General Election 2015 official thread
Comments
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Labour will have to wait until the next election / nailed on by-election to get its next proper leader who will be David Milliband. He's a half decent politician if I say so myself even though I'm a Tory boy.5
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The biggest problem Labour face now is that they have nobody who is credible enough to lead the party into the future. They need someone like Alan Johnson maybe. Harman, Umunna and Burnham will get them nowhere.0
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Can it do that though even if the professional politicans wanted to? Could the party even exist without the trade unions' money?nth london addick said:I think it's time for labour to realise that the UK is not looking for a socialist style of leadership and it has five years to re build it's style and overcome the hard left leaning that finished in this country with the working class notions that some still harbour
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Umunna is the runaway favourite at the moment... Followed by Burnham and Cooper.0
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Labour is finished. It lost it's relevance many years ago. The Greens have now become the party of the Left.nth london addick said:I think it's time for labour to realise that the UK is not looking for a socialist style of leadership and it has five years to re build it's style and overcome the hard left leaning that finished in this country with the working class notions that some still harbour
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Blairs more centrist labour appealed to a lot of public for thirteen years. Labour need to learn that the unions having such a strong hold puts off a large swathe of the population.
Ed beig perceived as being in thrall to the unions cannot have helped him.
Will never know but wonder how a David/ David election would have turned out.0 -
That was one of the biggest shocks ever. I am sad that a good man who would have made a great prime minister will never have that chance. I gave the British public too much credit for not falling for the SNP running Britain line. I won’t make the same mistake again. We now have a gaping wound between Scotland and basically England that will surely result in this great country being less great – people can rejoice about that. We can also rejoice about what will be an incredibly damaging 2 year run up to a Euro Election. I had faith in the public’s ability to see it benefits us, but that faith is now lost. I wish Cameron well – I really do. As far as I can see he is our best hope and when the euphoria is over, he may reflect on the greater challenges he faces than he ever did in the last parliament. When we lose Scotland and the benefits of being part of the European family, there won’t be any pieces to pick up – so Cameron better win his upcoming battles or this election will not remembered as a great victory.6
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Let's not go mad, Labour is still - by a country mile - the second largest party in this country.queensland_addick said:
Labour is finished. It lost it's relevance many years ago. The Greens have now become the party of the Left.nth london addick said:I think it's time for labour to realise that the UK is not looking for a socialist style of leadership and it has five years to re build it's style and overcome the hard left leaning that finished in this country with the working class notions that some still harbour
From the other thread it seems as though you harbour a, possibly justified, grudge against the Labour Party but statements like this and your bizarre earlier one about Sharia law and Miliband make you sound silly.5 -
I have little doubt that most people who go into politics are partly motivated by ego, a chance to parade their intellect, speaking and engagement skills, by the chance of fame and the excitement of high office. I also believe that the overwhelming majority, of any party, are driven by strong convictions and a desire to serve and promote the best interests of UK and the wider world, as they see it.
So, it is with a degree of sadness that I note some of the people who have fallen by the wayside in this election. Very many of course, but in particular from the LibDems, Ed Davey, Danny Alexander, Simon Hughes, Vince Cable, David Laws and Charles Kennedy are all long serving and very able MPs and/or governmental figures. Like him or not, Ed Balls is an extremely able economist and both he and Douglas Alexander will be sad losses to the Westminster scene. From Scottish Labour, I also feel for jim Murphy who was either very brave or very suicidal taking over Scottish Labour when the SNP tsunami was already racing in to engulf his party north of the border. Esther McVey, a rare tory on merseyside, has gone.
As for the leaders: Nick Clegg has fallen on his sword. It was most probably his decision to go into coalition government with the tories in 2010 which has primarily led to the LibDem decimation in the election. Yet, without that, we would have faced months of uncertainty and failure to address the urgent economic situation we were facing 5 years ago. The LibDems gained years experience of government responsibility which they would otherwise not have had. I respect and like Clegg and am sorry he has had to go, and I hope that history will judge his tenure more kindly than it must feel right now. As for Miliband, I thought his campaign was well fought, and I suspect that many others join me in having been surprised by his effectiveness. Bottom line though, I can't help feeling that Labour simply chose the least able brother and that, if David was in charge, we would be facing a different result today. Farage, although I despise his politics, led his party to a very commendable share of the vote and never shirked from facing people who approached him to take issue with his policies.
Where am I going with this? Just this - whatever your own political leanings - spare a thought today for those who had the guts and ability to get up there in the spotlight, and who now face a difficult period of readjustment. No matter what party they represented. Those with opposing political views are not malicious, or evil, or stupid. They are just people who see different ways to address making the UK and the world a better place.12 -
And yet Labour gained seats in England from the last electionqueensland_addick said:
Labour is finished. It lost it's relevance many years ago. The Greens have now become the party of the Left.nth london addick said:I think it's time for labour to realise that the UK is not looking for a socialist style of leadership and it has five years to re build it's style and overcome the hard left leaning that finished in this country with the working class notions that some still harbour
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blockquote class="Quote" rel="DamoNorthStand">See you later you racist twat. Hope the door smashes your back on the way out.
