Even if we sell him for 6 million plus add ons. It would be one of top five transfer fees of all time for an under 20 English centre back. Not to mention in the top twenty of all time if you factor in other nationalities. We have to remember he has less than a years experience in the championship. I think as a fan (including myself), we have a tendency to overinflate the value of our players in the market because of our fondness for the player.
£8m up front and all spent by RD on Charlton, not Standard etc, would be decent. Would love to see Joe progress with us but we need to progress as a club first. Spend more Kinsella than Hasselbaink, and £8m would build a promotion pushing team.
This! Whether it's £3,5 or 8m and whether Gudmundsson goes too our club will have progressed in just 18 months. For we will have travelled from bottom six losing £6m a year (since we left the FAPL) to a mid-table club close to break even.
This sends a variety of messages: we become attractive to young players as a route to the top; we will stay in business for I'm certain that some clubs will crash; and we can pay bigger contracts for top young talent to ensure we maintain progress. Better players cost and they assist the squad in pushing on... For instance retaining Bulot will be expensive.
To some fans it will most definitely look like a step back, but as long as every area of the squad is improved this summer then this looks like progress to me, just as the sales of Bowyer and later Danny Mills funded the club in the 90s.
I had heard that JG's dad was errrm active in 'advising' him, and shall we say is ambitious, in ironic contrast to Gus Poyet who advised Diego to stay. Gus was interested in Diego's best position in terms of his football development, maybe Mr Gomez is similarly well placed to offer advice like the aforementioned Uraguyan international and Premiership star. I am not surprised to hear now about paternal influence. I imagine, if true, that the pitiful 8 million is the maximum the deal could be worth with all the bells and whistles if it all goes to plan some years down the line. Not exactly sweating the asset in my view. However playing on a season at Charlton would actually be appropriate to Joe's footballing development, it would be a drag watching him and all the time knowing he is leaving, and for peanuts too.
Agree with your appraisal though he is still in the unproven category for the premiership. He is young and his full potential is unknown, how many Charlton young 'stars' have made it on the big stage to be 8 million pound players? Certainly not Shelvey, or Jenkinson. Parker's sale for 10M probably stopped us getting into Europe but was he ever worth that as a player in his supposed prime?
Both Shelvey and Jenkinson are £8m players. Both full internationals and regulars in the top flight. Parker was a top flight regular for over ten years, an England international for some time and played in the Champions league for Spurs.
£8m up front and all spent by RD on Charlton, not Standard etc, would be decent. Would love to see Joe progress with us but we need to progress as a club first. Spend more Kinsella than Hasselbaink, and £8m would build a promotion pushing team.
This! Whether it's £3,5 or 8m and whether Gudmundsson goes too our club will have progressed in just 18 months. For we will have travelled from bottom six losing £6m a year (since we left the FAPL) to a mid-table club close to break even.
This sends a variety of messages: we become attractive to young players as a route to the top; we will stay in business for I'm certain that some clubs will crash; and we can pay bigger contracts for top young talent to ensure we maintain progress. Better players cost and they assist the squad in pushing on... For instance retaining Bulot will be expensive.
To some fans it will most definitely look like a step back, but as long as every area of the squad is improved this summer then this looks like progress to me, just as the sales of Bowyer and later Danny Mills funded the club in the 90s.
We lost what, £8M last season? Yet if we sell for £3.5M we are close to break even? I wish I. Had your bank balance. I have been going for 30+ years and he is certainly top 3 best academy players we will have bought through in that time. PL TV money has sky rocketed since we last sold a decent young player, so should transfer fees being demanded.
Anyway, nothing is done or even publicly acknowledged yet so I will wait and see.
Ps, we were a mid-table club last season. With the money/debt/losses in the Championship I think the days of building slowly and with stability have gone. Teams will go from top half to bottom three and vice versa much quicker from now on I feel.
West Ham want to sign QPR striker Charlie Austin, as do Southampton and Newcastle United, as the relegated Premier League club look to raise £15m from his sale. (London Evening Standard) (From BBC Site)
£15 million for a proven striker/goal scorer who is in the full England squad .. by that benchmark, realistically, how much can we expect Gomez to go for now, as he is as yet still a callow and relatively untried teenager ?
West Ham want to sign QPR striker Charlie Austin, as do Southampton and Newcastle United, as the relegated Premier League club look to raise £15m from his sale. (London Evening Standard) (From BBC Site)
£15 million for a proven striker/goal scorer who is in the full England squad .. by that benchmark, how much can we expect Gomez to go for now, as he is as yet still a callow and relatively untried teenager ?
