What makes it so bad for me was the fact that the Army that fought the Dead didnt really need Cersei after all
i.e. Bet she's back at Kings Landing thinking to herself that she made the right call in staying back (I guess not because she'll now deal with the wrath of betraying the others by staying at KL) but at the same time it feels cheap that they had this big: "we need everyone" council but ultimately; didnt need everyone
Think it would have been better to deal with Cersei first and then have a combined army to deal with the Night King slowly advancing on Kings Landing rather than Winterfell
How can you deal with WW, the Knights Kings army if you lose half of your army. Much easier they use their whole army against WW and then whatever is left will make more of a battle with Cersai and co
What makes it so bad for me was the fact that the Army that fought the Dead didnt really need Cersei after all
i.e. Bet she's back at Kings Landing thinking to herself that she made the right call in staying back (I guess not because she'll now deal with the wrath of betraying the others by staying at KL) but at the same time it feels cheap that they had this big: "we need everyone" council but ultimately; didnt need everyone
Think it would have been better to deal with Cersei first and then have a combined army to deal with the Night King slowly advancing on Kings Landing rather than Winterfell
What?! They was getting their arses kicked, walls had been breached etc and then the night king had just brought back their dead comrades to now attack them, Jon was about to be turned into ash and the only reason they won was because of Arya’s training and stealth gained over the years to kill the night king. If they had Cersei’s army it potentially could have been over a lot quicker.
Bran is true evil, The Night King was trying to protect the realm from the true evil. I base this on nothing other than that he is a creepy fucker and he didn't warn Theon that he didn't need to die.
Second bold prediction, Jaime or Tyrion will betray Dany and join back with Cersei.
I also backed Varys at 33/1 to be the last voice you hear in GoT, thought it looked good value
Theon needed to die to both distract the NK and to give him a false sense that there were no other threats.
Arya didn't come out of nowhere, we see her storm away from Melisandre and the Hound, we see her being an expert at stealth in the library and yet a White Walker does glimpse her when the NK is fully focused on Bran, he uses their hive like mind to see her coming, but he underestimates her like many she killed.
On reflection I think it was actually pretty spot on. I also felt John being trapped by Viserion was fantastic it proved he can't do everything. It made him Human again, just like at BOTB.
So the Night King was relaxed supposedly yet he still managed to catch Arya, are you suggesting if Theon didn't hopelessly charge he would have instead been like 'oi oi Arya, seen the knife pal'
My post was a joke, Bran is probably just some boring character when it's all said and done but let's not protect bad or OTT writing, it is on par with creating wild theories.
I like what you said about Viserion it's a good point, but again what could have been better was he survived the blast, runs through tricking the audience into thinking he was going to save Bran and then Arya jumps out
Bran is true evil, The Night King was trying to protect the realm from the true evil. I base this on nothing other than that he is a creepy fucker and he didn't warn Theon that he didn't need to die.
Second bold prediction, Jaime or Tyrion will betray Dany and join back with Cersei.
I also backed Varys at 33/1 to be the last voice you hear in GoT, thought it looked good value
Theon needed to die to both distract the NK and to give him a false sense that there were no other threats.
Arya didn't come out of nowhere, we see her storm away from Melisandre and the Hound, we see her being an expert at stealth in the library and yet a White Walker does glimpse her when the NK is fully focused on Bran, he uses their hive like mind to see her coming, but he underestimates her like many she killed.
On reflection I think it was actually pretty spot on. I also felt John being trapped by Viserion was fantastic it proved he can't do everything. It made him Human again, just like at BOTB.
So the Night King was relaxed supposedly yet he still managed to catch Arya, are you suggesting if Theon didn't hopelessly charge he would have instead been like 'oi oi Arya, seen the knife pal'
My post was a joke, Bran is probably just some boring character when it's all said and done but let's not protect bad or OTT writing, it is on par with creating wild theories.
I like what you said about Viserion it's a good point, but again what could have been better was he survived the blast, runs through tricking the audience into thinking he was going to save Bran and then Arya jumps out
Maybe you should write your own series, as you can do better right?
Bran is true evil, The Night King was trying to protect the realm from the true evil. I base this on nothing other than that he is a creepy fucker and he didn't warn Theon that he didn't need to die.
Second bold prediction, Jaime or Tyrion will betray Dany and join back with Cersei.
