we havn't paid too much in wages whilst on loan then he probably hasn't actually cost that much.
The real issue here is the acquisition of an obviously not good enough player in the first place. I'm fairly confident that those to blame are still actively influencing our recruitment policy. It's utter madness.
The guy signed a four and a half year deal. It's highly unlikely he's on less than £150k a year. Practically everyone except kids was on £250k minimum in 2013, and he's a striker, who attract a premium. Even at £150k that would make his contract worth £675k in round numbers (and that excludes on-costs). We were subsiding his wages at Randers and if his contract has been cancelled it's reasonable to assume that we paid up a good half of the balance, probably more given he won't earn the same anywhere else. I'd be very surprised if he has cost the club less than £1m overall and it's quite likely to be closer to £2m, depending on the fee.
This was a player who, from day one, couldn't cut it in the U21s, according to reports. Not his fault, but it was an appalling decision to sign him. I suspect if people saw the figures there would be more frustration, not less.
Thankyou AB. Taking your points into consideration Piotr's signing was nothing short of criminal.
Money thrown away. Who is accountable for the PP signing ? I would like to know KM's take on the whole PP deal and outcome.
As with everything to do with Meire, she will likely sale his acquisition and subsequent cancellation of his contract, were the right decisions...
Cebellos and Johnson yes but I really think Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Football is, of course, a game of opinions and I respect yours. But in my opinion the only possibility of Sarr becoming a good player is if he's in the Belgian 3rd division.
Interestingly, I'm sure its not coincidence that Sarr has not been anywhere near the first team squad this last 2 games. Didn't take Riga long to realise that one of our best chances of staying up is to keep Sarr as far away as possible from the first team.
Cebellos and Johnson yes but I really think Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Football is, of course, a game of opinions and I respect yours. But in my opinion the only possibility of Sarr becoming a good player is if he's in the Belgian 3rd division.
Interestingly, I'm sure its not coincidence that Sarr has not been anywhere near the first team squad this last 2 games. Didn't take Riga long to realise that one of our best chances of staying up is to keep Sarr as far away as possible from the first team.
So we differ on our opinions of Naby Sarr, but during the Ipswich match, the commentator for the US broadcast mentioned having seen Sarr in the Toulon Tournament a couple years back, and said that he was one of the brightest prospects on show there. He came through the Lyon academy, which is top notch. He was bought by Sporting. He's played for the French under-21s.
I have no idea if we actually have scouts, if they're football scouts or cub scouts, and if we do, who they are and who they report to. But with Sarr, whatever someone at our club saw in him has been seen by others in the game. It's no guarantee that he'll come good, but I hope he's given a bit of time, including potentially a loan move, to come good.
He's had three center back partners (Lennon, Diarra, Bauer), two of whom were also still adjusting the the championship. His run of games coincided with us not having a head coach, and therefore a complete lack of an organized defense. As far as introductions to the Championship go, that's pretty rough. Should he have started the year as our 3rd choice CB? Probably not, no, and he should have had proper coaches working with him from the start and more settled players around him as well but that's not his fault.
He's not been in the last couple match day squads, yes, but we're only likely to have one CB on the bench and right now he's fourth choice. The sign of a good coach is one who makes players better (as individuals and as a team). We've already seen signs of it on Saturday, and unlike some of the lads we've brought in for a few months from aboard and then, shocked when they failed to settle, binned off, it'd be nice if Sarr is actually given time under a proper manager to adjust himself to the league. Do that thing where we attempt to nurture, foster, and grow a player.
Cebellos and Johnson yes but I really think Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Football is, of course, a game of opinions and I respect yours. But in my opinion the only possibility of Sarr becoming a good player is if he's in the Belgian 3rd division.
Interestingly, I'm sure its not coincidence that Sarr has not been anywhere near the first team squad this last 2 games. Didn't take Riga long to realise that one of our best chances of staying up is to keep Sarr as far away as possible from the first team.
So we differ on our opinions of Naby Sarr, but during the Ipswich match, the commentator for the US broadcast mentioned having seen Sarr in the Toulon Tournament a couple years back, and said that he was one of the brightest prospects on show there. He came through the Lyon academy, which is top notch. He was bought by Sporting. He's played for the French under-21s.
I have no idea if we actually have scouts, if they're football scouts or cub scouts, and if we do, who they are and who they report to. But with Sarr, whatever someone at our club saw in him has been seen by others in the game. It's no guarantee that he'll come good, but I hope he's given a bit of time, including potentially a loan move, to come good.
He's had three center back partners (Lennon, Diarra, Bauer), two of whom were also still adjusting the the championship. His run of games coincided with us not having a head coach, and therefore a complete lack of an organized defense. As far as introductions to the Championship go, that's pretty rough. Should he have started the year as our 3rd choice CB? Probably not, no, and he should have had proper coaches working with him from the start and more settled players around him as well but that's not his fault.
