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General Election 2015 official thread

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  • I have to disagree with that AFKA

    Cameron is hardly Mr Charisma but you are doing Brits a disservice to say we just vote for the bigger personality.

    I, like millions of other English people voted for the only party that we can trust to run a government, not just because Milliband is clearly out of his depth and would have been an embarrasment.

    In the end it was not even close, to win by 100 odd seats when the polls were predicting fairly level voting is a phenomonal phenomonal achievement.

    Spot on ... The damage was done in 2010 with the note left at the Treasury. What was it 'good luck, there's nothing left'. I don't think too many people are going to forget that in a long, long time. The Labour party has had it's day, IMHO.
  • _MrDick said:



    . The Labour party has had it's day, IMHO.

    They will be back. History dictates that. It's just a matter of when.


  • It's going to be interesting how Cameron deals with the SNP. Personally i think it's the end of the Union with Scotland. Perhaps we should give them exactly what they want.

    But only a few months ago they voted to stay in the union. I'd imagine it's more that they just don't want a Tory or Labour government.
  • _MrDick said:

    Labour will have to wait until the next election / nailed on by-election to get its next proper leader who will be David Milliband. He's a half decent politician if I say so myself even though I'm a Tory boy.

    David is not even an MP. He would need to find a seat to contest. Win it and then contest leadership election. All doubtful and is the Miliband name now tarnished ?

    Politics is now style over substance so I expect a leadership contested between those that look good in a suit and on camera and MOST importantly of all of course that they can show they know how to handle a bacon sandwich. Sad but true.

    For what it's worth I can see Andy Burnham, Chukka Umunna and Tristram Hunt being ahead of David Miliband. All fit the "style"

    I know he's not an MP. All of those others will be keeping his seat warm until he returns to front line politics. Now that Ed's gone, that will happen at some point. If not at a by-election it will be at the next general election.
  • colthe3rd said:



    It's going to be interesting how Cameron deals with the SNP. Personally i think it's the end of the Union with Scotland. Perhaps we should give them exactly what they want.

    But only a few months ago they voted to stay in the union. I'd imagine it's more that they just don't want a Tory or Labour government.
    Well if they didn't want a Tory government they have a funny way of going about things but i know what you mean.

    I think if you held a referendum tomorrow there would be an overwhelming swing in favour of independence now.
  • Agree with those who say a voting system that allows a party with over 12% of the vote to get only 1 seat needs reform.

    I'm personally happy with the outcome as I think under the Conservatives we are on the right track.

    This democracy lark can actually be quite exciting, can't it?
  • Cameron's in a very tough position now in that there's going to be no pointing at the Coalition if promises are broken or things go wrong - it's a Tory majority and all the power means all the responsibility - can't pass the buck along. Going to face some internal pressure too, probably some personal challenges and the SNP aren't going to sit back and relax now they've actually got numbers enough to do something proactive.
  • edited May 2015

    I voted Labour and am disappointed with the result but that's democracy and I hope all my fears are unfounded and Cameron proves me wrong.

    I am worried as an individual because working for the NHS I have truly seen that what has taken place over the last five years has been like the Titanic sailing towards the iceberg. Not sure what efficiencies are left to make. Where will the savings be made. I believe care will inevitably suffer.


    Those are my concerns as a worker and individual. I hope the Tory government show me something to make me less worried. I really do.

    Where to begin! Close down the administration blocks of most hospitals. Allow dept heads to run their respective departments including managing the respective budgets. Dispense with the reams of paper work that has to be completed by every nurse to the detriment of proper patient care. Allow caring and compassionate people to enter Nursing without having to study for a degree. Return to a system where nursing means actually nursing, turning patients regularly to prevent bed sores, regular bed baths etc, etc, and not just a stepping stone to some higher managerial position. Employ more front line staff from the cuts made in administration.
    End immediately the Agency staff scam where staff are paid 2-300% more for doing the same job but with no allegiance or affinity to the post and far less accountability and responsibility in many cases than the permanent lower paid staff. Not to mention the additional cut taken by the agency.
    NHS is an out of control inefficient beast where huge efficiency savings could and should be made.
    I walked away because of the pressure and stress caused by all the above. My dear friend and mentor Robert wasn't so lucky and took his own life in the on call room one night.


    I voted Labour and am disappointed with the result but that's democracy and I hope all my fears are unfounded and Cameron proves me wrong.

    I am worried as an individual because working for the NHS I have truly seen that what has taken place over the last five years has been like the Titanic sailing towards the iceberg. Not sure what efficiencies are left to make. Where will the savings be made. I believe care will inevitably suffer.


    Those are my concerns as a worker and individual. I hope the Tory government show me something to make me less worried. I really do.