I also backed Varys at 33/1 to be the last voice you hear in GoT, thought it looked good value
Theon needed to die to both distract the NK and to give him a false sense that there were no other threats.
Arya didn't come out of nowhere, we see her storm away from Melisandre and the Hound, we see her being an expert at stealth in the library and yet a White Walker does glimpse her when the NK is fully focused on Bran, he uses their hive like mind to see her coming, but he underestimates her like many she killed.
On reflection I think it was actually pretty spot on. I also felt John being trapped by Viserion was fantastic it proved he can't do everything. It made him Human again, just like at BOTB.
So the Night King was relaxed supposedly yet he still managed to catch Arya, are you suggesting if Theon didn't hopelessly charge he would have instead been like 'oi oi Arya, seen the knife pal'
My post was a joke, Bran is probably just some boring character when it's all said and done but let's not protect bad or OTT writing, it is on par with creating wild theories.
I like what you said about Viserion it's a good point, but again what could have been better was he survived the blast, runs through tricking the audience into thinking he was going to save Bran and then Arya jumps out
Maybe you should write your own series, as you can do better right?
Why are you taking criticism of a show so personally? Not everyone is going to find every episode their cup of tea, this is a thread to reflect or review on the show
Edit: after last night's episode, while we are on the subject maybe
No but what does that have to do with discussion of a TV series?
I have noticed you have posted on the Star Wars thread recently, I guess you have read all the books and are a personal friend of George Lucas to share your opinion?
Also you have posted in a thread about shirt sponsorship, I trust you have a degree in marketing and a career to form an opinion on the shirt sponsorship?
I like GOT and enjoyed the build up to the battle, but found the battle scenes themselves a bit tedious.
i’ll still watch it but if faced with a pre vcr choice of Line of Duty or GOT, Line of Duty would win hands down.
Just a question of personal taste I suppose. GOT is a good programme but it’s down to individuals to decide if last night was the best thing they’ve seen on the small screen.
Wonder if the Night King and his dragon already had an encounter with Cersei and her navy at sea, seems a bit simplistic and a waste of a good navy otherwise
Bran is true evil, The Night King was trying to protect the realm from the true evil. I base this on nothing other than that he is a creepy fucker and he didn't warn Theon that he didn't need to die.
Second bold prediction, Jaime or Tyrion will betray Dany and join back with Cersei.
I also backed Varys at 33/1 to be the last voice you hear in GoT, thought it looked good value
Theon needed to die to both distract the NK and to give him a false sense that there were no other threats.
Arya didn't come out of nowhere, we see her storm away from Melisandre and the Hound, we see her being an expert at stealth in the library and yet a White Walker does glimpse her when the NK is fully focused on Bran, he uses their hive like mind to see her coming, but he underestimates her like many she killed.
On reflection I think it was actually pretty spot on. I also felt John being trapped by Viserion was fantastic it proved he can't do everything. It made him Human again, just like at BOTB.
So the Night King was relaxed supposedly yet he still managed to catch Arya, are you suggesting if Theon didn't hopelessly charge he would have instead been like 'oi oi Arya, seen the knife pal'
My post was a joke, Bran is probably just some boring character when it's all said and done but let's not protect bad or OTT writing, it is on par with creating wild theories.
I like what you said about Viserion it's a good point, but again what could have been better was he survived the blast, runs through tricking the audience into thinking he was going to save Bran and then Arya jumps out
Maybe you should write your own series, as you can do better right?
Why are you taking criticism of a show so personally? Not everyone is going to find every episode their cup of tea, this is a thread to reflect or review on the show
Edit: after last night's episode, while we are on the subject maybe
Its never personal, I am I just saying from what you have written. You feel this would be better, I am sure there a countless different perspectives and things they could have done but they haven't. It leads on to my earlier point, people are disappointed more because it hasn't gone the way they expected and want.
@goonerhater that's fair, personally mine goes last episode>Battle of Bastards>Red Wedding, all fantastic in their own right.
I agree I am not sure whether its going to be a bit of an anti-climax at the end, you would think the best would be the last? but we will see what happens. I am enjoying it, just a shame there is only 3 episodes left.
No but what does that have to do with discussion of a TV series?
I have noticed you have posted on the Star Wars thread recently, I guess you have read all the books and are a personal friend of George Lucas to share your opinion?
Also you have posted in a thread about shirt sponsorship, I trust you have a degree in marketing and a career to form an opinion on the shirt sponsorship?