He's not been in the last couple match day squads, yes, but we're only likely to have one CB on the bench and right now he's fourth choice. The sign of a good coach is one who makes players better (as individuals and as a team). We've already seen signs of it on Saturday, and unlike some of the lads we've brought in for a few months from aboard and then, shocked when they failed to settle, binned off, it'd be nice if Sarr is actually given time under a proper manager to adjust himself to the league. Do that thing where we attempt to nurture, foster, and grow a player.
Roland doesn't do those things, he prefers to toss them in and watch them drown...
Sarr is nowhere near the worst signing of this regime. he may not be wonderful, but he has youth on his side, and might be coachable, and also learn from experience. I would definitely look to play him in the U21's for a spell, not leave him in limbo without any focus. I think SDAddick has written a good post.
The odd thing is that Parystzek and Pawel Abbott both played for Poland at U21 level and Abbott, post SE7 even won the Polish Cup and had a respectable record in their top division. In UK terms, though, both were League Two level players.
For that matter Yassin Moutaouakil, Yohann Thuram-Ulien were both French U21, and........
On the other hand Jose Semedo is Portugese U21 and might yet play in the Premiership.
Are there any others that come to mind?
You'd have to say, on balance, that England U21 players, even if they don't work out at Premier level (anyone for Marcus Bent or Jamie Stuart?), are often a better bet than many European players who reach the same representative level.
Let's hope that Yaya Sanogo turns out to be the next Thierry Henry rather than the next Parystzek or Abbott!
Big bucks reported at the time but I do wonder how much signing PP has actually cost. Doubt there was a very big up front payment with most of the fee dependent on games played etc etc. Doubt Pete has triggered any additional monies. If we havn't paid too much in wages whilst on loan then he probably hasn't actually cost that much.
The real issue here is the acquisition of an obviously not good enough player in the first place. I'm fairly confident that those to blame are still actively influencing our recruitment policy. It's utter madness.
The guy signed a four and a half year deal. It's highly unlikely he's on less than £150k a year. Practically everyone except kids was on £250k minimum in 2013, and he's a striker, who attract a premium. Even at £150k that would make his contract worth £675k in round numbers (and that excludes on-costs). We were subsiding his wages at Randers and if his contract has been cancelled it's reasonable to assume that we paid up a good half of the balance, probably more given he won't earn the same anywhere else. I'd be very surprised if he has cost the club less than £1m overall and it's quite likely to be closer to £2m, depending on the fee.
This was a player who, from day one, couldn't cut it in the U21s, according to reports. Not his fault, but it was an appalling decision to sign him. I suspect if people saw the figures there would be more frustration, not less.
Surely it was his fault. His ability is ultimately down to him and him alone. Not his fault what he gets paid however I do agree.
The point for me is that he isn't the first and won't be the last very poor signing by this or any other club. Similarly a club can sign a player who almost immediately has stop / start injuries that lead to a lack of value in the contract.
Torres post Liverpool shows how a good player can become a poor one for no obvious reason.
These things are only right or wrong with hindsight unfortunately given some other signings have been fine.
I'd have thought RD would be keen to ensure there is more collective responsibility from the scouts and coaches for who is signed in future if the loss is this great. Surprised if before contracts were handed out just off the back of a KF recommendation if he had no track record to seek that sort of trust. But who knows.
I'm confused as to why he was so poor though. He scored goals, albeit in a crap league. Maybe just not cut out for the pace of our football?
At a guess - plunged into a club in a desperate relegation battle in January + some of the fellow squad members not being that great (either?) + turmoil at managerial level + peculiar ''back seat driver'' mentality of RD shipping people off on loan at a whim = he may have lost interest (ok, ok.....he shouldn't if he's being paid £150k) and thought that he was never going to get a decent chance to build his game up and develop into an OK Championship/League One player.
Be interesting to see what level he bottoms out at.
Can see Polish Pete no longer being in the Football Manager database in 3-5 years.
Sarr sometimes looks like he's playing with someone else's legs and his positioning (in the games I've seen him in) leaves much to be desired, but I do actually agree that there is something in there and he could come good. All the best defenders tend to have a bit of age on their side, and that's no coincidence - he's got the physicality to get there, but so do many, many others who won't.
Cebellos and Johnson yes but I really think Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Football is, of course, a game of opinions and I respect yours. But in my opinion the only possibility of Sarr becoming a good player is if he's in the Belgian 3rd division.
Interestingly, I'm sure its not coincidence that Sarr has not been anywhere near the first team squad this last 2 games. Didn't take Riga long to realise that one of our best chances of staying up is to keep Sarr as far away as possible from the first team.