    Where to begin! Close down the administration blocks of most hospitals. Allow dept heads to run their respective departments including managing the respective budgets. Dispense with the reams of paper work that has to be completed by every nurse to the detriment of proper patient care. Allow caring and compassionate people to enter Nursing without having to study for a degree. Return to a system where nursing means actually nursing, turning patients regularly to prevent bed sores, regular bed baths etc, etc, and not just a stepping stone to some higher managerial position. Employ more front line staff from the cuts made in administration.
    End immediately the Agency staff scam where staff are paid 2-300% more for doing the same job but with no allegiance or affinity to the post and far less accountability and responsibility in many cases than the permanent lower paid staff. Not to mention the additional cut taken by the agency.
    NHS is an out of control inefficient beast where huge efficiency savings could and should be made.
    I walked away because of the pressure and stress caused by all the above. My dear friend and mentor Robert wasn't so lucky and took his own life in the on call room one night.


    I'm sorry but "back room" staff have already been culled. People who work in scheduling and on reception desks, secretaries, are just as essential as front line clinical staff. I agree there might be room for a few more senior administration jobs to go but the NHS is huge and needs a properly functioning administration.

    I think your post is lacking in understanding of just how much you want to cut has already been cut.

    Stress which you site in your post is already on the rise and many staff both clinical and admin are looking at getting out.

    Trust me. Things are very grim right now.

    SHG, with respect. I think I have a very good understanding. My wife was working for Chelsea & Westminster Trust until a few months ago. She was constantly having to complete form after form. When she had a query, she couldn't get an answer on the phone so went to the administration office, only to find them all sitting around doing their nails!
    Time that she should have spent consulting with patients was wasted because results that had been requested weeks before, had not been filed in the notes. More time was spent on "admin" than actually treating patients. Much of this Admin work has no relevance in terms of patient care, but is a huge time wasting inconvenience for front line staff. It is needless paperwork that is created simply to justify a position.
    Same story with a good friend who works as an agency midwife, who wastes more time having to enter information on the computer, than caring for her patient. Not to mention the appalling quality of some of the imported midwives many of whom she doubts are actually qualified.
    You haven't addressed my point about Agency staff at all. I personally completed my training, left, and was re employed the very next week in my old post for double the money through an agency. This is a terrible waste that is just making medical agencies rich.

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  • colthe3rd said:



    It's going to be interesting how Cameron deals with the SNP. Personally i think it's the end of the Union with Scotland. Perhaps we should give them exactly what they want.

    But only a few months ago they voted to stay in the union. I'd imagine it's more that they just don't want a Tory or Labour government.
    Well if they didn't want a Tory government they have a funny way of going about things but i know what you mean.

    I think if you held a referendum tomorrow there would be an overwhelming swing in favour of independence now.
    Disagree, I think most know they need the union especially now given the price of oil.
  • I think it's time for labour to realise that the UK is not looking for a socialist style of leadership and it has five years to re build it's style and overcome the hard left leaning that finished in this country with the working class notions that some still harbour

    Agreed. We need a proper opposition party and Labour needs to rid itself of the idea that we are living in the 1940s and offering up gestures that appeal to an imaginary working class and the well heeled lefties with the monkey accents who never grew up.

    Labour is image, image and more image and no substance, why else would the Scots have moved to SNP.
  • edited May 2015
    I said to Callum last night that Cameron wasn't a winner like Thatcher and Major were and I was wrong.

    It will be interesting to watch by-elections over the next few years, and it does strike me as skewed in terms of party politics that UKIP and the Greens got so many votes but so few seats, but there will be no electoral reform. if the Greens and UKIP enter the fray as it is structured, they are obliged to play by the rules.
    The issue for an individual may be to focus on who is to become their actual local MP first, and the party second, or to vote ideologically whatever the 'tactical' effect may or may not be.

    There are now a lot of promises on the table, like the laws to hold economic decisions to account, and the referendum on Europe. The Scottish referendum has had unexpected consequences, maybe a Euro referendum in two years will have a similar impact.

    It so depresses me that housing is going to be a continued nightmare under the Conservatives, obviously the NHS will like as not suffer, and despite the apparent rise in jobs, there has been a parallel growth in food banks which says something about the country we live in.

    To an extent the Conservatives have followed the classic pattern of pain to start with, then a bit of a give away before an election. The play to the 'well I'm all right Jack' voter has worked, keep playing to that 35% or so and the Conservatives will win again, but we are becoming less 'one nation' by the year.