Technically I am trained on TV/ film criticism so it’s a little bit different! I try to avoid the Mark Bright approach to criticism, saying “they should’ve done it like this” cos that's not criticism. That’s just fan fiction, especially as your scene outline was nowhere near as good.
Explaining why you didn’t like something is one thing. Telling professionals how they SHOULD have done something is completely different, and I’d hope you wouldn’t find me doing that in any of the threads you’ve cited.
Battle of the Bastards DID have the more personal stakes in the massive fight, that's why I enjoyed it more personally. I am certainly not saying last night was in any way bad, it was pretty damn spectacular for sure - as a visual spectacle one of the greatest episodes of any show ever. BUT GOT was always at its best for me when we had a really personal human connection to the characters and that was what was missing last night. An example is the charge of the Dothraki - awesome visual, but I don't know who any of them were, the one character whose name we know (Jorah) comes galloping back safe and sound so in the end it was just spectacle. Jon vs Zombie Dragon and Jorah only going down the minute he knew Dany was safe were moments that were REALLY good and what I love about GOT but there were too few of them for me personally.
In the episode 4 trailer they burn the dead... Why? Is there a chance the Night King wasn't actually dead? Or is it simply that they don't bury this many dead?
In the episode 4 trailer they burn the dead... Why? Is there a chance the Night King wasn't actually dead? Or is it simply that they don't bury this many dead?
It is what they would do in real life to stop disease, but they are probably worried having seen them rise before.
Bran is true evil, The Night King was trying to protect the realm from the true evil. I base this on nothing other than that he is a creepy fucker and he didn't warn Theon that he didn't need to die.
Second bold prediction, Jaime or Tyrion will betray Dany and join back with Cersei.
I also backed Varys at 33/1 to be the last voice you hear in GoT, thought it looked good value
Theon needed to die to both distract the NK and to give him a false sense that there were no other threats.
Arya didn't come out of nowhere, we see her storm away from Melisandre and the Hound, we see her being an expert at stealth in the library and yet a White Walker does glimpse her when the NK is fully focused on Bran, he uses their hive like mind to see her coming, but he underestimates her like many she killed.
On reflection I think it was actually pretty spot on. I also felt John being trapped by Viserion was fantastic it proved he can't do everything. It made him Human again, just like at BOTB.
So the Night King was relaxed supposedly yet he still managed to catch Arya, are you suggesting if Theon didn't hopelessly charge he would have instead been like 'oi oi Arya, seen the knife pal'
He saw Arya because of how he and his White Walkers communicate (maybe a hive mind like thing). One of the Walkers sees her just as she jumps at him, he instantly knew something was up coupled with the fact you saw him recognise that Bran wasn't scared. He caught Arya out of knowing she was coming. He didn't know she was a trained assassin and underestimated her when he caught her.
Obviously much of this is just how I personally saw it. Maybe you saw it differently.
Bran is true evil, The Night King was trying to protect the realm from the true evil. I base this on nothing other than that he is a creepy fucker and he didn't warn Theon that he didn't need to die.
Second bold prediction, Jaime or Tyrion will betray Dany and join back with Cersei.
I also backed Varys at 33/1 to be the last voice you hear in GoT, thought it looked good value
Theon needed to die to both distract the NK and to give him a false sense that there were no other threats.
Arya didn't come out of nowhere, we see her storm away from Melisandre and the Hound, we see her being an expert at stealth in the library and yet a White Walker does glimpse her when the NK is fully focused on Bran, he uses their hive like mind to see her coming, but he underestimates her like many she killed.
On reflection I think it was actually pretty spot on. I also felt John being trapped by Viserion was fantastic it proved he can't do everything. It made him Human again, just like at BOTB.
So the Night King was relaxed supposedly yet he still managed to catch Arya, are you suggesting if Theon didn't hopelessly charge he would have instead been like 'oi oi Arya, seen the knife pal'
He saw Arya because of how he and his White Walkers communicate (maybe a hive mind like thing). One of the Walkers sees her just as she jumps at him, he instantly knew something was up coupled with the fact you saw him recognise that Bran wasn't scared. He caught Arya out of knowing she was coming. He didn't know she was a trained assassin and underestimated her when he caught her.
Obviously much of this is just how I personally saw it. Maybe you saw it differently.
That’s the exact same as what I thought. You see one of the Wight Walkers hair blow as Arya sprints past, that’s what gives her away to the NK.