I was glad to see the back of George Galloway as well.
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queensland_addick said:
Where to begin! Close down the administration blocks of most hospitals. Allow dept heads to run their respective departments including managing the respective budgets. Dispense with the reams of paper work that has to be completed by every nurse to the detriment of proper patient care. Allow caring and compassionate people to enter Nursing without having to study for a degree. Return to a system where nursing means actually nursing, turning patients regularly to prevent bed sores, regular bed baths etc, etc, and not just a stepping stone to some higher managerial position. Employ more front line staff from the cuts made in administration.ShootersHillGuru said:I voted Labour and am disappointed with the result but that's democracy and I hope all my fears are unfounded and Cameron proves me wrong.
I am worried as an individual because working for the NHS I have truly seen that what has taken place over the last five years has been like the Titanic sailing towards the iceberg. Not sure what efficiencies are left to make. Where will the savings be made. I believe care will inevitably suffer.
Those are my concerns as a worker and individual. I hope the Tory government show me something to make me less worried. I really do.
End immediately the Agency staff scam where staff are paid 2-300% more for doing the same job but with no allegiance or affinity to the post and far less accountability and responsibility in many cases than the permanent lower paid staff. Not to mention the additional cut taken by the agency.
NHS is an out of control inefficient beast where huge efficiency savings could and should be made.
I walked away because of the pressure and stress caused by all the above. My dear friend and mentor Robert wasn't so lucky and took his own life in the on call room one night.
I'm sorry but "back room" staff have already been culled. People who work in scheduling and on reception desks, secretaries, are just as essential as front line clinical staff. I agree there might be room for a few more senior administration jobs to go but the NHS is huge and needs a properly functioning administration.queensland_addick said:
Where to begin! Close down the administration blocks of most hospitals. Allow dept heads to run their respective departments including managing the respective budgets. Dispense with the reams of paper work that has to be completed by every nurse to the detriment of proper patient care. Allow caring and compassionate people to enter Nursing without having to study for a degree. Return to a system where nursing means actually nursing, turning patients regularly to prevent bed sores, regular bed baths etc, etc, and not just a stepping stone to some higher managerial position. Employ more front line staff from the cuts made in administration.ShootersHillGuru said:I voted Labour and am disappointed with the result but that's democracy and I hope all my fears are unfounded and Cameron proves me wrong.
I am worried as an individual because working for the NHS I have truly seen that what has taken place over the last five years has been like the Titanic sailing towards the iceberg. Not sure what efficiencies are left to make. Where will the savings be made. I believe care will inevitably suffer.
Those are my concerns as a worker and individual. I hope the Tory government show me something to make me less worried. I really do.
End immediately the Agency staff scam where staff are paid 2-300% more for doing the same job but with no allegiance or affinity to the post and far less accountability and responsibility in many cases than the permanent lower paid staff. Not to mention the additional cut taken by the agency.
NHS is an out of control inefficient beast where huge efficiency savings could and should be made.
I walked away because of the pressure and stress caused by all the above. My dear friend and mentor Robert wasn't so lucky and took his own life in the on call room one night.
I think your post is lacking in understanding of just how much you want to cut has already been cut.
Stress which you site in your post is already on the rise and many staff both clinical and admin are looking at getting out.
Trust me. Things are very grim right now.
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I think you are looking a lot too deeply into the general public's considerations.MrOneLung said:Blairs more centrist labour appealed to a lot of public for thirteen years. Labour need to learn that the unions having such a strong hold puts off a large swathe of the population.
Ed beig perceived as being in thrall to the unions cannot have helped him.
Will never know but wonder how a David/ David election would have turned out.
For me it all boils down to charisma and populism (is that a word?).
Blair had that, Milliband never had it.
I may be doing a lot of the public a disservice but i think a lot more influence is had by looks, appearance, charisma and an appealing nature, in comparison to any considerations on how tied into trade unions / or intricacies of manifesto or policy.
I suspect that is why Cameron has also benefited.
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Also how you eat a bacon sandwich is very important.12
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This. The world has changed. Scrutiny at every level with social media and the like. Sad to say,butAFKABartram said:
I think you are looking a lot too deeply into the general public's considerations.MrOneLung said:Blairs more centrist labour appealed to a lot of public for thirteen years. Labour need to learn that the unions having such a strong hold puts off a large swathe of the population.
Ed beig perceived as being in thrall to the unions cannot have helped him.
Will never know but wonder how a David/ David election would have turned out.
For me it all boils down to charisma and populism (is that a word?).
Blair had that, Milliband never had it.
I may be doing a lot of the public a disservice but i think a lot more influence is had by looks, appearance, charisma and an appealing nature, in comparison to any considerations on how tied into trade unions / or intricacies of manifesto or policy.