Answer - £15 mil. Works out at just £1mil a year playing in the top 6 of the premier league, champions league and England. Absolute bargain.
hold on everyone didn't that nice Mr Murray say that one of the advantages of having RD as owner is that we don't have to sell our young players but can hang on to them for a while and get a better price eventually, after all Gomez is on a long contract and doesn't need to go anywhere
We ought to remember the requirement for prem clubs to have a quota of English or British players. The cream of the crop has extra value because of this, and Joe Gomez is possibly our best ever youth product. As I have said, a minimum of ten million now, plus a share of profit and other add ons is not unrealistic because it will be a decade before we get this kind of opportunity again.
I wouldn't like to see gomez leave but if he does I think we will get a very very good amount for him. What worries Me is if gomez does leave, who will be the next young up and coming star to arrive in the first team?
If Gomez goes to a top 5 club and plays then great. He would walk into the England team and that would be great to see. I would take £8m as a starting price though with add ons
We ought to remember the requirement for prem clubs to have a quota of English or British players. The cream of the crop has extra value because of this, and Joe Gomez is possibly our best ever youth product. As I have said, a minimum of ten million now, plus a share of profit and other add ons is not unrealistic because it will be a decade before we get this kind of opportunity again.
A minimum of ten million now, a share of profits and other add ons. You say is not unrealistic, but it is totally unrealistic. In fact it is in the realms of believing in fairies and Father Christmas. The most we could hope for is a total package of between 6 to 8 million. That is after add ons for International appearances Club Appearances, sell on clause, Loan back to us etc.
I pray he's not just another player who'll get lost in a "big club" academy. Could be the most successful CAFC academy product ever if his development is handled in the right way.
Once / if he leaves ( and we've maximised the cash for him ) then I couldn't care how he gets on. Same for the vast majority of players who move on.
Joe is without doubt a great prospect. The key word here is prospect. No guarantees. No certainty. The Premier League is littered with players who just like Joe show all the promise in the world. Get the big move and don't progress. All the youth and under 20 caps in the world mean absolutely nothing. Zip. Nada.
I do believe that RD will sell JG for the best possible fee. It would make a mockery of all the academy investment if he didn't. He won't be going for £3 million. A fee of £5 million would with a loan back and add ons be good business.
It would mean we break even this year and allow RD to invest in the team which otherwise might not have taken place to the same extent.
IMHO all this talk of £10 - 15 million is supporters fantasy. At the end of the day he is worth what people are willing to pay. I hope I'm off beam and the fee is huge but if it isn't I for one don't believe that it's because we haven't played hard ball.
We ought to remember the requirement for prem clubs to have a quota of English or British players. The cream of the crop has extra value because of this, and Joe Gomez is possibly our best ever youth product. As I have said, a minimum of ten million now, plus a share of profit and other add ons is not unrealistic because it will be a decade before we get this kind of opportunity again.
A minimum of ten million now, a share of profits and other add ons. You say is not unrealistic, but it is totally unrealistic. In fact it is in the realms of believing in fairies and Father Christmas. The most we could hope for is a total package of between 6 to 8 million. That is after add ons for International appearances Club Appearances, sell on clause, Loan back to us etc.
I agree but what Seth is doing is setting the club up to fail. If and when we don't get the numbers he's plucked out of the air then he can say "we didn't get best value, blah, blah, blah".
None of us know what is being offered, if anything, or how high the bidders might go.
If Gomez is going, then why not just sit back and wait for a bidding war between Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City, if they are indeed all interested? Who knows what we might get if that happened? Personally, if we can get £8 million and a years loan back, I'd be happy to take it at this stage. Anything less and I'd seriously think about holding on to him for another year and see where we are then. He could be worth ten or four (or nothing) in 12 months time, but that is the time to cash in. Your gamble Roland!
Luke Shaw £27m. Calum Chambers £15m. Neither has Joe's class, or physique. Sale at the figures quoted will be madness and I cannot see that Liverpool would be top bidder or that a deal would be done without a more scruitinised bidding war.
Luke Shaw £27m. Calum Chambers £15m. Neither has Joe's class, or physique. Sale at the figures quoted will be madness and I cannot see that Liverpool would be top bidder or that a deal would be done without a more scruitinised bidding war.
Chambers was reported as rising to £16m and he'd played 22 games in the premier league
Shaw had played 60 times for Southampton, many in the premier league.
Gomez has played 21 games, none of them in the premier league.
Gomez is a great prospect, they were proven premier league players. Joe MIGHT go on to be better than both but we don't know that and neither does any buyer.