The library scene was a direct set up for the final moments. I thought it was well done.
There is some debate as to whether Bran can also see the future. He has definitely seen flashes of future events in his visions, like in his montage of quick glimpses in season six, episode six. As this slow-mo video shows, Bran sees the explosion of the Great Sept of Baelor four episodes before it actually happens.
I like GOT and enjoyed the build up to the battle, but found the battle scenes themselves a bit tedious.
i’ll still watch it but if faced with a pre vcr choice of Line of Duty or GOT, Line of Duty would win hands down.
Just a question of personal taste I suppose. GOT is a good programme but it’s down to individuals to decide if last night was the best thing they’ve seen on the small screen.
I agree. I liked the battle of Blackwater but the last two have been visually great but a bit stupid at the same time. I'm no military strategist but even I know not to send my cavalry out by themselves with no support against an enemy army I can't actually see. I might also put my infantry behind the pallisade and my artillery behind the infantry. This will be nitpicking for the fanboys but it spoils my enjoyment of these battles. Looking forward to getting back to political intrigue, backstabbing and snappy dialogue which is what the series does best.
Do the Dothraki get over excited at their flaming torches and go for it? I havent rewatched it yet. I agree about the Dragons but perhaps they suspect a trap, or they want to draw out the Night King, as killing him is the key to everything given how outnumbered they are likely to be. Wouldn't you have a few more ditches too given you are about to be overwhelmed by a very large force?
The implication that Arya was a ‘deus ex machina’ thing really bothers me. The callback to the “green eyes, brown eyes, blue eyes” line is confirmation that she was set up to kill NK for a long time. And it was foreshadowed in the show. She’s been training for it for 7 seasons. What more do people want?
Arya is not a true Deux ex Machina. Melisandre reminds her what to do and we know that's her plan. Nevermind that the original "green eyes, brown eyes, blue eyes" prophecy is so vague it would make Nostradamus blush, but I digress.
My gut reaction to her jumping out of nowhere was "FFS", you expect it in cheap slasher movie - not this, the culmination of nearly 10 years of epic TV and the final (er, half way through the series) apocalyptic battle to end all battles.
She escaped from the room they were trapped in (to where? not shown) She makes her way to the Godswood through hordes of rampaging zombies (not shown) Gets herself in position to strike (not shown) Avoids the white walker bodyguard (not shown) Kills the Night King with a single (unoriginal) move. Did she really use any of her hard won assassin skills? Did she use her stealth or change her face to sneak up? Maybe she did, we never saw it anyway.
If this was the denouement of the conflict with the Night King, why does it feel so blank? I say he was 'Snoked' because, like Snoke, he's effectively killed in the second act and we never really learn the who, where, what and why of this character. Why is he obsessed with Bran? Why should I have to go to the internet to find out? The climax of the conflict should give a resolution to the character and their motivations, or at least give me enough to figure it out from the character's actions based on what is previously known. As it is, the NK is just evil because he's evil and now he's dead - happy ending. Am I going to have to wait for an exposition dump next episode to explain it all or to truly understand the Night King, will I have to wait 15 years for George to finish the books?
As for Arya getting the kill shot over Jon Snow, that's another issue but I feel for the majority of the series Arya is cued up for killing Cersie, revenge is her motivation. It's why she goes all the way to Bravos to train. When did the Night King ever appear on her list? Jon Snow likewise has been pointed at a final showdown with the Night King, hinted at in Hardhome. He's already died for this cause once. But we don't get any of that. Jon just gets surrounded by zombies then spends the rest of the episode running around Winterfell before getting hopelessly pinned down by a dragon. Both characters have had their arcs diverted from what has been set up previously. All for the sake of 'subverting my expectations'
Comments
How can you deal with WW, the Knights Kings army if you lose half of your army. Much easier they use their whole army against WW and then whatever is left will make more of a battle with Cersai and co
My post was a joke, Bran is probably just some boring character when it's all said and done but let's not protect bad or OTT writing, it is on par with creating wild theories.
I like what you said about Viserion it's a good point, but again what could have been better was he survived the blast, runs through tricking the audience into thinking he was going to save Bran and then Arya jumps out
Maybe you should write your own series, as you can do better right?
Edit: after last night's episode, while we are on the subject maybe
I have noticed you have posted on the Star Wars thread recently, I guess you have read all the books and are a personal friend of George Lucas to share your opinion?