I suspect that is why Cameron has also benefited.
If your leader is not polished you won't stand a cat in hells chance.
Labour need a very strong leader to turn this around. Fighting huge battles,not least in Scotland.
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I have to disagree with that AFKA
Cameron is hardly Mr Charisma but you are doing Brits a disservice to say we just vote for the bigger personality.
I, like millions of other English people voted for the only party that we can trust to run a government, not just because Milliband is clearly out of his depth and would have been an embarrasment.
In the end it was not even close, to win by 100 odd seats when the polls were predicting fairly level voting is a phenomonal phenomonal achievement.1 -
David is not even an MP. He would need to find a seat to contest. Win it and then contest leadership election. All doubtful and is the Miliband name now tarnished ?_MrDick said:Labour will have to wait until the next election / nailed on by-election to get its next proper leader who will be David Milliband. He's a half decent politician if I say so myself even though I'm a Tory boy.
Politics is now style over substance so I expect a leadership contested between those that look good in a suit and on camera and MOST importantly of all of course that they can show they know how to handle a bacon sandwich. Sad but true.
For what it's worth I can see Andy Burnham, Chukka Umunna and Tristram Hunt being ahead of David Miliband. All fit the "style"
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Spot on Bart, but I also think they failed to highlight the failings of the last government too, or convince enough they would be better.AFKABartram said:
I think you are looking a lot too deeply into the general public's considerations.MrOneLung said:Blairs more centrist labour appealed to a lot of public for thirteen years. Labour need to learn that the unions having such a strong hold puts off a large swathe of the population.
Ed beig perceived as being in thrall to the unions cannot have helped him.
Will never know but wonder how a David/ David election would have turned out.
For me it all boils down to charisma and populism (is that a word?).
Blair had that, Milliband never had it.
I may be doing a lot of the public a disservice but i think a lot more influence is had by looks, appearance, charisma and an appealing nature, in comparison to any considerations on how tied into trade unions / or intricacies of manifesto or policy.
I suspect that is why Cameron has also benefited.
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Since 2010 its not exactly been a health nirvana in Wales though.Bournemouth Addick said:The NHS in Wales is not 'shit' and the funding for social care has been protected there much more than in England so it's never been a case of apples with apples.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26975376
Health spending Wales FELL by 2% whilst in England it rose by 4.3%
Accident and emergency - seen within 4 hours Wales= 83%. Far short of their own target of 95% (England figure= 91%)
Cancer treatment before 62 days 88%, short of target of 95%
(England 84% - target= 85%)
Social care spending saw a drop of 0.8% in Wales. Far better than England but still hardly a ringing endorsement.0 -
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In the short term, Alan Johnson is the only viable moderate Labour politician to come in as leader .. this will allow time for someone younger and more 'dynamic' to get a foothold .. BUT .. I doubt that Johnson wants the hassle .. Miliband's antics in the last few days blew it for Labour .. finally, the so called polls were miles out .. as they were when Major beat Kinnock all those years ago .. good luck to David Cameron .. he'll need it0
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Fantastic to see that Theresa May has already put the Snoopers Charter back on the table....................................3
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I agree that the 'management of the economy' has played a part in this election, but i think there is also inference that those that voted differently are irresponsible in some way. If you listen to Damo for example he makes it sound like if Labour won the whole country will shut down tomorrow. We all have to appreciate that we are all coming at viewpoints with a completely different bat.Southendaddick said:
I, like millions of other English people voted for the only party that we can trust to run a government, not just because Milliband is clearly out of his depth and would have been an embarrasment.
if you don't mind me using you as an example, you are a high-earning city worker, probably with private healthcare, whose main priorities (i'm guessing) first and foremost are to protect what you earn, and to ensure the best eductation possible for your kids. Nothing wrong with that at all, but a reduction in public spending has probably had a very small impact on you personally.
Your situation is very different to (for example) the one that SHG portrays; overworked and underpaid in an over-strectched NHS, with a disabled daughter and wife who can't work as a result.
Everyone wants 'what's best', its just a case that everyone's definition of 'what's best' is different.
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Yep agree with that
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Callumcafc said:
Fantastic to see that Theresa May has already put the Snoopers Charter back on the table....................................
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Well done Conservatives.
It sticks in my throat to say it but i never expected an overall majority.
Milliband was never the right man although Labour supporters like me didn't wan't to admit it out loud.
Now is the time for Chuka Umunna to step up to the plate and take Labour in the right direction.
It's going to be interesting how Cameron deals with the SNP. Personally i think it's the end of the Union with Scotland. Perhaps we should give them exactly what they want.
I would just like to add that i think the right wing press have embarrassed themselves during this election even though they will say it was them that won it. Some of the personal headlines have been disgraceful and i for one will never put my hand in my pocket and buy a Sun or Daily Mail again in my lifetime.
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