    I expect there to be some shocking examples of pain to come, because I don't believe we live in a country of scroungers (there are some, yes, but we're not riddled with it as the Daily Mail would have you believe) but the cuts for many will be justified by pointing accusing fingers at the feckless few. That is what the power base in divided Britain have voted for, so we will all have to get used to it.

    There are the first tranche of students now emerging from Universities saddled with a £45,000 debt, if big business and enterprise is really going to be the saviour of this country then each of those students ought to be able to find a proper job, they have little chance of finding a proper home though.

    On a side note it is so sad that Education policy is now anti creative arts subjects, and we may end up with a grimmer and greyer, and less vigilant society as a result.
  • I think it's time for labour to realise that the UK is not looking for a socialist style of leadership and it has five years to re build it's style and overcome the hard left leaning that finished in this country with the working class notions that some still harbour

    Agreed. We need a proper opposition party and Labour needs to rid itself of the idea that we are living in the 1940s and offering up gestures that appeal to an imaginary working class and the well heeled lefties with the monkey accents who never grew up.

    Labour is image, image and more image and no substance, why else would the Scots have moved to SNP.
    You mean a New Labour ?

    ;-)
  • Does anyone know what happens to the "Lost Deposits"?

    (No, sniggering at the back please!)
  • _MrDick said:

    Labour will have to wait until the next election / nailed on by-election to get its next proper leader who will be David Milliband. He's a half decent politician if I say so myself even though I'm a Tory boy.

    Far better than Ed.

    Why did Ed Milliband seriously think recruiting Russell Brand was a good idea?
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  • edited May 2015
    I don't think UKIP have been so badly damaged by first past the post given the huge list of seats where they finished second - many of these will become key marginals in 2020 unless the Tories follow through on UKIP-friendly policies.

    Meanwhile the SNP can mathematically not improve their position by more than three seats yet they can be safely ignored by the Tories given their majority and the fact they don't realistically compete for Scottish seats anyhow.

    Admittedly it doesn't bode well for the future of the union but I haven't read many arguments why we in the rest of Britain should care.

  • Labour is not finished and I certainly Hope that it never is,

    We need to realise as a society that the definition of classes within our country are no longer the same

    A working class person is not one who is just in manual labour or industrial work, a working class person in this country now is harder to define, they may well be a home owner still paying the mortgage or have managed to be free of that cost

    They are more likely doing more hours for less money they are trying to do all they can to better themselves and the future of their children and grandchildren,

    They resent wasted spend on those that don't need it and they accept the fact that they were as complicit in the financial collapse of the country by borrowing and spending when really they couldn't afford it but they thought at the time they could over come the issue

    What they didn't want last time was brown and his team and they didn't want Milliband and his now as they no longer represent them

    Labour finding the common ground with that demographic will give them a chance to win next time

    I have banged on about stability and time to allow one party the chance to live up to their word to deliver on their manifesto and also have time to put in place their own evidence to support it, should it fail I will judge them on that performance as will the vast majority that supported this decision and Gabe them the opportunity to do it
  • The thing is we did get an opportunity (of sorts) to change things only 4 years ago.

    The Great British public said: No 67.9% and Yes 32.1% with few spoiled papers.

    So, it seems, however unfair, we do want FPTP to stay.



  • In the end it was not even close, to win by 100 odd seats when the polls were predicting fairly level voting is a phenomonal phenomonal achievement.

    I think this says more about the inaccuracy of the polls than the magnitude of the achievement.
  • The sooner it changes, the better. There are so many huge failings of FPTP that need to be a thing of the past.
  • I voted Labour and am disappointed with the result but that's democracy and I hope all my fears are unfounded and Cameron proves me wrong.

    I am worried as an individual because working for the NHS I have truly seen that what has taken place over the last five years has been like the Titanic sailing towards the iceberg. Not sure what efficiencies are left to make. Where will the savings be made. I believe care will inevitably suffer.


    Those are my concerns as a worker and individual. I hope the Tory government show me something to make me less worried. I really do.

    Where to begin! Close down the administration blocks of most hospitals. Allow dept heads to run their respective departments including managing the respective budgets. Dispense with the reams of paper work that has to be completed by every nurse to the detriment of proper patient care. Allow caring and compassionate people to enter Nursing without having to study for a degree. Return to a system where nursing means actually nursing, turning patients regularly to prevent bed sores, regular bed baths etc, etc, and not just a stepping stone to some higher managerial position. Employ more front line staff from the cuts made in administration.
    End immediately the Agency staff scam where staff are paid 2-300% more for doing the same job but with no allegiance or affinity to the post and far less accountability and responsibility in many cases than the permanent lower paid staff. Not to mention the additional cut taken by the agency.
    NHS is an out of control inefficient beast where huge efficiency savings could and should be made.
    I walked away because of the pressure and stress caused by all the above. My dear friend and mentor Robert wasn't so lucky and took his own life in the on call room one night.