The fee anyway will be undisclosed so if and when he goes, we will be none the wiser.
You think that will stop this lot telling you that their mates, half brothers, sisters dog walker met a bloke in the park who works in the West Stand kitchens and he overheard Katrien saying that we got £24m, a complete refurb of the ladies loos in the East Stand and a years worth of pulled pork in return for Gomez.
£8m up front and all spent by RD on Charlton, not Standard etc, would be decent. Would love to see Joe progress with us but we need to progress as a club first. Spend more Kinsella than Hasselbaink, and £8m would build a promotion pushing team.
This! Whether it's £3,5 or 8m and whether Gudmundsson goes too our club will have progressed in just 18 months. For we will have travelled from bottom six losing £6m a year (since we left the FAPL) to a mid-table club close to break even.
This sends a variety of messages: we become attractive to young players as a route to the top; we will stay in business for I'm certain that some clubs will crash; and we can pay bigger contracts for top young talent to ensure we maintain progress. Better players cost and they assist the squad in pushing on... For instance retaining Bulot will be expensive.
To some fans it will most definitely look like a step back, but as long as every area of the squad is improved this summer then this looks like progress to me, just as the sales of Bowyer and later Danny Mills funded the club in the 90s.
Progression happens on the pitch. If we lose Gomez and Gudmundsson and then don't replace them we better players we will have regressed. It's Charlton, we're clearly not getting £8m. We'll get about £3m and then the rest will be drip fed to us over years if and when Gomez goes on to become the player he could. Better hope one of Chelsea, City, Utd or Arsenal have a crap season if one of the payments is based on Champions League football. To progress we need to spend, and until the transfer window closes and the first few games have finished we won't know if we have or not
All this talk of loan back is way off in my opinion. If Gomez did go why would Liverpool or Arsenal or whoever want to loan him back to a club like us when he could be getting more experience in another club who have better players than ours? Which of our current defenders is he going to learn from? By all accounts Ben Haim didn't even bother to give him the slightest piece of advice when Joe was playing alongside him.
All this talk of loan back is way off in my opinion. If Gomez did go why would Liverpool or Arsenal or whoever want to loan him back to a club like us when he could be getting more experience in another club who have better players than ours? Which of our current defenders is he going to learn from? By all accounts Ben Haim didn't even bother to give him the slightest piece of advice when Joe was playing alongside him.
Exactly. If he gets loaned out it'll be to a team like Derby or Boro. Once he's gone he's gone.
I had heard that JG's dad was errrm active in 'advising' him, and shall we say is ambitious, in ironic contrast to Gus Poyet who advised Diego to stay. Gus was interested in Diego's best position in terms of his football development, maybe Mr Gomez is similarly well placed to offer advice like the aforementioned Uraguyan international and Premiership star. I am not surprised to hear now about paternal influence. I imagine, if true, that the pitiful 8 million is the maximum the deal could be worth with all the bells and whistles if it all goes to plan some years down the line. Not exactly sweating the asset in my view. However playing on a season at Charlton would actually be appropriate to Joe's footballing development, it would be a drag watching him and all the time knowing he is leaving, and for peanuts too.
Gomez is one day younger than my youngest son, if it was my lad I would advise him to go where the biggest money was, if there is a bidding war with The Bin Dippers, Arse and Manure etc then it is about the club getting the best deal for CAFC, but when it comes to personal teams, go for the money. Gomez is one bad injury away from ending his career. I understood why Spotty Parker went to Chelski, it made him financially secure for life, I wasn't happy about it, but then again I'm not Parker.
We ought to remember the requirement for prem clubs to have a quota of English or British players. The cream of the crop has extra value because of this, and Joe Gomez is possibly our best ever youth product. As I have said, a minimum of ten million now, plus a share of profit and other add ons is not unrealistic because it will be a decade before we get this kind of opportunity again.
A minimum of ten million now, a share of profits and other add ons. You say is not unrealistic, but it is totally unrealistic. In fact it is in the realms of believing in fairies and Father Christmas. The most we could hope for is a total package of between 6 to 8 million. That is after add ons for International appearances Club Appearances, sell on clause, Loan back to us etc.
I agree but what Seth is doing is setting the club up to fail. If and when we don't get the numbers he's plucked out of the air then he can say "we didn't get best value, blah, blah, blah".
None of us know what is being offered, if anything, or how high the bidders might go.
I disagree with your interpretation of my motives.
This is an article about the money Liverpool splashed around last year.