So we differ on our opinions of Naby Sarr, but during the Ipswich match, the commentator for the US broadcast mentioned having seen Sarr in the Toulon Tournament a couple years back, and said that he was one of the brightest prospects on show there. He came through the Lyon academy, which is top notch. He was bought by Sporting. He's played for the French under-21s.
I have no idea if we actually have scouts, if they're football scouts or cub scouts, and if we do, who they are and who they report to. But with Sarr, whatever someone at our club saw in him has been seen by others in the game. It's no guarantee that he'll come good, but I hope he's given a bit of time, including potentially a loan move, to come good.
He's had three center back partners (Lennon, Diarra, Bauer), two of whom were also still adjusting the the championship. His run of games coincided with us not having a head coach, and therefore a complete lack of an organized defense. As far as introductions to the Championship go, that's pretty rough. Should he have started the year as our 3rd choice CB? Probably not, no, and he should have had proper coaches working with him from the start and more settled players around him as well but that's not his fault.
He's not been in the last couple match day squads, yes, but we're only likely to have one CB on the bench and right now he's fourth choice. The sign of a good coach is one who makes players better (as individuals and as a team). We've already seen signs of it on Saturday, and unlike some of the lads we've brought in for a few months from aboard and then, shocked when they failed to settle, binned off, it'd be nice if Sarr is actually given time under a proper manager to adjust himself to the league. Do that thing where we attempt to nurture, foster, and grow a player.
Good post... Only worthy of a "B" Grade though.
At 21... Harry Lennon is making mistakes yet is being let off by fans, whilst Naby Sarr who is only a year older, is in a completely different country for the first time yet is being picked up for every mistake he makes - You could rightly ask, whats the difference?
Now had you mentioned that you'd have got an "A" Grade... Still a very good post and you got a like so be happy with that
Cebellos and Johnson yes but I really think Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Football is, of course, a game of opinions and I respect yours. But in my opinion the only possibility of Sarr becoming a good player is if he's in the Belgian 3rd division.
Interestingly, I'm sure its not coincidence that Sarr has not been anywhere near the first team squad this last 2 games. Didn't take Riga long to realise that one of our best chances of staying up is to keep Sarr as far away as possible from the first team.
Watching Sarr getting torn a new one by the strike force from the mighty Chelmsford City in our PSF was a terrifying experience. Strangely, Luzon didn't seem to notice.
Cebellos and Johnson yes but I really think Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Saar has the qualities to be a good player
Football is, of course, a game of opinions and I respect yours. But in my opinion the only possibility of Sarr becoming a good player is if he's in the Belgian 3rd division.
Interestingly, I'm sure its not coincidence that Sarr has not been anywhere near the first team squad this last 2 games. Didn't take Riga long to realise that one of our best chances of staying up is to keep Sarr as far away as possible from the first team.
So we differ on our opinions of Naby Sarr, but during the Ipswich match, the commentator for the US broadcast mentioned having seen Sarr in the Toulon Tournament a couple years back, and said that he was one of the brightest prospects on show there. He came through the Lyon academy, which is top notch. He was bought by Sporting. He's played for the French under-21s.
I have no idea if we actually have scouts, if they're football scouts or cub scouts, and if we do, who they are and who they report to. But with Sarr, whatever someone at our club saw in him has been seen by others in the game. It's no guarantee that he'll come good, but I hope he's given a bit of time, including potentially a loan move, to come good.
He's had three center back partners (Lennon, Diarra, Bauer), two of whom were also still adjusting the the championship. His run of games coincided with us not having a head coach, and therefore a complete lack of an organized defense. As far as introductions to the Championship go, that's pretty rough. Should he have started the year as our 3rd choice CB? Probably not, no, and he should have had proper coaches working with him from the start and more settled players around him as well but that's not his fault.
He's not been in the last couple match day squads, yes, but we're only likely to have one CB on the bench and right now he's fourth choice. The sign of a good coach is one who makes players better (as individuals and as a team). We've already seen signs of it on Saturday, and unlike some of the lads we've brought in for a few months from aboard and then, shocked when they failed to settle, binned off, it'd be nice if Sarr is actually given time under a proper manager to adjust himself to the league. Do that thing where we attempt to nurture, foster, and grow a player.
Good post... Only worthy of a "B" Grade though.
At 21... Harry Lennon is making mistakes yet is being let off by fans, whilst Naby Sarr who is only a year older, is in a completely different country for the first time yet is being picked up for every mistake he makes - You could rightly ask, whats the difference?
Now had you mentioned that you'd have got an "A" Grade... Still a very good post and you got a like so be happy with that
The difference is we paid £1M for Sarr and nothing for Lennon.
At 21... Harry Lennon is making mistakes yet is being let off by fans, whilst Naby Sarr who is only a year older, is in a completely different country for the first time yet is being picked up for every mistake he makes - You could rightly ask, whats the difference?