    I voted Labour and am disappointed with the result but that's democracy and I hope all my fears are unfounded and Cameron proves me wrong.

    I am worried as an individual because working for the NHS I have truly seen that what has taken place over the last five years has been like the Titanic sailing towards the iceberg. Not sure what efficiencies are left to make. Where will the savings be made. I believe care will inevitably suffer.


    Those are my concerns as a worker and individual. I hope the Tory government show me something to make me less worried. I really do.

    Where to begin! Close down the administration blocks of most hospitals. Allow dept heads to run their respective departments including managing the respective budgets. Dispense with the reams of paper work that has to be completed by every nurse to the detriment of proper patient care. Allow caring and compassionate people to enter Nursing without having to study for a degree. Return to a system where nursing means actually nursing, turning patients regularly to prevent bed sores, regular bed baths etc, etc, and not just a stepping stone to some higher managerial position. Employ more front line staff from the cuts made in administration.
    End immediately the Agency staff scam where staff are paid 2-300% more for doing the same job but with no allegiance or affinity to the post and far less accountability and responsibility in many cases than the permanent lower paid staff. Not to mention the additional cut taken by the agency.
    NHS is an out of control inefficient beast where huge efficiency savings could and should be made.
    I walked away because of the pressure and stress caused by all the above. My dear friend and mentor Robert wasn't so lucky and took his own life in the on call room one night.


    I'm sorry but "back room" staff have already been culled. People who work in scheduling and on reception desks, secretaries, are just as essential as front line clinical staff. I agree there might be room for a few more senior administration jobs to go but the NHS is huge and needs a properly functioning administration.

    I think your post is lacking in understanding of just how much you want to cut has already been cut.

    Stress which you site in your post is already on the rise and many staff both clinical and admin are looking at getting out.

    Trust me. Things are very grim right now.

    SHG, with respect. I think I have a very good understanding. My wife was working for Chelsea & Westminster Trust until a few months ago. She was constantly having to complete form after form. When she had a query, she couldn't get an answer on the phone so went to the administration office, only to find them all sitting around doing their nails!
    Time that she should have spent consulting with patients was wasted because results that had been requested weeks before, had not been filed in the notes. More time was spent on "admin" than actually treating patients. Much of this Admin work has no relevance in terms of patient care, but is a huge time wasting inconvenience for front line staff. It is needless paperwork that is created simply to justify a position.
    Same story with a good friend who works as an agency midwife, who wastes more time having to enter information on the computer, than caring for her patient. Not to mention the appalling quality of some of the imported midwives many of whom she doubts are actually qualified.
    You haven't addressed my point about Agency staff at all. I personally completed my training, left, and was re employed the very next week in my old post for double the money through an agency. This is a terrible waste that is just making medical agencies rich.

    Well of course I can only comment on the Trust where I work but I don't see anyone sitting around doing their nails.

    By way of an example we have a team of schedulers who appoint patients for treatment. There used to be five now two. The workload is up year on year. They are run ragged and one left last week for more money and a job that presumably won't stress her to tears. The other lady is distraught and looking to get out.

    Agency staff is as you say is a scandal but it's one made in central government. If you cannot recruit to post because there are not the staff out there then you have to use agency. Radiography (where I work) education has been underfunded for years. The result is that large numbers of staff although not agency where I work are from overseas. Not enough home grown to go around. It's slightly different in nursing but I think I'm right that most trusts are moving away from agency to "bank" staff where staff can do extra shifts at the same rate they are contracted ordinarily. That's if they are not so tired as to make it impossible.

    Most wards are so short of nurses that the ones on duty can't get break relief. That's a fact.

    I predict that any persuance of austerity in health and the system will collapse in some areas.



  • edited May 2015
    I know it's already been said in some shape or form but Russell Brand must be feeling like an absolute tit.

    He demanded the British electorate do one thing and the electorate stuck two fingers up and did exactly the opposite.

    Not so much a revolution than a revulsion.

    Harriet Harman has indicated she is going to step down once a new leader and deputy leader are elected, with the wording indicating she will no longer pursue a leadership role within the Labour.

    On behalf of everyone in the UK, thank goodness we are finally getting rid of this awful person.
  • E-cafc said:

    Change the record ffs. The country has just elected someone who sent vans out to prowl the streets of London telling illegal immigrants to go home. Was that racist in your opinion?

    FFS someone who actually cares for the country and by the sounds of it you hate him? Only good thing about democracy and voting is people le toucan have your say.
  • I'm not Labour but if I were I'd want Alan Johnson as leader.
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