Joe has a relatively lengthy contract, on that basis we don't have to sell now, in a year he will be worth more (and isn't it depressing that we speculate on whether he will progress, or get injured on a 'cash in now' basis). I may be in an unrealistic place with regard to money, that is a difference of opinion, not about wanting to set the club up to fail. I know you are intrigued by the whole Lepoint situation, maybe his signing is Roland et al setting the club up to succeed, but the overall point is surely getting the best deal possible. I don't believe the Lepoint deal is the best deal possible, and I fear the Gomez deal will also be a poor one. However we don't know for sure, it isn't on the OS, but I genuinely believe that in the current climate a club like Liverpool, or Chelsea, or Arsenal or Manchester City can, and ought to, pay more. Or we keep the player, which in my view is the best option anyway.
Comments
Whether it's £3,5 or 8m and whether Gudmundsson goes too our club will have progressed in just 18 months. For we will have travelled from bottom six losing £6m a year (since we left the FAPL) to a mid-table club close to break even.
This sends a variety of messages: we become attractive to young players as a route to the top; we will stay in business for I'm certain that some clubs will crash; and we can pay bigger contracts for top young talent to ensure we maintain progress. Better players cost and they assist the squad in pushing on... For instance retaining Bulot will be expensive.
To some fans it will most definitely look like a step back, but as long as every area of the squad is improved this summer then this looks like progress to me, just as the sales of Bowyer and later Danny Mills funded the club in the 90s.
Anyway, nothing is done or even publicly acknowledged yet so I will wait and see.
Ps, we were a mid-table club last season. With the money/debt/losses in the Championship I think the days of building slowly and with stability have gone. Teams will go from top half to bottom three and vice versa much quicker from now on I feel.
£15 million for a proven striker/goal scorer who is in the full England squad .. by that benchmark, realistically, how much can we expect Gomez to go for now, as he is as yet still a callow and relatively untried teenager ?
didn't that nice Mr Murray say that one of the advantages of having RD as owner is that we don't have to sell our young players but can hang on to them for a while and get a better price eventually, after all Gomez is on a long contract and doesn't need to go anywhere
As I have said, a minimum of ten million now, plus a share of profit and other add ons is not unrealistic because it will be a decade before we get this kind of opportunity again.
I would take £8m as a starting price though with add ons
A minimum of ten million now, a share of profits and other add ons. You say is not unrealistic, but it is totally unrealistic. In fact it is in the realms of believing in fairies and Father Christmas. The most we could hope for is a total package of between 6 to 8 million. That is after add ons for International appearances Club Appearances, sell on clause, Loan back to us etc.
I do believe that RD will sell JG for the best possible fee. It would make a mockery of all the academy investment if he didn't. He won't be going for £3 million. A fee of £5 million would with a loan back and add ons be good business.
It would mean we break even this year and allow RD to invest in the team which otherwise might not have taken place to the same extent.
IMHO all this talk of £10 - 15 million is supporters fantasy. At the end of the day he is worth what people are willing to pay. I hope I'm off beam and the fee is huge but if it isn't I for one don't believe that it's because we haven't played hard ball.
None of us know what is being offered, if anything, or how high the bidders might go.
Shaw had played 60 times for Southampton, many in the premier league.
Gomez has played 21 games, none of them in the premier league.
Gomez is a great prospect, they were proven premier league players. Joe MIGHT go on to be better than both but we don't know that and neither does any buyer.
The only thing we are ever going to get is a loan back. I simply can't see in any reality where if we got £5m it would be reinvested into the squad.
www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3124306/Arsenal-Liverpool-leading-race-Charlton-s-7m-rated-Joe-Gomez.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11674898/.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/picturegalleries/11284607/Liverpools-woeful-summer-signings-ranked-and-reviewed.html?frame=3133543
This is an article about the money Liverpool splashed around last year.
Joe has a relatively lengthy contract, on that basis we don't have to sell now, in a year he will be worth more (and isn't it depressing that we speculate on whether he will progress, or get injured on a 'cash in now' basis).
I may be in an unrealistic place with regard to money, that is a difference of opinion, not about wanting to set the club up to fail.
I know you are intrigued by the whole Lepoint situation, maybe his signing is Roland et al setting the club up to succeed, but the overall point is surely getting the best deal possible. I don't believe the Lepoint deal is the best deal possible, and I fear the Gomez deal will also be a poor one. However we don't know for sure, it isn't on the OS, but I genuinely believe that in the current climate a club like Liverpool, or Chelsea, or Arsenal or Manchester City can, and ought to, pay more.
Or we keep the player, which in my view is the best option anyway.