Also you have posted in a thread about shirt sponsorship, I trust you have a degree in marketing and a career to form an opinion on the shirt sponsorship?
i’ll still watch it but if faced with a pre vcr choice of Line of Duty or GOT, Line of Duty would win hands down.
Just a question of personal taste I suppose. GOT is a good programme but it’s down to individuals to decide if last night was the best thing they’ve seen on the small screen.
One dragon could have battled the WW dragon whilst the other set the WW ablaze (and beyond the possibility of resurrection from previous experience)
Doesn't make sense to me and wouldn't have needed to lose any of the goodies.
Did a brief scan of Google to try and find this last night but couldn't so any insight as to why?
(Possibly the geekiest thing I've put in writing in all my years)
Its never personal, I am I just saying from what you have written. You feel this would be better, I am sure there a countless different perspectives and things they could have done but they haven't. It leads on to my earlier point, people are disappointed more because it hasn't gone the way they expected and want.
@goonerhater that's fair, personally mine goes last episode>Battle of Bastards>Red Wedding, all fantastic in their own right.
I agree I am not sure whether its going to be a bit of an anti-climax at the end, you would think the best would be the last? but we will see what happens. I am enjoying it, just a shame there is only 3 episodes left.
Explaining why you didn’t like something is one thing. Telling professionals how they SHOULD have done something is completely different, and I’d hope you wouldn’t find me doing that in any of the threads you’ve cited.
An example is the charge of the Dothraki - awesome visual, but I don't know who any of them were, the one character whose name we know (Jorah) comes galloping back safe and sound so in the end it was just spectacle. Jon vs Zombie Dragon and Jorah only going down the minute he knew Dany was safe were moments that were REALLY good and what I love about GOT but there were too few of them for me personally.
Obviously much of this is just how I personally saw it. Maybe you saw it differently.
The library scene was a direct set up for the final moments. I thought it was well done.
Red Wedding was the shock value---- never saw it coming.
I think out of my predicated 5 to die I would have got 3 right .Red Priest ,the young Lady and Dragon Lady's body guard (at the end)
I also thought Greyworm was a cert and the guy who was a former smuggler
I did think the Red Witch would turn up but I also expected Bron might get there but be killed.
https://www.popsugar.co.uk/celebrity/What-Bran-Three-Eyed-Raven-Powers-43947777?utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=US:GB&utm_source=direct
There is some debate as to whether Bran can also see the future. He has definitely seen flashes of future events in his visions, like in his montage of quick glimpses in season six, episode six. As this slow-mo video shows, Bran sees the explosion of the Great Sept of Baelor four episodes before it actually happens.
My gut reaction to her jumping out of nowhere was "FFS", you expect it in cheap slasher movie - not this, the culmination of nearly 10 years of epic TV and the final (er, half way through the series) apocalyptic battle to end all battles.
She escaped from the room they were trapped in (to where? not shown) She makes her way to the Godswood through hordes of rampaging zombies (not shown) Gets herself in position to strike (not shown) Avoids the white walker bodyguard (not shown) Kills the Night King with a single (unoriginal) move. Did she really use any of her hard won assassin skills? Did she use her stealth or change her face to sneak up? Maybe she did, we never saw it anyway.
If this was the denouement of the conflict with the Night King, why does it feel so blank? I say he was 'Snoked' because, like Snoke, he's effectively killed in the second act and we never really learn the who, where, what and why of this character. Why is he obsessed with Bran? Why should I have to go to the internet to find out? The climax of the conflict should give a resolution to the character and their motivations, or at least give me enough to figure it out from the character's actions based on what is previously known. As it is, the NK is just evil because he's evil and now he's dead - happy ending. Am I going to have to wait for an exposition dump next episode to explain it all or to truly understand the Night King, will I have to wait 15 years for George to finish the books?
As for Arya getting the kill shot over Jon Snow, that's another issue but I feel for the majority of the series Arya is cued up for killing Cersie, revenge is her motivation. It's why she goes all the way to Bravos to train. When did the Night King ever appear on her list? Jon Snow likewise has been pointed at a final showdown with the Night King, hinted at in Hardhome. He's already died for this cause once. But we don't get any of that. Jon just gets surrounded by zombies then spends the rest of the episode running around Winterfell before getting hopelessly pinned down by a dragon. Both characters have had their arcs diverted from what has been set up previously. All for the sake of 'subverting my expectations'