Now had you mentioned that you'd have got an "A" Grade... Still a very good post and you got a like so be happy with that
Thank you kind sir. A good point about Lennon, and I have called out his brain fades and positional errors which have led to goals in other posts. I intentionally didn't bring it up here because I don't want to constantly fall into the trap of "which one of these 21/2 year old Center Halves in their first full season in the Championship is less rubbish?" There will be time for that, and hopefully it will shift from "less rubbish" to "better." For now, I just wanted to make the point that Sarr is worthy of a place in our squad and some patience.
Comments
Edit: And what it would have cost to terminate the remaining 2.5 years(?) contract
Football is, of course, a game of opinions and I respect yours. But in my opinion the only possibility of Sarr becoming a good player is if he's in the Belgian 3rd division.
Interestingly, I'm sure its not coincidence that Sarr has not been anywhere near the first team squad this last 2 games. Didn't take Riga long to realise that one of our best chances of staying up is to keep Sarr as far away as possible from the first team.
cant run
cant tackle
has no balance
cant head the ball
is a prospect tho if ASDA need more car washers
I have no idea if we actually have scouts, if they're football scouts or cub scouts, and if we do, who they are and who they report to. But with Sarr, whatever someone at our club saw in him has been seen by others in the game. It's no guarantee that he'll come good, but I hope he's given a bit of time, including potentially a loan move, to come good.
He's had three center back partners (Lennon, Diarra, Bauer), two of whom were also still adjusting the the championship. His run of games coincided with us not having a head coach, and therefore a complete lack of an organized defense. As far as introductions to the Championship go, that's pretty rough. Should he have started the year as our 3rd choice CB? Probably not, no, and he should have had proper coaches working with him from the start and more settled players around him as well but that's not his fault.
He's not been in the last couple match day squads, yes, but we're only likely to have one CB on the bench and right now he's fourth choice. The sign of a good coach is one who makes players better (as individuals and as a team). We've already seen signs of it on Saturday, and unlike some of the lads we've brought in for a few months from aboard and then, shocked when they failed to settle, binned off, it'd be nice if Sarr is actually given time under a proper manager to adjust himself to the league. Do that thing where we attempt to nurture, foster, and grow a player.
I think SDAddick has written a good post.
For that matter Yassin Moutaouakil, Yohann Thuram-Ulien were both French U21, and........
On the other hand Jose Semedo is Portugese U21 and might yet play in the Premiership.
Are there any others that come to mind?
You'd have to say, on balance, that England U21 players, even if they don't work out at Premier level (anyone for Marcus Bent or Jamie Stuart?), are often a better bet than many European players who reach the same representative level.
Let's hope that Yaya Sanogo turns out to be the next Thierry Henry rather than the next Parystzek or Abbott!
What an incompetent clown the fella was. I have my fingers crossed he has nothing further to do with our club.
The point for me is that he isn't the first and won't be the last very poor signing by this or any other club. Similarly a club can sign a player who almost immediately has stop / start injuries that lead to a lack of value in the contract.
Torres post Liverpool shows how a good player can become a poor one for no obvious reason.
These things are only right or wrong with hindsight unfortunately given some other signings have been fine.
I'd have thought RD would be keen to ensure there is more collective responsibility from the scouts and coaches for who is signed in future if the loss is this great. Surprised if before contracts were handed out just off the back of a KF recommendation if he had no track record to seek that sort of trust. But who knows.
Be interesting to see what level he bottoms out at.
Sarr sometimes looks like he's playing with someone else's legs and his positioning (in the games I've seen him in) leaves much to be desired, but I do actually agree that there is something in there and he could come good. All the best defenders tend to have a bit of age on their side, and that's no coincidence - he's got the physicality to get there, but so do many, many others who won't.
At 21... Harry Lennon is making mistakes yet is being let off by fans, whilst Naby Sarr who is only a year older, is in a completely different country for the first time yet is being picked up for every mistake he makes - You could rightly ask, whats the difference?
Now had you mentioned that you'd have got an "A" Grade... Still a very good post and you got a like so be happy with that
At 21... Harry Lennon is making mistakes yet is being let off by fans, whilst Naby Sarr who is only a year older, is in a completely different country for the first time yet is being picked up for every mistake he makes - You could rightly ask, whats the difference?
Now had you mentioned that you'd have got an "A" Grade... Still a very good post and you got a like so be happy with that
Thank you kind sir. A good point about Lennon, and I have called out his brain fades and positional errors which have led to goals in other posts. I intentionally didn't bring it up here because I don't want to constantly fall into the trap of "which one of these 21/2 year old Center Halves in their first full season in the Championship is less rubbish?" There will be time for that, and hopefully it will shift from "less rubbish" to "better." For now, I just wanted to make the point that Sarr is worthy of a place in our squad and some patience.
Never been happy with a B, but I'll take it.
And it turned out.................he was right.